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Intel or AMD?

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Anonymous
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June 15, 2001 8:20:08 AM

Ok, I'm sure this conversation is old to some of you, but I'm kinda new here and am now reconsidering whether to go Intel or AMD. I'm looking for good some advice...

I'm want to build a computer now, don't want to wait until the Northwood or even the new P3 comes out, I'll upgrade then if they are that great. I got some cash to burn and want to build a machine now that will be kick-ass.

That said, please give me your ultimate AMD machine (I am not going to overclock it, don't want to get into that). I want to know what motherboard and which CPU to purchase right now.

Thanks all,
Calibis







"Like sausage and law, one should never watch software being made."

More about : intel amd

June 15, 2001 8:40:49 AM

Best performing AMD combo appears to be SiS735 board with 1.4G Athlon. No proven stability yet though.

This will today run about par with P4@1.7 - the balance will probably shift as more apps are released with SSE2 support in favour of P4.

It's really up to you, and if you want to build now - the Athlon system will be cheaper. The SiS board nicely avoids potential conflict with VIA.


I heard what you said, but for me if I were building a new system I would wait a coulpe of months and see what out of Northwood/Athlon4 prevails. It isn't so far away and prices will continue to drop. Buying now will lock a significant $$ into 1 technology direction.

-* This Space For Rent *-
email for application details
Anonymous
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June 15, 2001 10:44:33 AM

I would not buy P4. Rambus makes a P4 buy even worse.
Related resources
June 15, 2001 3:55:53 PM

the current P4 @1.7GHz performs quite well in a broad rage of applications.

It also is doing excellent in newer games like dronez.

stay away from older(and current) AMD cpu's missing thermo protection, if you decide to go the that way.

"AMD/VIA...you <i>still</i> are the weakest link, good bye!"
Anonymous
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June 15, 2001 4:14:46 PM

You're right, I probably should wait. It's just so hard to do! Maybe I'll just order all the other parts and wait for the mb/cpu for later.

"Like sausage and law, one should never watch software being made."
Anonymous
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June 15, 2001 4:19:09 PM

P4 is the fastest thing ever out. At 1.7ghz ready to hit 2ghz !!! Fast SSE2 make programs fly !!! Also they dont melt like my good buddy amdmeltdown said !!!

! Member of the Intel Triple Threat w/ Fugger and AMDmeltdown !
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 15, 2001 4:56:22 PM

I feel sorry for you
June 15, 2001 5:00:18 PM

Member of the what???

Mwahahahahahaha!

<b>
"Now drop your weapons or I'll kill him with this deadly jelly baby." :wink:
</b>
June 15, 2001 5:44:12 PM

Really, give it up. We don't mind if you buy Intel, we don't mind if you post factual information and back it up, but joining AmdMeltdown and FUGGER on their FUD crusade will just get you labeled as an idiot.

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
June 15, 2001 5:50:04 PM

Actually I'm shocked that Amdmeltdown is putting up with Bowswer associating himself with him.

Fugger is probably bowser so who cares...

<font color=red>Amd or Intel? Who cares?? Not me...</font color=red>
June 15, 2001 6:50:41 PM

what's a "FUD crusade"???
June 15, 2001 7:38:37 PM

For your enlightenment, "FUD" is an acronym for "Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt." It's a marketing tactic--basically, it's spreading or starting unconfirmed nasty rumors about one product in order to make a competing product look more appealing.

The term "FUD" became widely known when Microsoft's Halloween Memos were leaked, and the term was found repeatedly in those memos.

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
June 16, 2001 8:06:01 PM

Well, i dont think he'll gain anything going either way. He'll get roughly the same performance out of the p4 and the t-bird. The only difference he'll see is in price. I mean think about it. An athlon 1.4ghz will cost him $177 and the p4 1.7ghz will cost him $328.

http://www4.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q2/010608/athlon1400...

