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How essential are Gauntlets of Power for Valkyries?

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Anonymous
June 23, 2005 2:10:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Here's my situation. I'm currently dual-wielding Frost Brand and a
silver saber. Upon examining my equipment the only bit of metal I have
on me is gauntlets of power. It's pretty annoying because I have to
take it off during combat to cast spells, and then sometimes I forget
to put it back on, etc. At least I genocided footrices awhile ago.
Anyway, what exactly is the point of gauntlets of power for a valkyrie?
I know with 25 strength you can throw your Mjollnir and have it return
to you, but that style of combat doesn't appeal to me; I'd much rather
use swords and use spells for ranged. Without the gauntlets of power I
still have 18/** strength (thank you Valkyrie quest), so I'm thinking I
can go without it. Then I could swap it out for Gauntlets of Dexterity
and not mess up my spells quite so badly.

I kind of have a dilemma right now though. My current setup is AoLS,
SDSM, CoMR, gauntlets of power. If I really want to be a spellcaster,
to do it right, I'd want to wear a robe (still haven't found one yet,
but I'm willing to kill as many puddings as it takes). So I'd change
my setup to AoR, GDSM, robe, and gauntlets of dexterity. Does this
sound like a good idea? I gain better spellcasting ability but lose my
stupid-proofing. Luckily for me I already have a fully enchanted GDSM
and gauntlets of dexterity in my stash from a previous build that used
shield of reflection.

Is there any particular way to find a robe besides just killing lots of
stuff? I'd really hate to burn one of my two remaining wishes on a
robe (I'd much rather go for magic markers, for instance). Also, is
there a difference between the item and corpse drop rate of brown and
black puddings? Thanks.

More about : essential gauntlets power valkyries

Anonymous
June 23, 2005 2:23:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:
> Here's my situation. I'm currently dual-wielding Frost Brand and a
> silver saber. Upon examining my equipment the only bit of metal I have
> on me is gauntlets of power. It's pretty annoying because I have to
> take it off during combat to cast spells, and then sometimes I forget
> to put it back on, etc. At least I genocided footrices awhile ago.
> Anyway, what exactly is the point of gauntlets of power for a valkyrie?

It's not essential at all, especially considering all a Valk's other
advantages. According to the 3.00 spoilers (which naturally may not
sill apply), the damage bonuses for 18/** and 25 are both +6. But even
if it's different now, a Valk is capable enough (especially with their
quest artifact, which grants both half spell damange AND half physical
damage) to win the game without much trouble, even with no weapon
artifact. Of course every player is different, but Valks are
well-known for being one of the easiest classes to play.

- John H.
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 2:41:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:
> Here's my situation. I'm currently dual-wielding Frost Brand and a
> silver saber. Upon examining my equipment the only bit of metal I have
> on me is gauntlets of power. It's pretty annoying because I have to
> take it off during combat to cast spells, and then sometimes I forget
> to put it back on, etc. At least I genocided footrices awhile ago.
> Anyway, what exactly is the point of gauntlets of power for a valkyrie?
> I know with 25 strength you can throw your Mjollnir and have it return
> to you, but that style of combat doesn't appeal to me; I'd much rather
> use swords and use spells for ranged. Without the gauntlets of power I
> still have 18/** strength (thank you Valkyrie quest), so I'm thinking I
> can go without it. Then I could swap it out for Gauntlets of Dexterity
> and not mess up my spells quite so badly.

This sounds quite logical. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but
you'll suffer a slight penalty to damage bonuses. Given what you're
using for weaponry, though, I'd say you won't see much negative effect
dropping the GoP.

> I kind of have a dilemma right now though. My current setup is AoLS,
> SDSM, CoMR, gauntlets of power. If I really want to be a spellcaster,
> to do it right, I'd want to wear a robe (still haven't found one yet,
> but I'm willing to kill as many puddings as it takes). So I'd change
> my setup to AoR, GDSM, robe, and gauntlets of dexterity. Does this
> sound like a good idea? I gain better spellcasting ability but lose my
> stupid-proofing. Luckily for me I already have a fully enchanted GDSM
> and gauntlets of dexterity in my stash from a previous build that used
> shield of reflection.

