Shades, d@mnit!

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Ok, I thought Shades put you too sleep. I had a very good game going,
-26AC lvl16 Valk 108hp +5 Sunsword, +3 Moj, Shild of reflection, Helm of
Telepathy Cloak of Displacement
Grey Dragon Scale mail lots of good stuff, cleaned out the Fort, moved on to
the Castle and then through the first 5 or
6 levels of Gehennom. Asmodeus, Juiblex, Baalzebub all killed without them
even hitting me for more than a couple of hp.
Then I went down some stairs, into the town, was surrounded by Shades and a
couple of vrocks (I wasn't on the stairway,
I was pushed off when I came down I guess) and was quickly killed, three
times! 2 Amulets of Life Saving, Now
according to my trusty wand of elightenment I thought I was immune to
sleep(I had looked in the castle before falling
down.) , but I guess not. Unless I have their power wrong..

Couple of questions.
1> How do you genocide Shades. I play with tiles so I don't know
their letter. I had genocided L, h (mind flayers and liches) and had
another blessed scroll..

2> What is the incopacitating power of Shades?

3> How do I get the intrinsic I need to be immune to them?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

K. V. C. wrote:

> Ok, I thought Shades put you too sleep. I had a very good game going,
> -26AC lvl16 Valk 108hp +5 Sunsword, +3 Moj, Shild of reflection, Helm of
> Telepathy Cloak of Displacement Grey Dragon Scale mail lots of good
> stuff, cleaned out the Fort, moved on to the Castle and then through the
> first 5 or 6 levels of Gehennom. Asmodeus, Juiblex, Baalzebub all killed
> without them even hitting me for more than a couple of hp. Then I went
> down some stairs, into the town, was surrounded by Shades and a couple of
> vrocks (I wasn't on the stairway, I was pushed off when I came down I
> guess) and was quickly killed, three times! 2 Amulets of Life Saving,
> Now according to my trusty wand of elightenment I thought I was immune to
> sleep(I had looked in the castle before falling down.) , but I guess
> not. Unless I have their power wrong..
>
> Couple of questions.
> 1> How do you genocide Shades. I play with tiles so I don't know
> their letter. I had genocided L, h (mind flayers and liches) and had
> another blessed scroll..

You can't genocide shades. Their letter is " " (space).

> 2> What is the incopacitating power of Shades?

They have a paralysis attack. They can also remove your intrinsic speed.

> 3> How do I get the intrinsic I need to be immune to them?

A ring of free action will prevent the paralysis, and as far as I know,
nothing else will (save not being hit by them in the first place, of
course!). Magic cancellation will reduce the chance of the attack being
successful, so an MC3 cloak might be better here if you don't have free
action.

--
Benjamin Lewis

"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips
over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
--Matt Groening

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

K.V.C wrote:
> 1> How do you genocide Shades. I play with tiles so I don't know
> their letter. I had genocided L, h (mind flayers and liches) and had
> another blessed scroll..

They're not genocidable.

> 2> What is the incopacitating power of Shades?

Paralyzation, which differs from sleep.

> 3> How do I get the intrinsic I need to be immune to them?

Rings of free action confer the resistance you need to avoid the
paralyzation. It is not possible to gain free action by eating such
rings, though - you need to wear one.

-Ken

 

[seraphim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"K.V.C" <kvc627@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:Rl0ve.12440$eM6.3045@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

> Couple of questions.
> 1> How do you genocide Shades.

You don't.

> 2> What is the incopacitating power of Shades?

They paralyse you.
They will also slow you, but I don't think that is your problem.

> 3> How do I get the intrinsic I need to be immune to them?

Wear a ring of free action.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kristoffer Björkman wrote:

> I'd say you'll benefit more from trying to keep magic cancellation lvl 3
> up. Like Benjamin and David recommended. Do you usually go this deep
> without MC3? I will almost always try to wear an MC3 cloak (elven, MR,
> prot, robe and oilskin) if I'm not wearing mithril.

I often prefer a cloak of displacement; in almost all other cases the MC3
isn't so important. However, after reading this thread, I'll probably swap
over to an MC3 cloak for this particular level if I don't happen to have
free action.

--
Benjamin Lewis

"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips
over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
--Matt Groening

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Seraphim wrote:
> "K.V.C" <kvc627@earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:Rl0ve.12440$eM6.3045@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>
>>Couple of questions.
>>1> How do you genocide Shades.
>
> You don't.
>
>>2> What is the incopacitating power of Shades?
>
> They paralyse you.
> They will also slow you, but I don't think that is your problem.

It *is* a problem, as he seems to be _surrounded_ by shades and
other critters; becoming slow means that more paralysis attacks
get through.

>>3> How do I get the intrinsic I need to be immune to them?
>
> Wear a ring of free action.

And have a wand of speed monster at hand.

You may also try to cancel the monsters special attacks. Though
not sure how effective a wand of cancellation actually is against
shades - it may be a waste.

I never had problem with shades - ignoring the first encounter
with them ;-) Fighting them sequentially is usually possible -
retreat in cases - and having a wand of speed monster zapped at
yourself is always effective.