I personally dont think the p4 performs enough better to be worth the extra 151 bucks on a cpu. If i was you i'd wait for the Northwood and the athlon 4. By the way if you ppl werent stupid enough to forget to put on proper cooling then its your own fault. If amd or intel cpu's are cooled properly they both run great. And amd cpu's arent junk.

Im savin up for a Cobra!! Hehe!!
Anonymous
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June 18, 2001 2:51:15 AM

Like someone said to me not so long ago you won't get a good advice here. But if you want opinions, you're in the right place! For my opinion, like my sign say "I wait for the nForce chipset" I don't like the prices of the P4 for what they give (they often get beaten by the Athlon in benchmarks) and I don't really trust the VIA chipset. But, if you feel a bit lucky, go ahead! More likely, you can go with the AMD760 chipset (less problems known). But if you can wait until the beginning of the next year or so, the nForce chipset should have get out and issues known (if there is problems with it).

<i>Waiting for the nForce chipset...</i> -Me
June 18, 2001 3:22:27 AM

If you have to buy it today, buy Athlon 1.4 GHz. Ignore all the SSE2 "optimized" spin. You want your software to run fastest today, not some empty promises down the road. Even if some software companies ultimately provide SSE2 optimized versions, you will not get them for free anyway; it will be more money out of your pocket.

If you can wait, you may want to wait a few months. Then, you can pick either A-4 or the 0.13 micron P4 (Northwood), both with higher clock speed than you can get today. And, as long as Intel and AMD keep fighting, the prices will be pretty good.

**Spin all you want, but we the paying consumers will have the final word**
June 18, 2001 3:27:44 AM

Forgot to add: you will also get i845 + DDR for P4/Northwood if you are willing to wait a while, and the current P4 gives you no upgrade path since the sockets will be different between the current P4 and Northwood.

**Spin all you want, but we the paying consumers will have the final word**
June 18, 2001 8:08:55 AM

Hey can you shut-up some time.For the 1 time the guy will have true information.
June 18, 2001 8:13:45 AM

If you want my advice on nforce.I like there 1 graphic card look pretty well in theory.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by juin on 06/18/01 04:14 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Anonymous
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June 19, 2001 3:08:13 AM

All, I've decided to take the vast majority of advice here and wait a few months and see what the Tulautin(sp?) and P4 Northwoods have to offer.

Until then, would some of you fine minds help me up my current system the best I can?

It's a Gateway:
P2-400mhz
128MB RAM(don't know what type)
Diamond Viper v770 Ultra w/ 32MB
10GB IDE Harddrive

Can the CPU be upgraded without upgrading my mobo? If so, which CPU should I get? I've kept the original mobo/cpu that came when I bought the system from Gateway.

Thanks again!
Calibis


"Like sausage and law, one should never watch software being made."
June 19, 2001 3:38:11 AM

Well, personally, I will not wait, if you wait, you can NEVER have the best system since new technology are announced every day. Just about 3 weeks ago, I was in the same boat with you, I was trying to decide to either build a system now or wait for the new technology. I was debating if I should get a GeForce3 now, or get a Radeon 2 with it's mystifying "TruForm" technology. I decided to build a machine this summer and "enjoy" it with games, rather than having the same debate 3 months later. This is the machine I built:

Asus A7M266 Motherboard, AMD 761 Chipset, with DDR support.
AMD Thunderbird 1.333 Ghz 266 FSB
For cooling I use the Volcano II, it's cheap and awesome for non-overclockers
256MB DDR Ram from Crucial
Asus V8200 GeForce3 Card
And all the other goodies..

With Windows 2000, this computer has not yet crash on me, it's very stable and performs VERY well. I hit over 5800 in 3D Marks 2001, and that's without any overclocking and tweaking. You can hit 7000 easy if you overclock.