If you use the spellcasting fully to your advantage, it's my opinion
that the "oLS is unnecessary. I've had 7 ascensions, some wearing "oLS
at the end and others without, and had my life saved exactly 0 times.
Your mileage may, and probably will, vary.

> Is there any particular way to find a robe besides just killing lots of
> stuff? I'd really hate to burn one of my two remaining wishes on a
> robe (I'd much rather go for magic markers, for instance). Also, is
> there a difference between the item and corpse drop rate of brown and
> black puddings? Thanks.

Yes, there are other ways to acquire a robe if you are in need. Priests
in temples often wear them, or so I've heard.

-Ken
Related resources
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 2:49:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:

> Here's my situation. I'm currently dual-wielding Frost Brand and a
> silver saber. Upon examining my equipment the only bit of metal I have
> on me is gauntlets of power. It's pretty annoying because I have to
> take it off during combat to cast spells, and then sometimes I forget
> to put it back on, etc. At least I genocided footrices awhile ago.
> Anyway, what exactly is the point of gauntlets of power for a valkyrie?
> I know with 25 strength you can throw your Mjollnir and have it return
> to you, but that style of combat doesn't appeal to me; I'd much rather
> use swords and use spells for ranged. Without the gauntlets of power I
> still have 18/** strength (thank you Valkyrie quest), so I'm thinking I
> can go without it. Then I could swap it out for Gauntlets of Dexterity
> and not mess up my spells quite so badly.

I think you just answered your own question very well :) 

> I kind of have a dilemma right now though. My current setup is AoLS,
> SDSM, CoMR, gauntlets of power. If I really want to be a spellcaster,
> to do it right, I'd want to wear a robe (still haven't found one yet,
> but I'm willing to kill as many puddings as it takes). So I'd change
> my setup to AoR, GDSM, robe, and gauntlets of dexterity. Does this
> sound like a good idea? I gain better spellcasting ability but lose my
> stupid-proofing.

I guess this depends on how much you think you need the "stupid proofing";
I rarely bother to wear AoLS. I think there are better uses for this slot,
such as AoR or AoESP.

> Luckily for me I already have a fully enchanted GDSM and gauntlets of
> dexterity in my stash from a previous build that used shield of
> reflection.

Then I'd definitely do this. If I wasn't trying to improve any
spell-failure rates, I'd go for a cloak of displacement instead of the
robe.

> Is there any particular way to find a robe besides just killing lots of
> stuff? I'd really hate to burn one of my two remaining wishes on a
> robe (I'd much rather go for magic markers, for instance).

Just kill any priest(ess) (e.g. Moloch's priest in the VotD), or get a
powerful enough pet to do it for you.

--
Benjamin Lewis

"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips
over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
--Matt Groening
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 3:05:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Lars Kecke wrote:

> Priests usually (6/7) come with robes.

Huh -- I don't recall ever seeing a priest not leave a robe. Live and
learn! (or more often in NetHack, Die and Learn!)

--
Benjamin Lewis

"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips
over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
--Matt Groening
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 3:05:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:

> Is there any particular way to find a robe besides just killing lots of
> stuff? I'd really hate to burn one of my two remaining wishes on a
> robe (I'd much rather go for magic markers, for instance). Also, is
> there a difference between the item and corpse drop rate of brown and
> black puddings? Thanks.

Wouldn't you know it? I'm going back through the dungeon searching for
any spellbooks or robes I may have left behind when I realize level 3
curiously has nothing on one side. So soon enough I find a hidden
door, which leads to a closed shop, which I open by casting knock ...
and it is a 4x13 used armor dealership! And wouldn't you know it, it
has a robe for sale. Excellent. I also found an amulet of reflection.
So it looks like I won't have to wish for anything to complete my
second kit.
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 4:53:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Benjamin Lewis wrote:
> Lars Kecke wrote:
>
> > Priests usually (6/7) come with robes.
>
> Huh -- I don't recall ever seeing a priest not leave a robe. Live and
> learn! (or more often in NetHack, Die and Learn!)

