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Too many wishes! Help me decide?

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Anonymous
May 31, 2005 1:08:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Agathon-Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha has breached the castle, waded slowly through
Valley of the Dead, and done rather well for herself all through the
game. She scored two magic lamps in the Mines, one of which was used
on the obligatory silver dragon scale mail. It took ten levels for the
first scroll of ID to show up, and 16 for the first altar that could be
converted, but after that things went actually rather smoothly.

Her notables are:
A full set of blessed, -proofed, +4 or greater ascension equipment,
bringing her AC to -38. She's got magic resistance, cancellation,
reflection, the whole save-my-life-please shebang.
Ring of Slow Digestion
The Eye, of course. I love using Finger of Death as a standard weapon.
Magicbane at +2. This is her ascension weapon, and I refuse any
replacement whatsoever. Screw Frost Brand.
The Master Key of Thievery
Magic lamp - this I'm saving as a last resort.
WoW, 2 wishes plus the last zap left - which brings up a happy dilemma.

She's genocided all liches and their like and master mind flayers. Her
gear is enchanted to the breaking point. She knows Magic Missile,
Fireball, Cone of Cold, the Finger, plus plenty of useful sidelines.
(She's missing the Identify spell, but I thought about this and decided
she just doesn't need it now - I've been smart about keeping stuff
un-IDed until I had a blessed scroll and a big pile of un-IDed stuff.
She's even got a helm of opposite alignment for the Astral Plane, when
I feel like being cheesy about things. Aside from teleportitis, which
she'll track down some nymphs for any time now, she's set for
ascension, with a total of 4 wishes at her disposal. I've been trying
to ascend a wizard for ages now, and thus have thrown any semblance of
conduct out the window.

So... save them? Four spare wishes (plus the one that needs to be
wrested out) is no mean advantage. But is there something that could
bump her chances of ascension up from "pretty darn good" to
"ridiculously assurable"?

More about : wishes decide

Anonymous
May 31, 2005 4:21:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Saving the Lamp: Gonna do that already, methinks. I have the Light
spell, but I'd rather not cast it over and over again.

Magic Markers: Probably going to use one more wish on a magic marker,
for whatever reason - nurse dancing, +oPolymorph, whatever apparently
needs to happen in my game.

Free Action: Doesn't seem to be worth a wish, but I'll have to think
about what bad things could happen due to not having it. Free Action
was never a problem in any other really good game of mine. (Well, aside
from YASDs involving floating eyes, of course.)

Conflict: Ooh. Good idea. But rings seem to pop up rather commonly,
and I've always seen at least two rings of conflict in
Gehennom-and-beyond games of mine. Apparently they're rather common
(for me, at least).

Pets: Eh. They've only really been helpful for me in the early game;
after that they tend to slow things down more than anything.

Magic Mapping, a spare wand of death, lots of teleport/digging wands,
lots of !oFH: Got 'em already. (yay!)

Last Resort Wishing: I worded it badly. A 'last resort wish' for me is
one more wish before jumping into a bad situation. Generally it's for
a rubber chicken. I figure if I'm in a situation where a wish is the
only thing that'll save me from certain doom, I made a mistake earlier
on.

Cursing: Magicbane is my Friend. But I keep holy water spare and safe
just in case.

Polypiling/Pudding Farming: Can someone direct me to spoilers/guides on
these? As long as I'm committed to ascending this wizard By Any Means
Necessary, I may as well read up on the dirty tricks available to me.
I've only polypiled incompetently, and pudding farming I've never
tried.

Thanks for all the advice so far. Luckily I'm "working" right now, so
I won't have a chance to screw up horribly until I get home. *grin*
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 5:50:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

wrote on 31 May 2005 09:08:59 -0700:
> So... save them? Four spare wishes (plus the one that needs to be
> wrested out) is no mean advantage. But is there something that could
> bump her chances of ascension up from "pretty darn good" to
> "ridiculously assurable"?

Presumably you've maxed your luck. Wish for a magic marker and write a
spellbook of polymorph (if the marker has less than 59 charges this could
fail so be warned) and then polypile stuff. This should yield:
- ring of conflict
- spellbooks of ID, magic mapping, cure sickness
- alchemizable potions
- maybe some scrolls of genocide and charging
- maybe a magic marker or two
- maybe jumping boots plus spellbook of haste self; this is way better
than speed boots

Then spend the remaining wishes on cursed magic markers and reverse
genocide wraiths to max your level. Genocide ; also.


I'll recommend against most of the other wishes suggested in this thread:

Free action is nice but not worth a wish. Conflict _is_ worth a wish,
but since you can get it from polypiling, wishing would be wasteful. The
game throws tons of rings at you, and by the late game they are nearly
all polyfodder.

You'll be stronger than any pets, but if the RNG gives you a magic
whistle and you want to play around, polypile or write a spellbook of
charm monster.

Xornifying yourself is risky for a variety of reasons. Don't do it.

Wizards can't two-weapon.