Janis

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

K.V.C wrote:
>
> Couple of questions.
> 1> How do you genocide Shades. I play with tiles so I don't know
> their letter. I had genocided L, h (mind flayers and liches) and had
> another blessed scroll..

Simply put, you don't. Or if you prefer, you can't. The symbol for
shades is " " (space), by the way.

> 2> What is the incopacitating power of Shades?

Paralysis, which is different from sleep. If you have good MC, this
should very rarely affect you.

> 3> How do I get the intrinsic I need to be immune to them?

To be immune, you need a ring of free action.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Thanks guys. I've never really had a problem with them before. I just
couldn't do anything this time. Every couple of moves and I was dead.
I really thought I must be missing an intrinsic since I usually kill them
without a problem. Oh well next time I'll look for a ring of
free action. I had ID a bunch of stuff, that wasn't one I had found though.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In news:<Dvdve.12788$eM6.10521@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, K.V.C
<kvc627@earthlink.net> says...
> Thanks guys. I've never really had a problem with them before. I just
> couldn't do anything this time. Every couple of moves and I was dead.
> I really thought I must be missing an intrinsic since I usually kill them
> without a problem. Oh well next time I'll look for a ring of
> free action. I had ID a bunch of stuff, that wasn't one I had found though.


Spoilerish stuff coming up.


I'd say you'll benefit more from trying to keep magic cancellation lvl 3
up. Like Benjamin and David recommended. Do you usually go this deep
without MC3? I will almost always try to wear an MC3 cloak (elven, MR,
prot, robe and oilskin) if I'm not wearing mithril. There is a great
difference between an attack succeeding >1/3 of the times (with MC2 as
you have) or 1/50 of the times. I think that if you had MC3 you would
not have to bother about the =oFA for the Shades, you would usually not
even notice any special power of theirs, even if surrounded. But also
MC3 is so much more safe than MC2 for so many other things too.
Furthermore MC protects your equipment too, from those nasty
fire/col/electricity melee attacks.

This is sounding too much like an ad already, but - get MC3 now!

Perhaps the reason you never had this problem before is since you
usually have MC3?

/Kristoffer

--
This cookie has a scrap of paper inside. It reads:
Irtrgnevnaf rawbl yvpura naq frnjrrq.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

<snip>
> I'd say you'll benefit more from trying to keep magic cancellation lvl 3
> up. Like Benjamin and David recommended. Do you usually go this deep
> without MC3? I will almost always try to wear an MC3 cloak (elven, MR,
> prot, robe and oilskin) if I'm not wearing mithril. There is a great
> difference between an attack succeeding >1/3 of the times (with MC2 as
> you have) or 1/50 of the times. I think that if you had MC3 you would
> not have to bother about the =oFA for the Shades, you would usually not
> even notice any special power of theirs, even if surrounded. But also
> MC3 is so much more safe than MC2 for so many other things too.
> Furthermore MC protects your equipment too, from those nasty
> fire/col/electricity melee attacks.
>
> This is sounding too much like an ad already, but - get MC3 now!
>
> Perhaps the reason you never had this problem before is since you
> usually have MC3?
>
> /Kristoffer
>
> --
> This cookie has a scrap of paper inside. It reads:
> Irtrgnevnaf rawbl yvpura naq frnjrrq.

Usually I dont have a cloak of displacement, I usually have a cloak of
protection or magic resist
Otherwise my equipment for a valk was what I usually have.. You know I never
knew
about MC before this. I'm reading the spoiler at
http://www.helsinki.fi/~vviitane/spoilers/protect
and damn I had and oilskin in my bag!! This game is so deep. You learn
something new all the time..

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005, K.V.C wrote:

> Couple of questions.
> 1> How do you genocide Shades. I play with tiles so I don't know
> their letter. I had genocided L, h (mind flayers and liches) and had
> another blessed scroll..

To answer the unasked questions, the farlook command (';') should tell you
what is the symbol use, even with tiles, so that you can genocide it. Off
course, for shades it won't tell you such a thing as other have already
pointed.

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

K.V.C wrote:
>
> Usually I dont have a cloak of displacement, I usually have a cloak of
> protection or magic resist Otherwise my equipment for a valk was what I
> usually have.. You know I never knew about MC before this.

No wonder MC is not directly observable■, as opposed to, e.g., MR;
it's pure external spoiler information, IMO. Therefore, even that I know
about it, I never considered it as an option for a gameplay decision for
me. Others MMV.

> I'm reading the
> spoiler at http://www.helsinki.fi/~vviitane/spoilers/protect and damn I had
> and oilskin in my bag!! This game is so deep. You learn something new all
> the time..

Indeed.

Janis

■ without making statistics to a larger extent

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca>:
[shades]
>I often prefer a cloak of displacement; in almost all other cases the MC3
>isn't so important. However, after reading this thread, I'll probably swap
>over to an MC3 cloak for this particular level if I don't happen to have
>free action.

I have not had trouble with displacement - to maximise the benefit of
displacement I prefer to maneuver and only fight one shade at once; this
is easy because they are rather slow.

However, even as a big fan of displacement I am generally carrying an MC3
cloak for special circumstances.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is First Tuesday, Presuary.