So how do you kill priests? If you kill a cross-aligned priest, does
your God let you get away with it? Or do you have to do it by proxy?
Can you kill a co-aligned priest by proxy? I've never killed a priest
before ... the few times I tried, it was bloody, and now that I'm
actually strong enough to do it on my own, I don't want to risk
becoming a murderer and losing my protection.
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 4:57:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Benjamin Lewis wrote:
> Cyde Weys wrote:

> > Is there any particular way to find a robe besides just killing lots of
> > stuff? I'd really hate to burn one of my two remaining wishes on a
> > robe (I'd much rather go for magic markers, for instance).
>
> Just kill any priest(ess) (e.g. Moloch's priest in the VotD), or get a
> powerful enough pet to do it for you.

Well I already got a robe, but I'd still like to kill a priest anyway
because it's something I've never done before. I donated a LOT of
money to the minetown priest; could I kill him, get the money back,
donate it to Moloch's priest, and then kill Moloch's priest? I know
I'll have to get my pet to kill the priest in Minetown since it's
co-aligned, but can I just go swinging away at Moloch's priest in the
Valley of the Dead, or will I become a murderer?
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 5:14:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:

>
>
> Benjamin Lewis wrote:
>> Cyde Weys wrote:
>
>>> Is there any particular way to find a robe besides just killing lots of
>>> stuff? I'd really hate to burn one of my two remaining wishes on a
>>> robe (I'd much rather go for magic markers, for instance).
>>
>> Just kill any priest(ess) (e.g. Moloch's priest in the VotD), or get a
>> powerful enough pet to do it for you.
>
> Well I already got a robe, but I'd still like to kill a priest anyway
> because it's something I've never done before. I donated a LOT of
> money to the minetown priest; could I kill him, get the money back,
> donate it to Moloch's priest, and then kill Moloch's priest? I know
> I'll have to get my pet to kill the priest in Minetown since it's
> co-aligned, but can I just go swinging away at Moloch's priest in the
> Valley of the Dead, or will I become a murderer?

I'd get a pet to do your dirty work if you have one powerful enough, but:

From http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/:

The penalty for killing a peaceful monster is one or more of loss of
protection, loss of telepathy, reduced luck and reduced alignment,
depending on the type of peaceful monster killed.

* Loss of protection is very rare as a penalty for killing peaceful
monsters. It only happens if you kill a coaligned priest. (The
commonest cause of lost protection is angering your god.)

* Loss of telepathy is the penalty for killing a peaceful human if
you're not chaotic. The message associated with this is ``You
murderer!'' and you will also lose two points of Luck.

--
Benjamin Lewis

"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips
over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
--Matt Groening
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 5:17:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Benjamin Lewis wrote:

>> Well I already got a robe, but I'd still like to kill a priest anyway
>> because it's something I've never done before. I donated a LOT of
>> money to the minetown priest; could I kill him, get the money back,
>> donate it to Moloch's priest, and then kill Moloch's priest? I know
>> I'll have to get my pet to kill the priest in Minetown since it's
>> co-aligned, but can I just go swinging away at Moloch's priest in the
>> Valley of the Dead, or will I become a murderer?
>
> I'd get a pet to do your dirty work if you have one powerful enough, but:
>
> From http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/:
>
> The penalty for killing a peaceful monster is one or more of loss of
> protection, loss of telepathy, reduced luck and reduced alignment,
> depending on the type of peaceful monster killed.
>
> * Loss of protection is very rare as a penalty for killing peaceful
> monsters. It only happens if you kill a coaligned priest. (The
> commonest cause of lost protection is angering your god.)
>
> * Loss of telepathy is the penalty for killing a peaceful human if
> you're not chaotic. The message associated with this is ``You
> murderer!'' and you will also lose two points of Luck.

Oh, and look at this too:

# Killing a peaceful monster tends to carry a large alignment penalty. If
# the monster is a type which is always peaceful (shopkeepers, priests, the
# Oracle, vault guards, watchmen and watch captains, quest leaders and
# guardians, prisoners, members of friendly races) the penalty is at least
# -15, except that there is no alignment penalty for killing peaceful
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# priests of Moloch. If it is peaceful because it is coaligned, the penalty
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# is at least -9. These penalties only apply to monsters created peaceful,
# not ones which have subsequently been made so.

