Hi from a noob

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Greetings,

I have just recently started playing this game, for the first time
since playing HACK as a kid off of a diskette that my father brought
home from work.

I started playing Nethack a little over a month ago, and have killed
hundreds of PCs already. I have read some spoilers, and my best
character is currently a human valkyrie.

I think I may have just lost the orb. I zapped a wand of fire at Lord
Surdur, and he fell through the hole and disappeared. I havnt been on
a quest before, and I am afraid I just messed it up.

Did I lose the orb? Why couldnt I kill him, he kept teleporting
around, and I used a stethescope on him, and I didnt seem to be
damaging him much with my blessed Mjollinar warhammer.

Any advice?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I find the best way to deal with the individual high level monsters is
to use a !oParalysis on them, then just walk up and knock seven bells
out of them while they can't move.

An alternative is that after meeting a high level indivdiual they will
generally teleport to the upstairs to recover from combat. If you
teleport to the stairs while they are else where they will hang around
you and not teleport away.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

thiskidrob@yahoo.com writes:

> I think I may have just lost the orb. I zapped a wand of fire at Lord
> Surdur, and he fell through the hole and disappeared.

Did that happen on the lowest level of the Quest (i.e., the
one you meet Lord Surtur)? I read in the gazeteer

http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/gazetteer/quest/val.html#goal

that this level has undiggable walls, but no mention of
undiggable floor, so if that means the floor *is* diggable,
Lord Surtur could have escaped 'downwards' -- but I have
no idea which level would lie 'below' the lowest Quest
level. In case, however, you were e.g. on the starting level
of the Quest, no worries, Surtur should have fallen down
one or two levels, just go looking. You can use telepathy
or detect monster to find him, or just wait a little; after
a short time of healing he will teleport near you, if present
at the level.

Still I don't exactly understand what this has to do with a
wand of fire; if by that you meant that he was standing on
a square of ice, which got molten by a wand of fire, and
he consequently sunk (which I don't know for sure to be
possible, Surtur being a controlled teleporter and all), I'd
assume he drowned, leaving the orb and bell behind. A wand of
ice and maybe a pickaxe should help in this case to retrieve
the stuff.

> Did I lose the orb?

AFAIK there's no way to irretrievably lose the Quest artifact.

> Why couldnt I kill him, he kept teleporting
> around, and I used a stethescope on him, and I didnt seem to be
> damaging him much with my blessed Mjollinar warhammer.

Well, everytime you beat him up, he will teleport onto the
upstairs to heal up, then come back. There's a simple
strategy to prevent this.

Best,
Jakob

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> thiskidrob@yahoo.com writes:

>> I think I may have just lost the orb. I zapped a wand of fire at
>> Lord Surdur, and he fell through the hole and disappeared.

> Did that happen on the lowest level of the Quest (i.e., the
> one you meet Lord Surtur)? I read in the gazeteer
> that this level has undiggable walls, but no mention of
> undiggable floor, so if that means the floor *is* diggable,
> Lord Surtur could have escaped 'downwards' -- but I have
> no idea which level would lie 'below' the lowest Quest
> level.

I believe the Gazetteer mentions somewhere that all levels that are the
deepest in a branch always have undiggable floors. Anyway, since the OP
mentions a hole, he or she cannot have been on the deepest level of the
Quest.

> Still I don't exactly understand what this has to do with a
> wand of fire; if by that you meant that he was standing on
> a square of ice, which got molten by a wand of fire, and
> he consequently sunk (which I don't know for sure to be
> possible, Surtur being a controlled teleporter and all), I'd
> assume he drowned, leaving the orb and bell behind. A wand of
> ice and maybe a pickaxe should help in this case to retrieve
> the stuff.

If Lord Surtur was standing on ice, he cannot have been standing on a
hole.

>> Did I lose the orb?

> AFAIK there's no way to irretrievably lose the Quest artifact.

I believe you're wrong. The three invocation artifacts and the Amulet of
Yendor cannot be lost. It is quite possible to irrevocably destroy the
Quest artifacts, for example by overenchanting Quest artifact weapons.

>> Why couldnt I kill him, he kept teleporting
>> around, and I used a stethescope on him, and I didnt seem to be
>> damaging him much with my blessed Mjollinar warhammer.

> Well, everytime you beat him up, he will teleport onto the
> upstairs to heal up, then come back. There's a simple
> strategy to prevent this.

Which explains the wand of fire. It did so much damage that Lord Surtur
found it necessary to retreat to the stairs to heal up.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:

[spoiler not explicitly stating lowest Wuest level has
undiggable floor]
> I believe the Gazetteer mentions somewhere that all levels that are the
> deepest in a branch always have undiggable floors.

Makes sense, and I'm 'intuitively certain' that this is the case,
but I'm a bit cautious about my intuition and nethack..

> Anyway, since the OP
> mentions a hole, he or she cannot have been on the deepest level of the
> Quest.

Well, if it were diggable, Surtur could've used a /oDigging.

> > Still I don't exactly understand what this has to do with a
> > wand of fire; if by that you meant that he was standing on
> > a square of ice, which got molten by a wand of fire, and
> > he consequently sunk (which I don't know for sure to be
> > possible, Surtur being a controlled teleporter and all), I'd
> > assume he drowned, leaving the orb and bell behind. A wand of
> > ice and maybe a pickaxe should help in this case to retrieve
> > the stuff.
>
> If Lord Surtur was standing on ice, he cannot have been standing on a
> hole.

Of course, but maybe the OP didn't exactly mean what he wrote.
Happens a lot to almost anybody.