About Intel vs. AMD, please don't give me [-peep-] like which is better, each has it's advantage as well as disadvantage. Intel is fast, but more for the future, AMD is more for today's softwares. I must say I do think Intel is more stable, from past experience. But AMD is much faster, and a lot cheaper as well. AMD does tend to have heating problem, but if you get the right HSF, you won't have any problem. From price/speed point of view, AMD wins easily, and not mentioning how overclockable AMD is. That's another reason I decided to go with AMD, if my computer gets slow in about 2-3 years, I can just switch the heatsink/fan, and pump another 300MHz out of this baby =)

Well, glad everything work out for ya, let us know
June 19, 2001 3:40:08 AM

I have a 440bx in my p2-400 dell and I can get a 1 ghz in it. Kind of an expensive upgrade though considering I could buy a new motherboard, memory, and get a 1 ghz T-bird for the same price.

Save your money.

<font color=red>We are going to have peace even if we have to fight for it. - Eisenhower</font color=red>
June 19, 2001 4:36:54 AM

Sounds familiar. I have a 440-bx Dell P2-350. I couldn't justify spending $450 Canadian on the Slot 1 1Ghz, so I got a 700 Celeron retail, an Iwill slocket II, forced the fsb to 100 and have been running at 1.05Ghz for a week now.
This only cost C$140.
I put my savings in my "new computer" fund.
June 19, 2001 11:07:52 AM

Actually with the release of AthlonMP and the nForce chipset comboed with ddr 2100 ram would be the best combo to go with. Though the AthlonMP is only at 1.2 it handles itself very well. You can also go with the t-bird 1.4.

the memory controller for the nForce is the best on the market. Nothing that Intel has or will be releasing can touch it. It gives the Athlon a 20% boost and with the t-bird 1.4 gig, it is easily a match for the P4 1.7, and for a much lower price.

The Price for the P4 is still far to high and with the very short lifetime for the current platform, its a waste of money. the nforce chipset is not. It will work with both the t-bird and the new AthlonMP chips.

Also with the best intergrated sound and video, with the sound with more features than any soundcard on the market today its by far the best looking solution.

MeldarthX
June 19, 2001 11:12:51 AM

From what I can remember you can most likely drop the PIII 450-PIII 600 in there........but your biggest boost you will get is upgrading your video and ram. a geforceMX400 or geforce 2 will greatly increase your systems performance. Also getting another 128 of ram wouldn't hurt either.

MeldarthX
Anonymous
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June 19, 2001 12:24:48 PM

Is the Geforce really THAT much better than my v770 ultra? I remember buying the Ultra not too long ago when it first came out and it was supposed to be king. It can't be that much worst than the Geforce can it?

How can I tell what kind of memory I have in my mobo? Does it say somewhere on the sims? (PC100, etc..) What are the different types of memory and what most likely do I have in an original Gateway P2-400?

"Like sausage and law, one should never watch software being made."
June 19, 2001 2:00:19 PM

TnT2 Ultra should be about as fast as Geforce2MX 200 (the one with 64bit memory interface). It's quite a bit slower than regular MX (with 128bit SDRAM 166/175Mhz core/mem). Gefore256/2/3 with DDR memory are all WAY (times) faster than TnT2 Ultra on higher resolutions.

You probably have PC-100 SDRAM DIMM's, BX chipset doesn't support SIMM's and there ain't such thing as PC-100 SIMM...
June 19, 2001 2:19:01 PM

i would seriously advise against asking a question... intel vs amd here... 1.4 athlon... sis 735 chipset and 512 megs of pc2100 ddr sdram...... asus geforce 3... sound blaster live platinum 5.1... that should be fairly nice...

you do not strengthen the weak by weakening the strong
June 19, 2001 6:14:54 PM

For now I'd go with a Athlon 1.4 setup if you plan on getting it within the month. You can get a CPU and memory for less than the price of a P4 CPU, and the Rambus memory is even more to boot. The P4 would have to be incredibly faster than the AMD for that kind of price difference to be worthwhile.

The other argument is waiting for the Northwood/Athlon 4 releases. Hell, you could still be sitting there with a 286-12 "because you're waiting for that next newest system to come out". Remember, once a new design/system is released it will be pricey. Better have those $ saved up if you want to get the primo stuff hot off the press!
June 19, 2001 10:50:47 PM

actually it is. With the gpu unit releaving the cpu of some of the lighting and transforming cal, it helps slower cpus able to carry the load of heavier graphiced games of today.