--
Benjamin Lewis

"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips
over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
--Matt Groening
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 5:24:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:
>
> Benjamin Lewis wrote:
>
>>Cyde Weys wrote:
>
>
>>>Is there any particular way to find a robe besides just killing lots of
>>>stuff? I'd really hate to burn one of my two remaining wishes on a
>>>robe (I'd much rather go for magic markers, for instance).
>>
>>Just kill any priest(ess) (e.g. Moloch's priest in the VotD), or get a
>>powerful enough pet to do it for you.
>
>
> Well I already got a robe, but I'd still like to kill a priest anyway
> because it's something I've never done before. I donated a LOT of
> money to the minetown priest; could I kill him, get the money back,
> donate it to Moloch's priest, and then kill Moloch's priest? I know
> I'll have to get my pet to kill the priest in Minetown since it's
> co-aligned, but can I just go swinging away at Moloch's priest in the
> Valley of the Dead, or will I become a murderer?
>

You will be a murderer if you directly kill peaceful priests/priestesses
in temples, regardless of their relative alignment to you. One
consequence of being a murderer is losing intrinsic telepathy. The
method I have always employed when it comes to retrieving gold from the
Minetown priest for buying protection in other temples (and washing,
rinsing and repeating when there are temples in the main dungeon) is a
powerful pet.

For any who wish to be less spoiled, I'm encoding the following: Xvyyvat
rira gur Uvtu Cevrfg bs Zbybpu va Zbybpu'f Fnapghz pna znxr lbh n
zheqrere vs lbh nggnpx jura ur/fur vf crnprshy. Gur ynfg gvzr V qvq guvf
ba na nfprafvba eha V sbhaq vg unaql gb erirefr trabpvqr sybngvat rlrf...

-Ken
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 7:44:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Ken Cuvelier wrote:

> You will be a murderer if you directly kill peaceful priests/priestesses
> in temples, regardless of their relative alignment to you.

.... if you're not chaotic.

--
Benjamin Lewis

"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips
over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
--Matt Groening
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 9:21:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:27:29 +0200
Lars Kecke <kecke@physik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote:

> OK, That's the whole point of GoP. For all other purposes Str. 25
> behaves just like 18/**.

Are encumbrance limits the same for both 18/** and 25?

--Todd
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 11:27:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:
> Here's my situation. I'm currently dual-wielding Frost Brand and a
> silver saber. Upon examining my equipment the only bit of metal I have
> on me is gauntlets of power. It's pretty annoying because I have to
> take it off during combat to cast spells, and then sometimes I forget
> to put it back on, etc.

So don't do that then (TM).

> At least I genocided footrices awhile ago.
> Anyway, what exactly is the point of gauntlets of power for a valkyrie?
> I know with 25 strength you can throw your Mjollnir and have it return
> to you, but that style of combat doesn't appeal to me;

OK, That's the whole point of GoP. For all other purposes Str. 25
behaves just like 18/**.

> I kind of have a dilemma right now though. My current setup is AoLS,
> SDSM, CoMR, gauntlets of power. If I really want to be a spellcaster,
> to do it right, I'd want to wear a robe (still haven't found one yet,
> but I'm willing to kill as many puddings as it takes).

Priests usually (6/7) come with robes.

> So I'd change
> my setup to AoR, GDSM, robe, and gauntlets of dexterity. Does this
> sound like a good idea?

Yes. AoLS are overrated anyway. What can kill you once usually is able
to kill you twice.

Lars
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 12:54:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 01:31:58 +0200
Kristoffer Björkman <kristoffer.bjorkman@frontnet.org> wrote:

> AFAIK base carrying capacity is calculated by ((Str+Con)/2+1)*50. But
> there is an upper cap of 1000 on this value!

Very useful information - thank you! You seem to be a bit uncertain,
though - can anyone else confirm this?

