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bad luck from taming?

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Anonymous
June 5, 2005 11:27:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Hi all,

I just ended a (disgustingly short) game. I was an elven wizard, died
relatively low-level in the Mines. I'd found a +oCharmMonster and had
been taming monsters fairly frequently. I died unlucky.

I checked the spoilers and didn't see any actions that I would've
expected would make me unlucky. The only thing that comes to mind as
possibly having made me unlucky was being chaotic and taming monsters
using Charm Monster frequently.

*Does* using Charm Monster hit you with luck penalties if you're
Chaotic?


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch

More about : bad luck taming

Anonymous
June 5, 2005 11:27:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

It might. There's also a chance your diety saw that you were doing
something "good" and penalized you (after all, anyone who uses Chaos
can do things on their own! They don't need the help of a lower
life-form! Although I tend to disagree, I find riding a dragon + having
other critters around you to help. A LOT.), and it all depends on what
you tamed, I suppose. You may have tamed something that was lawful,
like a white unicorn, and that's sort of tainting your alignment.

Or maybe I'm just rambling.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 11:48:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Magus Zeal <maguszeal@gmail.com> wrote:
> It might. There's also a chance your diety saw that you were doing
> something "good" and penalized you (after all, anyone who uses Chaos
> can do things on their own! They don't need the help of a lower
> life-form! Although I tend to disagree, I find riding a dragon + having
> other critters around you to help. A LOT.), and it all depends on what
> you tamed, I suppose. You may have tamed something that was lawful,
> like a white unicorn, and that's sort of tainting your alignment.

Nope, homunculus, hobgoblin, and gnome.

I *said* it was a short game :/ 

the homunculus may've been peaceful, though; they usually are when I'm
playing elven wizards. I know attacking a peaceful can have alignment
or luck (forget which) detriment; taming one might as well.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
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Anonymous
June 5, 2005 5:30:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Keith Davies wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just ended a (disgustingly short) game. I was an elven wizard, died
> relatively low-level in the Mines. I'd found a +oCharmMonster and had
> been taming monsters fairly frequently. I died unlucky.
>
> I checked the spoilers and didn't see any actions that I would've
> expected would make me unlucky. The only thing that comes to mind as
> possibly having made me unlucky was being chaotic and taming monsters
> using Charm Monster frequently.
>
> *Does* using Charm Monster hit you with luck penalties if you're
> Chaotic?

No, it doesn't.

Janis
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 12:29:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Keith Davies wrote:
>
> I just ended a (disgustingly short) game. I was an elven wizard, died
> relatively low-level in the Mines. I'd found a +oCharmMonster and had
> been taming monsters fairly frequently. I died unlucky.
>
> I checked the spoilers and didn't see any actions that I would've
> expected would make me unlucky. The only thing that comes to mind as
> possibly having made me unlucky was being chaotic and taming monsters
> using Charm Monster frequently.
>
> *Does* using Charm Monster hit you with luck penalties if you're
> Chaotic?

No. The spoilers list all of the actions that can reduce
luck and that isn't in the list.

http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/gems-343.txt
http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/341/gems-341.html

Here are the ones that caught my eye as not obvious.

-1 Hitting a blind floating eye (1 in 500 chance).
-1 Killing a tame or peaceful (sometimes) monster.

Not too many blind floating eyes wandering around, so it
seemed wierd. Without source diving I'm not sure what the
(sometimes) in the second one means. When gathering
equipment I tend to kill peacefulls I think might have
items I want, so that (sometimes) could be it.
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 1:57:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
> Doug Freyburger writes:
>
> [methods of losing luck]
>
> > -1 Killing a tame or peaceful (sometimes) monster.
>
> if you kill a peaceful monster _without angering it_, 50%
> chance. (Doing the latter is tricky but possible.)

Single blow kill or other instakills, right?
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 7:21:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 07:27:18 +0000, Keith Davies wrote:

> *Does* using Charm Monster hit you with luck penalties if you're
> Chaotic?

No, but healing them causes alignment (not luck) penalties for chaotics.

Pets are great purveyors of chaos, especially the more you have. Imagine
a RL example* Paris Hilton walks into FAO Schwartz. Yawn. A few gawkers
and autograph seekers (Lvl 1 Tourists). Now, Paris Hilton walks into FAO
Schwartz with six yappy dogs and only two are on leashes... see?

