Keeping your level low, and weapon selection

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Just a couple questions, things that strike me as strange

My priestess just died a horrible death at the hands of the Quest
Nemesis. I felt like I could handle him (I had about 180 HP and 599
pwr with which to cast extra healing as often as I wanted; -17 AC if I
wore a +3 ring of protection). I still think I could have handled him.
But he just kept summoning more and more enemies...dragons, vampire
lords, a master mind flayer, it never stopped. I could cast charm
monster at a 100% success rate, but the big immune ones just started to
pile up. I tried escaping upstairs, but he just came with me and
filled the level ABOVE me with enemies, until I had to dig back down to
escape.

Anyway, I'm fairly sure that fight wouldn't have been bad if I had been
level 16 or so, but I was at level 30 due to several incubi, wraiths,
and polymorphing into a new self with level drain resistance. I wasn't
gaining many HP; after a point, the level gains just seemed to be
useless. Meanwhile, I was still having trouble fighting giant zombies,
while the levels filled up with higher and higher level monsters.

What's the consensus on this? All the advice I've heard is "level
gains are good," with the minor exception of the protection racket.
This is my first good priest; other classes do seem to benefit more
from the level gains, so maybe it depends on that. Is there a point in
your games where you would pass up three wraith corpses if you couldn't
tin them for later? Or is the "polymorphing to a new self" + level
drain resistance a surefire recipe for level gains whenever I want
them, so no harm in passing up those wraiths? Are there certain
experience levels you consider "too high" for certain parts of the
game?

--------

The other problem I had was an inability to find a decent weapon as a
chaotic elven priest(ess). I got Stormbringer and Fire Brand by
sacrificing, and I maxed both of their skills out at "basic".
Meanwhile my blessed rusty corroded +2 mace was little better.

I knew the spell "create monster," so I could have sacrificed for more
artifacts, but what would I do with them? It just seems there's no
decent artifact weapon a chaotic Priest can use. Stormbringer was good
except against demons, because of the level drain, but at basic it just
felt too weak otherwise, even with +5 enchantment. Greyswandir might
be better for demons, if we overlook that I'd have to wish for it
(likely multiple attempts; at that stage in the game I'd have a 50/50
chance each time), would still be restricted to "unskilled," AND I'd
get blasted by its power. Or maybe I should just stick with a unicorn
horn at "skilled," the next best choice I could find.

Is there something I'm missing? Granted, most of my best characters
have been samurai, valkyries, hard-hitting melee characters; maybe my
feeling of weakness was just my not being used to playing a priest.
But I couldn't shake the feeling that at this stage in the game, as a
level 30 character with a -17 AC, and a full ascension kit sans a bag
of holding (still unburdened), every fight was harder than it ought to
be. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot.
39 answers Last reply
More about keeping level weapon selection
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    rmcneive@andrew.cmu.edu wrote:

    > Anyway, I'm fairly sure that fight wouldn't have been bad if I had been
    > level 16 or so, but I was at level 30 due to several incubi, wraiths,
    > and polymorphing into a new self with level drain resistance. I wasn't
    > gaining many HP; after a point, the level gains just seemed to be
    > useless. Meanwhile, I was still having trouble fighting giant zombies,
    > while the levels filled up with higher and higher level monsters.
    >
    > What's the consensus on this? All the advice I've heard is "level
    > gains are good," with the minor exception of the protection racket.

    I haven't seen this advice here much. Over my last 11 ascensions or so the
    average level of my characters is 18. There are limited reasons to
    increasing your experience level: class specific abilities (this probably
    won't be an issue above level 17), skill slots, leveling up for the quest
    (14 is good enough), and hit point gains (but there are other usually
    better ways of getting hit points). Oh yeah, also spell damage is greater
    at higher level.

    > This is my first good priest; other classes do seem to benefit more
    > from the level gains, so maybe it depends on that. Is there a point in
    > your games where you would pass up three wraith corpses if you couldn't
    > tin them for later?

    If I'm not looking for the extra skill slots I usually quit eating wraiths
    somewhere around level 15-18.

    I almost always do the quest at exactly level 14.

    > The other problem I had was an inability to find a decent weapon as a
    > chaotic elven priest(ess). I got Stormbringer and Fire Brand by
    > sacrificing, and I maxed both of their skills out at "basic".
    > Meanwhile my blessed rusty corroded +2 mace was little better.

    I've ascended two priests. One used his original mace, enchanted to +7,
    right up to the finish. The other finished with Frost Brand and Magicbane.

    A unicorn horn might be fun to try sometime; priests can get to skilled
    with these. They're two handed, though, so the usual caution is required.

    I think it's a good thing that priests are only mediocre in melee.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    wrote on 11 May 2005 17:19:26 -0700:
    > My priestess just died a horrible death at the hands of the Quest
    > Nemesis. I felt like I could handle him (I had about 180 HP and 599
    > pwr with which to cast extra healing as often as I wanted; -17 AC if I
    > wore a +3 ring of protection). I still think I could have handled him.
    > But he just kept summoning more and more enemies...dragons, vampire
    > lords, a master mind flayer, it never stopped. I could cast charm
    > monster at a 100% success rate, but the big immune ones just started to
    > pile up. I tried escaping upstairs, but he just came with me and
    > filled the level ABOVE me with enemies, until I had to dig back down to
    > escape.

    I would have worn a ring of conflict. That tends to reduce the need for
    healing. More AC would have been nice, but not essential.

    Then I would have spent some of those 599 power points casting 16d6
    damage magic missiles. I think you would run out of monsters before
    running out of mana...


