Polymorph Question - possible spoilers

[Guest]

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Is it possible to get Magic Markers from Polymorphing tools?

Why isn't it possible to get gems from glass?
(or is it? I couldn't and after 3 tries I got a golem)

Another thing, when polymorphing tools why are chests
and boxes always locked? Seems weird to me.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

K.V.C wrote:
> Is it possible to get Magic Markers from Polymorphing tools?
>

Very rarely from ordinary tools (around 1% [?]). You usually want to
polymorph magical tools, like unicorn horns.

> Why isn't it possible to get gems from glass?
> (or is it? I couldn't and after 3 tries I got a golem)
>

This is also very rare (also around 1% [?]).

It's not possible because... well, gems aren't glass.

> Another thing, when polymorphing tools why are chests
> and boxes always locked? Seems weird to me.
>

Because they're generated locked?

Doesn't seem too weird.

--
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/ \ (oo) -Zarel
|Moo. > \/
\____/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Zarel wrote:
> K.V.C wrote:
>
> > Is it possible to get Magic Markers from Polymorphing tools?
>
> Very rarely from ordinary tools (around 1% [?]). You usually want to
> polymorph magical tools, like unicorn horns.

The last time I read through the source code for this
was 3.3.1 not 3.4.2. I could find no mention of how
an object being magical or not effected polymorph.
What did I miss? What I saw was that magical objects
are less common than mundane objects, so in general
magical ones convert to mundane far more often than
mundane to magical.

 

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"Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com> writes:
> Zarel wrote:
> > K.V.C wrote:
> >
> > > Is it possible to get Magic Markers from Polymorphing tools?
> >
> > Very rarely from ordinary tools (around 1% [?]). You usually want to
> > polymorph magical tools, like unicorn horns.
>
> The last time I read through the source code for this
> was 3.3.1 not 3.4.2. I could find no mention of how
> an object being magical or not effected polymorph.
> What did I miss? What I saw was that magical objects
> are less common than mundane objects, so in general
> magical ones convert to mundane far more often than
> mundane to magical.

You missed this part of poly_obj():

int try_limit = 3;
/* Try up to 3 times to make the magic-or-not status of
the new item be the same as it was for the old one. */
otmp = (struct obj *)0;
do {
if (otmp) delobj(otmp);
otmp = mkobj(obj->oclass, FALSE);
} while (--try_limit > 0 &&
objects[obj->otyp].oc_magic != objects[otmp->otyp].oc_magic);

(It hasn't changed between 3.3.1 and 3.4.3.)

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Its habit of getting up late you'll agree / That it carries too far, :
: when I say / That it frequently breakfasts at five-o'clock tea / And :
: dines on the following day." -- Lewis Carroll, The Hunting of the Snark :

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

From 'possible spoilers' we have now advanced to 'definite spoilers'.

In news:<JPydnXYBDdac6irfRVn-qw@comcast.com>, Zarel
<nospam@mailinator.com> says...
> K.V.C wrote:
> > Is it possible to get Magic Markers from Polymorphing tools?
> Very rarely from ordinary tools (around 1% [?]). You usually want to
> polymorph magical tools, like unicorn horns.

According to the polypiling section of the wands spoiler
(<http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/wan2-343.txt>), when
polymorphing non-magical tools there is a 0.3% chance that they will be
turned into magical ones. (The reverse chance is 60%.)
And after this 0.3% chance I think there is roughly a 1/10 chance of the
magic tool being a magic marker.

> > Why isn't it possible to get gems from glass?
> > (or is it? I couldn't and after 3 tries I got a golem)
> This is also very rare (also around 1% [?]).
> It's not possible because... well, gems aren't glass.

This is a different thing because it is not a matter of non-magical->
magical conversion, so you will find it much easier. I think you must
not have tried many times if you did not get any gems. Took me three
tries in wizard mode.
First take a look at the polypiling section again. You see that it
states that the chance of non-magical gems/stones (including
'worthless' ones) becoming magical ones is 'negligible'. So we can
concentrate on the relative chances of types of gems/stones being
generated.
Judging by the gems spoiler (<http://www.spod-central.org/
~psmith/nh/gems-343.txt>) I'd say that when a gem/stone is generated
there is roughly a 1/5 chance that it will be a gem not of the
'worthless' types. Note that more valuable gems are not generated in the
upper levels of the dungeon. Try polymorphing your glas another time.

You say you got a golem. Time to take another look at the polypiling
section. This is an important part, iron golems can be mean:
"You will eventually lose some objects. Items appearing in quantities
of 2 or more have a (quantity in 1000) chance of merging into one
object.
Items also have a probability of "shuddering": 1/3 if a wand or cursed,
1/8 if uncursed, 1/12 if blessed (if in quantities greater than 4, 100%,
1/4, and 1/6, respectively). This will decrease the quantity of the
item randomly, cause any remainder not to be polymorphed, and has a one
in (luck + 45) chance per object of creating a golem from the material
of the shuddered item (provided at least two items total remain in the
pile)."

> > Another thing, when polymorphing tools why are chests
> > and boxes always locked? Seems weird to me.
> Because they're generated locked?
> Doesn't seem too weird.

I don't think it is always like this, I think(!) that it follows the
container generation rules as detailed in the tools spoiler
(<http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/tool-343.txt>):
"If the container can be LOCKED, then there is an 80% chance that it
will be generated locked and a different 10% chance that it will be
trapped."

Have the OP tried enough times to judge that a 100% chance of being
locked is more probable?

/Kristoffer

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