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The AMD train just keeps on rolling!

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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 1, 2001 7:09:49 PM

I'm so enthusiastic about AMD and their upcoming products that I just had to say it in a public forum.....AMD KICKS ASS!! As if next weeks announcements weren't enough, check out <A HREF="http://www.msi.com.tw/newsrelease/2001/0601_6367.htm" target="_new"> this</A> awesome new board featuring nVIDIA's chipset.

More about : amd train rolling

June 1, 2001 7:13:06 PM

Hey I posted that first :)  Nice board eh? Hopefully soon we will be able to say goodbye VIA!

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 1, 2001 7:29:01 PM

Yeah, if that chipset performs as well as it's specs suggest, VIA's got some competition. And lets not forget the SIS 735 either. I think we are definitely witnessing the end of AMD's reliance on VIA. Next year is the icing on the cake when the Hammer chips integrate many chipset features onto the processor.
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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 1, 2001 7:32:53 PM

Integrated anything sucks. Yawn another low end solution for a ... well you know what ill say so i wount bother its getting old.

SPUDMUFFIN

<font color=red>Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It.</font color=red> :lol: 
June 1, 2001 7:34:13 PM

Connie sorry to upset up but... AMD will move the IA64 when its settle into the PC industry... AMD x86 64-bit will be dead before it is started... Stick to 32bit amd chips... Wait till a true IA64 AMD chip...

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
June 1, 2001 7:34:18 PM

the problem I see here...
the Geforce 2 is extremely memory hungry, it'll take EVERYTHING you give it.
what is the memory bandwidth of a GTS? like 5.7GBps?
1. will it require a DIMM for the Geforce alone?
2. will it use SMA or UMA or whatever, ie: will the Geforce eat your processor memory bandwidth while playing Q3 or something similarly memory intensive, or does it have the dedicated DIMM, which would be yes to number 1?
3. if you have you own AGP card, will you have the extra bandwidth available? or is it dedicated?
4. are the dual channels interleaved?

there are quite a few specs missing here... you could have a whopping 1GB of bandwidth left over after the Geforce gets cranking... so it could be SLOWER than the KT133.
just because its been touched by nVidia doesn't mean its golden.

----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
June 1, 2001 7:35:31 PM

74merc you can always disable on-board video.

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 1, 2001 7:46:40 PM

Or, as I see it, Intel will be forced into x86-64 when after two years of pimping their struggling IA64 ISA nobody is buying it. You didn't upset me because I totally disagree with you. Intel will have it's early IA64 adapters, which they've basically payed to use the new platform, but nobody else will want all the expense. Just when Intel starts gaining a little momentum next year here comes the inexpensive Hammers, able to run x86 at warp speed and you'll be able to run piles of them together with Hypertransport.
June 1, 2001 7:54:28 PM

That is something I wondered about as well, the fact that if you used an AGP card would you still have 4.2 gig of bandwith available. But it also states that you can have up to 1.5 gig of memory installed. With this in mind I do not see how one of the memory slots could be dedicated to only video.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
June 1, 2001 8:17:54 PM

you didn't answer a single question I have.
there is an AGP port, no kidding you can disable the onboard graphics.
I don't think I've seen a system you couldn't.
my question is would it be beneficial.

----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
June 1, 2001 8:20:52 PM

it said is is capable of 1.5GB of ram and 4.2GBps bandwidth.
it never said that its system ram or system bandwidth.
it could very well be 1GB system ram and 512MB of Geforce ram, who the hell knows.
everything here is pure speculation, even my posts.
for all we know nVidia might have such an ego they won't LET you disable the onboard...

----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
June 1, 2001 8:27:18 PM

yep, kinda like the i815?

----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 1, 2001 8:34:30 PM

Unfortunately, it is microATX. And only three PCI slots. Only good for a notebook. Alas, I'll have to wait some more...