--
Todd Pytel
June 24, 2005 1:47:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1119546640.196328.104590@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> wrote:

> I know with 25 strength you can throw your Mjollnir and have it return
>to you, but that style of combat doesn't appeal to me;

Well, that's the big deal about GoP for a Valk. You're opting out of
the chief benefit for that class, and taking an unusal approach of
spellcasting with a character that really wants to be a fighter.

Nothing wrong with that.
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 2:27:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

fishbowl@conservatory.com (james) wrote in news:i6Gue.1399$8o.491
@fed1read03:

> In article <1119546640.196328.104590@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> wrote:
>
>> I know with 25 strength you can throw your Mjollnir and have it return
>>to you, but that style of combat doesn't appeal to me;
>
> Well, that's the big deal about GoP for a Valk. You're opting out of
> the chief benefit for that class, and taking an unusal approach of
> spellcasting with a character that really wants to be a fighter.

I've already played three cookie-cutter valkyries like that who died
extremely lame deaths*. Now I'm trying something different that I find
more fun, and I think it's working. Heck, in all RPGs, I find ranged
classes MUCH more fun and interesting than melee. Screw Mjollnir, give me
cone of cold any day!

> Nothing wrong with that.

You, sir, know the true spirit of Nethack. Congratulations.



*Stupid deaths are as follows:

1) Valkyrie with full Ascension kit deep in Gehennom who got wiped when I
upgraded Nethack and forgot that make install overwrites the entire
directory.
2) Valkyrie with full Ascension kit deep in Gehennom who choked on a
@#$%ing lizard corpse. And no, I wasn't being stoned. Stop laughing.
3) Valkyrie with partial Ascension kit (after many thousands of turns of
pudding farming) who mistepped in the quest level and sank in the lava.
This time when I did the quest, I was wearing boots of levitation AND a
ring of levitation just to make sure that didn't happen again.

--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 4:26:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:
> Cyde Weys wrote:
>
>>Is there any particular way to find a robe besides just killing lots of
>>stuff? I'd really hate to burn one of my two remaining wishes on a
>>robe (I'd much rather go for magic markers, for instance). Also, is
>>there a difference between the item and corpse drop rate of brown and
>>black puddings? Thanks.
>
> Wouldn't you know it? I'm going back through the dungeon searching for
> any spellbooks or robes I may have left behind when I realize level 3
> curiously has nothing on one side. So soon enough I find a hidden
> door, which leads to a closed shop, which I open by casting knock ...
> and it is a 4x13 used armor dealership! And wouldn't you know it, it
> has a robe for sale. Excellent. I also found an amulet of reflection.
> So it looks like I won't have to wish for anything to complete my
> second kit.

That sounds like a fairy tale... - could that really be that cruel game
of Nethack that we all know?!

Janis
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 5:31:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In news:<20050623172130.68d5c918.tppytel@nospam.org>, Todd Pytel
<tppytel@nospam.org> says...
> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:27:29 +0200
> Lars Kecke <kecke@physik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote:
> > OK, That's the whole point of GoP. For all other purposes Str. 25
> > behaves just like 18/**.
> Are encumbrance limits the same for both 18/** and 25?

No.

AFAIK base carrying capacity is calculated by ((Str+Con)/2+1)*50. But
there is an upper cap of 1000 on this value!

18/xx Str is counted as:
18/01-18/31 -> 19
18/32-18/81 -> 20
18/82-18/** -> 21

With 18 Con (no reason to have less if not an elf) you hit the cap
already at 18/32 (-> 20) Str. 18/** could be nice to have a small buffer
for situations when Con is lowered. As a 16 Con elf you would want 22+
Str to be at your maximum carrying capacity, as a 20 Con dwarf a normal
(non-/xx) 18 Str is enough. AFAIK.

/Kristoffer

--
This cookie has a scrap of paper inside. It reads:
Gurl fnl gung lbh pna genva n qbt ol gnyxvat svezyl gb vg.
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 12:12:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu>:
>Anyway, what exactly is the point of gauntlets of power for a valkyrie?
> I know with 25 strength you can throw your Mjollnir and have it return
>to you, but that style of combat doesn't appeal to me;

That *is* the point - it's a melee-power attack at range.

