YAFAP!! (Finally!)

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I usually do best with Barbarians, but my first ascension was with a
rogue. Nickolas Writhen (NickolasW) the human rogue (used the name of a
character in a story I wrote).

went to minetown first & found a ghost that had a +2 silver DSM (a very
nice thing to find early in the game).
then to Sokoban, really needed a Bag of holding but it had a amulet of
reflection. I decided not to bother too much about staying unburdened,
because I'd consider it too much trouble.
then mine end, hoping I'd find a bag of holding somewhere in the mines.
I didn't. Got the luckstone and heading deeper.
after robbing a couple vaults I went back to minetown to buy some
protection. I was already pretty powerful so I went ahead and killed
the watchmen and got a silver saber from the captain. Soon I ditched by
+3 elven shield to two-weapon my now +3 silver saber and my +4 dagger
stack.
stopped at an alter to sac fest, got Orcrist. I used it to get basic in
broadsword but ditched it pretty soon. Kept sac'ing but didn't get
anything for a while so I went deeper. I finally got a bag of holding
from a ghost on about L11. sac'ed a few more times but didn't get
anything so I used a magic lamp to wish for Frost brand. (I also got two
magic lamps from that bones pile.) Later got Firebrand from sac'ing and
never used it. Found a wand of wishing laying around about L17. On
around level 20 I found another very nice bones pile with another wand
of wishing, stacks of extra and full healing potions, Giant Slayer and
+3 Magicbane (It also had the Eyes of Aepothowhatever but, being a
rogue, I couldn't pick them up). I raised my maxHPS, kept Magicbane and
left Giantslayer. (oh yeah, that bones pile also had an oilskin cloak,
very handy to find right before Medusa's level.)
Went to kill Medusa. I was now usually two-weaponing +3 Frostbrand and
+3 Silver Saber. but while I was over water I had to take off my Cloak
of MR to put on the oilskin cloak. So I two-weaponed +3 magicbane (for
magic resistance) and +3 silver saber. and eels and Krackens were never
a problem until the plane of water (where I forgot to bring my oilskin
cloak).
Then wiped out Fort Ludios, visiting Minetown again for some more
protection. Used a wish for gauntlets of power. The quest seemed easy at
this point. After the castle I had three wands of wishing and I still
didn't really need anything. I had genocided liches, master mind
flayers, and golden nagas. Lured some wraiths from the Valley to the
castle level, getting myself to about EXPL28. Yeenoghu was on the next
level below the valley, and the next few levels I killed a few demon
princes and accidently bribed Asmodeus. (I offered him less gold than he
asked for- I didn't think he'd accept it.) I killed nine disenchanters
before deciding to genocide them (I thought they were more rare than
that). Found the vibrating square and then "I off to kill the wizard,
the terrible wizard of Yendor, because because because because, because
he's got the book of the dead.." yeah. No trouble there. Came back to
the vibrating square and realized I forgot to bring candles. I had
plenty of spare wishes and I didn't feel like going back to minetown, so
poof! seven candles. lured some more wraiths from the sanctum to the
level before it, getting to EXPL30 and found out wraith corpses still
raise your maxHPS even after EXPL30. Again the high priest wasn't much
problem. at this point my Frost Brand and Silver saber were both +6, and
my armor class was -30.
On the way out I killed the priest of Moloch in the Valley just for
kicks. Otherwise the way out was pretty much uneventful. The Wizard of
Yendor appeared less often than I expected. I went to the plane of earth
remember to bring several scrolls of gold detection and a ring of free
action. The plane of earth went very quickly because the portal was very
near where I started. On the plane of air I realized I forgot to bring
my ring of levitation, for some reason I didn't think I'd need it
anymore after passing Medusa'a level going up. So I wished for one. Saw
my first Archon on the plane of air & used a wand of death. I don't like
Archons. The Plane of fire was uneventful. As I mentioned before I
forgot to bring an oilskin cloak to the plane of water and obviously I
couldn't go back for it. (that was a little more understandable to
forget since I've never been to the plane of water before). I decided to
risk it instead of wishing for it. I was powerful enough to kill
krackens in two turns, and I was right- they never got a hold on me. It
was very hard to find the portal on the Plane of water. I read the
confused ?oGD on the other side of the level, thinking I'd still see the
symbol, but there was a scroll on top of the portal so I couldn't see
the portal symbol. To the Astrial plane. My guardian angel got killed
before I got to the first alter. The third alter turned out to be the
right one.
thinking about it, it seems a little weird for a demi-god to be a rogue.

