GEEZ! NetHack is my torment in purgatory...

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Whoever built this game was cruel.
Anyway, I can't do it. I can't even get my character up to level 7 without
dying of either starvation (no food, no edible monsters, most of the time
they don't leave corpses and most aren't edible <healthy> anyway) or some
freak attack by a were-beast who summons enough "brethren" to fill up the
room, or some anal probe attack from an army of fire ants. How the <BLEEP!>
do people play this game? Are you CRAZY!? Are you a masochist? Do you enjoy
suffering? Do tell :-)). But seriously I guess I'll keep trying. I would
appreciate some advice beyond what I've read in FAQs, however, because that
doesn't cover what's happening to me. I just have no luck... no rations to
be found, most of the time when I do get a corpse it's "Blech! Rotten food!"
and I go blind or confused and meet my demise much earlier than I would have
if I had starved instead. And how is it when I play a non-Wizard character,
I find spellbooks all over the damn place, but when I play a Wizard, I
barely find scrolls and wands, let alone spellbooks...wtf.
9 answers Last reply
More about geez nethack torment purgatory
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Mon, 27 Jun 2005, Simmie Simmerson wrote:

    > Whoever built this game was cruel.
    > Anyway, I can't do it.

    Some tips that may help:

    - Wizards are pretty challenging for new players because not only do they
    start with no food, they burn extra food when spellcasting. They're useful
    for learning what all the items do, but IMO the melee classes are better
    for surviving longer for newer players. Especially classes that gain speed
    (i.e. valkyries).

    - Learn to use #pray appropriately. I tend to make a mental note of the
    last time I prayed (some people will #name an item appropriately) so that
    you have an idea of when it's ok to pray again. My rule of thumb is don't
    pray before turn 500, and don't pray more than once in any 800 turn block.
    Err on the side of only praying if death is immenent. Remember that
    praying for HP only works if you're less than 1/7 of your max, or have 5
    hp or less remaining. So if you've got two rothes on you and you're at
    6/35 hp, take a step back and hope to not get hit too hard, then you can
    pray.

    - Learn to run. By now you've probably got a good idea of monsters that
    kick your butt. When you see those monsters, turn tail and run for the
    nearest staircase. Switch to another branch and return to the situation
    when better prepared. This has the perk of reducing the frequency of
    needing #pray to bail yourself out :-)

    - Elbereth takes some getting used to, but when used properly it can be a
    big help: http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/elbereth_faq.html


    - Matt
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Simmie Simmerson wrote:
    >
    > Whoever built this game was cruel.

    The same can be said of chess, and it's why people play
    chess for decades. If NetHack weren't cruel I would
    have lost interest in it long ago.

    > Anyway, I can't do it.

    What does "do it" mean? If you enjoy playing a game,
    then the goal is to, here it comes, enjoy playing
    the game. The goal isn't to win. Winning just ends
    a fun game same as dying ends a fun game. Winning
    is irrelevant to the enjoyment of playing until
    winning gets easy enough to lose interest.

    > I can't even get my character up to level 7 without
    > dying of either starvation (no food, no edible monsters, most of the time
    > they don't leave corpses and most aren't edible <healthy> anyway)

    Knowing what you can and can't eat when is part of
    the process. First learn what is harmfull. Then
    learn how to acquire poison resistance. Then learn
    how to acquire immunity to the other problems. One
    step at a time.

    > or some freak attack by a were-beast who summons
    > enough "brethren" to fill up the room, or some anal
    > probe attack from an army of fire ants.

    Corridors, stairs up, and other run-away options are
    in the game for a reason. So are missiles.

    > How the <BLEEP!> do people play this game?

    I do it badly in comparison to regular ascenders. ;^)

    > Are you CRAZY!? Are you a masochist? Do you enjoy
    > suffering? Do tell :-)).

    Yes. Easy games are boring.

    > I would appreciate some advice beyond what I've read
    > in FAQs, however, because that doesn't cover what's
    > happening to me.

    Yes it does. Your idea that it doesn't apply to you
    is preventing you from learning a lesson from every
    game played. Understand that the choices you have
    made are absolutely the reason each character has
    died.

    > I just have no luck...

    That sort of lucky is manufactured through smart
    play. Smart play is manufactured through learning
    lessons when previous characters died. Learning
    lessons is manufactured through learning that every
    choice you have made is why you died.

    > no rations to be found, most of the time when I do
    > get a corpse it's "Blech! Rotten food!"

    That message merely means you got less than the
    standard amount of nutrition from a food item. it
    is not a problem. You ate the rest, correct?

    > and I go blind or confused

    Not with "Blech! Rotten food!" you didn't. Those
    get other messages. Messages actually mean something
    and different messages mean different things even
    if you don't yet understand the difference.