Wishing for Vorpal is likely to fail (depends on how many artifacts are
already in the game), likely to be pointless (it probably won't be
generated on Astral), and utterly unnecessary (pay attention on Astral).

The cockatrice is your friend. Do not genocide him.

Genociding trolls is pointless.

If the polypile gives you a wand of death, that's nice. If not, you can
wait for the one Orcus has.


--
"Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance
Related resources
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 7:22:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1117555739.208527.242200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
<delcantheodd@msn.com> wrote:
>Agathon-Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha has breached the castle, waded slowly through
>Valley of the Dead, and done rather well for herself all through the
>game. She scored two magic lamps in the Mines, one of which was used
>on the obligatory silver dragon scale mail.

Only obligatory for wizards. Virtually everyone else would wish for
gray for the magic resistance.

> It took ten levels for the
>first scroll of ID to show up, and 16 for the first altar that could be
>converted, but after that things went actually rather smoothly.

ID and holy water. Keys to the game.


>Her notables are:
>A full set of blessed, -proofed, +4 or greater ascension equipment,
>bringing her AC to -38. She's got magic resistance, cancellation,
>reflection, the whole save-my-life-please shebang.

Excellent. If you have time and money, why not get protection too?

>Ring of Slow Digestion

I used to worry about it. But I find that between the huge amount of
meat around and the fact the stone to flesh can keep any spellcaster
loaded in food, that it really isn't a critical issue.

>The Eye, of course.

Of course. Great for zooming back to stashes.

> I love using Finger of Death as a standard weapon.

Tres costly from a power standpoint. Also it gets triple digits worse when
carrying the amulet. I prefer a fully charged /oD.

>Magicbane at +2. This is her ascension weapon, and I refuse any
>replacement whatsoever. Screw Frost Brand.

Actually I was going to suggest another choice. More later.

>The Master Key of Thievery

What's the point of this gem?

>Magic lamp - this I'm saving as a last resort.

Cool. No need to waste it. It's also excellent as a permanent light source.

>WoW, 2 wishes plus the last zap left - which brings up a happy dilemma.

That you have a bunch of wishes.

>She's genocided all liches and their like and master mind flayers. Her
>gear is enchanted to the breaking point. She knows Magic Missile,
>Fireball, Cone of Cold, the Finger, plus plenty of useful sidelines.

Cure sickness?
Charm Monster?
Stone to flesh?

The "useful sidelines" become critical in the end game.

>(She's missing the Identify spell, but I thought about this and decided
>she just doesn't need it now - I've been smart about keeping stuff
>un-IDed until I had a blessed scroll and a big pile of un-IDed stuff.

That's fine. You get to a point that you know everything you need to anyway.
I find that +oID is a convenience.


>She's even got a helm of opposite alignment for the Astral Plane, when
>I feel like being cheesy about things.

I've been lucky to find the right altar both times I've graced the Astral.

> Aside from teleportitis, which
>she'll track down some nymphs for any time now,

Leprachauns and tengus. Especially tengus because they also have a shot at
giving TC too. Wizards get TC at 17th level IIRC.

> she's set for
>ascension, with a total of 4 wishes at her disposal.

Not quite.

> I've been trying to ascend a wizard for ages now,
> and thus have thrown any semblance of conduct out the window.

Wizard was my 1st ascension.

>So... save them?

Keep two in the wand handy. Keep the magic lamp for light. So you really
can afford to spend one right now.

> Four spare wishes (plus the one that needs to be
>wrested out) is no mean advantage.

I counted 3 readily available. Did I miss something?

> But is there something that could
>bump her chances of ascension up from "pretty darn good" to
>"ridiculously assurable"?

I would spend a wish dealing with what I consider the toughest monster in
the game: Archons! Between the radiant stuns, curses, and monster summoning
they can make your life on the Planes miserable. I always kit out to deal
with them.

You have MB for curse catching. The stuns are irratating. Personally I
prefer to see, so I wish up the Eyes of the Overworld if I'm neutral.
If not then SunSword is a possibility. But you can't wield both MB and
SS at the same time.

The time honored tradition of blinding oneself is also workable.

Finally the best way to deal with them is to convert them into pets. They
stop attacking you and beat the hell out of everyone else. But with
the same MR and refelction that you have it's a tough task.

Scrolls could be useful. Maybe you can wish up an extra magic marker to
make scrolls of taming.

