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Two-Weapon Combat Questions

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Anonymous
June 3, 2005 5:20:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Ok, first question, with the one bugging me the most...
Is it possible to get Wizards (or most classes) to use two-weapon
combat even, or is it restricted to only a few classes? If the answer
is yes, what else short of editing the source will allow this?

Second question:
If I have two weapons wielded, say, Stormbringer and Magicbane, will I
get the combined intrinsics from both weapons, like Stormbringer's
level-drain resistance and Magicbane's resisting curse? Secondly, in
reguards to Stormbringer, due to it not having -any- warning towards
attacking friendlies, will wielding a second weapon such as Magicbane
cancel out the non-warning and pause for confirmation (if that option
is true)?

More about : weapon combat questions

Anonymous
June 3, 2005 12:57:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 2005-06-03, Magus Zeal wrote:
> Ok, first question, with the one bugging me the most...
> Is it possible to get Wizards (or most classes) to use two-weapon
> combat even, or is it restricted to only a few classes? If the answer
> is yes, what else short of editing the source will allow this?

Nothing will, I'm afraid.
>
> Second question:
> If I have two weapons wielded, say, Stormbringer and Magicbane, will I
> get the combined intrinsics from both weapons, like Stormbringer's
> level-drain resistance and Magicbane's resisting curse? Secondly, in

You cannot wield two artifact weapons together (they will "resist" it).

> reguards to Stormbringer, due to it not having -any- warning towards
> attacking friendlies, will wielding a second weapon such as Magicbane
> cancel out the non-warning and pause for confirmation (if that option
> is true)?
>
You cannot wield an artifact weapon as a secondary when two-weaponing;
therefore, wielding Stormbringer together with another (non-artifact)
weapon, you would still be attacking friendlies with Stormbringer, while
the secondary weapon gets a hit in after the check, so you would be
hitting twice without being asked once.

The general opinion is that two-weaponing is already overpowered, so
these restrictions are highly unlikely to be removed, and removing them
on your own would be counted as cheating. When playing a wizard, you are
supposed to run away in the early game and cast deadly spells all around
you in the late game. Doing it hack'n'slash with two big mean artifact
weapons in your hands is for the fighter classes.

greetings
Ohle
--
Jann Ohle Claussen | GPG-Key-ID E7149169
http://www.stud.uni-goettingen.de/~s251251
printk("Cool stuff's happening!\n")
2.4.3 linux/fs/jffs/intrep.c
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 2:25:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Magus Zeal" <maguszeal@gmail.com> writes:

> Ok, first question, with the one bugging me the most...
> Is it possible to get Wizards (or most classes) to use two-weapon
> combat even, or is it restricted to only a few classes?

No.

> If the answer
> is yes, what else short of editing the source will allow this?

Bugging the DevTeam for it. No, seriously, I think this is
part of balancing and diversifying the classes.

> Second question:
> If I have two weapons wielded, say, Stormbringer and Magicbane,

Only possible in Slash'em. In Vanilla, Magicbane resists being
held second to another weapon.

Best,
Jakob
Related resources
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 3:08:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 03 Jun 2005 10:25:08 +0200, Jakob Creutzig wrote:
>
> Only possible in Slash'em. In Vanilla, Magicbane resists being
> held second to another weapon.
>

IMHO it's not Magicbane's feature - you cannot twoweapon with two
artifact weapons and with one artifact weapon the artifact weapon must
be primary weapon.

--
Virgo Pärna
virgo.parna@mail.ee
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 3:25:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

jerk-o wrote:
>
> If you polymorph into a marilith, can you weild more than two weapons?

