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Anonymous
June 2, 2005 3:43:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Hi

I have played Nethack on and off for years...it is the game I play while
waiting for the next game

The unfortunate thing is I probably get Ok and then don't play for a year
and then have to re-learn the basics.

Though i know spoiler pages exist and have read them...I still seem nowhere
near the characters
that i read on here ascending....

I am lucky to get one wish, one marker, one genocide (and not blessed) and
so by the time I get to the castle between eeels and liches it is tough
going....

Has anyone ever written not so much a list but a guide per se...ie a map of
an ascension

ie Started a bar he/she has these stats

level 1..ate an eye got sense instrinsic, and found a ring
2....

5 went to mines......

8 finally converted an altar and so blessed a id scroll

you get the idea...Its like I have 90% of the picture but I am sure I am
missing some basic
practical applications

Any advice appreciated

EdenR


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More about : succeed

Anonymous
June 2, 2005 6:25:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Eden R" <edroy@zip.com.au> was moved to say:

>The unfortunate thing is I probably get Ok and then don't play for a year
>and then have to re-learn the basics.
>
>Though i know spoiler pages exist and have read them...

>Has anyone ever written ... a map of an ascension

>Any advice appreciated

Closest thing I can think of (amongst my boommarks) is
http://homepage.mac.com/mhjohnson/mag-r342.html - "Maniac's Ascension
Guide".

It is not a step-by-step list such as you suggested, but it does
provide details, prerequisites and hints for everything you *must* do
in the game to survive and ascend.

--

JPD


SGFN
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 9:08:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Thanks...that looks very close to what i was looking for

Cheers
EdenR

"JPD" <john_p_darcy@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:429e6aba.93786545@news.bigpond.com...
> "Eden R" <edroy@zip.com.au> was moved to say:
>
>>The unfortunate thing is I probably get Ok and then don't play for a year
>>and then have to re-learn the basics.
>>
>>Though i know spoiler pages exist and have read them...
>
>>Has anyone ever written ... a map of an ascension
>
>>Any advice appreciated
>
> Closest thing I can think of (amongst my boommarks) is
> http://homepage.mac.com/mhjohnson/mag-r342.html - "Maniac's Ascension
> Guide".
>
> It is not a step-by-step list such as you suggested, but it does
> provide details, prerequisites and hints for everything you *must* do
> in the game to survive and ascend.
>
> --
>
> JPD
>
>
> SGFN


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Anonymous
June 2, 2005 4:33:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Eden R <edroy@zip.com.au>:
>I am lucky to get one wish, one marker, one genocide (and not blessed) and
>so by the time I get to the castle between eeels and liches it is tough
>going....

Well, eels are no threat at all, and you should have the holy water chain
going by then, so if you are lucky enough to have found a genocide, that's
bye-bye liches.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Thursday, June.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 4:33:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Damerell wrote:
> Well, eels are no threat at all,

Written as one never caught in an eel's grasp... I'd say of minimal
threat when you know what to do and have the proper tools to do it, but
someone trying to raise their Nethack gameplay to the next level needs
to learn what to do about them before considering them no threat at all.

-Ken
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 5:43:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

john_p_darcy@yahoo.com.au (JPD) writes:

> "Eden R" <edroy@zip.com.au> was moved to say:
>
> >The unfortunate thing is I probably get Ok and then don't play for a year
> >and then have to re-learn the basics.
> >
> >Though i know spoiler pages exist and have read them...
>
> >Has anyone ever written ... a map of an ascension
>
> >Any advice appreciated
>
> Closest thing I can think of (amongst my boommarks) is
> http://homepage.mac.com/mhjohnson/mag-r342.html - "Maniac's Ascension
> Guide".

Which contains some suggestions which are not completely
agreed upon as beneficial in rgrn. But the most part seems
good to me.

Anyhow, just my two cent:

Learn to run away. The run away tactic is your friend.
I have trouble recalling any ascension game where my character
didn't run away one time or the other (many were running away
a lot, being weak in melee at first).

Use your pet. The mere fact that it is possible to
ascend as a pacifist without an early wand of wishing
suggests that they can be extremely useful. Plus,
if your pet kills a monster, the chance that you
(if you're near enough) will be able to eat the corpse
is higher. Pets have many uses, but the most important
in early game are killing things, sensing cursed items
and apporting things that don't actually belong to
you, technically speaking.