BAJ
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 11:05:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Tue, 31 May 2005 delcantheodd@msn.com wrote:

> Agathon-Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha has breached the castle, waded slowly through
> Valley of the Dead, and done rather well for herself all through the
> game. She scored two magic lamps in the Mines, one of which was used
> on the obligatory silver dragon scale mail. It took ten levels for the
> first scroll of ID to show up, and 16 for the first altar that could be
> converted, but after that things went actually rather smoothly.
>
> Her notables are:
> A full set of blessed, -proofed, +4 or greater ascension equipment,
> bringing her AC to -38. She's got magic resistance, cancellation,
> reflection, the whole save-my-life-please shebang.
> Ring of Slow Digestion
> The Eye, of course. I love using Finger of Death as a standard weapon.
> Magicbane at +2. This is her ascension weapon, and I refuse any
> replacement whatsoever. Screw Frost Brand.
> The Master Key of Thievery
> Magic lamp - this I'm saving as a last resort.
> WoW, 2 wishes plus the last zap left - which brings up a happy dilemma.
>
> She's genocided all liches and their like and master mind flayers. Her
> gear is enchanted to the breaking point. She knows Magic Missile,
> Fireball, Cone of Cold, the Finger, plus plenty of useful sidelines.
> (She's missing the Identify spell, but I thought about this and decided
> she just doesn't need it now - I've been smart about keeping stuff
> un-IDed until I had a blessed scroll and a big pile of un-IDed stuff.
> She's even got a helm of opposite alignment for the Astral Plane, when
> I feel like being cheesy about things. Aside from teleportitis, which
> she'll track down some nymphs for any time now, she's set for
> ascension, with a total of 4 wishes at her disposal. I've been trying
> to ascend a wizard for ages now, and thus have thrown any semblance of
> conduct out the window.
>
> So... save them? Four spare wishes (plus the one that needs to be
> wrested out) is no mean advantage. But is there something that could
> bump her chances of ascension up from "pretty darn good" to
> "ridiculously assurable"?

1/ Save one magic lamp. Permanent light source is more valuable than any
wish in Gehennom (especially when you have tons of whishes at hand).

2/ Magic markers can always be useful (nurse dancing, genociding ; when
entering water, confuse taming in Rodney's zoo)

3/ Do you have free action ? Conflict ?

4/ Pets. Blessed figurine of an Archon is always funny (that is except in
10% of cases, of course).

Appart from Id which is useless if you've ided everything usefull and
genocided mind flayers, spellbook of magic mapping is also nice in
Gehennom.

Poly+poly control (+unchanging) can be funny too (being a Xorn is surely a
funny way to cross Gehennom).

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 11:06:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

delcantheodd@msn.com writes:

[ascensionable wizard]
> Her notables are:
> A full set of blessed, -proofed, +4 or greater ascension equipment,
> bringing her AC to -38. She's got magic resistance, cancellation,
> reflection, the whole save-my-life-please shebang.

She's got cancellation as an intrinsic? ;-)

> Ring of Slow Digestion
> The Eye, of course. I love using Finger of Death as a standard weapon.
> Magicbane at +2. This is her ascension weapon, and I refuse any
> replacement whatsoever.

Dual-wielding with a chrysknife could improve performance. Maybe.
Didn't check the numbers.

> Magic lamp - this I'm saving as a last resort.

Never save a magic lamp as last resort. It takes turns and
turns of rubbing until you get your stuff, which usually is
too late for a last resort.

[Wishes]
> So... save them? Four spare wishes (plus the one that needs to be
> wrested out) is no mean advantage. But is there something that could
> bump her chances of ascension up from "pretty darn good" to
> "ridiculously assurable"?

Wish. For. Vorpal. Blade. Not because *you* need it,
but because some people (gnashing of teeth) can tell
unpleasant stories about seemingly harmless role monsters
on astral chopping off your head with their first strike
of Vorpal Blade. Well, maybe Gnash could have avoided it
by reading each of the 10^6 lines you get on Astral each
round..

Genociding:
First, one can consider genociding footrices. Yes, some
monsters can pick their corpses up and wield them. If you
have a lizard corpse in main inv, it's not an instant kill,
but chances are you might just not notice until it's too
late (there are no sound-effects for getting petrified yet).
The most annoying place is air with all those pesky trolls
and air elementals; maybe wiping out Olog-Hai could be
worth the effort. In order to avoid embarassingly stupid
deaths, it might also be worthwile to wipe out ;s, since
sometimes one careless step towards water can do you in.
(Or poly into a vampire lord, but then you have a HP problem
until you nurse him up.)

Besides that, I'd say you can wish for a blessed figurine
of a purple worm for some archon-related fun, make sure
you have some means of confusion and scrolls of taming.
Buys some time and is usually effective in shielding you
from one or two riders.

Also, it's good to have a /oDeath as a fallback, several
potions of full healing at disposal, some assurance against
curse-related problems (gauntlets, rings, BoH), fireball
and icestorm as crowd control, magic mapping, lots of wands
of teleport and digging for the race, and a ring of free
action for astral (the possibility of getting paralyzed while
near a rider might be remote, but such things happen).

Oh, and just if you have to kill some time and love
polypiling and/or pudding farming: Rings of increase
damage and protection, if eadible, are useful.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 11:40:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> Genociding:
> First, one can consider genociding footrices. Yes, some
> monsters can pick their corpses up and wield them. If you
> have a lizard corpse in main inv, it's not an instant kill,
> but chances are you might just not notice until it's too
> late (there are no sound-effects for getting petrified yet).