    --
    "Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
    am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
    commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    <rmcneive@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in message
    news:1115857166.931284.200570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > Just a couple questions, things that strike me as strange
    >
    > My priestess just died a horrible death at the hands of the Quest
    > Nemesis. I felt like I could handle him (I had about 180 HP and 599
    > pwr with which to cast extra healing as often as I wanted; -17 AC if I
    > wore a +3 ring of protection). I still think I could have handled him.
    > But he just kept summoning more and more enemies...dragons, vampire
    > lords, a master mind flayer, it never stopped. I could cast charm
    > monster at a 100% success rate, but the big immune ones just started to
    > pile up. I tried escaping upstairs, but he just came with me and
    > filled the level ABOVE me with enemies, until I had to dig back down to
    > escape.
    >
    > Anyway, I'm fairly sure that fight wouldn't have been bad if I had been
    > level 16 or so, but I was at level 30 due to several incubi, wraiths,
    > and polymorphing into a new self with level drain resistance. I wasn't
    > gaining many HP; after a point, the level gains just seemed to be
    > useless. Meanwhile, I was still having trouble fighting giant zombies,
    > while the levels filled up with higher and higher level monsters.
    >
    > What's the consensus on this? All the advice I've heard is "level
    > gains are good," with the minor exception of the protection racket.
    > This is my first good priest; other classes do seem to benefit more
    > from the level gains, so maybe it depends on that. Is there a point in
    > your games where you would pass up three wraith corpses if you couldn't
    > tin them for later? Or is the "polymorphing to a new self" + level
    > drain resistance a surefire recipe for level gains whenever I want
    > them, so no harm in passing up those wraiths? Are there certain
    > experience levels you consider "too high" for certain parts of the
    > game?
    <Snip the rest>

    Ok, the 'Level gains are ok' advice is bad in most cases, (A wizard may have
    need for those extra levels to boost spell damage) Alchemy and creative
    scroll use will gave you much better returns for HP or PW than level gains.
    Altar camping can also provide HP's and Protection (max your naked AC by
    donating gold first if possible, there's no limit to divine protection other
    than having it revoked)

    As for weapon selection, Hammer is one of the classes that priests can
    become expert in, so Mojo is the best meele artifact for a P. Morning stars
    and flails work well for non artifact weapons (better base damage by a point
    or so) A chaotic might have to wish for Mojo, but it's worth it. Just use
    something else (rubber chicken?) on Orcus if you really want his wand.

    Hope this helps
    Danny
    Tuck-P Ascended Geno/poly/polyselfless
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    David Damerell wrote:
    <snip>
    >
    > Even a +0 Fire Brand at basic is enormously better than a +2 mace at
    > expert except against resistant targets. Same goes for Stormbringer.
    Don't
    > obsess over weapon skills; before they came in, Basic was all we got.

    Er, that's not exactly true. +0 firebrand@ basic is pretty even to +2
    -1 damaged mace at expert. Consider Fire Brand +0 at basic against
    non-large target w/o fire resistance:

    (D8)*2 + 0 skill bonus + other damage bonus that doesn't double except
    skill bonus

    = 2-16 + other damage bonus

    +2 damaged mace at expert:

    D6+1 + 2 from enchantment + 2 skill bonus + other bonus

    = 5-10 + other damage bonus

    The difference is only 1.5 point per hit. It's pretty negligible
    considering the fire resistant monsters.

    However, Stormbringer probably is greatly better because of other perks
    Stormy has.


    >
    > You should have used one of these good weapons. Also, when the
    summoning
    > storm started, you should have used one of your means of emergency
    retreat
    > (if you weren't carrying some, there's an error) to go and look for a
    > means to deal with it; either conflict or attack spells (as a level
    30
    > with 599 mana, you can cast a lot of attack spells) will thin out a
    storm
    > in no time.

    As a priest at lvl 30, I'd forget about the weapons, and go with magic
    missle (and conflict if he's got it). Only use the Stormy if I really
    have to (Silver dragons and such with reflection comes to mind).

    -K
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    David Damerell wrote:
    > Quoting Kremti <kremti@gmail.com>:
    > >David Damerell wrote:
    > ><snip>
    > >>Even a +0 Fire Brand at basic is enormously better than a +2 mace
    at
    > >>expert except against resistant targets. Same goes for
    Stormbringer. Don't
    > >>obsess over weapon skills; before they came in, Basic was all we
    got.
    > >Er, that's not exactly true. +0 firebrand@ basic is pretty even to
    +2
    > >-1 damaged mace at expert. Consider Fire Brand +0 at basic against
    > >non-large target w/o fire resistance:
    >
    > Many of the named targets are large, but yes, I withdraw the
    "enormously".

    Yes, and that makes different of somewhere around 5 points instead of
    1.5, and then, many of the named targets are fire resistant as well.

    >
    > ... of course, "enchanting the Fire Brand" might be another approach
    to
    > the situation. :-)

    Which will definitely swing the advantage towards Fire Brand. I just
    don't think he'll be satisfied with the melee fighting power of the
    priest in any case. At lvl 30 w/ the humongo amount of power, using
    Magic Missle liberally in the tight sport is probably the way to go
    backed up with whichever the melee weapon he feels like using ATM.

    -K
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Daniel Morris <puterdan@optonline.net> wrote:
    >
    > <rmcneive@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in message
    > news:1115857166.931284.200570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    >> Just a couple questions, things that strike me as strange
    >>

    >> What's the consensus on this? All the advice I've heard is "level
    >> gains are good," with the minor exception of the protection racket.
    >> This is my first good priest; other classes do seem to benefit more
    >> from the level gains, so maybe it depends on that. Is there a point in
    >> your games where you would pass up three wraith corpses if you couldn't
    >> tin them for later? Or is the "polymorphing to a new self" + level
    >> drain resistance a surefire recipe for level gains whenever I want
    >> them, so no harm in passing up those wraiths? Are there certain
    >> experience levels you consider "too high" for certain parts of the
    >> game?
    > <Snip the rest>
    >
    > Ok, the 'Level gains are ok' advice is bad in most cases, (A wizard may have
    > need for those extra levels to boost spell damage) Alchemy and creative
    > scroll use will gave you much better returns for HP or PW than level gains.
    > Altar camping can also provide HP's and Protection (max your naked AC by
    > donating gold first if possible, there's no limit to divine protection other
    > than having it revoked)

    Nitpick: -128
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Quoting <rmcneive@andrew.cmu.edu>:
    >My priestess just died a horrible death at the hands of the Quest
    >Nemesis.
    [To a summoning storm]
    >The other problem I had was an inability to find a decent weapon as a
    >chaotic elven priest(ess). I got Stormbringer and Fire Brand by
    >sacrificing, and I maxed both of their skills out at "basic".
    >Meanwhile my blessed rusty corroded +2 mace was little better.

    Even a +0 Fire Brand at basic is enormously better than a +2 mace at
    expert except against resistant targets. Same goes for Stormbringer. Don't
    obsess over weapon skills; before they came in, Basic was all we got.

