So...what really is the best?

[AndyE12]

Ok Im about to buy a P4 1.7 G 128MB and a Gefore3 at dell or at alienware. Or I was thinking the exact same thing but with a AMD 1.33. Now Im only 17 so I know the smartest thing is to go out and put the components together but my paychecks are about 275 every 2 weeks so that takes awhile. So with all the big retailers I can pay monthly sums so that is why I am doing it.

Im so confused on the cpu to choose I have read so many diffrent things saying which is better. I am going to use this system for pretty much every game that is anything that comes out and for graphic programs like photoshop and bryce and alot of other things. But is the performance so diffrent like who cares id amd opens word .2 seconds faster or what is 20 frame when you are already at 130fps. Can someone make a snap judgment for me Im really bothered now. Oh also what cpu is better set for the future. Thank you

 

[Guest]

AMD Athlon man

P4 will fade out quick then ur baord and Memory will be useless

...

stick with AMD

--call it what you wish, with this machine I can make mercury flow in 3 directions at once--

 

[Kelledin]

Right now, the P4 1.7GHz and the T-bird 1.33GHz are about neck and neck. For specific apps, one or the other might pull ahead.

If you want a good, inexpensive, general-purpose CPU with a long upgrade path, I'd suggest getting a T-bird 1.33GHz. You should get the P4 only if you're especially interested in the apps it does well in, and if you can afford the higher price tag. Right now the only application where I've seen the P4 take a significant lead is video encoding (DivX).

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."

 

[dhlucke]

Consider getting a loan from a bank instead of using their payment plan. You'll probably save a lot of money since the retailers will rape you in APR. You'll need your parents to cosign though...

<font color=red>Amd or Intel? Who cares?? Not me...</font color=red>

 

[AndyE12]

oh yah the apr is so god awful it makes me sick. But I asked the bank if they would give me a lone if my parents co-signed and they said you must be of legal age, because failure of payment in some fashion I cant be held against or something along the lines of that. My take was were a bank with alot of money you are a 17 year old kid with a annual inncome of only 6,000 dollars. So come back to us in 6 months because for some reason in 6 months I will change greatly and will become more responsible and grow up when I hit the ripe old age of 18. Oh well, Im going to grin and bare it and pretty much bend over and get royally screwed over with the 24% apr.

Now if I can only choose a cpu. It seems to me like the AMD would suit me the best because hopefully the Palamino MB's will work with the TB but probly not since motherboard manufacturers wouldnt want us to keep attached to one MB for too long. Plus the memory is so cheap and a I have 2 sticks of 128 DDR 2100 or something like that running around here as I won in a door prize when I walked into CompUSA when I went to pick up a single screw for my heatsink. I will get the AMD unless otherwise change my mind, which I probly will.

 

[somerandomguy]

If you've already got the RAM, then I don't see any reason to not buy the Athlon.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."

 

[Phelk]

Sounds like you already have an old PC, What is it?

If you have an old one then you probably have all the parts to build yourself a new one over the next few months. The people in here will help you through the project. It will be a very rewarding (and probably frustrating) experience, it builds character!

This way you will not have to get yourself in debt and pay the APR. Not to mention you will appreciate your PC more and learn something on the way.

Just save up to buy a new case (if you need it) mobo and CPU, then use your DDR memory & strip the keyboard, monitor, mouse etc from your old machine. You will save a fortune!

<font color=blue> The Revolution starts here... as soon as I finish my coffee </font color=blue>

 

[Toejam31]

Andy ... please read. True story.

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=1136#1136" target="_new">http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=1136#1136</A>

Honest to God ... you'd be better off buying the components one by one, and building it yourself. I might have a nice computer now ... but it took nearly a year for that to happen, and between price depreciation and the money I spent on replacement components ... I lost nearly two grand.

And whatever you do ... avoid Gerald and Chris like the plague. Chris won't follow-through, and Gerald couldn't spell his own name with a gun to his head. He'll send your computer to Egypt if you tell him South Carolina.

