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Intel doomed by Nvidia

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June 4, 2001 6:54:09 PM

If you have read and understand the article on the Nvidia chipset then you realize Intel is doomed to lose serious market share. I just finished building a system and I will have to upgrade. The motherboards clearly will be superious for me since I have an AMD 1.2 Ghz and 256 MB PC2100. I figure I can sell my sound card and make up for some of the loss. Too bad it didn't come sooner though...would have saved me some $ that I spent. Anyhow, I think the biggest threat is the Microsoft had always worked closely with Intel, since Intel was the chipset and cpu king. I have a feeling things are about to change. This is the sort of thing that can ruin a company. Micosoft may start working more closely with Nvdia and eventually Intel will be the third party chipset. Won't happen overnight...but expect things to change. As for Creatives...their products are far overated. I paid too much for a Sound Blaster Live Platinum 5.1 and it wasn't worth it. Hopefully they will get theirs too. I think Intel deserves to lose $ and die down. Afterall, those greedy bastards raped me and my friends for years financially. That's my $.02.

It worked yesterday! :lol: 

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June 4, 2001 7:05:09 PM

Intel is not doomed. Many chipset companys are ready and willing to make chipsets for Northwood P4 socket 478 disign. Well Via has a SMP chipset for northwood ready to go. Chaintech has 7 socket 478 motherboard pre-pared.

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
June 4, 2001 7:56:09 PM

Quote:
I think Intel deserves to lose $ and die down. Afterall, those greedy bastards raped me and my friends for years financially. That's my $.02.

What do you think Nvidia has been doing with their video cards for the past year and a half? I also disagree with you on Creative's line of Sound products. They are worth the money you spend on them. I dont think there is a better card than the SBLive Platinum right now (For that price).

Also just wait until this chipset is actually released until you start to say it's performance is superior to everything else available. Also lets see the price of this chipset when it comes out. We cant use the Xbox as a model either. Microsoft is taking a loss on the hardware costs. I think this will be geared for the OEM's mainly. Hopefully they will release a board without some of the intergrated features. How many performance zealots out there would prefer a GeforceMX?

Also dont forget about the Creative Sounblaster Live2. It's also due for release this year.




Blah, Blah Blahh, Blahh, blahh blah blahh, blah blah.
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June 4, 2001 8:09:22 PM

Intel is not doomed, not by a long shot.

First, all claims made by Nvidia for nForce muct first be verified.

Assuming the chipset is all it is supposed to be:

1. Intel will lose marketshare to AMD, and will be forced to come up with an equivelent chipset (competition is what makes companies move), or to partner with nVidia so that the nForce is available for Intel Cpu's.

2. VIA, SIS, ALI and Creative Labs all have something to worry about. Perhaps they can come up with a solution that is better then nVidia (but will lose marketshare in the meantime).

3. [fantasy] Perhaps nVidia will create their own CPU (and do it in six months), taking marketshare away from both AMD and Intel. Nvidia becomes the leading force in PC's, forcing AMD and Intel to merge into one company to try and keep up.[/fantasy]

Back to reality:

If the chipset is not all it is made out to be, but has performance advantages over current chipsets, then 1 and 2 above will still apply. Intel will still have to pull something out of its hat, other then more MHZ. It will need VALUE and PERFORMANCE.

I still don't think Intel is doomed. Until Intel responds with like technology, we will see even lower prices for Intel products, and Intel will have to learn to live with lower profits. Intel will still dominate the server market, but will lose much of the home user market on system price/performance alone.

Hmmmm.... I just re-read my post. I think Intel is in for a very rocky ride the next two years. Perhaps they are doomed...

Wish I could see the future. Wish I could sell my Intel stock. Sorry I didn't buy more AMD stock in December. What's Nvidia stock going for?

<font color=blue>This is a Forum, not a playground. Treat it with Respect.</font color=blue>
June 4, 2001 8:13:46 PM

Quote:
Until Intel responds with like technology, we will see even lower prices for Intel products


Your answer is the Ace in the Pocket Northwood P4. Big 512kb L2 cache well help it out in the Long run.

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
June 4, 2001 8:14:21 PM

Well I wished nVidia would have included the newer stuff as in USB2 and IEEE firewire. I could care less about the MX graphics which is obsolete even before it launches. SMP would have made this a kickass chipset but it doesn't have that capability. Also AGP8x capability, where is it? What makes it have potential is the Twin Bank memory controller and the DASP, AMD HyperTransport will come in handy with SSCI Raid Controllers with the increase bandwidth potential. I can see a real OEM market for this board if it works well. Only three things I see that really sets this chipset apart from the others.