According to my copy of the nethack 3.4.3 source there are:
Quoth timeout.c:
/* He is being petrified - dialogue by inmet!tower */
static NEARDATA const char * const stoned_texts[] = {
"You are slowing down.", /* 5 */
"Your limbs are stiffening.", /* 4 */
"Your limbs have turned to stone.", /* 3 */
"You have turned to stone.", /* 2 */
"You are a statue." /* 1 */
};


Greetings,
Benjamin

--
____ _ _ ____ _ _ _ _____ __ __
/ ___|| | / \ / ___|| | | ( ) ____| \/ |
\___ \| | / _ \ \___ \| |_| |/| _| | |\/| |
___) | |___ / ___ \ ___) | _ | | |___| | | |
|____/|_____/_/ \_\____/|_| |_| |_____|_| |_|
play online: telnet://slashem.crash-override.net
view scores: http://slashem.crash-override.net
watch deaths: irc://irc.freenode.net#slashem
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 1:50:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> Polypiling/Pudding Farming: Can someone direct me to spoilers/guides on
> these? As long as I'm committed to ascending this wizard By Any Means
> Necessary, I may as well read up on the dirty tricks available to me.
> I've only polypiled incompetently, and pudding farming I've never
> tried.

ANY means? Really ANY means?

Well, here goes:
http://scavenger.homeip.net/farmbot/PuddingFarmingHOWTO


Greetings,
Benjamin

--
/\___ Stendhal
@@@@@@@@@@@ O \ An OSS MMORPG game
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@____/ ------------------
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 1) Enter the game
@ @@@@@@@@@@@@ 2) Raise sheep
|| || 3) ...
~~ ~~ 4) PROFIT!
http://stendhal.ombres.ambre.net/
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 2:15:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Tue, 31 May 2005 delcantheodd@msn.com wrote:

> Free Action: Doesn't seem to be worth a wish, but I'll have to think
> about what bad things could happen due to not having it. Free Action
> was never a problem in any other really good game of mine. (Well, aside
> from YASDs involving floating eyes, of course.)
>
> Conflict: Ooh. Good idea. But rings seem to pop up rather commonly,
> and I've always seen at least two rings of conflict in
> Gehennom-and-beyond games of mine. Apparently they're rather common
> (for me, at least).

Yes both of them can be quite easily obtained via polypiling or pudding
farming, so they're probably not really worth a wish. Do not neglect free
action, hitting with a wielded potion of Paralysis is a nice way to deal
with Demogorgon (and other big bad guys)

> Pets: Eh. They've only really been helpful for me in the early game;
> after that they tend to slow things down more than anything.

Hum. Did you ever had a pet Archon ? That really kills nearly everything
(until a purple worm eat it, of course). And if you have a magic whistle
(usually not too hard to find), pet management is really nice.

In my only ascencion, I had an army of Olog-ai and troll around me. Even
if they do not do the killing, they at least protect you from monsters
without blocking your path. Really useful during the run.

By the way, do not save wands of digging for the run. Dig your path out
*before* killing Rodney.

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 9:17:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Believe it or not, 100 potions of gain level may be very useful (: I've
only tried it with smaller amounts, but it seems to work on the lower
levels.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 1:23:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <apd5r7b9zg.fsf@fb04349.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>, Jakob
Creutzig wrote:
> delcantheodd@msn.com writes:

> [ascensionable wizard]
>> Her notables are:
>> A full set of blessed, -proofed, +4 or greater ascension equipment,
>> bringing her AC to -38. She's got magic resistance, cancellation,
>> reflection, the whole save-my-life-please shebang.

> She's got cancellation as an intrinsic? ;-)

Probably (s)he meant magic cancellation of 3.

>> Ring of Slow Digestion
>> The Eye, of course. I love using Finger of Death as a standard weapon.
>> Magicbane at +2. This is her ascension weapon, and I refuse any
>> replacement whatsoever.

> Dual-wielding with a chrysknife could improve performance. Maybe.
> Didn't check the numbers.

Wizards are restricted in #twoweapon.

--
Panu
"You haven't really been anywhere until you've got back home",
Twoflower in "The Light Fantastic"
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 2:30:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

delcantheodd@msn.com wrote:
>
> Agathon-Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha has breached the castle, waded slowly through
> Valley of the Dead, and done rather well for herself all through the
> game. She scored two magic lamps in the Mines, one of which was used
> on the obligatory silver dragon scale mail. It took ten levels for the
> first scroll of ID to show up, and 16 for the first altar that could be
> converted, but after that things went actually rather smoothly.
>
> I love using Finger of Death as a standard weapon.
> Magicbane at +2. This is her ascension weapon, and I refuse any
> replacement whatsoever. Screw Frost Brand.

Stuff that doesn't need wishes: You may not want any other
primary weapon and attack spells are great, but there's
still nothing wrong with having your quiver filled with
about a dozen heavily enchanted fireproof elven daggers.
An Expert at dagger will thrown so many in a turn they
are competitive with spells other than FoD. And throwing
daggers doesn't cost any manna.

