What is so deadly about dlvl6?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I'm looking at nethack.alt.org's stats and I've noticed something very
interesting. The most deadly level in the dungeon by far is dlvl6.
>From dlvl1 to dlvl5 the number of deaths steadily drop but then all of
a sudden at dlvl6 they jump up to NINE TIMES the fatality rate of dlvl5
and then starts falling off again. What is the cause? I can think of
two things: dlvl6 is the first level that Minetown can occur on, and
also, don't poison spike pit traps start at dlvl6?

The info is here:
http://alt.org/nethack/statnethack/statnethack-d.txt

 

[Alexis]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

cyde@umd.edu wrote:
> I'm looking at nethack.alt.org's stats and I've noticed something very
> interesting. The most deadly level in the dungeon by far is dlvl6.

From Hearse stats, the most deadly level is Minetown. Here's the Hearse
Top Ten

Level Number of bones
=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-==-
bonM0.T 1549
bonM0.2 979
bonD0.4 928
bonD0.5 925
bonD0.O 860
bonM0.1 727
bonD0.6 540
bonM0.3 402
bonD0.7 401
bonM0.5 349

-- A.

--
My email address is hearse[AT]hotpop[DOT]com

Hearse Windows/Unix client: http://hearse.krollmark.com
Hearse announcements: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hearseannounce

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Alexis <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:42c5b507$0$108$65c69314
@mercury.nildram.net:

> cyde@umd.edu wrote:
>> I'm looking at nethack.alt.org's stats and I've noticed something very
>> interesting. The most deadly level in the dungeon by far is dlvl6.
>
> From Hearse stats, the most deadly level is Minetown.

Dlvl6 is the first possible level for Minetown and both have a very large
number of deaths attributible to them ... it can't be just a coincidence,
eh?


--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris

 

[Alexis]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

cyde@umd.edu wrote:
> Alexis <me@privacy.net> wrote
> > cyde@umd.edu wrote:
> >> I'm looking at nethack.alt.org's stats and I've noticed something very
> >> interesting. The most deadly level in the dungeon by far is dlvl6.
> >
> > From Hearse stats, the most deadly level is Minetown.
>
> Dlvl6 is the first possible level for Minetown and both have a very large
> number of deaths attributible to them ... it can't be just a coincidence,
> eh?

Well, there is an additional bit of bias in the Hearse stats in that it
just represents how many bones have been uploaded for a given level, and
the different levels don't have the same chance of leaving bones.

But yeah, I think Minetown is likely the culprit. Too much hanging
around and sacrificing

-- A.

--
My email address is hearse[AT]hotpop[DOT]com

Hearse Windows/Unix client: http://hearse.krollmark.com
Hearse announcements: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hearseannounce

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Alexis <me@privacy.net> wrote in
news:42c5ba2e$0$65479$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net:

> cyde@umd.edu wrote:
>> Alexis <me@privacy.net> wrote
>> > cyde@umd.edu wrote:
>> >> I'm looking at nethack.alt.org's stats and I've noticed something
>> >> very interesting. The most deadly level in the dungeon by far is
>> >> dlvl6.
>> >
>> > From Hearse stats, the most deadly level is Minetown.
>>
>> Dlvl6 is the first possible level for Minetown and both have a very
>> large number of deaths attributible to them ... it can't be just a
>> coincidence, eh?
>
> Well, there is an additional bit of bias in the Hearse stats in that
> it just represents how many bones have been uploaded for a given
> level, and the different levels don't have the same chance of leaving
> bones.
>
> But yeah, I think Minetown is likely the culprit. Too much hanging
> around and sacrificing

However, Dlvl6 is just one of many possibilities for Minetown, yet it has a
good deal more deaths on it than Dlvl7 or Dlvl8, for instance. Is Dlvl6
simply the most likely occurrence of Minetown, or is the location of
Minetown split by probabilities fairly evenly across its Dlvl range? Any
source divers care to investigate this matter?


--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:
> I'm looking at nethack.alt.org's stats and I've noticed something very
> interesting. The most deadly level in the dungeon by far is dlvl6.
>>From dlvl1 to dlvl5 the number of deaths steadily drop but then all of
> a sudden at dlvl6 they jump up to NINE TIMES the fatality rate of dlvl5
> and then starts falling off again. What is the cause? I can think of
> two things: dlvl6 is the first level that Minetown can occur on, and
> also, don't poison spike pit traps start at dlvl6?
>
> The info is here:
> http://alt.org/nethack/statnethack/statnethack-d.txt
>

My best guess is that that is the first level that ants are likely to
appear. Only problem with that theory is that exp lvls can differ and
affect that wuite a bit.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:
> I'm looking at nethack.alt.org's stats and I've noticed something very
> interesting. The most deadly level in the dungeon by far is dlvl6.
> >From dlvl1 to dlvl5 the number of deaths steadily drop but then all of
> a sudden at dlvl6 they jump up to NINE TIMES the fatality rate of dlvl5
> and then starts falling off again. What is the cause? I can think of
> two things: dlvl6 is the first level that Minetown can occur on, and
> also, don't poison spike pit traps start at dlvl6?
>

This is strange indeed!
My two cents though: it does not seem level 6 is the first possible
level for minetown, as I am currently in minetown on level 5.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:

> However, Dlvl6 is just one of many possibilities for Minetown, yet it
> has a good deal more deaths on it than Dlvl7 or Dlvl8, for instance.
> Is Dlvl6 simply the most likely occurrence of Minetown, or is the
> location of Minetown split by probabilities fairly evenly across its
> Dlvl range?