    You should have used one of these good weapons. Also, when the summoning
    storm started, you should have used one of your means of emergency retreat
    (if you weren't carrying some, there's an error) to go and look for a
    means to deal with it; either conflict or attack spells (as a level 30
    with 599 mana, you can cast a lot of attack spells) will thin out a storm
    in no time.
    --
    David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
    Today is Second Thursday, May.
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    rmcneive@andrew.cmu.edu writes:

    > What's the consensus on this? All the advice I've heard is "level
    > gains are good," with the minor exception of the protection racket.

    It seems to me that most experienced players in this newsgroup do NOT
    think so. As you have seen, higher explevel means more dangerous enemies.
    True, you gain better score killing harder monsters, but they are also
    more likely to kill you or generally causing trouble.

    > from the level gains, so maybe it depends on that. Is there a point in
    > your games where you would pass up three wraith corpses if you couldn't
    > tin them for later? Or is the "polymorphing to a new self" + level

    I generally do NOT eat wraith corpses. In the early game the explevels can
    be gained fast enough by just killing monsters, and by the time level
    gaining seems to take wraiths or potions of gain level, you normally don't
    need more explevels unless you need more skill slots. The exception is
    when you already feel ready to do the Quest and have all the equipment and
    intrinsics you think you need, and have other attributes good enough, but
    not enough exp.
    BTW, you CAN'T tin wraith corpses.

    --
    Jukka Lahtinen
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Quoting Kremti <kremti@gmail.com>:
    >David Damerell wrote:
    ><snip>
    >>Even a +0 Fire Brand at basic is enormously better than a +2 mace at
    >>expert except against resistant targets. Same goes for Stormbringer. Don't
    >>obsess over weapon skills; before they came in, Basic was all we got.
    >Er, that's not exactly true. +0 firebrand@ basic is pretty even to +2
    >-1 damaged mace at expert. Consider Fire Brand +0 at basic against
    >non-large target w/o fire resistance:

    Many of the named targets are large, but yes, I withdraw the "enormously".

    .... of course, "enchanting the Fire Brand" might be another approach to
    the situation. :-)
    --
    David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
    Today is Second Thursday, May.
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    <rmcneive@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:

    > My priestess just died a horrible death at the hands of the Quest
    > Nemesis. I felt like I could handle him (I had about 180 HP and 599
    > pwr with which to cast extra healing as often as I wanted; -17 AC if I
    > wore a +3 ring of protection). I still think I could have handled him.
    > But he just kept summoning more and more enemies...dragons, vampire
    > lords, a master mind flayer, it never stopped.
    >
    > Anyway, I'm fairly sure that fight wouldn't have been bad if I had been
    > level 16 or so, but I was at level 30 due to several incubi, wraiths,
    > and polymorphing into a new self with level drain resistance. I wasn't
    > gaining many HP; after a point, the level gains just seemed to be
    > useless. Meanwhile, I was still having trouble fighting giant zombies,
    > while the levels filled up with higher and higher level monsters.
    >
    > [...]
    >
    > The other problem I had was an inability to find a decent weapon as a
    > chaotic elven priest(ess). I got Stormbringer and Fire Brand by
    > sacrificing, and I maxed both of their skills out at "basic".
    > Meanwhile my blessed rusty corroded +2 mace was little better.

    Chaotic priestesses are my favorite characters: I just finished
    ascending one at experience level 30 two days ago. Here are a few
    observations, some of which reinforce what others have noted in this
    thread:

    * Compared to many other classes, priestesses are weak melee fighters.
    What kills my low-level priestesses more than anything else: fighting
    two or more monsters at once, especially when the priestesses aren't
    fast. You should adopt a play style to avoid such combat situations, by
    running away more than you are used to or (perhaps) more than you think
    you should. Play priestesses more defensively than offensively.

    * Your character's AC was far too weak for level 30, and too weak (in
    my opinion) for the Quest regardless of character level. My priestess
    crested at AC -44 before she ever hit XL 30. She was probably ca. AC
    -30 before the Quest. This is part of the defensive mindset: go for AC
    stronger than you would for a more offensively potent character. If my
    priestess starts with "healing" then I'll typically have her forgo
    armor that reduces the spell's chance, so that she can repair HP. But
    if she doesn't start with "healing," then I'll have her load up on
    metal armor and helmets to get the AC stronger. (In the latter case
    I'll also have her store the robe and wear some other cloak, mostly to
    avoid robe destruction via polymorph.)

    * One symptom of being non-offensive characters: Priestesses can't
    advance weapon skill in any bladed weapon, excepting the one-level
    advancement for weapons granted through offering. This is a *serious*
    handicap for low-level priestesses; but in a higher-level character
    with sufficient AC, I find this to be a minor problem. My priestesses
    usually just keep the starting mace, enchant it up, and advance to
    "expert" skill. Even then they whack off at most 20ish points from an
    enemy. But as long as the priestesses have strong AC, they can
    withstand blows with little effect. Net result: they still kill as
    surely as a barbarian would -- they just take a few extra moves to do
    so.

    * Priestesses can't advance their spell skill in what you'd normally
    think of as attack or defense spells. Fortunately, with higher level
    and higher personal stats the characters can learn the core spells you
    really need. By that point, the lack of a strong melee weapon is far
    less critical; indeed, a level 30 priestess shouldn't be relying on
    just her in-hand weapon to save her from or in melee.

    * If my priestesses do sacrifice, the only artifact I really care about
    is Stormbringer. And I want that mostly because it feels so thoroughly
    chaotic and just fits my image of the character type. It's also helpful
    when fighting trolls, since they then reanimate with lower HP. (In this
    most recent ascension, the priestess did not sacrifice at all --
    sacrificing is not a big part of my game play.)

    * I've found one chaotic artifact worth wishing (not sacrificing) for:
    the Master Key of Thievery. It (effectively) increases your character's
    AC by halving the physical damage she takes. And once the priestess
    reaches level 12, she can teleport away from bad situations like the
    one that killed yours; with the Master Key, she can control that
    teleport -- a quite handy defensive tactic. The Key also gives warning,
    another handy (but not indispensible) defensive device.