Leo
June 1, 2001 8:38:23 PM

Well, lets think about this. I think it is pretty safe to say that the board does not have one dimm slot dedicated to video. If it did that would mean you could technically have a 512 meg video card? ( This being the only way you could obtain 1.5 gig memory) As for nvidia being so stubborn not to allow disabling the onboard video, then why include an agp slot on the board? It will be interesting to note how other video cards run on it though ( ie ATI Kyro ) somehow I see a big potential for problems here :)  So, then taking these things for granted, the only thing that could happen is if an add on AGP card is installed somehow the memory bus itself is disabled. This could be possible, but it would seem that this would be rather expensive to implement.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
June 1, 2001 8:39:46 PM

Yeah, I agree, depends on how good the onboard audio is I guess. To my knowledge, Abit has a fullatx version about to be released.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
June 1, 2001 8:44:28 PM

Also note, the description states "when using two DDR modules 4.2 gig bandwith is avialble" It does not state that using two is neccesary. So with this in mind, would using only one DDR module not allow use of onboard video? Maybe, but I highly doubt it.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
June 1, 2001 8:48:47 PM

don't take everything I say as my stance, I tend to play devil's advocate alot, helps clear up my decision if I nail both companies/products to the wall.
choose the lesser of two crappies.

anyway, yea, it would be kind of rediculous to have a 512meg graphics card, but from what I've read on it so far, one version will have a dedicated channel, the other they're not so clear on.
so, odds are, cheapo micro atx is going to be 2.1GBps for graphics and 2.1GBps for system, which actually should perform well anyway, and the other(hopefully) will be 2.1 graphics and 2.1 system until you drop in another AGP card, which would be 4.2 for system.
or, it could be the cheap one is only single channel, and the good one is how I described the cheap one.
either way, my little bro is liable to get the micro atx in his computer... he only plays games, integrated or not, the Geforce 2 should be more than enough for him for quite some time.
its going to be interesting, hopefully...

----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
June 1, 2001 9:18:26 PM

I know you are just playing devil's advocate. I am just trying to think this through on the limited knowledge available at this time. My thoughts are this. 4.2 gig bandwith available when two DDR modules are installed. Of course when using the onboard graphics this would suffer but it would still kick anything out there to date with onboard graphics. Without a seperate dedicated dimm to just the onboard graphics I would summise that it shares it memory just like anyother onboard solution to date. This would equate to when onboard video is disabled still giving 4.2 gig of bandwith to CPU. The question is how well will the athlon use this increased bandwith?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
June 1, 2001 11:19:48 PM

Quote:
Integrated anything sucks.

Hmmm the 486 and up have had an integrated FPU, vs. the separate FPU in previous generations. Reduced trace length and enhanced communication between the two units allowed greater speed out of the whole shebang. Oh, but it's integrated. Man, it sucks!

Hmmm Intel CPUs have an integrated thermal cutoff. You Intel fanatics have been harping on that for ages...oh, wait, integrated anything sucks? Damn, I guess that integrated thermal cutoff sucks too! Gee, I'm glad you set me straight!

Hmmm I hear Northwood is supposed to have an integrated memory controller. Whoops, I guess that sucks too!

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
June 1, 2001 11:30:54 PM

Athlon will benefit nicely from increased bandwith. At 266 mHz bus, the Athlon itself wants a full 2.1 GB/sec bandwith, which is all current DDR solutions can provide. However, the AGP slot, PCI, etc. all want more bandwith as well, making the system needs of an overall 266 mHz Athlon system somewhere in the range of 4 GB/sec I believe. The RAM in a dual channel configuration will really allow Athlons to shine now that their bandwith needs are fully met. Isn't a Pentium 4's overall system bandwith only 3.2 GB/sec? Athlon 4's sure will do well with this chipset.

"Trying is the first step towards failure."
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 2, 2001 12:51:45 AM

guess he set me straight too! I thot all that stuff was great. LOL! :) 

Aklein

It's raining outside, and my lawn has grown a foot overnight!
June 2, 2001 7:48:08 AM

<b>there is an AGP port, no kidding you can disable the onboard graphics.
I don't think I've seen a system you couldn't.</b>
What about <font color=blue>Intel i810</font color=blue> chipset mobo. Can its integrated AGP be disabled? I ask this because my friend has one (you know, E-Machines) and I'm not sure how to upgrade by buying a Video PCI card (it doesn't have AGP slot).

:smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.
June 2, 2001 8:35:14 AM

My fathers computer has the 810 chipset in it, and I could not find any way to disable the on board video either. But there was an option in the bios to use an 'add-on' video card in a pci slot, which I did. and it worked perfectly, just had to disable the integrated video in windows...

Jump, Jump Now!!
June 2, 2001 4:57:14 PM

Yeah there are a few out there, Mainly Intel boards ( but alas I have seen a few SIS boards as well) that it can be a real bother disabling onboard video. Disabling them within windows is the only way. this board however has an AGP slot which, unlike a pci slot, is only used for graphics cards. I have never seen a board with an agp slot that the onboard graphics could not be disabled.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
June 2, 2001 5:39:28 PM

I think spud was referring to intergrated mainboards, the low-end type sh!t.

as for the Intel thermo diode, I personally think this a great feature for any processor, it's too bad AMD took so long to put it in, I guess RMA's speak louder than ppl do.

"AMD/VIA...you <i>still</i> are the weakest link, good bye!"
June 2, 2001 5:47:16 PM

Thanks <font color=blue>Lemming</font color=blue> and <font color=blue>Ncogneto</font color=blue>.

:smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.
June 2, 2001 5:52:34 PM

Quote:
as for the Intel thermo diode, I personally think this a great feature for any processor, it's too bad AMD took so long to put it in, I guess RMA's speak louder than ppl do

Nah.. I think AMD didn't count on so people not knowing
how to properly put on a heatsink! :lol: 

Intel Components, AMD Components... all made in Taiwan!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 2, 2001 8:14:12 PM

"I think spud was referring to intergrated mainboards, the low-end type sh!t"

Like ALL Intel integrated boards? :) 

Aklein

It's raining outside, and my lawn has grown a foot overnight!
a b à CPUs
June 2, 2001 9:25:16 PM

Calm Down! Ok, now to begin with, most of us have seen shared memory integrated video before. Usually you can set the amount of dedicated memory in BIOS. The advantage nVidia gets in their integrated video is that it also has a 128-bit memory pathway. This means that as long as you use TWO dimms, you get 128-bit SYSTEM ram, which is a godsend in itself! But you also get 128-bit DDR VIDEO RAM at the same time, which is better than the Geforce 2 MX has ever had before. So the increased memory bandwidth for video should make it outperform any previous MX card! BUT you also get a 128-BIT DEDICATED VIDEO PIPELINE, which is FAR superior to what the AGP slot provides. If everything works as it's supposed to, we are probably looking at an integrated MX that can outperfrom the GTS! BUT it still lacks the major advantage of the X-Box, from which this chipset was derived-it has MX architecture instead of GF3. Let's wait for the reviews on this one-it might just be the best thing since sliced bread! OH, and nVidia likes to release new products quickly, so I expect we might see a new version of this chipset with an even better graphics core in 6 months!

Cast not thine pearls before the swine
June 2, 2001 9:34:35 PM

yeah, and like all intergrated duron and athlon boards ;-)

"AMD/VIA...you <i>still</i> are the weakest link, good bye!"
June 2, 2001 9:40:20 PM

Speaking theoretically, could the crossbar memory technology from the GeForce 3 be included in a future nVidia chipset?

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
June 2, 2001 9:42:54 PM

the information I have read it already is.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
June 2, 2001 9:43:53 PM

Quote:
I think spud was referring to intergrated mainboards, the low-end type sh!t.