Why don't you check out Falcon Northwest, if you want a nice gaming machine, and don't want to build it yourself? They make a really nice system, dude ... even better than Alienware, and the prices are lower. They'll put all the components in a sweet aluminum case and overclock the video card for you ... and it won't void the warranty.

<A HREF="http://www.falcon-nw.com/site.htm" target="_new">http://www.falcon-nw.com/site.htm</A>

Believe me, the experience I had with Alienware was far worse than I could begin to describe without writing a novel.

As for the processor ... the P4 might cost more, but the platform as a whole is a lot more stable than an AMD/VIA rig. I'm sorry AMD lovers, but the fact is ... until VIA finally makes a chipset that is stable, the possibility that you'll end up with a computer that gives you grief is far higher than with Intel. That might not be true of everyone, and I hope it will improve in the future, but for now, it's still more of a risk. My current system is much, much more stable than anything I've seen with a VIA mainboard. For example ... Iv'e got eleven games currently installed on this machine; Black And White, Giants: Citizen Kabuto, Diablo II, Deus Ex, Tribes 2, Quake 3 Arena, MDK2, MechWarrior 3, Pirate's Moon, MechWarrior 4, and Unreal Tournament. And I've never had a single crash, lockup, or freeze, of any kind when playing any of them. No screen jitter. No blue screens. And after what I went through previously with my old system, my relief should be palpable for miles away. The proof, gentlemen, is in the pudding. And that's not specs or benchmarks ... that's real-world, everyday use ... where it counts.

Toejam31

<font color=purple>My Rig:</font color=purple> <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=6847</A>

 

[Crashman]

I would suggest that you wait until the fall to buy your system. Both AMD and Intel are releasing NEW PROCESSPRS for the desktop-an improved version of the Pentium 4 and an improved version of the T-Bird. Plus, the price on the GeForce 3 should be down $50 or more by then. The new P4 has the technology to kick AMD's current T-Bird into orbit, but then the improved AMD processor might still be better than that! We don't know yet! But what we do know is that prices will continue to decline on these parts, and that perfromance will increase. If you wanted to build your own, you could start now buy getting things that will depreciate more slowly, such as a CDRW, Hard drive, case, modem, and soundcard.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

 

[Guest]

I agree with them. Retailers will rip you off if your thinking about a monthly installment plan.

I got a suggestion, though. If the computer you got right now ain't TOO shabby to hold on for another month or so, I'd say go save your money 'till you got 700 bucks or more. By then, prices will be dropping like cow dung, and you'll probably be able to buy any cpu and components you wish.

Is it THAT hard to wait off a few weeks??? I know you can do it!!!

<font color=blue>"640 Kilobytes of computer memory ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981</font color=blue>

 

[Guest]

Dammit! Me and Crashman are thinking the same, but he beat me by 3 SECONDS!! LOL!!!

<font color=blue>"640 Kilobytes of computer memory ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981</font color=blue>

 

[AndyE12]

I have heard that from alot of people, nobody is really pleased with alienware or there support. I actually will rule them out after calling them today. I wanted to see what there apr and there policy was on it. The guy had no idea they did monthly payments ( says right on there website they do ) so he said he would put me on hold well when he went to hit the button I think he missed it because all he did was put the phone down. I heard him asking the guy beside him who also didnt have an idea. I hung up, I dont see myself buying from them. For falcon they were a little exspensive, I have configured abunch of comps from alot of diffrent companies and they were really high about 200 more.

Oh for everyone wondering what my comp is :
HP Pavilion 8140
Intel 200MHZ MMX
32MB
24x cdrom
modem sound
2mb video built in


so for this day in age it sucks and cant do anything. It cant be upgraded without buying a new case, sound card, motherboard, cpu, video card, well actually everything.
I dont need a new mouse, keyboard, or monitor. I have a intellimouse, ms natural keyboard, and a 21 inch Sony GD500.
I got the monitor as a gift from the old lady across the street .

 

[Guest]

Are you sure you really need a bleeding edge computer?
Everybody seems to be suggesting high-end (P4, 1.33 GHz Tbird, etc.)