Well to eat your <b>C :smile: :smile: kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade :smile: n II</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 06/04/01 05:24 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 4, 2001 9:00:28 PM

The Creative Live is a poor performing card. Numerous reviews and forums have confirmed this. When it was release it was praised because it was better than anything at the time. There are many cards that are superior. For instance the Voyetra Turtle Beach Santa Cruz. It kicks the SB Live Platinum 5.1 to the curb review afert review. Did I mention it costs less :) 

There are articles talking about a refernce design that showed performance gains that are quite significant. Also, considering that the sound solution is 5 times as powerful as the current top Creative card I have no fear that it will surpass the new Creative card. Historically, sound cards don't grow in tenchnology as much as cpus and video cards. I forget the name of that law where they double every so many years. The other thing is it saves you $, frees up a PCI slot, and avoid compatibiility issues since it is intregrated.

The bottom line is Creative is like Intel. They have extored us because they held almost all of the market. Many people blindly buy a Creative video or audio card because they are so popular and not because of scietific reviews and benchmarks. For instance, tests have shown that a couple of sound cards give you better sound and use less cpu power than the Creative card that we are talking about. That transalted into higher FPS in 3d games. Anyhow, I don't argue that the card is good. The card however is not spectacular. That would be some of the other solutions. Sometimes being popular is all you need.

It worked yesterday! :lol: 
June 4, 2001 9:01:59 PM

They will not be the equals in what they have to offer...That will make a big difference in performance...That will make a big difference in OEMs using them over the Nvidia chipset...That will lead to declined sales...That will lead to less $

It worked yesterday! :lol: 
Anonymous
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June 4, 2001 9:48:23 PM

This equates to nothing people. You haven't seen a engineering sample of this so good chip set yet. And its so new I am not confident we shall see driver support in Windows XP. Can we say 4 in 1? This is another VIA in the making. If its good ill give it my praise till then I think its another VIA and trust me we shall rub it in as you have rubbed it in about the P4.

SPUDMUFFIN

<font color=red>Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It.</font color=red> :lol: 
June 4, 2001 9:59:25 PM

Quote:
The bottom line is Creative is like Intel.

ROFL!!
And you think Nvidia's any different! Nvidia has gobbled up twice the competition that Creative has. I really dont care because that's buisness. If it wasnt them doing it someone else would be doing it to them.

Turtle Beach has been chasing Creative for the longest time now. Well they finally created a better product. Good for them. Now what's going to happen in August when the SB Live2 comes out. There are twice as many good reviews of the SBLive 5.1 cards as there are bad ones. Yes Creative killed Aureal. Fine Aureal Vortex chip was better than Creatives stuff out. But it crashed peoples systems constantly. Also when I got my SBLive X-gamer I recieved Unreal Tournament, Thief2, DeusEx, and MDK2. Full versions. All this for $89 I dare you to find a better deal. The current SBLive Technology has been out for a while now, this year the SBLive2 will be released. There will be Creative haters complaining about that card as well.

Blah, Blah Blahh, Blahh, blahh blah blahh, blah blah.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pettytheft on 06/04/01 04:39 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 4, 2001 10:17:01 PM

THG does benchmarks many times with a cost to performance chart. The truth is Intel has not given much cost to performance on the higher end line of products. I am not sure if you are a gamer like me. I buy the best so that my experience is the best. The best should not always require you to grab your ankles and brace yourself for the raping. Though with Intel that has been the case for motherboards (because of thier chipset price) and processors. Nvidia has already floated some figures around for their chipset. The fact is that you won't need to buy a separate sound card. Thus while it might cost $10 to $20 more, you get more than your money back. They also offer a chance to get more performance out of your AMD cpu that you have bought or will buy. I'd like to see any other chipset hit the market and give me more bang for my buck. I dont' care if a company gobbles up all of the other companies. It only bothers me when they do it and also charge you more and don't put out the best product. Then I am getting raped for nothing. Intel has not doing anything that I would consider industry revolutionary in the past few years. They have progressed but not at that magnitude. Nvidia has make strides. That means I get a better gaming experience. And to a gaming addict like me...that is very pleasing. My first two computers were Intel. My last was an AMD. I don't think I need to worry about getting an Intel for a long time.