Perhaps you should drop into threaded mode and see exactly what post Spud was <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&..." target="_new">replying to</A>. It's the simplest thing to do (it's a button on the upper right of the forum toolbar), and it may help keep you from looking like a fool next time. Just a thought... :wink:

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
June 2, 2001 10:12:08 PM

calm down? wtf?

anyway, it might just be the best thing since sliced bread. My point is of what we KNOW of it, there is no reason to have a cow and praise nVidia or preorder one.
we know very little about this board or chipset that can be verified.
sit back, have a beer, and wait.

----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 2, 2001 10:48:17 PM

A fan can fail, no need to loose your CPU because of a bad fan!

---
Engage!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 2, 2001 11:11:11 PM

I believe MX cards have 128 bit memory, unless they are DDR then they are 64 bit, making the SDRAM versions slightly faster. Furthermore the MX can use RAM at over 180 Mhz.

RAM for the graphics is probably piped, so how wide and fast is the pipe? This is probably better graphics than offered by the competition, but probably worse than what you get from a good addon. Like a real Geforce or Kyro.

Unless onboard graphics are virtually free, I would rather not have it!

Same goes for onboard Audio. A high quality Audioboard is good for years, and can survive several mobo changes! Onboard Audio is terrible!

Onboard Audio and Graphics is just to make it possible for vendors to make the cheapest possible system. It doesn't matter that audio has terrible output quality and CPU load, and that graphics sucs, because of noise on the video signal. Load on the RAM bandwidth, Eating your free RAM.
Both are useless and are doing no good when you finally realise this and upgrade.

Onboard this and that is okay for cheap office machines, but for enthusiasts its useless, and cost you extra money in the end.



---
Engage!
June 2, 2001 11:21:33 PM

there's another area of question.
128 pathway on my MX, 32 megs 166mhz ram.
ok, 128 bit pathway to lower latency 100 or 133mhz DDR ram.
if I remember correctly, the Geforce 2 MX has something like 2.7 GBps bandwidth, that's not bad.
not enough either.
also, ladies and gents, remember, this is suppose to be the same( I think) sound chip as the Xbox uses, I doubt its a low quality integrated system, I just have my doubts its the <b><i>SAVIOR OF AMD</i></b>
lets see how it does against the new bad boy on the block.
I'm waiting on several articles pertaining to Sis 735 vs Nforce. 12 rounds of kick ass, knock down, drag out fighting.
although, if all goes well, I'll let you know how the Micro ATX version of Nforce works out. Little bro needs a system upgrade...

----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
June 2, 2001 11:42:38 PM

hey numbskull, integrated anything = low cost, low cost = low-end sh!t!

"AMD/VIA...you <i>still</i> are the weakest link, good bye!"
June 2, 2001 11:53:32 PM

yep, just like the 815.
and server boards... we all know they're sh!t...

----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
a b à CPUs
June 3, 2001 12:08:48 AM

NOT necessarily. When Aureal folded, nVidia recruited a bunch of their engineers to work on the audio end of this (and the X-box) chipset. Now most of us know that Aureal carried a far superior product to anything Creative produced (driver problems aside-they went bankrupt before they could revise them). So IF the engineers did an equally good job on this integrated audio, you get the convenience of NOT using a PCI slot, plus the quality of a good sound system.
As far as integrated video, their are many design advantages available to it. The only reasons it has performed so poorly in the past are that 1) former designers restricted themselves to the standard AGP architecture instead of taking advantage of the greater bandwidth available 2) the graphics core they used has always been low-end, and 3) Memory bandwidth using standard SDR arhcitecture. nVidia has sought solutions by 1) providing a wider path to the graphics engine than AGP normally provides 2) using a higher quality graphics core and 3) offering double bandwidth (as long as you use two DIMMs) using double data rate modules. These advantages can make the integrated solution perform MUCH better than the MX-AGP on which they were based. So we can only hope they did an excellent job of execution, and anxiously await the first reviews.
One more thing-I think they should have gone with a ZIF socket for the chipset so you would have the choice of upgrading the integrated video simply by replacing the northbridge, instead of the whole damned board.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine
June 3, 2001 12:16:40 AM

lol Chicken-Wuss is that your real name? go read what I posted in the mobo section.