I would take a closer look at what you <i>really</i> need in terms of performance. You might be quite happy with Duron 800, a decent graphics card and plenty of RAM.

If you lower your sights a little, you might easily save for it over a few months. IMHO, at 17 you should't be getting into debt for a computer.


<i>Cognite Tute</i>
(Think for Yourself)

 

[Pettytheft]

I'll second that.

My current gaming system is:
Duron 750@900
Geforce2 Pro
256MB Ram
ATA100 HD
WinME

I have yet to see a game that can tax my system to the point it was unplayable(Even with good resolution and quality). Just go for a Athlon 1GHz or even a Duron (Especially if your primarily gaming). 256 Megs of Ram. If you want high end right now then go for a faster Video Card. 800MHz+ is fast enough for any applications out now or even for the next year. Save your money and if you want to splurge, get a kickass Monitor. It's the only thing that you'll use for your next 5-6 systems.

Blah, Blah Blahh, Blahh, blahh blah blahh, blah blah.

 

[Guest]

I triple that.

If your getting an expensive high-end computer soley to make your friends jealous, your losing out.
Go consider what you'll be doing right now and for the next 3 years or so to figure what components you'll need.
Will you be doing voice recognition or extensive video encoding all day long, then go get the P4. But you certainly don't need that much power to use Photoshop.

OH yeah, did that old lady REALLY give that monitor as a gift?? OR did you jack it from her??

<font color=blue>"640 Kilobytes of computer memory ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981</font color=blue>

 

[dhlucke]

I kinda agree and I kinda don't. When I was 16 I got my first job and with the help of my parents I spent $3000 on a computer. The difference was that my parents payed it all off right away, I gave them $1500 I had saved so far, and then I payed them $150 a month until it was all payed off. That way I didn't pay any interest.

If you are seriously going to have to pay 25% interest, you really should get yourself some free time to pick people's minds here, read hardware sites, and build the machine yourself. Set your sites on something a bit lower like a 1 Ghz with a good video card and a lot of memory which will do everything and then spend the 2 hours building it. EVEN if something was to go wrong, the cost of replacing the part will be miniscule compared to what you are about to pay. Better yet you'll learn something from the experience.

If you've made it to this site, then you are halfway ready to build your own machine. Get a couple friends with half a brain to help you too. It's really not that bad.

<font color=red>Amd or Intel? Who cares?? Not me...</font color=red>

 

[AndyE12]

There is no problem with building a computer because I can easilybuild one, I have built two other computers for family. Thats not a problem, its just the wait. Its summer now and when Im not working or out with friends and at home I want to be able to play some games some really good games, my 200mhz cant play anything made in this century, pong gets really boring j/k But if I were to drop down to say a 900 or a 1.0 GHZ will the performance be there? and then get something like a 32MB Geforce 2 MX or something will I still be able to play games and have fun. You gotta remember I have never played a D3D game, ever !! I want to have fun and if something like a 900 is fine then I will do that. I dont encode or decode anything. I have patience, because of the 200MHZ but not to much.

Oh and for the 21 inch monitor, the lady beside me actually broke te connector from the monitor to the computer. She somehow broke some of the prongs, she didnt know that. She asked me to look at it and I told her she blew out the crt tube. She ended up giving it to me, while she went and bought some $2,000 LCD screen. I'm waiting for her to break that. Oh I have a question what are these nob's on the back of the monitor I have inputs all over the back it is all labled "signal B" - the inputs are : R,G,B Comp HD, VD. I know the R,G,B are colors but for what? Damn exspensive confusing monitor.

 

[Guest]

"But if I were to drop down to say a 900 or a 1.0 GHZ will the performance be there?"

Your damn right the performance will be there!!! Also, if you get one of the latest batches of Retail AMD 1.0ghz your almost guaranteed it can be overclocked to at least 1.4ghz easily--and probably higher. In addition, playing games at very high resolutions, the Video Card becomes the bottle-neck, not the CPU.