    * In the early game, you want your priestess to know "healing," then
    "extra healing" for HP recovery, especially as her magic power
    increases so much more quickly than does HP. The spells are a way to
    convert power points to hit points. But as the character levels up she
    recovers HP more quickly. When my priestess reached level 20 or so, she
    stopped casting "extra healing" because her HP recovered so well. So
    that is an advantage to higher level: faster regeneration.

    * Once your character has sufficient ability, have her learn "magic
    missile." (I've spent Castle wishes on this spellbook.) I don't know if
    this is literally true, but it seems this way to me: as your character
    gains level, her magic-missile zaps do more damage. My level 30
    priestess was vaporizing medium-strength monsters in one zap, and
    krakens (e.g.) in two zaps; and she was firing with 100% success rate.
    If you can line monsters up near a wall, you can take out multiple
    monsters with one zap. This is the one offensive/attack spell a
    priestess should have.

    * And finally, get her a ring of conflict. Conflict has the beauty of
    being simultaneously an offensive and defensive tactic: the monsters
    are attacked and killed (offensive) while leaving you mostly alone
    (defensive). When you are wearing conflict, every monster becomes a
    temporary quasi-pet fighting all the other quasi-pets on your behalf.
    ("I fight for Zev!")

    I've played this game not quite a year yet, and thus consider myself
    far from expert. But these are things that I've discovered while
    playing mostly priestesses. I hope at least some of them can help you.

    --
    Bobby Schmidt
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Bobby Schmidt wrote:

    > * One symptom of being non-offensive characters: Priestesses can't
    > advance weapon skill in any bladed weapon, excepting the one-level
    > advancement for weapons granted through offering.

    I'd call most polearms "bladed weapons", not that this helps much.

    They can also become skilled in unicorn horns, which are actually a pretty
    good, although two-handed, weapon. This is probably also moot for
    low-level priest(esse)s

    > * Once your character has sufficient ability, have her learn "magic
    > missile." (I've spent Castle wishes on this spellbook.)

    I did this with my recent Wizard, right before someone pointed out that a
    magic marker would have been a better wish (not that it was a big deal in
    this game; I had wishes coming out my ears). You can write a spellbook of
    MM with 30 marker charges or less.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:

    > Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    >
    > > * One symptom of being non-offensive characters: Priestesses can't
    > > advance weapon skill in any bladed weapon, excepting the one-level
    > > advancement for weapons granted through offering.
    >
    > I'd call most polearms "bladed weapons", not that this helps much.
    >
    > They can also become skilled in unicorn horns, which are actually a pretty
    > good, although two-handed, weapon. This is probably also moot for
    > low-level priest(esse)s

    Hmm, yeah, I guess you are technically right about bladed weapons. I
    was thinking of the various sword and mini-sword types, the sorts of
    things one usually gets through offering.

    As for the unicorn horn: A low-level Priest(ess) has to survive and
    become strong enough to kill a unicorn first. Unicorns are fast and
    strike multiple times per round. And they are difficult to line up for
    even a remote hit, unless your character is fast, or corners them in a
    confined no-teleport zone such as Sokoban.

    The usual caveat around two-handed weapons -- the fear of them becoming
    cursed -- is somewhat less severe for Priest(ess)es, as "remove curse"
    is their special spell.

    >
    > > * Once your character has sufficient ability, have her learn "magic
    > > missile." (I've spent Castle wishes on this spellbook.)
    >
    > I did this with my recent Wizard, right before someone pointed out that a
    > magic marker would have been a better wish (not that it was a big deal in
    > this game; I had wishes coming out my ears). You can write a spellbook of
    > MM with 30 marker charges or less.

    The magic marker works for Wizards, who can credibly try writing spells
    they don't yet know. Priest(ess)es have almost zero chance of
    successfully doing so.

    --
    Bobby Schmidt
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    > Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>* One symptom of being non-offensive characters: Priestesses can't
    >>>advance weapon skill in any bladed weapon, excepting the one-level
    >>>advancement for weapons granted through offering.
    >>
    >>I'd call most polearms "bladed weapons", not that this helps much.
    >>
    >>They can also become skilled in unicorn horns, which are actually a pretty
    >>good, although two-handed, weapon. This is probably also moot for
    >>low-level priest(esse)s
    >
    >
    > Hmm, yeah, I guess you are technically right about bladed weapons. I
    > was thinking of the various sword and mini-sword types, the sorts of
    > things one usually gets through offering.
    >
    > As for the unicorn horn: A low-level Priest(ess) has to survive and
    > become strong enough to kill a unicorn first. Unicorns are fast and
    > strike multiple times per round. And they are difficult to line up for
    > even a remote hit, unless your character is fast, or corners them in a
    > confined no-teleport zone such as Sokoban.
    >
    > The usual caveat around two-handed weapons -- the fear of them becoming
    > cursed -- is somewhat less severe for Priest(ess)es, as "remove curse"
    > is their special spell.
    >

    Famous last words: "I think I'll just wield this two-handed weapon so I
    can cast remove curse on it."

    If you've been lurking in this newsgroup, you'll remember a certain post
    a while ago. Someone got their unicorn horn cursed on his ascension run.
    He wielded it, since the remove curse spell only works on weapons and
    armor unless it's at Expert. Then he tried casting remove curse.

    "You cannot cast spells if both your hands are welded to a weapon."

    And you know the survivability of someone with Unskilled in whatever
    skill class unihorns are, wielding a cursed +0 unihorn, and having no
    other unihorn or useful item in inventory, unable to open his bag of
    holding because his hands are welded to a unihorn, despite the bag
    containing many items that could've saved him, on a level in Gehenomm
    that's no-teleport, during a summoning storm with Double-Trouble Rodneys
    and your friendly neighborhood horde from Summon Nasties, during an
    ascension run.

    Think about it.

    Prayer? Gehennom. Remove curse spell? Hands welded. Scroll of remove
    curse? In BoH. Holy water? In BoH. BoH? Hands welded. Wands? Hands
    welded. Unihorn? Cursed and welded to hands. Nearest upstairs? Blocked
    by "Summon Nasties" horde. Kill horde? Hands welded to bad weapon,
    spells unusable. Teleport? In BoH. Level teleport? In BoH. Any possible
    item to be used at last minute? In BoH.