Now what happens when you take your horse and djinni into a delicatessen? ;) 

If you were a wizard in the mines, V'yy org lbh xvyyrq n alzcu be gjb
hfvat sbepr obyg naq funggrerq ure zveebe. When I first began playing, it
took me a long time to realize I was damaging my luck and should stop
doing that.

--
"We are setting a standard for the rest of the world in the treatment
of people who may have loyalties to an enemy nation. We are protecting
ourselves without violating the principles of Christian decency."
Milton S. Eisenhower, "Japanese Relocation" (1943 propaganda film)
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 7:59:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Yashichi <devnull@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 07:27:18 +0000, Keith Davies wrote:
>
>> *Does* using Charm Monster hit you with luck penalties if you're
>> Chaotic?
>
> No, but healing them causes alignment (not luck) penalties for chaotics.

I knew it was one of the two, couldn't be arsed to look it up.

> If you were a wizard in the mines, V'yy org lbh xvyyrq n alzcu be gjb
> hfvat sbepr obyg naq funggrerq ure zveebe. When I first began playing, it
> took me a long time to realize I was damaging my luck and should stop
> doing that.

It's *possible*, but I don't remember having done that. I was able to
cast charm monster easily enough, so I was probably high enough level
that nymphs should've been showing up, but I don't remember killing any
around that point.

In fact, I don't remember doing anything that I *thought* would tap my
luck, unless it was having so many pets.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 8:11:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Seraphim wrote:
> Keith Davies wrote:
> > Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
>
> >> If you kill a tame monster, there's a 100% chance of losing a point
> >> of luck; if you kill a peaceful monster _without angering it_, 50%
> >> chance. (Doing the latter is tricky but possible.)
>
> > poke it with a stick. Or some other very-small-damaging weapon.
>
> Wouldn't that bee the exact opposite of what you want? Angering it
> without killing it?

The discussion was about lowering luck by killing without
angering. Poking with a stick to anger guarantees you
won't reduce luck, so it is what you want to do but it is
the opposited of the earlier discussion.

Ray vs beam. Rays bounce, rays anger. Beams don't bounce,
beams don't anger. Check. I rarely pay attention to
whether a directional spell is a ray or a beam.
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 9:08:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com> writes:

[methods of losing luck]

> -1 Hitting a blind floating eye (1 in 500 chance).
> -1 Killing a tame or peaceful (sometimes) monster.
>
> Not too many blind floating eyes wandering around, so it
> seemed wierd. Without source diving I'm not sure what the
> (sometimes) in the second one means. When gathering
> equipment I tend to kill peacefulls I think might have
> items I want, so that (sometimes) could be it.

If you kill a tame monster, there's a 100% chance of losing a point of
luck; if you kill a peaceful monster _without angering it_, 50%
chance. (Doing the latter is tricky but possible.)

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "At the sushi counter of life, you must use the chopsticks of ambition :
: to grab the sashimi of accomplishment or you will be left with the :
: wasabi of disappointment." -- Dan Shiovitz :
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 10:13:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com> writes:
> Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
> > Doug Freyburger writes:
> >
> > [methods of losing luck]
> >
> > > -1 Killing a tame or peaceful (sometimes) monster.
> >
> > if you kill a peaceful monster _without angering it_, 50%
> > chance. (Doing the latter is tricky but possible.)
>
> Single blow kill or other instakills, right?

No; attacking a peaceful monster or zapping it with a ray angers it
before it dies. (Zapping it with a beam doesn't, and there are some
more obscure methods.)

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "At the sushi counter of life, you must use the chopsticks of ambition :
: to grab the sashimi of accomplishment or you will be left with the :
: wasabi of disappointment." -- Dan Shiovitz :
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 10:13:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
> No; attacking a peaceful monster or zapping it with a ray angers it
> before it dies. (Zapping it with a beam doesn't, and there are some
> more obscure methods.)

So what's the distinction between a ray and a beam?

--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
June 7, 2005 10:13:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

John Campbell <jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com> wrote in news:5Kkpe.6631
$xI2.3952@trnddc09:

> Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
>> No; attacking a peaceful monster or zapping it with a ray angers it
>> before it dies. (Zapping it with a beam doesn't, and there are some
>> more obscure methods.)
>
> So what's the distinction between a ray and a beam?

Rays have a visible beam and will bounce off of walls. They will be
IDed if you see the ray. This includes things like Magic Missile, Cold,
Fire, Lightning, Sleep, and Wands of Death.