It worked yesterday! :lol: 
a b à CPUs
June 4, 2001 10:46:57 PM

Your forgetting several things, my friend, concernign that piece of sh*t Live series. Since I own and USE both Live Platinum 5.1 and Vortex2 cards, I am in an UNEQUALLY QUALIFIED position to say that the Live series is total garbage. The Vortex2 does not cause crashes, unless you hvae a VIA chipset, in which case EVERYTHING causes crashes. From the time of it's release, reviewers noticed DROPPED FRAME RATES in games when using the Live! The performance menalty of the Live versus Vortex 2 CAN BE OVER 200 MARKS in 3D-mark 2000! Sure, the drivers never got revised for the Vortex2, simply because Creative bankrupted Aureal with frivoluos lawsuites. Why should I give Creative more money, so they can use it to bankrupt another company that has better products?
Second issue is the sound quality, or rather, the lack of it. My Vortex 2 wins hands down. In fact, I have some OLD ESS soundcards that, though they only support 2 speaker sound, still provide higher quality sound. They cost me $6.50 each wholesale. But for 4 speakers, you can still get ESS, and still beat Creative. I just bought a bunch of ESS cards from Comp USA for $10 each that provided 5 speaker output. Canyon 3d processors. Lots of companies sell these cards. And then theirs the Phillips Acoustic Edge, and heck, even Crytal Audio produces a chip that can at least MATCH the quality of the lowly Live. Oh, I forgot to mention Yamaha.
And in case you forgot, Live crashes computers too! Not everyones, not even mine, but a lot of people have been compalining about it. And my Vortex2 never crashes my other system. So they have no advantages whatsoever, unless you think you need the Live Drive.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine
Anonymous
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June 4, 2001 11:03:01 PM

Seeing as nForce was developed in close cooperation with Microsoft (as a part of Xbox development), I wouldn't be surprised if it was well supported in all kinds of Windows. Granted, Xbox is not supposed to run XP, but still...

Leo
June 4, 2001 11:19:44 PM

I still disagree. My original claim that the Platinum 5.1 series is not a piece of Sh!t card, or a waste of money. For the PC there is nothing like it yet. I later upgraded my card to get the live drive. I am not the biggest sound freak out there. I am more interested in the capabilities of the card than the super clarity of the sound.

I think if we all wanted the highest quality of such things on computer systems then we would all be using BX/815 chipsets, and ATI/Matrox Video cards. BX is still the most solid chipset created and those two video cards image quality trounce the GeForce line.

Here is anoter print of Nvidia getting caught with their hand in the cookie jar. <A HREF="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/19426.html" target="_new">Good ol Nvidia</A>

<A HREF="http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?IR=N&Clas..." target="_new">Chipzilla Jr at it again!</A>

Blah, Blah Blahh, Blahh, blahh blah blahh, blah blah.
June 4, 2001 11:41:19 PM

I also want to state I have absolutely no problems against Nvidia. In fact I own two GeForce line of Cards.

Blah, Blah Blahh, Blahh, blahh blah blahh, blah blah.
June 5, 2001 12:03:25 AM

Sorry bud, having used all sorts of sound cards, the live series aren't that great at all. They got lots of bells and whistles for sure but as for sound quality? Aureal wins hands down. Philips is better as well, heck I even recently purchased a zoltrix sound card that sounded better than a creative live value. Not to mention Creatives tech support has long been one of the worst in the entire hardware market. Hell, I think they run there website of a server that uses a 56k modem.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
June 5, 2001 12:15:18 AM

<font color=red>This equates to nothing people. You haven't seen a engineering sample of this so good chip set yet. And its so new I am not confident we shall see driver support in Windows XP. Can we say 4 in 1? This is another VIA in the making. If its good ill give it my praise till then I think its another VIA and trust me we shall rub it in as you have rubbed it in about the P4.</font color=red>

Lets see, isn't nvidia the one designing the x-box? I somehow fail to see any problems what so ever with driver support from Microsoft for this product. You obviously opened your mouth before you engaged your brain. The integrated sound is exactly the same as the one used in the x-box, I am sure Microsoft already has a driver for it. Seeing how microsoft wants to be able to port all the games for the pc to the x-box I am sure it is there best interest to provide the best of drivers for this chipset. And remember this chipset will only require one, yes thats right,one driver for the entire shebang, that would be the nic, graphics, audio, video, and chipset..All yo will need to do is load your operating system, get your vers.X nvidia nforce driver and away you go! Driver updates will update your entire computer ( unless you have something like a scsi card). This should be bare none the most idiot proof computer out there. The only drawback I can see is how well will it support other vieo cards. Intel is afraid right now, very afraid! I really see there only hope will be to license Nvidia to design one for them as well. Or, they can pray that ATI can manage the same feat for them. as much as I love ATI I do not think anyone dares compares the driver support of ATI to that of Nvidia.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
June 5, 2001 12:31:05 AM