If that doesn't appeal, may as well use GoDex. GoP are most use early on
(for all classes) when the character's unaugmented strength is lower.

>I kind of have a dilemma right now though. My current setup is AoLS,
>SDSM, CoMR, gauntlets of power. If I really want to be a spellcaster,
>to do it right, I'd want to wear a robe (still haven't found one yet,
>but I'm willing to kill as many puddings as it takes). So I'd change
>my setup to AoR, GDSM, robe, and gauntlets of dexterity. Does this
>sound like a good idea?

For a Valkyrie? No. Short of pudding farming, a Valkyrie's mana reserve
will usually be a bit dismal for combat spellcasting, and her chances are
so low that you have to go to enormous effort with equipment, and even
then you're not going to be using the high-level stuff like the Finger and
cancellation.

I think combat wombats should reserve spells for utility use - mapping,
identification, removing curses - and it's much more practical to keep a
special spellcasting outfit and accept non-zero failure chances when you
only use spells periodically.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Epithumia, Presuary - a weekend.
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 12:13:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Todd Pytel <tppytel@nospam.org>:
>Kristoffer Bj=F6rkman <kristoffer.bjorkman@frontnet.org> wrote:
>>AFAIK base carrying capacity is calculated by ((Str+Con)/2+1)*50. But
>>there is an upper cap of 1000 on this value!
>Very useful information - thank you! You seem to be a bit uncertain,
>though - can anyone else confirm this?

I can't confirm the precise numbers off the top of my head, but he's quite
right that with maxed Con, 18/** is as good at 25 Str for carrying
capacity.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Epithumia, Presuary - a weekend.
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 12:17:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu>:
>extremely lame deaths*. Now I'm trying something different that I find
>more fun, and I think it's working. Heck, in all RPGs, I find ranged
>classes MUCH more fun and interesting than melee. Screw Mjollnir, give me
>cone of cold any day!

But, look, a Valk with Mjollnir _is_ a ranged class. And it's not an RPG.

I'm just grousing about RPGs, but seriously, you've GOT a ranged weapon
and a damn good one.

>2) Valkyrie with full Ascension kit deep in Gehennom who choked on a
>@#$%ing lizard corpse. And no, I wasn't being stoned. Stop laughing.

6 392754 Kirsty-V choked on her food
in The Dungeons of Doom on level 26 [max 27]. 157 [157]
Choked on a quick snack.

That's a potion of fruit juice in the Castle (and that can't even HAPPEN
any more), the game before I ascended for the first time.

>3) Valkyrie with partial Ascension kit (after many thousands of turns of
>pudding farming)

Karmic retribution, then?
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Epithumia, Presuary - a weekend.
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 12:17:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:
> Benjamin Lewis wrote:
> > Lars Kecke wrote:
>
> > > Priests usually (6/7) come with robes.
>
> > Huh -- I don't recall ever seeing a priest not leave a robe. Live and
> > learn! (or more often in NetHack, Die and Learn!)

I've had priests leave my [oMR in their wills so the
6/7 seems right. I just looked up the chance of a
robe appearing randomly and it's probability is 3.
Displacement is 10 and MR is 2, so robes aren't all
that rare randomly.

> So how do you kill priests? If you kill a cross-aligned priest, does
> your God let you get away with it? Or do you have to do it by proxy?
> Can you kill a co-aligned priest by proxy? I've never killed a priest
> before ... the few times I tried, it was bloody, and now that I'm
> actually strong enough to do it on my own, I don't want to risk
> becoming a murderer and losing my protection.

I've killed a fair number of cross-aligned minetown
priests over the years. I'll only do it after getting
to mines end to be strong enough, but lacking any other
altar until Medusa I'll even do it with a lawfull
character. It blows away your devine protection so
if you encounter a cross-aligned priest and plan to
kill him purchasing protection only lasts until you've
killed him/her. It might be your last chance to
purchase protection until the VotD under the Castle
but if you haven't found any other altar it may be
worth it.