    > And how is it when I play a non-Wizard character,
    > I find spellbooks all over the damn place, but when I play a Wizard, I
    > barely find scrolls and wands, let alone spellbooks...wtf.

    Chuckle. THAT is real world luck. Actually it's a
    matter of perspective. You remember the bad things more
    the the good things because avoiding the bad is more
    important than pursuing the good, given a sufficiently
    narrow viewpoint. Memories really do work that way.
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Doug Freyburger wrote:

    > Simmie Simmerson wrote:
    >> no rations to be found, most of the time when I do get a corpse it's
    >> "Blech! Rotten food!"
    >
    > That message merely means you got less than the standard amount of
    > nutrition from a food item. it is not a problem. You ate the rest,
    > correct?
    >
    >> and I go blind or confused
    >
    > Not with "Blech! Rotten food!" you didn't. Those get other messages.
    > Messages actually mean something and different messages mean different
    > things even if you don't yet understand the difference.

    You must be thinking of the "...tastes terrible" message.

    /* called on the "first bite" of rotten food */
    STATIC_OVL int
    rottenfood(obj)
    struct obj *obj;
    {
    pline("Blecch! Rotten %s!", foodword(obj));
    if(!rn2(4)) {
    if (Hallucination) You_feel("rather trippy.");
    else You_feel("rather %s.", body_part(LIGHT_HEADED));
    make_confused(HConfusion + d(2,4),FALSE);
    } else if(!rn2(4) && !Blind) {
    pline("Everything suddenly goes dark.");
    make_blinded((long)d(2,10),FALSE);
    if (!Blind) Your(vision_clears);
    } else if(!rn2(3)) {
    ....

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips
    over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
    --Matt Groening
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Benjamin Lewis wrote:

    > Doug Freyburger wrote:
    >
    >> Simmie Simmerson wrote:
    >>> no rations to be found, most of the time when I do get a corpse it's
    >>> "Blech! Rotten food!"
    >>
    >> That message merely means you got less than the standard amount of
    >> nutrition from a food item. it is not a problem. You ate the rest,
    >> correct?
    >>
    >>> and I go blind or confused
    >>
    >> Not with "Blech! Rotten food!" you didn't. Those get other messages.
    >> Messages actually mean something and different messages mean different
    >> things even if you don't yet understand the difference.
    >
    > You must be thinking of the "...tastes terrible" message.

    I'd also like to point out that *any* corpse you eat besides lizards and
    lichens has at least a 1/7 chance of being "rotten", and could blind or
    confuse you. If it's fresh, however, it won't make you sick.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips
    over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
    --Matt Groening
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Benjamin Lewis wrote:
    > > Doug Freyburger wrote:
    >
    > > > Not with "Blech! Rotten food!" you didn't ...
    >
    > > You must be thinking of the "...tastes terrible" message.

    I did mean rotten, but the relevent part of the code
    is when the rotten routine gets called not what's in
    the routine.

    > I'd also like to point out that *any* corpse you eat besides lizards and
    > lichens has at least a 1/7 chance of being "rotten", and could blind or
    > confuse you. If it's fresh, however, it won't make you sick.

    Encountering rotten food does not teach you whether
    that food is normally a problem. Any of the ill effects
    of rotten food last a short enough time that a few dots
    of waiting and they will be over. Eating out of sight
    of other monsters will be enough that monsters will
    rarely be able to get to you by the time you're okay
    again. Eating in a crowd is an invitation for the
    disaster of that random change.

    On when the rotten routine gets called - BUC status
    is important. Blessed food is rotten much less often,
    uncursed in the middle and cursed much more often.
    Corpses are always uncursed but that 1/7 chance doesn't
    teach anything.
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Doug Freyburger wrote:

    > Benjamin Lewis wrote:
    >>> Doug Freyburger wrote:
    >>
    >>>> Not with "Blech! Rotten food!" you didn't ...
    >>
    >>> You must be thinking of the "...tastes terrible" message.
    >
    > I did mean rotten, but the relevent part of the code
    > is when the rotten routine gets called not what's in
    > the routine.

    The "Blecch! Rotten food!" message only gets printed if the routine is
    called. It is this message that is associated with confusion/blindness, as
    the original poster stated.

    >> I'd also like to point out that *any* corpse you eat besides lizards and
    >> lichens has at least a 1/7 chance of being "rotten", and could blind or
    >> confuse you. If it's fresh, however, it won't make you sick.
    >
    > Encountering rotten food does not teach you whether that food is normally
    > a problem. Any of the ill effects of rotten food last a short enough
    > time that a few dots of waiting and they will be over. Eating out of
    > sight of other monsters will be enough that monsters will rarely be able
    > to get to you by the time you're okay again. Eating in a crowd is an
    > invitation for the disaster of that random change.
    >
    > On when the rotten routine gets called - BUC status is important.
    > Blessed food is rotten much less often, uncursed in the middle and cursed
    > much more often. Corpses are always uncursed but that 1/7 chance doesn't
    > teach anything.