> She knows Magic Missile,
> Fireball, Cone of Cold, the Finger, plus plenty of useful sidelines.
> (She's missing the Identify spell, but I thought about this and decided
> she just doesn't need it now - I've been smart about keeping stuff
> un-IDed until I had a blessed scroll and a big pile of un-IDed stuff.

ID spell rules even for Valks.

> So... save them? Four spare wishes (plus the one that needs to be
> wrested out) is no mean advantage. But is there something that could
> bump her chances of ascension up from "pretty darn good" to
> "ridiculously assurable"?

How's your hoard going of items that are specifically
for the planes? Each level has an item you might want
so you can get to the portal to the next level. Once I
learned the list of things to hoard, I started to make
sure I had them well before I find the vibrating square.
Especially gold detection. I reread the spoilers on
that every time I get ready to go for the amulet.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 2:50:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

delcantheodd@msn.com writes:

> Free Action: Doesn't seem to be worth a wish, but I'll have to think
> about what bad things could happen due to not having it.

No, I didn't mean to suggest you should waste wishes for that.
Such things are gained by patiently collecting rings, kicking
sinks and/or polypiling useless rings.

> Pets: Eh. They've only really been helpful for me in the early game;
> after that they tend to slow things down more than anything.

Pets in the end-game are more for fun purposes. But keep in
mind that archons, while having reflection (and thus don't
fear the finger), are swallowed by a (preferrably speeded)
purple worm in no time, hence they can actually help you.
[The fun part about purple worms is that monsters usually
don't aim their attacks on a pet unless this pet successfully
attacked them in the same round. Since a successfull attack
by a purple worm is often followed by a swallow, which means
instakill for the monster, they tend to be quite helpful.
Of course, they don't mix well with conflict, since then they
are attacked and taken down fast.] It is wise to summon the worm
when already on astral plane, since it is a pain to drag them
along. A magic whistle is almost mandatory, of course.

Btw, it just came to me that you don't need to wish for a
figurine. It's a much better use of ressources to read
a c?oG, choose purple worms and cast charm or read taming.

Hmmh.. Seems almost like the way to go for a pacifist on astral.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 2:51:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Panu Lahtinen <pnuu@iki.fi> writes:

> > Dual-wielding with a chrysknife could improve performance. Maybe.
> > Didn't check the numbers.
>
> Wizards are restricted in #twoweapon.

Of course, I somehow confused wizards and tourists here.
Sorry for that.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 4:02:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig <creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:
>Pets in the end-game are more for fun purposes. But keep in
>mind that archons, while having reflection (and thus don't
>fear the finger), are swallowed by a (preferrably speeded)
>purple worm in no time, hence they can actually help you.

You need to let your purple worm gain three levels of experience before
it will attempt to eat Archons other than under the influence of
conflict.

This may not take very long on Astral, of course :) 
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
"Bigots leave a stench wherever they have been
It's four parts holy incense and six parts gasoline"
-- Rome Burns, "Catharsis"
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 6:38:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"M. K." <koytchev@gmail.com> writes:

[spending wishes]
> Believe it or not, 100 potions of gain level may be very useful (:

You won't get 100 potions except in wizmode.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 8:01:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Byron A Jeff wrote:
> In article <1117555739.208527.242200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> <delcantheodd@msn.com> wrote:
> >Agathon-Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha has breached the castle, waded slowly through
> >Valley of the Dead, and done rather well for herself all through the
> >game. She scored two magic lamps in the Mines, one of which was used
> >on the obligatory silver dragon scale mail.
>
> Only obligatory for wizards. Virtually everyone else would wish for
> gray for the magic resistance.

I disagree, the only tiem I ever end up wearing GDSM is if I encounter
an early gray dragon who leaves behind scales, if Im going to wish, its
always for SDSM. As far as I know, the only other ways to get
reflection are through wearing an amulet (extra hunger, and no spot for
AoLS), wearing a shield (heavy, cant #twoweapon / wield two handed
weapon, and interferes with spellcasting), polying into a (baby) silver
dragon (somewhat impractical), and wielding the Longbow of Diana (very
impractical).