No, you get more hits with the two you can wield. Too
much extra coding for a rare circumstance.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 3:41:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Jakob Creutzig wrote:

> "Magus Zeal" <maguszeal@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Ok, first question, with the one bugging me the most...
> > Is it possible to get Wizards (or most classes) to use two-weapon
> > combat even, or is it restricted to only a few classes?
>
> No.
>
> > If the answer
> > is yes, what else short of editing the source will allow this?
>
> Bugging the DevTeam for it. No, seriously, I think this is
> part of balancing and diversifying the classes.
>
> > Second question:
> > If I have two weapons wielded, say, Stormbringer and Magicbane,
>
> Only possible in Slash'em. In Vanilla, Magicbane resists being
> held second to another weapon.

As any other artefact, this is not a property of MB. AFAIR, (wizmode
tests), in the secondary artefact weapon do not provide its intrinsics
but does it's extra damage.

And no, that will not prevent you from attacking with with Stormy, the way
twoweaponing works is (if I understood properly) "if you hit with primary
weapon, then automatic hit with secondary weapon". And not two different
hit rolls, one for each weapon (like in D&D3).

Maybe nethack could gain something to be bring to the D&D3 system, but I'm
not sure about that. (plus it would ask lots of work) (and we can always
play Neverwinter nights if we want some D&D3 on computer...)

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 3:54:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym <moyen@loria.fr> writes:

[#twoweaponing two artifacts in s]
> And no, that will not prevent you from attacking with with Stormy, the way
> twoweaponing works is (if I understood properly) "if you hit with primary
> weapon, then automatic hit with secondary weapon". And not two different
> hit rolls, one for each weapon (like in D&D3).

I don't think this has anything to do with the question how hitting
chances are calculated. Rather, the game does not trigger the
'Do you really want' message if trying to move on a square occupied
by a peaceful if you wield SB. I have no idea how slashem handles this
with SB as secondary weapon, though.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 1:20:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> "Magus Zeal" <maguszeal@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>>Ok, first question, with the one bugging me the most...
>>Is it possible to get Wizards (or most classes) to use two-weapon
>>combat even, or is it restricted to only a few classes?
>
> No.

Actually, if you polymorph into a form whose second attack is a weapon
attack, you can two-weapon. The candidates are: dwarf lord, dwarf king,
orc-captain, Aleax, ettin, elf-lord, Elvenking, marilith, pit fiend, balrog.
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 1:20:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Corbett <dcorbett42@yahoo.co.nz> writes:

> Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> > "Magus Zeal" <maguszeal@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> >>Ok, first question, with the one bugging me the most...
> >>Is it possible to get Wizards (or most classes) to use two-weapon
> >> combat even, or is it restricted to only a few classes?
> > No.
>
> Actually, if you polymorph into a form whose second attack is a weapon
> attack, you can two-weapon. The candidates are: dwarf lord, dwarf
> king, orc-captain, Aleax, ettin, elf-lord, Elvenking, marilith, pit
> fiend, balrog.

Of course, that's right. Hmh, a wizard-like spellcaster-Aleax,
sounds like real overpowering. Marilith's also neat. I didn't
know dwarf lords/kings can #twoweapon; must have a closer look
at them next time.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 1:20:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

After going to <http://tinyurl.com/2tnqw&gt;
David Corbett <dcorbett42@yahoo.co.nz> wrote

>Jakob Creutzig wrote:
>> "Magus Zeal" <maguszeal@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>>Ok, first question, with the one bugging me the most...
>>>Is it possible to get Wizards (or most classes) to use two-weapon
>>>combat even, or is it restricted to only a few classes?
>>
>> No.
>
>Actually, if you polymorph into a form whose second attack is a weapon
>attack, you can two-weapon. The candidates are: dwarf lord, dwarf king,
>orc-captain, Aleax, ettin, elf-lord, Elvenking, marilith, pit fiend, balrog.

If you polymorph into a marilith, can you weild more than two weapons?
--
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Anonymous
June 4, 2005 1:20:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> David Corbett <dcorbett42@yahoo.co.nz> writes:

>> Actually, if you polymorph into a form whose second attack is a
>> weapon attack, you can two-weapon. The candidates are: dwarf lord,
>> dwarf king, orc-captain, Aleax, ettin, elf-lord, Elvenking,
>> marilith, pit fiend, balrog.