some ending stats and stuff:
Score 6,981,024. EXPL30, AC-30, maxHPS(368) (was 371 earlier, but
Death took it down a little)
never used a single spell the whole game except to confuse myself to
read the ?oGD. had 2 AoLS but never needed them. had 5 total unused
wishes (not including charging the wands) (used 4 wishes)
+6 Frost Brand
+6 silver saber
+3 Magicbane
Master Key of Thievery
also found but didn't keep: Firebrand, Orcrist, Giant Slayer, Eyes of
Apothowhatever.
+4 Hawaiian shirt
+4 Silver DSM
+4 CoMR
+3 gauntlets of power
+5 speed boots
+3 dented pot
Notable kills:
Wizard of Yendor (9 times)
Death (3 times)
Pestilence (once)
Famine (twice)
Orcus
Juiblex
Baalzebub
Yeenoghu
Master Assassin
Croesus
Vlad the Impaler
Medusa
10 mastodons
69 adult dragons
8 krackens
2 archons
a ki-rin
4 titans
5 jabberwocks
7 nazguls
9 disenchanters
47 vampire lords
I got real lucky this game with the great bones piles and stuff, and
meeting no more than 2 Archons. My next goal would be to win the game
while not being so lucky. Which makes me think an interesting challenge
(for sometimes later) would be to not use anything from bones piles. It
could be a pretty tough challenge if done along with wishless conduct.
I wouldn't try that yet though.

Asher


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"David Justiss" <dajustis@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:5ed86741d4753127576a67fdea78b41a.119979@mygate.mailgate.org:

> I usually do best with Barbarians, but my first ascension was with a
> rogue.

I guess this now means you do best with rogues until you ascend a barb.

> Soon I ditched my +3 elven shield to two-weapon my now +3 silver saber
and my +4 dagger stack.

If you plan on having a stack of enchanted daggers, only wield one of them
and use the rest in the quiver. Wielding more than one does not increase
damage in any way. Just #name "y" the stack "quiver" or something, then
drop all but one and #name "y" that single one wield (or do that the other
way around, I don't care. ;)


> some ending stats and stuff:
> Score 6,981,024. EXPL30, AC-30, maxHPS(368) (was 371 earlier, but
> Death took it down a little)

Wait, as a rouge you let Death touch you? What happened to your stack of
daggers?


> I got real lucky this game with the great bones piles and stuff, and
> meeting no more than 2 Archons. My next goal would be to win the game
> while not being so lucky. Which makes me think an interesting challenge
> (for sometimes later) would be to not use anything from bones piles. It
> could be a pretty tough challenge if done along with wishless conduct.
> I wouldn't try that yet though.

Yeah, you got somewhat lucky with finding things, but you can also look
back at all the stuff you didn't use.

Anyway, congrats on #1. I ascended the first game I had to Medusa, but
that was a valk and was pretty easy once I had done the quest with the Orb
and All. The MKoT also helps as that as at least a half damage artifact.
You may have noticed things hurt a lot less once you managed to get it.

May many more of your games end with lovely singing.

- sawtooth
 

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David Justiss wrote:
> I usually do best with Barbarians, but my first ascension was with a
> rogue.

Congratulations!

> Lured some wraiths from the Valley to the
> castle level, getting myself to about EXPL28.

I could swear I've read that the castle level is considered a graveyard
too, so luring them there doesn't do anything for you. Can anyone
confirm or refute that?