That is why I suggested the geforceMX400 and up......200 is a little faster than the tnt2 u.

Also it would help to know what your mb was? If it is the BX then the person was right in pointing out that it was dimms not simms.......

MeldarthX
Anonymous
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June 19, 2001 11:30:34 PM

Gateway told me today that I have:
"128MB 100Mhz 64Bit 4-clock CL=2 SDRAM UNBUFFERED DIMM memory installed in GA GP6-400 computer."

Any suggestions for upgrading? Should I purchase 2 more identical 128 sticks or is there another option? Maybe 2 256 133mhz DIMMS?

"Like sausage and law, one should never watch software being made."
June 20, 2001 1:32:13 AM

Buy 1-256Mb stick of pc-133and mix with your pc100 stick. If you are running W98 it won't use over 512Mb. PC-133 for future upgrade possibilities even though it will only run at pc-100.
June 20, 2001 1:32:41 AM

Buy 1-256Mb stick of pc-133and mix with your pc100 stick. If you are running W98 it won't use over 512Mb. PC-133 for future upgrade possibilities even though it will only run at pc-100.
Crucial is a good place to buy.
Anonymous
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June 20, 2001 1:53:01 AM

Thanks, actually I found another 128MB PC100 stick in an old computer I was trying to upgrade, I popped that in there and so now have 256MB with 1 slot left.

So, I can have those two 128MB PC100 DIMMS and I could buy one 256MB PC133 DIMM to bring it up to an even 512MB? No compatibility problems with that? I thought I heard that all your memory should be the same, does that apply to the speed too? (PC100 & PC133 mix) Should I stick to the PC100 for the 256MB DIMM? (I'll be building a new computer when the new CPU's come out, not looking to reuse any of this memory since I'll be switching to the new stuff)

Thanks.

"Like sausage and law, one should never watch software being made."<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Calibis on 06/19/01 09:54 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 20, 2001 2:22:59 AM

Well, for starters, a 256MB stick will probably have to be registered, and it's usually impossible to mix registered and unregistered DIMMs.

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 20, 2001 2:44:14 AM

Crapola, so I should stick to three 128MB PC100 DIMMS then?

I'm sure 384MB is enough for this computer anyhow; I just want to use it for gaming through summer/fall then it will become my NT/Linux server after I build my new computer.

"Like sausage and law, one should never watch software being made."
June 20, 2001 2:51:09 AM

Ja, probably so.

On the bright side, you might not even need more than 256MB. If you're running Win98/ME, chances are 256MB is enough. If you're running Win2K, you can check your memory usage using the Performance tab of the Task Manager (Ctrl+Alt+Del, Task Manager, Performance).

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
June 20, 2001 2:56:06 AM

I have/had been running 128Mb pc100 and 256Mb pc133 with no probs. I know many who have mixed and have had no issues.
June 20, 2001 3:01:02 AM

Registered <i>and</i> unregistered memory?

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 20, 2001 3:03:21 AM

Cool, I'll stick to just getting 1 more 128 DIMM, shoot they're only $22. The game I'm interested in playing, WWII Online, is a RAM hog and 384 will put me where players have said they've seen the best improvement.

Thank you ALL for the advice. I'll let this thread die now. I'll be sticking around the forums though, this is a great website.

-Calibis

"Like sausage and law, one should never watch software being made."
June 20, 2001 3:35:45 AM

No. you said that a 256Mb chip would probably be registerd so he might not be able to mix. I meant that you could mix 128 pc100 and 256 pc133. I'm not sure what you meant when you said he might have problems because the 256 pc133 he mentioned buying would probably be registered. Why would it be registered??? confused .. more than normal.. :) 
June 20, 2001 5:35:08 PM

Well...BX boards typically require that anything above 128MB be registered--I think it's just an obscure (and minor) limitation of the chipset. 128MB unregistered DIMMs are typically fine though. You could try putting 256MB unregistered DIMMs on a BX board, but I wouldn't guarantee your system stability. I've seen many BX boards blue-screen or kernel-panic constantly if you don't stick to this requirement.