What kind of fuuckin moron are you...you are hoping that intel loses money and dies down?? What about their employees and their families?? That is the most selfish thing I've ever heard. This is what's wrong with this society is people are only interested in themselves. It seems all you are worried about is yourself and the money you've spent. How shallow can you get?? Why not hope for both AMD and Intel to do well..that would make everyone happy. This is by far the most offensive post I've ever seen. What would make you say something like that? Do you ever stiop to think that people like you and me work for these types of companies??? It's not just a name "Intel" it is a corporation with thousands of employees with families. When you start to value your computer parts more than people is when you have to stop and think. Maybe you should think before you start hoping for companies to die.
June 5, 2001 12:35:21 AM

Thats right. If your going to post something dont make it personal

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
June 5, 2001 4:27:53 AM

Actually you are the [-peep-] moron. You should get off your daddy's computer. Why don't you by a car from a company that is going bankrupt so you can save those families. Why don't you buy your computer from a computer retailer that is about to go bankrupt. You doing buy based on saving families dumb ass. Why? You don't care! Hello fag boy...GET A LIFE! You are just pissed because you are an INTEL zealot follower who does not know [-peep-] and does not know hot to react now that the company that they worship is seriously threatened. Why don't not spend time on the internet so you can take care of families from other companies that are going under. Everyday that you buy something you should think about paying more money so you can support some dying company. Sound stupid. That was your point dumb ass!

It worked yesterday! :lol: 
June 5, 2001 5:07:04 AM

reeeaar! fissst fissst.
alright kittens simma down now. As a consumer we all have the right to buy what ever we want for what ever reasons we want. After all we do live in the Great United States of America (well most of us). There are good and bad sides to a company going under, or starting to go under. Less competition means the lasting companies can do what ever they want. Its called natural monopoly, also can be seen as survival of the fittest. Its not like one day *whoosh* intel will be dead. As time goes on they might lay off a batch of workers, but most of them will have skills to go on to other jobs (maybe better ones). Its gonna be a gradual thing, the people working for other companies are adults probably (especially the ones with families).
It might be a good thing to have some change, but undoubtedly it will be bad for some.
Do you think it was good at first for the United States to become its own country? nope Britain lost out a lot while others gained. Its how things are there is no need getting all squirrely about it (especially on a computer parts forum).
Bottom line is someone has something better, as always happens. If you have $100 to buy something and all of a sudden there is a better product cheaper would you not buy the better cheaper product? If you wouldn't then ask yourself why, because there might be something strange in the water where you live.
a b à CPUs
June 5, 2001 5:37:04 AM

Well, it just so happens that I do have a BX and an 815 system. And I do have both the Radeon and the GTS. The Radeon gives SLIGHTLY better image quality. DVD playback looks identicle. But the Geforce trounces the Radeon in speed. And I also have both the Vortex2 and the Live. Funny thing-the BX is supposed to perform better than the 815, but since my BX runs the Live, performance penealties of the Live make it perform worse than the 815 with the Vortex2. Go configure. I do not need these D@MN Midi connectors though.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 5, 2001 6:44:55 AM

You don't seem to understand the significance of nFORCE. It is so superior to any of the Intel or third party chipsets that it relegates them to outdated. Companies are willing to make chipsets for the P4 becuase Intel has the majority of market share and they want a piece of the pie. I don't think a VIA P4 chipset is anything to get excited about, SMP or not.
Anonymous
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June 5, 2001 8:13:50 AM

Whats the big deal of this nvidia chipset ?? Lets recap:
1) Its got integrated MX graphics.
Wow.. great.. a Geforce MX !! I mean, its nice to have in a low-end budget PC for sure, but this is not a feature you'd sell your current MB for, is it ? Especially not if you already have superior graphics (GTS/Pro/Ultra/GF3).

2) 4.2 GB/s memory bandwith. This is mostly only usefull when you use the integrated graphics. Since a Tbird can only handle 2.1 GB, having this feature with a standalone GF3 video is not going to help a lot, if anything. Have a look at P3 motherboards with DDR or RDRAM to see it doesnt help anything to have a memory bus that is way faster than your cpu fsb.

3) "superior" sound system. While the specs may seem impressive, I wont be impressed until I have actually *heard* the card. There are plenty of cards out there that do Dolby 5.1.. why should this be a better sound system ?

4) unified driver support. This is nice for newbies that dont know how to download/install drivers. But really, what is the difference to a power user ? In fact, I like to be able to choose different drivers for my southbridge, video, sound, etc. I would *not* be happy if I were forced to use a certain detonator driver version just to get my soundcard working.

5) StreamThru / Hypertransport / blahblah blah
Its only performance that counts here. Nothing indicates these marketing terms will help your Q3 experience anything.