> Yeenoghu was on the next
> level below the valley, and the next few levels I killed a few demon
> princes and accidently bribed Asmodeus. (I offered him less gold than he
> asked for- I didn't think he'd accept it.)

I usually offer him like 1zm, but I've always wondered if he'd accept
something closer to but less than what he asks for. Anyone know what
the threshold is for him to accept?

> On the way out I killed the priest of Moloch in the Valley just for
> kicks.

How chaotic of you!

> On the plane of air I realized I forgot to bring
> my ring of levitation, for some reason I didn't think I'd need it
> anymore after passing Medusa'a level going up.
> <snip> As I mentioned before I
> forgot to bring an oilskin cloak to the plane of water and obviously I
> couldn't go back for it. (that was a little more understandable to
> forget since I've never been to the plane of water before).

So you made it to Air once before but got killed before Water? Bummer.
What happened?

> had 5 total unused
> wishes (not including charging the wands)

Wow, so what's that, like 17 total unused wishes?

> +3 dented pot

Nice!

> My next goal would be to win the game
> while not being so lucky.

Sure, the bones piles were nice, but you only used 4 wishes, and 2 were
just wishes of convenience. (Well, maybe the =oLev was necessary,
since you couldn't have gone back for that even if you'd wanted to.)
But first ascensions usually involve some luck, and I suspect you could
ascend again with just a "normal" level of luck. It took me 2 years to
ascend a valk, and I used 14 wishes in the process (7 from a /oW around
Sokoban), but then ascended a rogue just a month or 2 later with no
special luck.

Anyway, congrats on your first ascension!
 
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Seraphim wrote:

> "David Justiss" <dajustis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "T-Bone" <g56789@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> David Justiss wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lured some wraiths from the Valley to the
>>>> castle level, getting myself to about EXPL28.
>>>
>>> I could swear I've read that the castle level is considered a
>>> graveyard too, so luring them there doesn't do anything for you.
>>> Can anyone confirm or refute that?
>>
>> It worked for me
>
> The castle level is considered a graveyard level as far as the odds of
> wraiths leaving corpses is concerned, so you could have saved yourself
> a lot of time if you had just killed them in the Valley. There are
> generally so many Wraiths in the valley that even 1/9 leaving corpses
> will gain you several levels.

.... which in most cases is plenty, or even more than desirable. For most
classes it's usually around here or soon after that I stop eating wraiths
entirely, if I'm not hard up for enhancement slots. I think my median
ascension level is 18 (although my rogue went all the way up to 28).

--
Benjamin Lewis

Seeing is deceiving. It's eating that's believing.
-- James Thurber
 
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"T-Bone" <g56789@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118836288.233758.201750@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

> David Justiss wrote:
> > Lured some wraiths from the Valley to the
> > castle level, getting myself to about EXPL28.
>
> I could swear I've read that the castle level is considered a graveyard
> too, so luring them there doesn't do anything for you. Can anyone
> confirm or refute that?

It worked for me

> > On the plane of air I realized I forgot to bring
> > my ring of levitation, for some reason I didn't think I'd need it
> > anymore after passing Medusa'a level going up.
> > <snip> As I mentioned before I
> > forgot to bring an oilskin cloak to the plane of water and obviously I
> > couldn't go back for it. (that was a little more understandable to
> > forget since I've never been to the plane of water before).
>
> So you made it to Air once before but got killed before Water? Bummer.
> What happened?

An Archon surrounded me with dragons and air elementals and kept
blinding me. (Did I mention that I didn't like Archons?) Also, that
game I hadn't brought a ring of free action with me. (I don't remember
if archons paralyze you or not). ..and I just wasn't as tough as this
game.

> > had 5 total unused
> > wishes (not including charging the wands)
>
> Wow, so what's that, like 17 total unused wishes?

well one of them had already been charged by the player who was the
ghost I got it from, so it'd be a little less than that.