    Hey, look, a disenchanter. Now your unihorn is -1. Hey, look, a
    mindflayer. There goes your remove curse spell, as well as making your
    trip up ten times longer since you have to remap. Oh, and you forgot
    which scroll was remove curse. Hey, look, a Demilich. Now your BoH is
    cursed. Good luck getting the holy water, if you can. Hey, look, a green
    slime. Potion of acid? BoH. Scroll of fire? BoH. Prayer? Gehennom.

    DYWYPI?

    --
    ____ (__)
    / \ (oo) -Shadow
    |Moo. > \/
    \____/
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Bobby Schmidt wrote:

    > The usual caveat around two-handed weapons -- the fear of them becoming
    > cursed -- is somewhat less severe for Priest(ess)es, as "remove curse"
    > is their special spell.

    Which they can't cast when wielding a cursed unihorn :(

    >>> * Once your character has sufficient ability, have her learn "magic
    >>> missile." (I've spent Castle wishes on this spellbook.)
    >>
    >> I did this with my recent Wizard, right before someone pointed out that
    >> a magic marker would have been a better wish (not that it was a big deal
    >> in this game; I had wishes coming out my ears). You can write a
    >> spellbook of MM with 30 marker charges or less.
    >
    > The magic marker works for Wizards, who can credibly try writing spells
    > they don't yet know. Priest(ess)es have almost zero chance of
    > successfully doing so.

    Right, good point. The chance will actually be significantly better than
    zero if they have maxed luck (approximately 32%), but this is still pretty
    risky.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Richard Bos wrote:

    > Shadow <shadow@shadowedlogic.uni.cc> wrote:
    >> Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    >>> Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:
    >>>> Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> * One symptom of being non-offensive characters: Priestesses can't
    >>>>> advance weapon skill in any bladed weapon, excepting the one-level
    >>>>> advancement for weapons granted through offering.
    >>>>
    >>>> I'd call most polearms "bladed weapons", not that this helps much.
    >>>
    >>> Hmm, yeah, I guess you are technically right about bladed weapons. I
    >>> was thinking of the various sword and mini-sword types, the sorts of
    >>> things one usually gets through offering.
    >
    > Mind you, Priests _should_ be restricted in any bladed weapon, and this
    > should include pole-arms. The restriction of legend is against drawing
    > blood, not against using swords specifically.

    What legend is this, out of curiosity? I know it's a D&D restriction, but
    I never realized it had other sources. (And the fact that it's a D&D
    restriction should in no way dictate the NetHack behaviour).

    What freakin' religion says it's okay to bash in someone's skull with a
    ridged hunk of metal on a stick, but blanches at a little cut? :P

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Shadow <shadow@shadowedlogic.uni.cc> wrote:

    > Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    > > Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:
    > >
    > >>Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>* One symptom of being non-offensive characters: Priestesses can't
    > >>>advance weapon skill in any bladed weapon, excepting the one-level
    > >>>advancement for weapons granted through offering.
    > >>
    > >>I'd call most polearms "bladed weapons", not that this helps much.
    > >
    > > Hmm, yeah, I guess you are technically right about bladed weapons. I
    > > was thinking of the various sword and mini-sword types, the sorts of
    > > things one usually gets through offering.

    Mind you, Priests _should_ be restricted in any bladed weapon, and this
    should include pole-arms. The restriction of legend is against drawing
    blood, not against using swords specifically. Strictly speaking, they
    should not be allowed to use spear-like weapons or pointed missile
    weapons, either, and should probably be stronger than Basic in slings.
    And anyone who has read the Canterbury Tales knows that they should also
    be allowed to ride.

    > > The usual caveat around two-handed weapons -- the fear of them becoming
    > > cursed -- is somewhat less severe for Priest(ess)es, as "remove curse"
    > > is their special spell.
    >
    > Famous last words: "I think I'll just wield this two-handed weapon so I
    > can cast remove curse on it."
    >
    > If you've been lurking in this newsgroup, you'll remember a certain post
    > a while ago. Someone got their unicorn horn cursed on his ascension run.
    > He wielded it, since the remove curse spell only works on weapons and
    > armor unless it's at Expert. Then he tried casting remove curse.

    Stupid question, perhaps (and admittely irrelevant to your main point,
    with which I agree at least somewhat), but what was that Priest doing in
    Gehennom _without_ Clerical spell (including RC) at Expert?

    Richard
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Richard Bos wrote:
    > Shadow <shadow@shadowedlogic.uni.cc> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    >>
    >>>Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>* One symptom of being non-offensive characters: Priestesses can't
    >>>>>advance weapon skill in any bladed weapon, excepting the one-level
    >>>>>advancement for weapons granted through offering.
    >>>>
    >>>>I'd call most polearms "bladed weapons", not that this helps much.
    >>>
    >>>Hmm, yeah, I guess you are technically right about bladed weapons. I
    >>>was thinking of the various sword and mini-sword types, the sorts of
    >>>things one usually gets through offering.
    >
    >
    > Mind you, Priests _should_ be restricted in any bladed weapon, and this
    > should include pole-arms. The restriction of legend is against drawing
    > blood, not against using swords specifically. Strictly speaking, they
    > should not be allowed to use spear-like weapons or pointed missile
    > weapons, either, and should probably be stronger than Basic in slings.
    > And anyone who has read the Canterbury Tales knows that they should also
    > be allowed to ride.
    >
    >
    >>>The usual caveat around two-handed weapons -- the fear of them becoming
    >>>cursed -- is somewhat less severe for Priest(ess)es, as "remove curse"
    >>>is their special spell.
    >>
    >>Famous last words: "I think I'll just wield this two-handed weapon so I
    >>can cast remove curse on it."
    >>
    >>If you've been lurking in this newsgroup, you'll remember a certain post
    >>a while ago. Someone got their unicorn horn cursed on his ascension run.
    >>He wielded it, since the remove curse spell only works on weapons and
    >>armor unless it's at Expert. Then he tried casting remove curse.
    >
    >
    > Stupid question, perhaps (and admittely irrelevant to your main point,
    > with which I agree at least somewhat), but what was that Priest doing in
    > Gehennom _without_ Clerical spell (including RC) at Expert?
    >
    > Richard

    You'll notice that I only said "someone," not neccesarily a Priest. If
    his Clerical was either Basic or Unskilled as I remember, he probably
    wasn't.

    You probably know this, but even if he wasn't a Priest, a Priest getting
    a wielded unihorn cursed is going to have the exact same problem.