Where as there are many ways of obtaining MR, therefore I always go for
SDSM. Also, I find in the early game (if I get an early wish),
reflection is more important than MR

Thanks,

Marky Mark
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 11:29:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1117666876.741288.307850@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Marky Mark <mdmota@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
-
-
-Byron A Jeff wrote:
-> In article <1117555739.208527.242200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
-> <delcantheodd@msn.com> wrote:
-> >Agathon-Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha has breached the castle, waded slowly through
-> >Valley of the Dead, and done rather well for herself all through the
-> >game. She scored two magic lamps in the Mines, one of which was used
-> >on the obligatory silver dragon scale mail.
->
-> Only obligatory for wizards. Virtually everyone else would wish for
-> gray for the magic resistance.
-
-I disagree, the only tiem I ever end up wearing GDSM is if I encounter
-an early gray dragon who leaves behind scales, if Im going to wish, its
-always for SDSM. As far as I know, the only other ways to get
-reflection are through wearing an amulet (extra hunger, and no spot for
-AoLS), wearing a shield (heavy, cant #twoweapon / wield two handed
-weapon, and interferes with spellcasting), polying into a (baby) silver
-dragon (somewhat impractical), and wielding the Longbow of Diana (very
-impractical).
-
-Where as there are many ways of obtaining MR, therefore I always go for
-SDSM. Also, I find in the early game (if I get an early wish),
-reflection is more important than MR

We all think differently. For me it's summaraized in two words:

Polymorph Trap

Also there's is a 50/50 shot of getting AoR in Sokoban.

I guess different players have different thoughts on it. I think we can
both agree that the two of them are essential to game play.

BAJ
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 12:11:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

After going to <http://tinyurl.com/2tnqw&gt;
Jakob Creutzig <creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote

>"M. K." <koytchev@gmail.com> writes:
>
>[spending wishes]
>> Believe it or not, 100 potions of gain level may be very useful (:
>
>You won't get 100 potions except in wizmode.

<rot13>
Vs lbh qvc n cbgvba bs yrivgngvba vagb n cbgvba bs rayvtugrazrag lbh unir n
gjb-guveqf punapr bs vg orpbzvat n cbgvba bs tnva yriry.
</rot13>
--
no, i didn't forget the 'F's
http://www.geocities.com/jerk_o2002
http://www.geocities.com/nameless_mod
-My Diablo 2 Mod
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/bunny.php
-My theme song
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 1:24:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:
>
> She's got cancellation as an intrinsic? ;-)

z - a +0 long sword (weapon in hand)
A - an uncursed scroll of enchant weapon

read A

"Your long sword glows blue for a moment and then fades."

z - a +0 long sword (weapon in hand)


Janis
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 9:58:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <apis0y8d5p.fsf@fb04349.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>,
Jakob Creutzig <creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:

> "M. K." <koytchev@gmail.com> writes:
>
> [spending wishes]
> > Believe it or not, 100 potions of gain level may be very useful (:
>
> You won't get 100 potions except in wizmode.
>
> Best,
> Jakob


It's not difficult to come up with a hundred potions of gain
level from pudding farming, just tedious.

Cheers,
Art

--
Art Willis
nhplayer@trantor.nospam.com Despam to reply
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 10:46:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Doug Freyburger wrote:
> delcantheodd@msn.com wrote:
> > I love using Finger of Death as a standard weapon.
> > Magicbane at +2. This is her ascension weapon, and I refuse any
> > replacement whatsoever. Screw Frost Brand.
>
> Stuff that doesn't need wishes: You may not want any other
> primary weapon and attack spells are great, but there's
> still nothing wrong with having your quiver filled with
> about a dozen heavily enchanted fireproof elven daggers.

Agreed, but I would say you should go for silver daggers, since you
could probably scrounge up a few dozen elven daggers without wishing.
On the other hand, there aren't likely to be more than two or three
silver daggers in your entire dungeon (unless farming), so they are
worth wishing for.

A small stack of +5 silver daggers cen really help you out when you
have a horde of demons/ vampires piling up on you. Nothing to stop you
having a load of +9 elfy daggers as well, if that extra bit of damage
against non-silver-haters really matters to you.
June 2, 2005 11:51:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <d7l21a$ni7$1@online.de>,
Janis Papanagnou <Janis_Papanagnou@hotmail.com> wrote:

>z - a +0 long sword (weapon in hand)
>A - an uncursed scroll of enchant weapon
>
>read A
>
>"Your long sword glows blue for a moment and then fades."
>z - a +0 long sword (weapon in hand)


Hmm.

I'd have to restrain myself from punching the monitor if the game did
that to me.
June 2, 2005 11:53:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <Pine.LNX.4.51.0505312211150.9413@hagen.loria.fr>,
Jym <moyen@loria.fr> wrote:

>Hum. Did you ever had a pet Archon ?

A Ki-Rin is even more fun.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 5:29:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

jerk-o <jerk-o@yomomma.org> writes:

> After going to <http://tinyurl.com/2tnqw&gt;
> Jakob Creutzig <creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote
>
> >"M. K." <koytchev@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> >[spending wishes]
> >> Believe it or not, 100 potions of gain level may be very useful (:
> >
> >You won't get 100 potions except in wizmode.
>
> <rot13>
> Vs lbh qvc n cbgvba bs yrivgngvba vagb n cbgvba bs rayvtugrazrag lbh unir n
> gjb-guveqf punapr bs vg orpbzvat n cbgvba bs tnva yriry.
> </rot13>

So what? We were talking about wishing. Wishing takes numbers
for stackable items, but will not grant you a hundred of a kind,
but a lower number instead. Usually you're lucky to get three
of a kind.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 7:26:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Update time on my game: A small pudding-farming attempt has fetched me
a +oPolymorph, and suddenly I have absolutely no need for magic markers
- I just poly blank/useless scrolls into whatever I need. I've got a
small pile each of taming, gold detection, charging... and I've
replaced a plain ol' set of leather gloves with Dex gauntlets. Hooray
for poly-piling! Now that I've ascended twice while unconsciously
pulling off the no-poly conduct, I figure this time around I should
throw no-poly straight out the window.