Learn when it is relatively safe to try a prayer, and what
a prayer can fix and what not. After all, you're doing
your god's bidding, so you can expect a little help here
and there.

Pet-test and try every armor you find. Many early games
improve greatly from the moment a +4 orcish helm was found.

Learn the sneaky ways. Kicking doors open, charging at the
orc horde in full sway, hacking left and right is not the
way it's meant to be. Learn to hide behind corners so ranged
attacks can't get you and you can take them one at a time.

Floating eyes are there for exactly one reason -- kill the
player who types 'in advance' (now I go right, then down,
then -- oh no!). Look first, type later.

Use the resources to find. There are hundreds of bones
files with wands and scrolls 'saved for later'.

And remember that the RNG will try to do you in, it
just likes it that you don't see it coming.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 10:18:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Ken Cuvelier <kvcflameNO@SPAMyahoo.com>:
>David Damerell wrote:
>>Well, eels are no threat at all,
>Written as one never caught in an eel's grasp...

Not for very many years now.

>someone trying to raise their Nethack gameplay to the next level needs
>to learn what to do about them before considering them no threat at all.

It should not be a matter of learning. Three facts are obvious;

a) eels can't move out of the water
b) eels do not have ranged attacks
c) the player does have access to ranged attacks.

Someone who can get to the Castle should not have trouble making the
necessary deduction. :-)
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Thursday, June.
June 3, 2005 5:37:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 23:43:55 GMT, Eden R <edroy@zip.com.au> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have played Nethack on and off for years...it is the game I play while
> waiting for the next game
>
> The unfortunate thing is I probably get Ok and then don't play for a year
> and then have to re-learn the basics.
>
> Though i know spoiler pages exist and have read them...I still seem nowhere
> near the characters
> that i read on here ascending....
>
> I am lucky to get one wish, one marker, one genocide (and not blessed) and
> so by the time I get to the castle between eeels and liches it is tough
> going....
>
> Has anyone ever written not so much a list but a guide per se...ie a map of
> an ascension
>
> ie Started a bar he/she has these stats
>
> level 1..ate an eye got sense instrinsic, and found a ring
> 2....
>
> 5 went to mines......
>
> 8 finally converted an altar and so blessed a id scroll
>
> you get the idea...Its like I have 90% of the picture but I am sure I am
> missing some basic
> practical applications
>
> Any advice appreciated
>
> EdenR
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.794 / Virus Database: 538 - Release Date: 11/11/2004

I admit I've never ascended even once, but I've found that it's really
easy to reach high levels with a barbarian. And after weeks of some
cruel YASD's, I finally have an ascendable barbarian, with -20 AC and
all the essentials like Cleaver, magic resistance, reflection, and bag
of holding (and I haven't even done the Quest or passed Medusa yet).

My general strategy for the early game (the order isn't that
important; the main thing is the lower your AC and get reflection):

1. Start as orcish chaotic - orcish for infravision, and chaotic lets
you murder and loot without any penalty.

2. Go to Minetown first (entrance to the Mines is between level 2-4) and
see what the shops have. There's always a lamp or two which might give
you a wish. Convert the altar if it's not aligned (by then, you should
have gained enough levels to do this safely; but of course if you fail
and get yourself converted, you'll have to start the game all over).

3. Next go to Sokoban (entrance is on main level 7-9) for an amulet of
reflection. Sokoban is really annoying at first (especially when the
boulders aren't aligned with the floor as in text mode), but you'll
figure it out.

4. Now go back to Minetown and wipe out the shopkeers so you can get
enough gold for the protection racket. Hopefully, Sokoban will have
yielded the amulet instead of a bag of holding; if not, the job will be
much harder. Anyway, this should give you enough gold to lower your AC
almost 10 points.

5. Then go on to Mine's End from Minetown for the luckstone, which
should prove pretty uneventful. In the meantime, get Cleaver by
sacrificing, and all your important stuff blessed with water prayer. At
this point, you should be in pretty good shape to tackle the lower
levels, with 10+ XP level, good armor, weapons, and AC, and plenty of
wands, rings, and scrolls.

6. Telepathy is of course indispensable for survival; just keep applying
that blindfold every few turns, and the annoying monsters like nymphs
and succubi will not even be able to approach you. Here is also where
the barbarian's natural speed comes in very handy.