Speaking of graphics cards, the Ge4ce 2 MX should be good for most games except the very most demanding ones. But if you wait, like I said, prices will be dropping like cow sh!t --and then the ge4ce 2 ultras and even the ge4ce 3 will start to look very attractive in terms of price and affordability.


<font color=blue>"640 Kilobytes of computer memory ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981</font color=blue>

 

[Guest]

Concerning those "nobs" in the back of your monitor...
they are the BNC Connectors.

the H/V Pin Assignment has signals of
Sync-On-Green: No Connection
Composite Sync: H/V Composite Sync.
Seperate Sync: H-Sync.

the V pin assignment
Sync-On-Green: No Connection
Composite Sync: No Connection
Seperate Sync: V-Sync.

and you know what R-G-B is.

they are used just like the D-Sub connectors (the one that connects your monitor to your video card).
You can use it as another signal source from like another computer.

<font color=blue>"640 Kilobytes of computer memory ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981</font color=blue>

 

[lamer_gamer]

First off I don't think you need to have a bleeding edge copmputer. I mean, I have a Duron 700 (non-oc'd), and a GeForce2 MX on a A7A266 MB, with a 20gig 7.2k rpm HDD. I'm getting 60+ fps on QIII Arena, as well as other games (except Undying, not sure why). I took the HDD, CDROM, floppy, SB pci128, RAM, KB, mouse, & monitor from my old system. The few parts I had to buy were quite inexpensive (the duron & HSF together cost about $50!). The point is, that for very little money I went from a system that really, <i>really</i> sucked to one that works pretty dang good! I agree that, at 17, you shouldn't be getting into debt over a freakin' computer! And the people here are extremely helpful with problems that might crop up. I know! I've had to pick some brains here many times for info.
Bottom line: A little money + a great resource (THG)= a really good machine that will do almost anything you want for a good year or two (during which you can save up for upgrades that will keep you happy)

My brain has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down

 

[Guest]

So you lied to some old lady to rip off her monitor.
Are you proud of yourself, you little sh1t worm?

<i>Cognite Tute</i>
(Think for Yourself)

 

[lamer_gamer]

Hey yeah! I just looked back over his post and it sure looks like he lied to her!
<b>What kind of dirtbag are you, to rip off an old lady?</b>


My brain has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down

 

[Guest]

Andy,
I must say I am almost in the same boat as you. I have a p2 233 mhz 2mb video with a addon voodoo 2 and 256mb of ram. My games no longer want to run on somethign this "slow". Desideing between AMD and INTEL is something I have not taken lightly, I used to hate AMD. Now I don't know exaclty but I am pretty sure I am going to go with a AMD but thats not set in gold. I have a couple desisions left to make

1) if I am going to build it myself, I am working on my a+ so that would be a advantage.
also I would like to add Firewire and USB support to the front of my machine's case I have no idea how to do that.
2) should I wait a while you know Windows XP is coming soon I would like to get a copy of that. (I am beta testing it as I type I have not gotten any Blue Screens of Deaths or nothing of the sorts I love it.Also the Prices I am told are coming down in the geforce 3 and the 1.4 AMD is coming soon. Along with the Atholon 4
3) is the Geforce 3 really worth my hard earned cash.
4) Am I sure that Intel can't when my aprovel back at this point in the game.

I am hoping that posting this message will help me when others reply. So anyone with ideas please let me know

Joeyman101

 

[dhlucke]

I think an 800 Mhz would last a year and a 1000 would last two. Keep in mind you can pop in a new processor when you're ready. The motherboards you buy today will at least be able to run the 1.5 Ghz T-birds, but will most likely also run the Palamino's up to who know what.

Buy a 1 Ghz and enjoy it

<font color=red>Amd or Intel? Who cares?? Not me...</font color=red>

 

[dhlucke]

First off what do you want to use the machine for? There is this general illusion on this board that everyone needs the top of the line hardware. Sure the prices are cheap and if you have the cash go for it, but it might just be overkill. So what have you got planned for the new machine?

<font color=red>Amd or Intel? Who cares?? Not me...</font color=red>