Beams don't have a visible beam and won't bounce off walls. They will
be IDed if they actually cause an effect. This includes things like
striking, opening, locking, polymorph.
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 10:15:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Dylan O'Donnell <psmithnews@spod-central.org> wrote:
> "Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> [methods of losing luck]
>
>> -1 Hitting a blind floating eye (1 in 500 chance).
>> -1 Killing a tame or peaceful (sometimes) monster.
>>
>> Not too many blind floating eyes wandering around, so it
>> seemed wierd. Without source diving I'm not sure what the
>> (sometimes) in the second one means. When gathering
>> equipment I tend to kill peacefulls I think might have
>> items I want, so that (sometimes) could be it.
>
> If you kill a tame monster, there's a 100% chance of losing a point of
> luck; if you kill a peaceful monster _without angering it_, 50%
> chance. (Doing the latter is tricky but possible.)

poke it with a stick. Or some other very-small-damaging weapon.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
June 7, 2005 10:47:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in
news:slrndabp1r.45n.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:

> Dylan O'Donnell <psmithnews@spod-central.org> wrote:
>
>> If you kill a tame monster, there's a 100% chance of losing a point
>> of luck; if you kill a peaceful monster _without angering it_, 50%
>> chance. (Doing the latter is tricky but possible.)
>
> poke it with a stick. Or some other very-small-damaging weapon.

Wouldn't that bee the exact opposite of what you want? Angering it
without killing it?
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 11:37:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Seraphim <gme6@cornell.edu> wrote:
> Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in
> news:slrndabp1r.45n.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:
>
>> Dylan O'Donnell <psmithnews@spod-central.org> wrote:
>>
>>> If you kill a tame monster, there's a 100% chance of losing a point
>>> of luck; if you kill a peaceful monster _without angering it_, 50%
>>> chance. (Doing the latter is tricky but possible.)
>>
>> poke it with a stick. Or some other very-small-damaging weapon.
>
> Wouldn't that bee the exact opposite of what you want? Angering it
> without killing it?

nope, because then you kill it the next turn.

Turn 1: poke with stick, anger
Turn 2: kill
Turn 3: loot the body (profit!)

Now, there are things that you don't want to anger and attack back, but
many of them, it's no big deal. At least at lower levels.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 2:00:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In message <Xns966E8D9D464CDgme6cornelledu@132.236.56.8>, Seraphim
<gme6@cornell.edu> writes
>John Campbell <jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com> wrote in news:5Kkpe.6631
>$xI2.3952@trnddc09:
>
>> Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
>>> No; attacking a peaceful monster or zapping it with a ray angers it
>>> before it dies. (Zapping it with a beam doesn't, and there are some
>>> more obscure methods.)
>>
>> So what's the distinction between a ray and a beam?
>
>Rays have a visible beam and will bounce off of walls. They will be
>IDed if you see the ray. This includes things like Magic Missile, Cold,
>Fire, Lightning, Sleep, and Wands of Death.
>
>Beams don't have a visible beam and won't bounce off walls. They will
>be IDed if they actually cause an effect. This includes things like
>striking, opening, locking, polymorph.
>
Whilst your on this subject, How about rubber chickens?

--
Leon Coles
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 3:33:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org>:
>Seraphim <gme6@cornell.edu> wrote:
>>Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in
>>>Dylan O'Donnell <psmithnews@spod-central.org> wrote:
>>>>If you kill a tame monster, there's a 100% chance of losing a point
>>>>of luck; if you kill a peaceful monster _without angering it_, 50%
>>>>chance. (Doing the latter is tricky but possible.)
>>>poke it with a stick. Or some other very-small-damaging weapon.
>>Wouldn't that bee the exact opposite of what you want? Angering it
>>without killing it?
>nope, because then you kill it the next turn.
>Turn 1: poke with stick, anger
>Turn 2: kill

In what conceivable sense is this "killing it without angering it"? It's
killed and it's made angry.

If it were this easy, do you really think Dylan would describe it as
"tricky but possible"?
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is First Brieday, June.
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 1:02:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 6/7/05 11:29 AM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> No. The spoilers list all of the actions that can reduce
> luck [...].
>
> Here are the ones that caught my eye as not obvious.
>
> -1 Hitting a blind floating eye (1 in 500 chance).
> -1 Killing a tame or peaceful (sometimes) monster.
>
> Not too many blind floating eyes wandering around, so it
> seemed wierd.

Floating eyes can be blinded by camara flashes, thus eliminating their
attack.

--
Kevin Wayne

"Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare
their souls." --Steve Hindalong
!