7. Learn how to identify magical items without a scroll of identify.
Save the hard stuff for a blessed scroll of identify.

8. Encumbrance is always an issue unless you have a bag of holding. I
save space by not carrying any scrolls except teleport (one lousy scroll
weighs as much as 5 arrows).

9. Study the spoilers! (especially the one on monsters, and especially
monsters with spellcasting, because a barbarian usually lacks magic
resistance)

HTH (and corrections are of course welcome), and good luck!
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 6:22:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

anon <anon@anonn.com> was moved to say:

>I admit I've never ascended even once, but I've found that it's really
>easy to reach high levels with a barbarian.

In contrast, I play Tourists every single time (except the round-robin
games) because I insist on setting myself a tough challenge. So, I am
at high risk early in the game but the satisfaction I get from
building my tourist into a strong character is that much greater.

I rely heavily on my pet in the early game. Stay out of trouble and
do not make any kills if possible, in order to keep my character level
low for when I want to pay for protection. A tourist starts with a
credit card for picking locks, a camera with a flash for blinding a
monster in order to get out of danger, and tripe rations (nearly every
game) for training the pet to shoplift. Most games there will be a
shop on Dlvl2 or 3 or both. Wear any armour which the pet walks on,
similrly try on rings and amulets if they are not cursed.

An early venture into the Mines is the usual course, but if I am still
poorly armoured then I will be in trouble - particularly from ranged
attacks in the dark. Getting to the Minetown temple is the goal, and
since the tourist starts with a bit of cash then the chances of buying
at least 4 AC points of protection are pretty good. If I have made it
this far, then it is also likely my pet has helped supply me with
better armour and a collection of daggers/knives. Tourists cannot
become skilled with most weapons - a short sword is useful.

Minetown might keep me occupied for quite a while. But once its
possibilities are exhausted, and a sorted/id'd stash is made in the
temple and I have kitted myself with the best equipment available (but
not one excess item), I go back UP - not down - and head for Sokoban.
There is more to be gained there than at Mine's End for my still
relatively-weak tourist. By the way, I always keep one scroll of
magic mapping for Mine's End.

The other advice given by the previous poster is sound - except for
killing off the shopkeepers, which is hideously dangerous for a
tourist. I prefer to sell back to the shop every non-essential item,
have the pet steal them back, wash, rinse, repeat until the shoppie is
out of money. By the time I have completed Minetown, Sokoban and
Mine's End, I am disappointed if I have not earned at least one wish
and my first wish is always used on a blessed +3 gray dragon scale
mail. Some say to preserve a magic lamp as a permanent light source,
but I cannot make that choice so early in the game - I prefer using
the wish. Reflection is a necessity, but I prefer a shield for this
and get the magic protection that the GDSM offers. I would also hope
for a bag of holding somewhere along the way, since my stash will need
to be moved out of the mines in due course.

I only proceed below Sokoban when I am certain that I have -

- cleared out all vaults
- exhausted all possibilities of shops
- bought as much protection as I can afford
- gathered every single loose item that I can carry to one handy spot
- dug a straight path between the stairs on each level so far
- exercised a bit on a boulder run (perhaps this should be first)
- paused for a snack and to check if it is night or day outside

The next significant stage of my journey will be the Quest. And I
don't see the Quest very often. I may have a serious strategy for my
tourist, but the fact remains he is vulnerable and any game that I get
below Sokoban is a good game at this stage of my career :) 

--

JPD


SGFN
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 5:36:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 6/3/05 10:22 PM, JPD wrote:

> The next significant stage of my journey will be the Quest. And I
> don't see the Quest very often. I may have a serious strategy for my
> tourist, but the fact remains he is vulnerable and any game that I get
> below Sokoban is a good game at this stage of my career :) 

It's always good to keep in mind that for many character classes (or
situations, depending on what you've already accumulated in the dungeon)
it may make sense to take on the Castle before doing the Quest.
Sometimes the Castle wand will give you what you need to take on the
Quest nemesis.

--
Kevin Wayne

"Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare
their souls." --Steve Hindalong
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 5:58:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Thanks for that..some useful suggestions...

2 questions:

The buying protection...how can you tell its been granted ?

and what is the attitude to thrones: does the good outweigh the bad?