> > +3 dented pot
>
> Nice!

yeah :)

> > My next goal would be to win the game
> > while not being so lucky.
>
> Sure, the bones piles were nice, but you only used 4 wishes, and 2 were
> just wishes of convenience. (Well, maybe the =oLev was necessary,
> since you couldn't have gone back for that even if you'd wanted to.)
> But first ascensions usually involve some luck, and I suspect you could
> ascend again with just a "normal" level of luck. It took me 2 years to
> ascend a valk, and I used 14 wishes in the process (7 from a /oW around
> Sokoban), but then ascended a rogue just a month or 2 later with no
> special luck.

I've played nethack for about 6 years. It was about 3.5 years before
I found this newsgroup and started reading spoilers. and there were a
couple periods where I played very little for a few months.
I am by no means against being lucky, but it seemed to me that I was
quite unusually lucky this game. But it is nice to look back on how
much of it I didn't need.

> Anyway, congrats on your first ascension!

thank you

Asher


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"David Justiss" <dajustis@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:ba67394f642367a04287d4de8f30b970.119979@mygate.mailgate.org:

> "T-Bone" <g56789@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1118836288.233758.201750@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
>
>> David Justiss wrote:
>> > Lured some wraiths from the Valley to the
>> > castle level, getting myself to about EXPL28.
>>
>> I could swear I've read that the castle level is considered a
>> graveyard too, so luring them there doesn't do anything for you.
>> Can anyone confirm or refute that?
>
> It worked for me

The castle level is considered a graveyard level as far as the odds of
wraiths leaving corpses is concerned, so you could have saved yourself
a lot of time if you had just killed them in the Valley. There are
generally so many Wraiths in the valley that even 1/9 leaving corpses
will gain you several levels.
 
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Seraphim wrote:

> The castle level is considered a graveyard level as far as the odds of
> wraiths leaving corpses is concerned, so you could have saved yourself
> a lot of time if you had just killed them in the Valley. There are
> generally so many Wraiths in the valley that even 1/9 leaving corpses
> will gain you several levels.

Also, having a non-carnivorous pet helps a lot. When it is not you but
your pet that kills a wraith, it has a bigger chance of leaving a
corpse, if I recall correctly. And your pet being non-carnivorous means
that it will leave the corpse for you to eat.

--
Boudewijn.

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
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sawtooth wrote:
> David Justiss wrote:
>
> > Soon I ditched my +3 elven shield to two-weapon my now +3 silver saber
> and my +4 dagger stack.
>
> If you plan on having a stack of enchanted daggers, only wield one of them
> and use the rest in the quiver. Wielding more than one does not increase
> damage in any way. Just #name "y" the stack "quiver" or something, then
> drop all but one and #name "y" that single one wield (or do that the other
> way around, I don't care. ;)

If you name the wielded one it's simpler. Picking up
further unamed ones will automatically stack when
appropriate. Early on it's easy to build up a sizable
stack of uncursed daggers this way and you'll know
your big stack is +0.

Elven daggers are better than regular so as you build
up your stack follow a strategy. Decide how many you'll
use for throwing. Pick up all daggers until you have
that many. Decide whether you'll be dropping cursed
then uncursed and keeping blessed, or you'll be dropping
orcish then regular then elven until you've built up
silver daggers. Silver daggers are so rare nearly
every dagger-throwing character ends up with elven.
I compromise by stashing cursed ones until I'm ready
to do a mass remove curse so I build stacks of orcish
then regular then elven daggers until I only have elven.

Depending on your character type, your goals, what
artifacts you get early, etc, consider naming your
wielded elven dagger Sting. It's a great idea for a
wizard who gets Magicbane first as the first rename
doesn't interfere with the first gift and the sooner
a wizard advances dagger the better. I'm not certain
that's the best strategy for a rogue.
 