On the Finger: No, it's not my ACTUAL primary weapon. (Heck, I'm
currently timed out with it, and I don't really feel the need to
re-memorize it. *grin*) I just use it when I'm impatient or otherwise
in a hurry to kill indiscriminately. My real primary is Magicbane
followed closely by Magic Missile for the real damage.

Items for the Planes:
In general: Scrolls of gold detection, crystal ball, check.
Earth: Wands of digging, blindfold, check.
Fire: Cone of cold spell, wands of cold, ring of levitation, check.
Plane of Fire's never actually pained me too badly, it's just been a
very minor hassle dodging the locals to get to the portal.
Air: Boots of speed, ring of levitation, wand of teleportation, check.
Plane of Air for me has always been a little tight, but never too
threatening. Air elementals always get teleported away.
Water: Levitation again, check.
Astral: Conflict - working on it. Multiple wands of death and
teleportation, helm of opposite alignment, free action, check.

The only think I can think of that I'm missing is the Ring of Conflict,
which I'm slowly poly-ing for.

On a side note, I wished up the Master Key for the Planes - it halves
physical damage, which is something I would much enjoy.

Elven Daggers: I hadn't thought about this much... but I keep hearing
about multiple thrown, heavily enchanted daggers being frighteningly
powerful. I think I'll try this. In my two years of playing, I've
only come across a single silver dagger - the extra demon damage is all
well and good, but demons never pose too big a problem for me. Anyone
less than Demogorgon I'll just cone of cold or beat to death, and a
Demogorgon encounter warrants a wish for a cockatrice corpse.

-Yes, I meant magic cancellation 3, you pedants. *grin* Actual
cancellation would probably be a dubious intrinsic.

-Archon: Well, as long as I'm covering absolutely all my bases... heck,
I'll try to rustle one up. I guess I can blow a wish on SOMEthing.
And I can certainly go back and dig up some of the better armors, a
silver saber, shield of reflection, etc. to pimp him out.

As for the actual 4 wishes... I haven't used any yet. And with my
success with polymorph, the list of things I've wanted via wishing is
shrinking. My good options are almost all simply for unnecessary
advantage, more wants than needs:

-Blessed figurine of an Archon - so far, my most likely next wish.
I'll get together the equipment needed to make him scarily powerful.
---If I'm feeling really decadent, I might just wish up Sunsword for
him too.
-Wand of Death - I've got two, which is nice, but hey, three's a charm.
-Cursed scrolls of genocide - for nurse dancing/wraith feasting. But
these I could poly up.
-AoLS - There'll be one in Vlad's stash, but a spare would be nice.

And... well, shoot. I can't even think of anything else to wish for
that I couldn't get through patience. Any ideas?
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 8:35:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1117751174.112322.240050@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
delcantheodd@msn.com wrote:

> Update time on my game: A small pudding-farming attempt has fetched me
> a +oPolymorph, and suddenly I have absolutely no need for magic markers
> - I just poly blank/useless scrolls into whatever I need. I've got a
> small pile each of taming, gold detection, charging... and I've
> replaced a plain ol' set of leather gloves with Dex gauntlets. Hooray
> for poly-piling! Now that I've ascended twice while unconsciously
> pulling off the no-poly conduct, I figure this time around I should
> throw no-poly straight out the window.
>
> On the Finger: No, it's not my ACTUAL primary weapon. (Heck, I'm
> currently timed out with it, and I don't really feel the need to
> re-memorize it. *grin*) I just use it when I'm impatient or otherwise
> in a hurry to kill indiscriminately. My real primary is Magicbane
> followed closely by Magic Missile for the real damage.
>
> Items for the Planes:
> In general: Scrolls of gold detection, crystal ball, check.
> Earth: Wands of digging, blindfold, check.
> Fire: Cone of cold spell, wands of cold, ring of levitation, check.
> Plane of Fire's never actually pained me too badly, it's just been a
> very minor hassle dodging the locals to get to the portal.
> Air: Boots of speed, ring of levitation, wand of teleportation, check.
> Plane of Air for me has always been a little tight, but never too
> threatening. Air elementals always get teleported away.
> Water: Levitation again, check.
> Astral: Conflict - working on it. Multiple wands of death and
> teleportation, helm of opposite alignment, free action, check.
>
> The only think I can think of that I'm missing is the Ring of Conflict,
> which I'm slowly poly-ing for.
>
> On a side note, I wished up the Master Key for the Planes - it halves
> physical damage, which is something I would much enjoy.
>
> Elven Daggers: I hadn't thought about this much... but I keep hearing
> about multiple thrown, heavily enchanted daggers being frighteningly
> powerful. I think I'll try this.
>
> [Snippage ....]
>
As long as you're polypiling, take the biggest stack or weapons you
can come by, uusally either arrows, darts, or crossbow bolts, cancel
all the odd ball ones to make the biggest possible stack, then enchant
them up to +7 and fooproof them. The drain life spell is useful here
in case you end up at +6. Divide the stack into 3 to 6 piles,
depending on how lucky you feel, and try enchanting each stack
one more time. You should get at least one stack of +8. If you wind
up with enough +8's, repeat to get some +9's. Your goal is to get
50 or so blessed fooproof +8 (or hopefully +9) foos. Throw these
into the poly pile one at a time with a limit of about 4 assorted
weapons in a single pile. Cherry pick the results. You should easily
get a dozen +8 daggters, 5 or 6 +8 elven daggers, and maybe even a +8
silver dagger or two. Not to mention a silver saber, long sword, war
hammer, mace, or what have you.
>
> And... well, shoot. I can't even think of anything else to wish for
> that I couldn't get through patience. Any ideas?
>