"AMD/VIA...you <i>still</i> are the weakest link, good bye!"
June 3, 2001 12:30:06 AM

hey Chicken-wussy stfu already it's pass your bedtime.

"AMD/VIA...you <i>still</i> are the weakest link, good bye!"
June 3, 2001 12:33:40 AM

Well, if you want to pay more for a processor that does less (and puts out about the same amount of heat), that's your business. *shrug*

Plus, you still missed the point. By Spud's logic, a lot of the nice CPU features you Intel junkies keep harping on suck. But he said it, not me! :wink:

Oh, and I'll point out that some of Intel's top-of-the-line ATX boards (like the L440GX) have "integrated everything"--video, LAN, SCSI, everything. Wow, I guess that's just "low-end sh!t" too! Man, Intel makes such low-end sh!t! Thanks for letting us know! :wink:

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
June 3, 2001 12:54:08 AM

<b>they are all sh|t because they are made by Intel!</b>
I wouldn't be so sure! If you don't know what you're talking about, please shut up.

:smile: Good or Bad have no meaning at all, depends on what your point of view is.
June 3, 2001 3:09:35 AM

It would appear these folks just don't seem to get it. Sure, you will be able to get better video graphics out of a Add-on AGP card...thats just not the point! This is going to make AMD systems very very attractive to OEM's ( ie. gateway, compaq, Dell maybe?) The fact is this will rock the socks of of any other onboard graphics solution and totally anihilate the likes of the onboard graphics of the I815. As for the audio, not everybody needs all the bells and whistles of the soundblaster live series and this will suit them just fine. I wonder if you will be able to install a AGP card and still use the onboard for dual monitor's? Now that would be cool! Look folks, this is the first of more to come from Nvidia....more will surely follow? Why did they first release an integrated board? Well, quite honestly because this is what AMD needs more than anything else to sell more chips! Think about it! Even with the the onboard graphics and audio, we get the expertise of nvidia, who has a driver team second to none, more expereirance with DDR memory controllers than anyone bar none, and perhaps, if rumours are true, the first chipset with the crossbar memory controller! ( btw crash, you seem to be the only one here that can grasp this)

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
June 3, 2001 4:24:11 AM

I hope your just being facetious.
otherwise, you are truly dumber than I thought you were.
Even counting the 810 as a low end POS, and the 820 utter frugg up, Intel has a better stabilty and performance record than ANY other chipset company.
the 440 BX has yet to be beaten by ANY chipset running the same speed, the 815 is better in the respect it can clock higher, other than that, there is no Intel processor compatible chipset to dethrone it.
If AMD could run on Intel chipsets, honestly, the world would be a better place... cure for cancer, emissions, etc... lol

----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 3, 2001 5:31:57 AM

HEEEYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!

that was a great post coming from you!!!!!!!
Join the power(AMD) and the stabilty(Intel), then you get the comp of the GOD!!!!!!

Hey then the flame war would be over, but wait a sec... wath do we do with all those proud fighter????? ;o)
June 3, 2001 6:29:32 AM

Quote:
that was a great post coming from you!!!!!!!

whats that suppose to mean?
I'm not particularly loyal to either side, I'm loyal to my wallet and my work, beside that...

----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
a b à CPUs
June 3, 2001 6:40:00 AM

If the Athlon would have fit a BX board I would have built an AMD system. As it was, when I finally got completely fed up with the problems I had with my AMD/VIA system, I built a system with, what was at the time, the new kid on the block-an Asus CUSL2. Now my wife has that board, and I'm using a BX, simply because she needed a desktop case, and I wanted a tower. The BlasterPC I bought as a second system has all the extra Platinum features built into the case, and becuase she couldn't use it, I am. It simply wouldn't fit into the entertainment center where she has hers.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 3, 2001 10:51:35 AM

Wow all i meant was intergrated boards suck. Man oh man what has this forum become? Geeze.

SPUDMUFFIN

<font color=red>Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It.</font color=red> :lol: 
!