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David Justiss wrote:

> "Benjamin Lewis" <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote re gaining lots of levels:
>>
>> ... which in most cases is plenty, or even more than desirable. For
>> most classes it's usually around here or soon after that I stop eating
>> wraiths entirely, if I'm not hard up for enhancement slots. I think my
>> median ascension level is 18 (although my rogue went all the way up to
>> 28).
>
> I thought wraiths never left corpses on graveyard levels. Well, now I
> know better. I think it makes it easier to gain as much levels as I
> can. Other times I've gotten very far I've stayed on lower EXP levels,
> and I just wasn't as tough and never made it. When you get down into
> Ghennom or into the planes you meet all the toughest monsters anyway
> no matter what EXP level you're on.

The higher level monsters still get generated, but on average, the
generated monster level is lower if your experience level is lower. You'll
still meet archons, just not as many of them.

> Is there any other reason to stay
> on low levels? I didn't go past EXPL16 or 17 until I was about to
> enter Ghennom, and then I started drinking a bunch of gain level
> potions and luring wraiths.

Unless you need the levels for things like skill slots or added spell
damage, there is no real reason I can think of to do this unless you're
playing some self-imposed "no alchemy" conduct; this is a much more
effective way to gain hit points. Pretty much every potion of
{full,extra,plain} healing you find can be converted to an additional 8 hit
points to be added to your max.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Seeing is deceiving. It's eating that's believing.
-- James Thurber
 
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"Benjamin Lewis" <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote in message
news:yy7or7f39mru.fsf@css.css.sfu.ca

> Seraphim wrote:
>
> > "David Justiss" <dajustis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> "T-Bone" <g56789@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>> David Justiss wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Lured some wraiths from the Valley to the
> >>>> castle level, getting myself to about EXPL28.

> > The castle level is considered a graveyard level as far as the odds of
> > wraiths leaving corpses is concerned, so you could have saved yourself
> > a lot of time if you had just killed them in the Valley. There are
> > generally so many Wraiths in the valley that even 1/9 leaving corpses
> > will gain you several levels.
>
> ... which in most cases is plenty, or even more than desirable. For most
> classes it's usually around here or soon after that I stop eating wraiths
> entirely, if I'm not hard up for enhancement slots. I think my median
> ascension level is 18 (although my rogue went all the way up to 28).

I thought wraiths never left corpses on graveyard levels. Well, now I
know better. I think it makes it easier to gain as much levels as I
can. Other times I've gotten very far I've stayed on lower EXP levels,
and I just wasn't as tough and never made it. When you get down into
Ghennom or into the planes you meet all the toughest monsters anyway
no matter what EXP level you're on. Is there any other reason to stay
on low levels? I didn't go past EXPL16 or 17 until I was about to
enter Ghennom, and then I started drinking a bunch of gain level
potions and luring wraiths.

Asher


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Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> writes:
> David Justiss wrote:
> > I think it makes it easier to gain as much levels as I
> > can. Other times I've gotten very far I've stayed on lower EXP levels,
> > and I just wasn't as tough and never made it. When you get down into
> > Ghennom or into the planes you meet all the toughest monsters anyway
> > no matter what EXP level you're on.
>
> The higher level monsters still get generated, but on average, the
> generated monster level is lower if your experience level is lower. You'll
> still meet archons, just not as many of them.

This isn't as much the case for Gehennom as you might think. The lower
bound of the monster difficulty range depends solely on DL, not on XL,
until you hit the Planes. And as far as the upper bound's concerned,
once you reach DL 44, an XL of 14 is sufficient to see everything
that's there to be seen. Since random monster generation is uniform
across this range (well, not _uniform, since there's all the other
things affecting frequency; but its uniformity isn't affected by the
location of the endpoints), keeping XL low won't make a great
difference in the deepest depths or on the return run. It _will_ mean
that the monsters generated will have slightly fewer hit dice.

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Its habit of getting up late you'll agree / That it carries too far, :
: when I say / That it frequently breakfasts at five-o'clock tea / And :
: dines on the following day." -- Lewis Carroll, The Hunting of the Snark :