6) DASP
Sounds like an "intelligent" L3 cache to me.. and a whopping 64 kb in size. Not sure what this will do to performance, but it might help.

Did I miss anything ? Dont get me wrong, the specs look nice and all, but this does not look like a "kill-all" motherboard to me. Yet. Maybe when I see the first benchmarks I'll revise my opinion, but until then, I see this MB as a good option for the value market, since it might be a cheaper solution than a KT133A + GF MX +SB Live 5.1.

---- Owner of the only Dell computer with a AMD chip
June 5, 2001 8:19:03 AM

I think intel just start to wake-up.There were no competion on cpu industry for many year. Northwood is just the begining of there wake-up.Chipset saga, i just fear imcompatiblity.Intel/via wont let it go without a fight that for sure.Maybe there or some change on the new chipset for via and intel.

AMD/INTEL/ATI any one would fight to the last dollars.
Honnest i think intel have the adventage due to is cash.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 5, 2001 9:36:14 AM

Wow you should change your sig to mine man. You are way more evil than me. Geese I never even wished for AMD to go out of business. Man even when I first started to post I was never as mean and disrespectful as you were. Man calm down and relax all it is a chip set that hasn't been to the real world test. I am sure you think its good but first time isn't always a winner

SPUDMUFFIN

<font color=red>Being Evil Is Good. Cause I Can Be A Prick And Get Away With It.</font color=red> :lol: 
June 5, 2001 2:04:35 PM

Soundquality is one part sound card 1000000 parts SPEAKERS, im sure the sb live and any ancient isa soundcard from the 486 days would sound the same on 10 dollar multimedia speakers most computer users probably have.(admittedly probably not ones who visit this forum however)

<----200 dollar labtech(too bad they went out of buisness) speaker system with 2 full size(no room for satelites) desktop speakers and a 3 foot tall sub woofer baby!


~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
June 5, 2001 2:44:11 PM

Quote:
I forget the name of that law where they double every so many years


<font color=green>You know what that guy said about that thing, you know whats his name from whats that place.</font color=green> :wink:

Do you know you're trying to quote some guy you're gonna hate. Its Gordon moore - Founder of *ntel.

Whats your beef with creative labs? they're good people, who manufacture quality hardware. nVidia are more of a rip-off merchant than creative labs!


<font color=red>"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and dispair!"</font color=red>
June 5, 2001 2:54:46 PM

Quote:
2) 4.2 GB/s memory bandwith. This is mostly only usefull when you use the integrated graphics. Since a Tbird can only handle 2.1 GB, having this feature with a standalone GF3 video is not going to help a lot, if anything. Have a look at P3 motherboards with DDR or RDRAM to see it doesnt help anything to have a memory bus that is way faster than your cpu fsb.

It would be useful for MP if they add the support.

<font color=blue>Keep your hands above the covers at all times!</font color=blue>
June 5, 2001 8:42:18 PM

a word of caution about the 4.2 gig bandwith with the nforce. I have yet to see any conclusive evidence that with the integrated graphics disabled the CPU to memory bus was 4.2 gigs. As a matter of fact i have heard pretty convincing arguments stateing that this is not a true dual memory bus architecure. We do still benefit from the crossbar memory controller however.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!
June 6, 2001 2:16:33 AM

Now that must be one of the most ironic things I've seen on here for a long time!!!!

-* This Space For Rent *-
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June 6, 2001 2:19:30 AM

I personally would hope that the added diversity in the market place will encourage further competition, help regulate Intel prices, encourage Via to release nore stable chipsets and drivers, enable AMD to develop newer faster products and thus ecourage Intel to do so.

End result: WE as consumers have more choice of better cheaper products. There will never be a win for us whilst one or other company is TOO dominant. This goes for graphics chips and everything...

-* This Space For Rent *-
email for application details
June 6, 2001 3:09:39 AM

First off I am actually on my own computer. Second I realize that no matter what that companies will die and people will be effected by this. Third I am not an intel zealot..I could really care less about intel or amd, but I don't think you could call intel a dying company. If you haven't noticed the whole economy is in the shiitter. I'm just extremely offended by pieces of shiit like you that hope companies die. I personally want any company that to have success in whatever field they are in. I know that some companies will fail and go bankrupt, but I would never wish that upon any company. It's obvious you are riding AMD's nuts and want them to be the best because you bought an AMD chip and think you are special for some reason. Also, don't you think if both companies were successful they would be constantly involved in a price war that would lower prices for all of us? If there is no competition prices will stay at a constant for the best chips, and the only prices you will see falling are those of out dated chips. My point was not that you should buy something from a dying company...it was that you were a coksmoker for hoping a company would die. I think you take self-interest to a whole nother level.
!