    --
    ____ (__)
    / \ (oo) -Shadow
    |Moo. > \/
    \____/
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 17 May 2005 21:23:49 GMT, rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl (Richard Bos)
    wrote:

    >Shadow <shadow@shadowedlogic.uni.cc> wrote:
    >
    >> Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    >> > Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >>Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >>>* One symptom of being non-offensive characters: Priestesses can't
    >> >>>advance weapon skill in any bladed weapon, excepting the one-level
    >> >>>advancement for weapons granted through offering.
    >> >>
    >> >>I'd call most polearms "bladed weapons", not that this helps much.
    >> >
    >> > Hmm, yeah, I guess you are technically right about bladed weapons. I
    >> > was thinking of the various sword and mini-sword types, the sorts of
    >> > things one usually gets through offering.
    >
    >Mind you, Priests _should_ be restricted in any bladed weapon, and this
    >should include pole-arms. The restriction of legend is against drawing
    >blood, not against using swords specifically.

    The restriction isn't really valid in all cases. For example, some
    religions involve human or blood sacrifice and have no problem with any
    drawn blood.

    While it can apply to generic priests in a generic D&D/Nethack setting, it
    should not be a global restriction. (In fact, one of the Gazetters for D&D
    classic lifted the restriction for Nordic priests.) It's best to leave
    it as is - Priests get no training for bladed weapons.

    >
    >>
    >> Famous last words: "I think I'll just wield this two-handed weapon so I
    >> can cast remove curse on it."
    >>
    >> If you've been lurking in this newsgroup, you'll remember a certain post
    >> a while ago. Someone got their unicorn horn cursed on his ascension run.
    >> He wielded it, since the remove curse spell only works on weapons and
    >> armor unless it's at Expert. Then he tried casting remove curse.
    >
    >Stupid question, perhaps (and admittely irrelevant to your main point,
    >with which I agree at least somewhat), but what was that Priest doing in
    >Gehennom _without_ Clerical spell (including RC) at Expert?

    Lack of use. :)
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Benjamin Lewis wrote:

    > Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    >
    > > The usual caveat around two-handed weapons -- the fear of them becoming
    > > cursed -- is somewhat less severe for Priest(ess)es, as "remove curse"
    > > is their special spell.
    >
    > Which they can't cast when wielding a cursed unihorn :(

    I was thinking of casting "remove curse" at high enough skill level
    that the entire inventory is uncursed. Sorry about not making that
    assumption explicit. (I long ago acquired the habit of not wielding
    two-handed weapons unless I could safely uncurse them.)

    > > The magic marker works for Wizards, who can credibly try writing spells
    > > they don't yet know. Priest(ess)es have almost zero chance of
    > > successfully doing so.
    >
    > Right, good point. The chance will actually be significantly better than
    > zero if they have maxed luck (approximately 32%), but this is still pretty
    > risky.

    Huh, somewhere I forgot about the luck factor. The things we
    (re)learn...

    --
    Bobby Schmidt
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    > Benjamin Lewis wrote:
    >> Bobby Schmidt wrote:

    >>> The usual caveat around two-handed weapons -- the fear of them
    >>> becoming cursed -- is somewhat less severe for Priest(ess)es, as
    >>> "remove curse" is their special spell.

    >> Which they can't cast when wielding a cursed unihorn :(

    > I was thinking of casting "remove curse" at high enough skill level
    > that the entire inventory is uncursed. Sorry about not making that
    > assumption explicit.

    It makes no difference whatsoever at what level you can cast "remove
    curse". That's only the *effect* when you cast it.

    What does make a difference is that you won't be able to cast it (or any
    other spell) *at all* if you're wielding a cursed twohander, no matter
    if you can cast it at expert or not.

    To uncurse a wielded twohander, you really need a scroll of remove curse
    or some holy water (in your main inventory, since you won't be able to
    open a bag either).

    --
    Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

    The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
    can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:

    > To uncurse a wielded twohander, you really need a scroll of remove curse
    > or some holy water (in your main inventory, since you won't be able to
    > open a bag either).

    Marvin showed us a clever alternate way in the last tournament, IIRC.

    Best,
    Jakob
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Jakob Creutzig wrote:
    > "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:

    >> To uncurse a wielded twohander, you really need a scroll of remove
    >> curse or some holy water (in your main inventory, since you won't be
    >> able to open a bag either).

    > Marvin showed us a clever alternate way in the last tournament, IIRC.

    *Marvin* got stuck with a cursed twohander?

    --
    Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

    The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
    can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:
    >Jakob Creutzig wrote:
    >> Marvin showed us a clever alternate way in the last tournament, IIRC.
    >
    >*Marvin* got stuck with a cursed twohander?

    Isn't he on record as saying that he thinks that most of his losses in
    his 70% success tournament run were due to operator error?
    --
    Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
    My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
    http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.html
    bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce bounce bounce bounce.
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    The Prophet Richard Bos known to the wise as rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl, opened the Book of Words, and read unto the people:
    >Mind you, Priests _should_ be restricted in any bladed weapon, and this
    >should include pole-arms. The restriction of legend is against drawing
    >blood, not against using swords specifically.

    I could be wrong, but I think this "legend" is wholly the invention of TSR or one of their forbears.

    It's possible some restriction along the lines exists in _some_
    preisthood, somewhere, but in most ancient religions, priests were not
    only permitted to wield bladed weapons and draw blood, they were in
    fact required to be proficient in doing so. Animal sacrifice (which
    was an aspect of a great many religions, somewhere along the line) was
    generally a formalized affair with highly ritualized presentations. It
    wasn't just a matter of setting a corpse on an altar and setting it on
    fire; the organs, bones, and fat were frequently separated (the
    detailed Judaic ritual, for instance, is explained at length in
    Leviticus 1--4). It required not merely use of, but in fact skill
    with, a knife.

    The notion that this is an outgrowth of a prohibition on drawing blood
    is especially odd, since being bludgeoned to death tends be at
    least as messy and brutal as being stabbed.