Cheers,
Art


--
Art Willis
nhplayer@trantor.nospam.com Despam to reply
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 11:26:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

james wrote:
> In article <d7l21a$ni7$1@online.de>,
> Janis Papanagnou <Janis_Papanagnou@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>z - a +0 long sword (weapon in hand)
>>A - an uncursed scroll of enchant weapon
>>
>>read A
>>
>>"Your long sword glows blue for a moment and then fades."
>>z - a +0 long sword (weapon in hand)
>
> Hmm.
>
> I'd have to restrain myself from punching the monitor if the game did
> that to me.

It could be worse...

'look'

You see here a blessed scroll of enchant weapon.

'pickup'

A - an uncursed scroll of paper


Janis
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 11:37:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, Art Willis wrote:

> In article <apis0y8d5p.fsf@fb04349.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>,
> Jakob Creutzig <creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:
>
> > "M. K." <koytchev@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > [spending wishes]
> > > Believe it or not, 100 potions of gain level may be very useful (:
> >
> > You won't get 100 potions except in wizmode.
>
>
> It's not difficult to come up with a hundred potions of gain
> level from pudding farming, just tedious.

As the title of the thread indicate, the OP was speaking about *whishes*.
You won't get 100 potions of GL with afew *wishes* except in wizmode.

Whishes and pudding farming are too completely different things.

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 1:40:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Marky Mark" <mdmota@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> I disagree, the only tiem I ever end up wearing GDSM is if I encounter
> an early gray dragon who leaves behind scales, if Im going to wish, its
> always for SDSM. As far as I know, the only other ways to get
> reflection are through wearing an amulet (extra hunger, and no spot for
> AoLS), wearing a shield (heavy, cant #twoweapon / wield two handed
> weapon, and interferes with spellcasting), polying into a (baby) silver
> dragon (somewhat impractical), and wielding the Longbow of Diana (very
> impractical).
>
> Where as there are many ways of obtaining MR,

These being? AFAIK the only options are GDSM, a CoMR (can't wear an
oilskin cloak), polying into a gray dragon, wielding Magicbane (not very
practical for anyone who is able to use a proper artifact), and carrying
either your own Quest artifact (some classes only, may be stolen) or
someone else's (hard to get).

Richard
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 5:25:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 2 Jun 2005 delcantheodd@msn.com wrote:

> -Blessed figurine of an Archon - so far, my most likely next wish.
> I'll get together the equipment needed to make him scarily powerful.
> ---If I'm feeling really decadent, I might just wish up Sunsword for
> him too.

Archon are always generated with either Sunsword or Demonbane, both being
good in Gehennom.
You may want to top-enchant it (else he will pick up any better enchanted
weapon). Beware of the blast while wielding it... You can disarm you pet
with a bullwhip.

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 1:31:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Minor update: Well, there's another potential wish eliminated, Vorpal
Blade turned up randomly in Gehennom. I think the RNG is aligning with
me.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 3:49:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

delcantheodd@msn.com writes:

> On the Finger: No, it's not my ACTUAL primary weapon. (Heck, I'm
> currently timed out with it, and I don't really feel the need to
> re-memorize it. *grin*) I just use it when I'm impatient or otherwise
> in a hurry to kill indiscriminately. My real primary is Magicbane
> followed closely by Magic Missile for the real damage.

The Finger of Death is very convenient for Rodney and occasional
panic situations. But the Magic missile spell does ridiculous amounts
of damage against all monsters, except against the very few that have
magic resistance or reflection, when cast by a level 30 maxed out
character. For a level 30 Mage, there simply is no serious enemy
except your own carelessness.

(30 is no absolute value -- a high level will do.)

-- Johan
!