    Yes, I agree with all of this; I don't think it's counter to anything I
    said.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips
    over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
    --Matt Groening
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    In article <5wVve.13850$eM6.6603@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
    Simmie Simmerson <radiohead3@earthlink.net> wrote:


    >Whoever built this game was cruel.

    Yep. That's pretty much the whole point. Welcome home!
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Simmie Simmerson wrote:

    > Whoever built this game was cruel.

    Thumbs up. Genius, yet still very cruel.

    > Anyway, I can't do it.

    I thought I couldn't, either. I had almost beaten the game for the first
    time in
    one year yesterday, and then I died for my own incompetence.
    And then today, I started a new game!:-) Never give up, never...
    > I can't even get my character up to level 7 without
    > dying of either starvation (no food, no edible monsters, most of the time
    > they don't leave corpses and most aren't edible <healthy> anyway)

    Most corpses are like cauliflowers: they taste horrible but are edible
    anyway. Sometimes you may get confused or blind, but it's really just a
    matter of a few turns, so don't get too upset when it happens. Wait a
    couple of turns if you're scared of running into your pet and hitting it.
    Ah, come to think about it, usually a cat or a dog eat only strictly edible
    corpses, so keep a close watch.

    > or some
    > freak attack by a were-beast who summons enough "brethren" to fill up the
    > room, or some anal probe attack from an army of fire ants.

    Run, run away!

    >Are you CRAZY!? Are you a masochist? Do
    > you enjoy suffering? Do tell :-)).

    In my case, definitely.

    > I would appreciate some advice beyond what I've read in FAQs, however,
    > because that doesn't cover what's happening to me. I just have no luck...

    May I suggest you to look on the internet for some good spoilers? I've
    realized I'm a much better player since I started "studying", even though I
    expect many people here to tell you it would ruin all the fun.
    Consult old threads of the newsgroup via Google whenever you encounter a
    perilous situation or simply don't know what to do (usually it's nothing
    other people haven't experimented and asked about in so many years).
    You know, the game works in turns, nothing happens until *you* move. So you
    can just ditch the whole thing for a quick research and come back when you
    feel like.
    And my email's at the bottom of the post, so you can insult my naivete
    anytime.

    > And how is it when I
    > play a non-Wizard character, I find spellbooks all over the damn place,
    > but when I play a Wizard, I barely find scrolls and wands, let alone
    > spellbooks...wtf.

    Ha!! It's true!! Double thumbs-up!
    I never play spellcasters and I experience this all the time. Usually I
    carry the books to the closest shopkeeper and sell them. I like money
    better.
    May I suggest you (again :-/) to try and prove yourself with an easier,
    sturdy character, a Valkyrie or a Barbarian, for starters?
    Wizards look appealing and do lots of great stuff, but they need careful
    nurturing as the cool stuff comes only when they level up a lot, or at
    least that's what I experienced. Try the combat-wombat experience while
    you're still a rookie, so you get used to the game dynamics a little bit
    more.
    Once again: it's a turn game. It's not like a demon will pop out of nowhere
    and do you if you move slow. Don't run around everywhere.
    You don't know how many times I *still* get killed for running into a
    floating eye.


    --
    Lara aka Burymagnets

    "I'm pushing an elephant up the stairs,
    I'm tossing up punchlines that were never there
    over my shoulder a piano falls, crashing to the ground"
    The Great Beyond - R.E.M.

    My *real* email is burymagnets_at_email_dot_it
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    "Simmie Simmerson" <radiohead3@earthlink.net> writes:

    > Whoever built this game was cruel.
    > Anyway, I can't do it. I can't even get my character up to level 7 without
    > dying of either starvation (no food, no edible monsters, most of the time
    > they don't leave corpses and most aren't edible <healthy> anyway)

    Pray. Food timeout is similar to prayer timeout most of the time.

    > or some
    > freak attack by a were-beast who summons enough "brethren" to fill up the
    > room,

    Don't fight any moving monster in a room. Retreat to a passage where
    you fight one-on-one. Always make a free exit a priority. Use
    the E-word when you need a break. Throw everything you have at
    teh monster, the stuff won't help you anymore when you're dead.

    > or some anal probe attack from an army of fire ants. How the <BLEEP!>
    > do people play this game?

    *shrug* A little masochism is included. After a while, you'll
    find condolence in the assumption that at least in /this/
    /particular/ game of today, you didn't die because you made a
    stupid mistake, but because the RNG was cruel.

    Then you look at Marvin's ascension ratios at tournaments and cry.

    Best,
    Jakob
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