Use a wand of digging to wipe out a wall 3 squares from
the altar. Stack lots of rocks, every arrow, dart,
glass and whatever you can in those squares. Have a
*vast* array of projectiles. Then start lifting missiles
and start throwing them at the priest. Stay where the
wall was and you'll be out of range for devine wrath.
Don't use wands that will trash magical items held by
the priest unless you have to. All of the darts, arrows
and such and a could hundred rocks and glass will be
plenty to kill the priest. I only use daggers after I
run out of everything else and after I've shuttled
every single rock from Medusa on that's never been
ncessary. Then convert the cross-aligned altar and
start your sac-fest. It will cost purchased protection,
telepathy and luck in the worst case so be prepared
for a bit of work to earn it all back. Also a couple
of tins of floating eye meat are a wonderfull thing to
have in your bag.

Letting your pet works fine as well but a large dog
often won't try it even after reaching mines end.
Poly traps to get a more powerfull pet work well.

With MR, good AC and you name it, toe to toe melee
still risks devine wrath so you'd need several types
of resistance before taking out a priest.
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 12:41:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> writes:

> I kind of have a dilemma right now though. My current setup is AoLS,
> SDSM, CoMR, gauntlets of power. If I really want to be a spellcaster,
> to do it right, I'd want to wear a robe (still haven't found one yet,
> but I'm willing to kill as many puddings as it takes). So I'd change
> my setup to AoR, GDSM, robe, and gauntlets of dexterity. Does this
> sound like a good idea?

Sounds good to me. The only difference between Str 25 and 18/**
I am aware of is that you can't throw Mjollnir any longer, but
usually one doen't do that anyway.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 1:44:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Doug Freyburger wrote:

> I've killed a fair number of cross-aligned minetown priests over the
> years. I'll only do it after getting to mines end to be strong enough,
> but lacking any other altar until Medusa I'll even do it with a lawfull
> character. It blows away your devine protection

No it doesn't. There are other bad consequences (e.g. loss of telepathy),
but you only lose protection of you kill a coaligned priest, or anger your
god in some other way such as by donning a helm of OA.

This is described in more detail in Eva's "Myths and Facts" page; I
recently posted an excerpt elsewhere in the thread.

--
Benjamin Lewis

"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips
over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
--Matt Groening
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 2:06:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 24 Jun 2005 08:13:56 +0100 (BST)
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> I can't confirm the precise numbers off the top of my head, but he's
> quite right that with maxed Con, 18/** is as good at 25 Str for
> carrying capacity.

Cool. Thanks, David.

--
Todd Pytel
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 11:52:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu>:
>
> >I kind of have a dilemma right now though. My current setup is AoLS,
> >SDSM, CoMR, gauntlets of power. If I really want to be a spellcaster,
> >to do it right, I'd want to wear a robe (still haven't found one yet,
> >but I'm willing to kill as many puddings as it takes). So I'd change
> >my setup to AoR, GDSM, robe, and gauntlets of dexterity. Does this
> >sound like a good idea?
>
> For a Valkyrie? No. Short of pudding farming, a Valkyrie's mana reserve
> will usually be a bit dismal for combat spellcasting, and her chances are
> so low that you have to go to enormous effort with equipment, and even
> then you're not going to be using the high-level stuff like the Finger and
> cancellation.

Valks get a bonus for casting cone of cold, so it's the
one combat spell that might end up reliable enough to
cast in melee. When casting at range any attack spell
with a reasonably low failure rate will do fine. Throw
a few Expert highly enchanted nuclear tipped daggers,
cast an attack spell, lather rinse repeat until the
monster dies or comes face to face to deal with your
Frosty and whatever in twoweapon mode.

> I think combat wombats should reserve spells for utility use - mapping,
> identification, removing curses - and it's much more practical to keep a
> special spellcasting outfit and accept non-zero failure chances when you
> only use spells periodically.

If your special spell casting outfit works as your
regular combat outfit, so much the better. "oR for
reflection, GSDM for MR, robe for MC=3, shirt, speed
boots, dex gloves, [oB. Once all highly enchanted
it works fine for a lot of character classes.

With combat wombat classes the number of spell
schools that can be enhanced is short. For the
non-combat spells lower failure rate isn't too
much an issue.
!