> Of course, that's right. Hmh, a wizard-like spellcaster-Aleax,
> sounds like real overpowering. Marilith's also neat. I didn't
> know dwarf lords/kings can #twoweapon; must have a closer look
> at them next time.

Actually, I believe you cannot polymorph into angels or demons...

But if you could, you would be able to twoweapon, indeed.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 1:20:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:

> Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> > David Corbett <dcorbett42@yahoo.co.nz> writes:
>
> >> Actually, if you polymorph into a form whose second attack is a
> >> weapon attack, you can two-weapon. The candidates are: dwarf lord,
> >> dwarf king, orc-captain, Aleax, ettin, elf-lord, Elvenking,
> >> marilith, pit fiend, balrog.
>
> > Of course, that's right. Hmh, a wizard-like spellcaster-Aleax,
> > sounds like real overpowering. Marilith's also neat. I didn't
> > know dwarf lords/kings can #twoweapon; must have a closer look
> > at them next time.
>
> Actually, I believe you cannot polymorph into angels or demons...

Explore mode, wished for =oPC, /oP,

Become what kind of monster?
You turn into an aleax!
Become what kind of monster?
You turn into a marilith!
Become what kind of monster?
You turn into a pit fiend!
...
You begin two-weapon combat.

Works fine.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 1:20:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:
> Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> > David Corbett <dcorbett42@yahoo.co.nz> writes:
>
> >> Actually, if you polymorph into a form whose second attack is a
> >> weapon attack, you can two-weapon. The candidates are: dwarf lord,
> >> dwarf king, orc-captain, Aleax, ettin, elf-lord, Elvenking,
> >> marilith, pit fiend, balrog.
>
> > Of course, that's right. Hmh, a wizard-like spellcaster-Aleax,
> > sounds like real overpowering. Marilith's also neat. I didn't
> > know dwarf lords/kings can #twoweapon; must have a closer look
> > at them next time.
>
> Actually, I believe you cannot polymorph into angels or demons...
>
> But if you could, you would be able to twoweapon, indeed.

Some angels and demons are valid polymorph targets: couatls, Aleaxes,
horned devils, succubi, incubi, barbed devils, mariliths, vrocks,
hezrous, bone devils, ice devils, nalfeshnees, pit fiends, and
balrogs. Of these, as David notes, only Aleaxes, mariliths, pit
fiends, and balrogs can two-weapon.

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "At the sushi counter of life, you must use the chopsticks of ambition :
: to grab the sashimi of accomplishment or you will be left with the :
: wasabi of disappointment." -- Dan Shiovitz :
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 1:20:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 6/3/05 6:07 AM, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> Actually, I believe you cannot polymorph into angels or demons...
>
> But if you could, you would be able to twoweapon, indeed.
>
Gee, Boudewijn, can't you try things out in wizmode before spreading
misinformation?

--
Kevin Wayne

"Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare
their souls." --Steve Hindalong
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 1:20:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kevin Wayne wrote:
> On 6/3/05 6:07 AM, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

>> Actually, I believe you cannot polymorph into angels or demons...
>> But if you could, you would be able to twoweapon, indeed.

> Gee, Boudewijn, can't you try things out in wizmode before spreading
> misinformation?

Actually, what I wrote was entirely correct. I *really did* believe that
one cannot polymorph into angels or demons.

:-)

But you are correct in telling me to try things out first (although
explore mode would be better than wizard mode since some things work
differently in wizard mode).

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 5:37:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 6/3/05 1:36 PM, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Actually, what I wrote was entirely correct. I *really did* believe that
> one cannot polymorph into angels or demons.
>
> :-)
>
> But you are correct in telling me to try things out first (although
> explore mode would be better than wizard mode since some things work
> differently in wizard mode).

How nice to have a good-natured response to (what was at least intended
as) a gentle rebuke!

:-)

--
Kevin Wayne

"Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare
their souls." --Steve Hindalong
!