Cheers
EdenR
"anon" <anon@anonn.com> wrote in message
news:42a05d00$0$1586$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 23:43:55 GMT, Eden R <edroy@zip.com.au> wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I have played Nethack on and off for years...it is the game I play while
>> waiting for the next game
>>
>> The unfortunate thing is I probably get Ok and then don't play for a year
>> and then have to re-learn the basics.
>>
>> Though i know spoiler pages exist and have read them...I still seem
>> nowhere
>> near the characters
>> that i read on here ascending....
>>
>> I am lucky to get one wish, one marker, one genocide (and not blessed)
>> and
>> so by the time I get to the castle between eeels and liches it is tough
>> going....
>>
>> Has anyone ever written not so much a list but a guide per se...ie a map
>> of
>> an ascension
>>
>> ie Started a bar he/she has these stats
>>
>> level 1..ate an eye got sense instrinsic, and found a ring
>> 2....
>>
>> 5 went to mines......
>>
>> 8 finally converted an altar and so blessed a id scroll
>>
>> you get the idea...Its like I have 90% of the picture but I am sure I am
>> missing some basic
>> practical applications
>>
>> Any advice appreciated
>>
>> EdenR
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.794 / Virus Database: 538 - Release Date: 11/11/2004
>
> I admit I've never ascended even once, but I've found that it's really
> easy to reach high levels with a barbarian. And after weeks of some
> cruel YASD's, I finally have an ascendable barbarian, with -20 AC and
> all the essentials like Cleaver, magic resistance, reflection, and bag
> of holding (and I haven't even done the Quest or passed Medusa yet).
>
> My general strategy for the early game (the order isn't that
> important; the main thing is the lower your AC and get reflection):
>
> 1. Start as orcish chaotic - orcish for infravision, and chaotic lets
> you murder and loot without any penalty.
>
> 2. Go to Minetown first (entrance to the Mines is between level 2-4) and
> see what the shops have. There's always a lamp or two which might give
> you a wish. Convert the altar if it's not aligned (by then, you should
> have gained enough levels to do this safely; but of course if you fail
> and get yourself converted, you'll have to start the game all over).
>
> 3. Next go to Sokoban (entrance is on main level 7-9) for an amulet of
> reflection. Sokoban is really annoying at first (especially when the
> boulders aren't aligned with the floor as in text mode), but you'll
> figure it out.
>
> 4. Now go back to Minetown and wipe out the shopkeers so you can get
> enough gold for the protection racket. Hopefully, Sokoban will have
> yielded the amulet instead of a bag of holding; if not, the job will be
> much harder. Anyway, this should give you enough gold to lower your AC
> almost 10 points.
>
> 5. Then go on to Mine's End from Minetown for the luckstone, which
> should prove pretty uneventful. In the meantime, get Cleaver by
> sacrificing, and all your important stuff blessed with water prayer. At
> this point, you should be in pretty good shape to tackle the lower
> levels, with 10+ XP level, good armor, weapons, and AC, and plenty of
> wands, rings, and scrolls.
>
> 6. Telepathy is of course indispensable for survival; just keep applying
> that blindfold every few turns, and the annoying monsters like nymphs
> and succubi will not even be able to approach you. Here is also where
> the barbarian's natural speed comes in very handy.
>
> 7. Learn how to identify magical items without a scroll of identify.
> Save the hard stuff for a blessed scroll of identify.
>
> 8. Encumbrance is always an issue unless you have a bag of holding. I
> save space by not carrying any scrolls except teleport (one lousy scroll
> weighs as much as 5 arrows).
>
> 9. Study the spoilers! (especially the one on monsters, and especially
> monsters with spellcasting, because a barbarian usually lacks magic
> resistance)
>
> HTH (and corrections are of course welcome), and good luck!


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.794 / Virus Database: 538 - Release Date: 11/11/2004
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 9:14:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Eden R babbled on for HOURS on 04 Jun 2005:

> Thanks for that..some useful suggestions...
>
> 2 questions:
>
> The buying protection...how can you tell its been granted ?
>
> and what is the attitude to thrones: does the good outweigh the bad?
>
> Cheers
> EdenR

You will know you are protected because your armor class will go down. Buy
more and SAVE!!

As far as the way I play, I always do thrones. Of course I stash/drop all
my gold first and put breakables (potions), explodables (wands), ruinables
(scrolls/books) away as well. I may be being a little paranoid there, but
hey paranoia in NH (or SlashEm) has NEVER gotten anyone killed...the lack
of it has about 908729834791824182789 times.
!