    --
    D. Jacob (Jake) Wildstrom, Math monkey and freelance thinker

    "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems."
    -Alfred Renyi

    The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily endorsed by the
    University of California or math department thereof.
  25. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:

    > Jakob Creutzig wrote:
    > > "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:
    >
    > >> To uncurse a wielded twohander, you really need a scroll of remove
    > >> curse or some holy water (in your main inventory, since you won't be
    > >> able to open a bag either).
    >
    > > Marvin showed us a clever alternate way in the last tournament, IIRC.
    >
    > *Marvin* got stuck with a cursed twohander?

    Yep, for some reason his Barbarian was using Cleaver and got
    some bad luck with cursing monsters. With no aligned altars
    in Gehennom nor some holy water or ?oRC at hand (dunno why,
    maybe he played an illiterate atheist or just didn't have them
    in main inv), he just sat on some traps until he got uncursing.
    Didn't know about that possible effect before.

    Best,
    Jakob
  26. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    dwildstr@euclid.ucsd.edu (Jake Wildstrom) wrote:
    >The Prophet Richard Bos known to the wise as rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl, opened the Book of Words, and read unto the people:
    >>Mind you, Priests _should_ be restricted in any bladed weapon, and this
    >>should include pole-arms. The restriction of legend is against drawing
    >>blood, not against using swords specifically.
    >
    >I could be wrong, but I think this "legend" is wholly the invention of TSR or one of their forbears.

    Partially influenced by a couple of bits and pieces from mediaeval
    Christianity. Spilling of blood *on holy ground* was prohibited (for
    everyone; it was an act of desecration), and IIRC, when Bishop Odo of
    Normandy came to England with his kinsman William (of whom you may have
    heard...) he had *personally* sworn not to draw a sword in battle, and
    so used a mace instead. Other clergy with martial skills did not
    necessarily swear such an oath.
    --
    Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
    My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
    http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.html
    bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce bounce bounce bounce.
  27. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On 5/18/05 5:46 AM, Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    > Benjamin Lewis wrote:
    >
    >>Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    >>
    >>>The usual caveat around two-handed weapons -- the fear of them becoming
    >>>cursed -- is somewhat less severe for Priest(ess)es, as "remove curse"
    >>>is their special spell.
    >>
    >>Which they can't cast when wielding a cursed unihorn :(
    >
    > I was thinking of casting "remove curse" at high enough skill level
    > that the entire inventory is uncursed. Sorry about not making that
    > assumption explicit. (I long ago acquired the habit of not wielding
    > two-handed weapons unless I could safely uncurse them.)

    I'm not sure you're getting this: You can't cast *any* spell, no matter
    what your skill level or whether it's your special spell, if you are
    wielding a cursed two-handed weapon. Therefore, you can't use a spell to
    uncurse anything in your inventory, including what you're wielding, if
    you're wielding a cursed two-handed weapon.

    --
    Kevin Wayne

    "Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare
    their souls." --Steve Hindalong
  28. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Jake Wildstrom wrote:

    > The notion that this is an outgrowth of a prohibition on drawing blood
    > is especially odd, since being bludgeoned to death tends be at
    > least as messy and brutal as being stabbed.

    Since religion used to be belligorous, messy and brutal, this might be
    exactly the reason why priests should use bludgeoning weapons...

    :-)

    --
    Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

    The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
    can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
  29. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    In <d6flk4$i7t$1@news1.ucsd.edu> dwildstr@euclid.ucsd.edu (Jake Wildstrom) writes:

    >The Prophet Richard Bos known to the wise as rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl, opened the Book of Words, and read unto the people:
    >>Mind you, Priests _should_ be restricted in any bladed weapon, and this
    >>should include pole-arms. The restriction of legend is against drawing
    >>blood, not against using swords specifically.

    >I could be wrong, but I think this "legend" is wholly the invention of TSR or one of their forbears.

    You're wrong. It may have no historical *real* basis, but I've definitely
    read pre-1600 heroic fiction that included this concept. My vague memory
    suggests Archbishop Turpin in The Song of Roland had that restriction, but
    I could be misremembering.

    Gary Gygax actually had sources for pretty much everthing in D&D. Some of
    them got confused and distorted over time, but there's almost always a
    significant nugget of historical basis there. The one that suprised me
    most was when I discovered extensive documentation on Thieves' Guilds and
    Thieves' Cant...

    Alexx


    Opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employers.
    alexx@carolingiaSPAMBL@CK.org http://www.panix.com/~alexx
    silverwing, v.: (1) to argue more than one side of an issue at the same time
    (2) to vehemently and tediously agree (3) generally, to debate inconclusively
    for the hell of it.
  30. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Jakob Creutzig wrote:
    <snip snip Marvin with a cursed two handed weapon>
    > Yep, for some reason his Barbarian was using Cleaver and got
    > some bad luck with cursing monsters. With no aligned altars
    > in Gehennom nor some holy water or ?oRC at hand (dunno why,
    > maybe he played an illiterate atheist or just didn't have them
    > in main inv), he just sat on some traps until he got uncursing.
    > Didn't know about that possible effect before.
    >
    > Best,
    > Jakob

    *De-lurk*

    I imagine he could have also dipped it in a fountain until it uncursed.
    Although that would be a bit of a problem if it hadn't been fixed yet.

    Cheers,
    Zeitgeist
  31. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

    > To uncurse a wielded twohander, you really need a scroll of remove curse
    > or some holy water (in your main inventory, since you won't be able to
    > open a bag either).

    Ack! You are right. Well of course you are right, as you know this game
    6.02e23 times better than I do :^)

    So to the original poster: ignore my sidebar implication that you can
    uncurse your wielded unicorn horn through a spell, and listen to
    Boudewijn on this. And I will stop using two-handed weapons that aren't
    blessed.

    --
    Bobby Schmidt
  32. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Alexander Kay <alexx@panix.com> wrote:

    > In <d6flk4$i7t$1@news1.ucsd.edu> dwildstr@euclid.ucsd.edu (Jake Wildstrom) writes:
    >
    > >The Prophet Richard Bos known to the wise as rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl, opened the Book of Words, and read unto the people:
    > >>Mind you, Priests _should_ be restricted in any bladed weapon, and this
    > >>should include pole-arms. The restriction of legend is against drawing
    > >>blood, not against using swords specifically.
    >
    > >I could be wrong, but I think this "legend" is wholly the invention of TSR or one of their forbears.
    >
    > You're wrong. It may have no historical *real* basis, but I've definitely
    > read pre-1600 heroic fiction that included this concept. My vague memory
    > suggests Archbishop Turpin in The Song of Roland had that restriction, but
    > I could be misremembering.