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
June 23, 2001 1:05:50 PM

:)  as someone else pointed out, though wrongly about win98 it can see over 512 megs of ram, actually it can see up to 4 gigs, but it can only allocate 196 megs of ram at a time. Dropping in a stick of 256 pc133 would not hurt your system at all.....

Updating your video will give you a big boost and you can also always drop your new video into your new system.....;)

MeldarthX
June 27, 2001 11:50:53 PM

I wouldn't worry about the ultra too much unless you bump up the CPU quite a bit.

Your big difference will be seen in memory first, CPU second, and vid card third.

I just picked up a 256 meg stick of Corsair (lifetime) PC100 from Fry's for $60. My machine is now 320megs instead of 128 megs (found one of my 64m sticks was dead and didn't figger it out until I did the slot shuffle. Funny... My dead Seagate hard drive works now. It was throwing bad sectors before the memory swap, and now it's fine! Sheesh.) and I see a huge difference in my old celery 266/400 system with a no-name BX motherboard. And I'm running the same v770 Ultra board you have.

If you don't want to build a whole new system yet, upgrade your memory and see. If that's not enough, try for a 600mhz PIII. Then try the vid card.

Of course by the time you spend that much money, you may as well have bought your new machine. But at least you'll have a nice second machine. heehee
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 28, 2001 5:39:05 PM

If you do break down and buy a new system for a fantastic price/performance ratio get this system. I've built 3 and have 2 more in the works for friends and family. They are quite fast, 4000 3dMarks in 2001 at default.
Let me know what you guys think...

AMD 1.2 w/ 266 bus ~$100
EPOX EP-8K7A DDR Motherboard ~$130
256 MB PC2100 DDR (Crucial or Micron worked for me) <$60
SB Live Value <$50
MSI StarForce 820 Geforce 2 Pro for <$120 (NewEgg.com)
WD400BB Superfast ATA Hardrive <$130
Enlight 7237 Case <$60
Total for Core system:
$650
Add mouse, keyboard, monitor, and NIC/Modem of choice.

They are real fast gaming systems and sub $1000 dollars.
You can get most of these parts at these prices at Newegg.com.

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
-Einstein
Anonymous
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June 28, 2001 6:23:53 PM

SO????? Will A7V support Athlon4? And what is the last Athlon B(200fsb) gonna be? 1.6Ghz? 2.0Ghz??? or 1.4Ghz is already the last AthlonB?
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 28, 2001 10:25:21 PM

Yes, A7V will support the Athlon 4 aka Palomino.

The last Atlon B was the 1.3Ghz. Most of those 200Mhz boards only supported a 12.5x Multiplier. I doubt if they'll come out with a faster Athlon B.

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
-Einstein
Anonymous
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June 28, 2001 10:33:37 PM

Little wrong here..1.4Ghz 200fsb is the latest Athlon B yet. If 266fsc tbird works on 200fsb mobo that means i can get even 2Ghz tbird 266fsb on my A7V (if they will have 2Ghz one)?? The latest update fro A7V is 1008 BETA, but you can't find anywhere at all, it is kind of not out yet, i got SPEIALLY from asus tech. support, the only thing I'm afraid is that it is BETA...
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 29, 2001 12:36:06 PM

Thanks MeldarthX, I bought that 3rd 128 PC100 DIMM for my p2-400, now have 384mb RAM and I also took your advice and bought/installed a Gainward Geforce2 MX-400 w/ 64mb VRAM. WOW, big difference. I can now play Anarchy-Online and WW2Online smooth as butter on my p2-400. Very nice....u da man. Will make a nice nt/linux server after I build the new one later this year.

<font color=blue>"Yeah, microchips, but what... is it good for?"</font color=blue>
!