> > AFAIK there's no way to irretrievably lose the Quest artifact.
>
> I believe you're wrong. The three invocation artifacts and the Amulet of
> Yendor cannot be lost. It is quite possible to irrevocably destroy the
> Quest artifacts, for example by overenchanting Quest artifact weapons.

Of course, I forgot about weapons. However, I have trouble finding
a way to crash or lose the Orb of detection (funny, since it should
not be sturdier than the Tsurugi, IMO).

> >> Why couldnt I kill him, he kept teleporting
> >> around, and I used a stethescope on him, and I didnt seem to be
> >> damaging him much with my blessed Mjollinar warhammer.
>
> > Well, everytime you beat him up, he will teleport onto the
> > upstairs to heal up, then come back. There's a simple
> > strategy to prevent this.
>
> Which explains the wand of fire. It did so much damage that Lord Surtur
> found it necessary to retreat to the stairs to heal up.

A fire wand damaging Surtur? We talk about the guy living
comfy inside a castle surrounded by lava? I would believe
he's fire-resistant.

Best,
Jakob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Wed, 18 May 2005, Jakob Creutzig wrote:

> "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:

> > > AFAIK there's no way to irretrievably lose the Quest artifact.
> >
> > I believe you're wrong. The three invocation artifacts and the Amulet of
> > Yendor cannot be lost. It is quite possible to irrevocably destroy the
> > Quest artifacts, for example by overenchanting Quest artifact weapons.
>
> Of course, I forgot about weapons. However, I have trouble finding
> a way to crash or lose the Orb of detection (funny, since it should
> not be sturdier than the Tsurugi, IMO).

Overcharging it ?

Would some non-enchantable, non-chargeable quest artifact be "stronger" ?
That should include the Eye, the Eyes, the Heart, the Key, the PYEC.

Can (quest) artifacts be disintegrated ? (by Lichs, Dragon, angry God)

Of course, another way to irrevocably lose an item, even Quest artifact,
would be to go on the Planes without it (iirc, you cannot come back from
the planes).
Or to leave it in Quest level and then angry the Quest leader (I think
this forbid you to go back on the Quest levels).

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:

>>> AFAIK there's no way to irretrievably lose the Quest artifact.

>> I believe you're wrong. The three invocation artifacts and the
>> Amulet of Yendor cannot be lost. It is quite possible to irrevocably
>> destroy the Quest artifacts, for example by overenchanting Quest
>> artifact weapons.

> Of course, I forgot about weapons. However, I have trouble finding
> a way to crash or lose the Orb of detection (funny, since it should
> not be sturdier than the Tsurugi, IMO).

The easiest test in wizard mode is to put it in a bag of holding, and
put that bag into another bag of holding. Using a single cursed bag of
holding and repeatedly looking into that bag without taking it out
should also work.

>> Which explains the wand of fire. It did so much damage that Lord
>> Surtur found it necessary to retreat to the stairs to heal up.

> A fire wand damaging Surtur? We talk about the guy living
> comfy inside a castle surrounded by lava? I would believe
> he's fire-resistant.

He is. I was mistaken here.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:

> Jakob Creutzig wrote:
>
> >>> AFAIK there's no way to irretrievably lose the Quest artifact.
>
> >> I believe you're wrong. The three invocation artifacts and the
> >> Amulet of Yendor cannot be lost. It is quite possible to irrevocably
> >> destroy the Quest artifacts, for example by overenchanting Quest
> >> artifact weapons.
>
> > Of course, I forgot about weapons. However, I have trouble finding
> > a way to crash or lose the Orb of detection (funny, since it should
> > not be sturdier than the Tsurugi, IMO).
>
> The easiest test in wizard mode is to put it in a bag of holding, and
> put that bag into another bag of holding.

Silly me forgot that you /can/ put the Quest artifact inside
a container. Of course this makes destroying it trivial.
My bad.

Best,
Jakob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Let me clarify a bit. I was not on the deepest dungeon level when this
happened. I had went up a few levels towards the beginning of the
quest. He was on ice when I zapped a wand of fire, and he fell through
the hole. I guess that I can go down the stairs and find him again.

Are there any other strategies if I don't have a potion of paralysis?
I can do decent melee damage, but he does keep teleporting away. If I
stand on the stairs, can I fight him and kill him?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

thiskidrob@yahoo.com wrote:

> I can do decent melee damage, but he does keep teleporting away.
> If I stand on the stairs, can I fight him and kill him?

As others have already said, yes. He can only teleport to and fro the
stairs, and he can only heal for free *on* the stairs.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

thiskidrob@yahoo.com wrote:

> Let me clarify a bit. I was not on the deepest dungeon level when this
> happened. I had went up a few levels towards the beginning of the
> quest. He was on ice when I zapped a wand of fire, and he fell through
> the hole. I guess that I can go down the stairs and find him again.

When a wand of fire hits ice, the ice just melts and turns into a pool
of water. It doesn't evaporate and leave a hole down to the next level.
If there (for some reason i don't understand) really is a hole instead
of a pool, then Surtur is probably downstair with your things, but if
there is a pool, Surtur probably drowned in it. Then your Quest artifact
is at the bottom of the pool, waiting for you to get it out.

> Are there any other strategies if I don't have a potion of paralysis?
> I can do decent melee damage, but he does keep teleporting away. If I
> stand on the stairs, can I fight him and kill him?

Good thinking! And if you stand on the stairs, you can escape upstairs
to heal whenever the enemy is getting the upper hand.

S.