    Neither. He did not have that restriction, but my personal theory is
    that he was one of the important origins of the legend even so. You see,
    in at least the French version of the Chanson de Roland (I recommend
    Dorothy Sayers' translation, btw), the name of Turpin's sword(!) is
    Almace. Take "Al" as the Arabic particle - large parts of the story play
    in Arab- occupied Spain, after all - and you have an archbishop wielding
    "The Mace"... After that, it only takes the usual muddle-headed
    half-translation at which writers of legends excel.
    IIRC, the tradition that the warrior-priests of legend (the restriction
    never did apply to the priests of their own days, TTBOMK, certainly not
    to people like the Borgia popes) were not allowed to draw blood started
    in the very late Mediaeval period, perhaps in the early Renaissance.

    Richard
  33. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Bobby Schmidt wrote:

    > Ack! You are right. Well of course you are right, as you know this
    > game 6.02e23 times better than I do :^)

    Would that be Avogadro's number?

    > So to the original poster: ignore my sidebar implication that you can
    > uncurse your wielded unicorn horn through a spell, and listen to
    > Boudewijn on this. And I will stop using two-handed weapons that
    > aren't blessed.

    Some question then: when a lich (or other high level caster) curses your
    equipment, does it go from blessed to uncursed, or to cursed directly?

    If the latter, only wielding blessed twohanders wouldn't make any
    difference...

    --
    Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

    The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
    can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
  34. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    tomfhaines@gmail.com <tomfhaines@gmail.com> wrote:

    : Jakob Creutzig wrote:
    : <snip snip Marvin with a cursed two handed weapon>
    :> Yep, for some reason his Barbarian was using Cleaver and got
    :> some bad luck with cursing monsters. With no aligned altars
    :> in Gehennom nor some holy water or ?oRC at hand (dunno why,
    :> maybe he played an illiterate atheist or just didn't have them
    :> in main inv), he just sat on some traps until he got uncursing.
    :> Didn't know about that possible effect before.
    : *De-lurk*
    : I imagine he could have also dipped it in a fountain until it uncursed.
    : Although that would be a bit of a problem if it hadn't been fixed yet.

    Despite the lack of fountains in the inner sanctum I would have dipped
    a nonrusting item for a nymph instead.

    : Cheers,
    : Zeitgeist
    Marvin
  35. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
    >
    > Some question then: when a lich (or other high level caster) curses your
    > equipment, does it go from blessed to uncursed, or to cursed directly?

    Blessed -> uncursed -> cursed.

    --
    John Campbell
    jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
  36. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

    > Bobby Schmidt wrote:
    >
    > > Ack! You are right. Well of course you are right, as you know this
    > > game 6.02e23 times better than I do :^)
    >
    > Would that be Avogadro's number?

    His oral surgeon's, actually.

    Speaking of: just what is the molarity of a potion? Is the water pure,
    like distilled, or Evian, or from a fountain, or dripping from the
    ceiling? And the acid -- what kind is it? It seems stronger than, say,
    vinegar, but not permanently disfiguring in tiny amounts like HF.

    And how is it that the potions all have the same mass? Do we assume
    they have the same volume? Density?

    > Some question then: when a lich (or other high level caster) curses your
    > equipment, does it go from blessed to uncursed, or to cursed directly?

    I've never experienced blessed to cursed directly, which proves
    approximately nothing. Also, I usually deposit the lich phylum down the
    genocidal memory hole before they have a chance to curse anything.

    --
    Bobby Schmidt
  37. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Bobby Schmidt <BobbySchmidt@mac.com.invalid> wrote:

    > Speaking of: just what is the molarity of a potion? Is the water pure,
    > like distilled, or Evian, or from a fountain, or dripping from the
    > ceiling?

    Since it's cheap, it's definitely not Evian. You have noticed what that
    spells backwards, have you ;-) ? Nor does it seem to be bad for you or
    taste bad, so it's probably not just running about the dungeon, either.
    It's probably from all those fountains and sinks.

    > And the acid -- what kind is it? It seems stronger than, say,
    > vinegar,

    I dunno - quaffing an entire bottle of vinegar straight isn't very good
    for you. Perhaps it's acetic acid - undiluted vinegar.

    > And how is it that the potions all have the same mass? Do we assume
    > they have the same volume? Density?

    Well, if we assume that they're all mostly water with a small amount of
    active ingredients, they're probably all quite close to water in
    density. AFAIK most medicines are.

    Richard
  38. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    In article <QAzge.1377$Bg4.676@fe10.lga>,
    Daniel Morris <puterdan@optonline.net> wrote:
    >donating gold first if possible, there's no limit to divine protection other
    >than having it revoked)

    Spoily comment.

    <rot13>
    Gurer npghnyyl vf n yvzvg, naq V'ir yrnearq ubj gb ernpu vg, nygubhtu
    vg erdhverf n terng qrny bs cngvrapr, naq nyfb, n eryvnoyr zrgubq bs
    qrpernfvat bar'f yhpx.
    Bar fbyhgvba vf gb erirefr trab havpbeaf. Lbh pna bayl fhzzba fb znal
    alzcuf naq cbylcvyr fb znal ybbxvat tynffrf. Vs lbhe nygne pnzc vf
    pybfr rabhtu gb fbxbona, lbh pna frghc n yhpx erqhpgvba pragre gurer.
    Lbhe punenpgre pna uvg gur yvzvg bs anxrq nezbe pynff, tvira rabhtu
    cngvrapr naq rabhtu fnpevsvprf, jvgubhg gur yhpx gevpxf, ohg jr'q or
    gnyxvat zvyyvbaf bs gheaf bs r.t., chqqvat snezvat. Terng ybnqf bs
    cebgrpgvba pna or unq sebz zhaqnar fnpevsvprf jura ohaqyrq jvgu yhpx
    znantrzrag.
    </rot13>
  39. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    In article <yrjhdh8iuov.fsf@despammed.com>,
    Jukka Lahtinen <jukkal@despammed.com> wrote:

    >BTW, you CAN'T tin wraith corpses.

    A potion of gain level is much more valuable as a cbgvba bs shyy urnyvat, nsgre nypurzl.
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