That may be the case, but I don't have the source before me.

It may also be just as likely to appear on any of the levels 6 and
deeper. Keep in mind that if that is the case, players will still arrive
at level 6 with an EXP level that is on average lower that players
arriving at level 7, so it will be more difficult to handle minetown.

--
Boudewijn.

"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
- Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 1 Jul 2005 13:55:34 -0700, "Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> wrote:

>I'm looking at nethack.alt.org's stats and I've noticed something very
>interesting. The most deadly level in the dungeon by far is dlvl6.
>>From dlvl1 to dlvl5 the number of deaths steadily drop but then all of
>a sudden at dlvl6 they jump up to NINE TIMES the fatality rate of dlvl5
>and then starts falling off again. What is the cause?

Drop bears and hoop snakes.


Jove

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:
> I'm looking at nethack.alt.org's stats and I've noticed something very
> interesting. The most deadly level in the dungeon by far is dlvl6.
>>From dlvl1 to dlvl5 the number of deaths steadily drop but then all of
> a sudden at dlvl6 they jump up to NINE TIMES the fatality rate of dlvl5
> and then starts falling off again. What is the cause? I can think of
> two things: dlvl6 is the first level that Minetown can occur on, and
> also, don't poison spike pit traps start at dlvl6?
>
> The info is here:
> http://alt.org/nethack/statnethack/statnethack-d.txt

My opinion is differing to the prevalent presumption in this thread.

I had always the impression that it is not minetown, but the Oracle
level that is some barrier. (At least for me.)

I got curious and inspected your link; it also matches the Oracle
level range, with an appropriate mean value and expected distribution.
Then I inspected my logfile■ and sorted it by level _and_ by dungeon
branch; the deaths have to an overwhelming extent been in the main
branch (roughly 85%), not in the mines (roughly 15%). Though with one
single exception, level _5_ (which might or not be the mine town); on
level 5 there is a distribution of 62% for main dungeon and 38% mines.

There are fixed (non-guard) monsters associated with the special levels:
13 in every intermediate mine level, 9,10,8,13,16,14,19 (avg. 12.7) in
the different mine town variants; so there is no difference between the
intermediate mine fill levels and the mine town levels with respect to
the amount of fixed monsters.[**]

There are some monsters that can be generated only on special levels;
e.g. and AFAIR, (baby) crocodiles on Oracle.

Now, it would be interesting to see the distribution of the monster
generation for each level and dungeon branch. Maybe it's just the type
of monsters generated that is crucial (soldier ants come to my mind).

Janis

■ YMMV, since logfiles also reflect the specific player strategy. You
may want to make the analysis on your logfiles, too (column 3 is the
branch (0=main dungeon, 2=mines), and column 4 the level of feath).

[**] Assuming for a moment that it has always been minetown at level 5;
then it might also be possible that there is the peak because one usually
stays longer on the town level than on other mine levels (due to shopping,
price-ID'ing, sacrificing, etc.), thus increasing the time interval to
possibly get killed.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 7/2/05 7:01 AM, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

> My opinion is differing to the prevalent presumption in this thread.
>
> I had always the impression that it is not minetown, but the Oracle
> level that is some barrier. (At least for me.)

This is what I was thinking as well. ISTR that the Oracle level favors
creation of neutral monsters, which tend to be more deadly than lawfuls
and chaotics at that stage of the game. Primary among the deadlier
neutrals are soldier ants.

--
Kevin Wayne

"Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare
their souls." --Steve Hindalong

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I just found out what this is.

statnethack cuts things off at 4 characters for that column, so
everything from dlvl 1-5 is simply missing a significant digit. I'm
fixing the script now on alt.org.

-drew

 

[seraphim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> wrote in
news:Xns9686B484F88D02galopagosterrapincy@199.45.49.11:

> Alexis <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:42c5b507$0$108$65c69314
> @mercury.nildram.net:
>
>> cyde@umd.edu wrote:
>>> I'm looking at nethack.alt.org's stats and I've noticed something
>>> very interesting. The most deadly level in the dungeon by far is
>>> dlvl6.
>>
>> From Hearse stats, the most deadly level is Minetown.
>
> Dlvl6 is the first possible level for Minetown and both have a very
> large number of deaths attributible to them ... it can't be just a
> coincidence, eh?

Dlvl5 is the first possible level for Minetown. It can be the 3rd level
of the mines, and the first level of the mines can be Dlvl3.