Aaaargh! I hate this game!

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I've been playing nethack on and off for several years now. What happens
is I get into it for a few months, get frustrated at how difficult it
is, and then give up for a while. A year or two later, the cycle
repeats. So as you can imagine, I've never come anywhere close to
ascension. In fact, I generally never make it past dlvl 6 before dying.

But I've been reading this newsgroup quite a bit lately, and practicing
a bit, and I'm slowly learning. I've managed to escape a couple of nasty
situations that would certainly have killed me a year or two ago.

So in the interest of improving my game, I have a couple of questions.

1) Assuming that it's a bad idea to identify scrolls and potions by just
trying them out and seeing what happens, how do you get them identified?
Is there another way besides waiting until a shop appears and then
price-IDing a scroll of Identify? I suppose I could just read the
spoilers and price-ID everything, but I'd rather find a way to actually
*identify* my items, before using them.

2) I've seen people post that their character has a naked AC of -10 or
whatever; how does one increase one's AC?

3) Can only certain classes cast spells? I usually play as a samurai,
and when I find a spellbook, sometimes I can read it and successfully
learn a spell. But if I try to cast it, I see that it has a failure rate
of 100%, even if I take off all of my armor. Will I eventually be able
to cast the spells I've learned (assuming I live long enough), or can
only certain classes cast spells? If the latter, why the heck can I
learn them in the first place?

Thanks in advance.

--
Karl von Laudermann - karlvonl(a)rcn.com - http://www.geocities.com/~karlvonl
#!/usr/bin/env ruby
require "complex";w=39;m=2.0;w.times{|y|w.times{|x|c=Complex.new((m*x/w)-1.5,
(2.0*y/w)-1.0);z=c;e=false;49.times{z=z*z+c;if z.abs>m then e=true;break;end}
print(e ?" ":"@@");puts if x==w-1;}}
 
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Karl von Laudermann wrote:
> 1) Assuming that it's a bad idea to identify scrolls and potions by just
> trying them out and seeing what happens, how do you get them identified?
> Is there another way besides waiting until a shop appears and then
> price-IDing a scroll of Identify? I suppose I could just read the
> spoilers and price-ID everything, but I'd rather find a way to actually
> *identify* my items, before using them.

You can (semi-)identify rings with the help of sinks, some potions by
dipping things into them and some (most) wands by engraving with them.


> 2) I've seen people post that their character has a naked AC of -10 or
> whatever; how does one increase one's AC?

Divine favor. Either caused by praying at an altar or by donating a
certain amount of money to a priest.


> 3) Can only certain classes cast spells? I usually play as a samurai,
> and when I find a spellbook, sometimes I can read it and successfully
> learn a spell. But if I try to cast it, I see that it has a failure rate
> of 100%, even if I take off all of my armor. Will I eventually be able
> to cast the spells I've learned (assuming I live long enough), or can
> only certain classes cast spells? If the latter, why the heck can I
> learn them in the first place?

The following factors affect your spell failure rates:
- Your armor (metal armor and shields=bad; robe=good)
- Your INT or WIS
- The spell's level
- Your level
- Your skill in the spell's school of magic.

As far as I know your class has nothing to do with it. Every class can
cast spells with high enough level and INT/WIS. Of course your class
affects your starting INT and WIS and how far you can advance in the
different spell schools (and your starting skills in those schools,
too), so some classes can cast spells more easily.


--
If geiger counter does not click,
the coffee, she is just not thick
 
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The Prophet Karl von Laudermann known to the wise as karlvonl@rcn.com, opened the Book of Words, and read unto the people:
>3) Can only certain classes cast spells? I usually play as a samurai,
>and when I find a spellbook, sometimes I can read it and successfully
>learn a spell. But if I try to cast it, I see that it has a failure rate
>of 100%, even if I take off all of my armor.

Every class can cast spells, and I believe it is theoretically
possible for every class to get a nonzero success rate with every
spell. However, spells' failure rates are dictated by (most
significantly, and I could be wrong about some of these): your role,
your stat in either INT or WIS depending on your role, your choice of
armor, your level, your spell-skill level, and the spell's school and
level. In particular, most of the combat-wombat classes (samurai,
valkyries, barbarians, cavemen, and to a lesser extent rangers) are
actually pretty terrible at spellcasting, so until they get to high
levels (and even then only if they aren't wearing metallic armor)
they're not likely to be able to cast spells well enough to make it
worth it.

--
D. Jacob (Jake) Wildstrom, Math monkey and freelance thinker

"A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems."
-Alfred Renyi

The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily endorsed by the
University of California or math department thereof.
 
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Karl von Laudermann wrote:

> 1) Assuming that it's a bad idea to identify scrolls and potions by
> just trying them out and seeing what happens, how do you get them
> identified? Is there another way besides waiting until a shop appears
> and then price-IDing a scroll of Identify? I suppose I could just
> read the spoilers and price-ID everything, but I'd rather find a way
> to actually *identify* my items, before using them.

I only price-ID the scroll of identify, and use those to identify
scrolles. Sometimes monsters using scrolls in sight will identify them
for you. I don't identify scrolls by trying them out.

Potions are less dangerous, so whenever I find a blessed potion, I try
it out (after checking if it is a potion of polymorph by dipping
something in it). Clear potions are always water, potions carried by
nymphs (almost) always object detection. Again, monsters using them will
often identify potions for you.

> 2) I've seen people post that their character has a naked AC of -10 or
> whatever; how does one increase one's AC?

A naked AC of -10 is *very* difficult to obtain. A naked AC of +1 is
easier: you need money for that. Every time you donate 400 times your
experience level to a priest, he will grant you an AC bonus; 2-4 the
first time, 1 every next time, until you have a naked AC of +1.

After that, there is still a very small chance that your god will better
your naked AC, you would do that by either offering corpses or praying
(I believe it is offering, but I'm not sure).

> 3) Can only certain classes cast spells? I usually play as a samurai,
> and when I find a spellbook, sometimes I can read it and successfully
> learn a spell. But if I try to cast it, I see that it has a failure
> rate of 100%, even if I take off all of my armor. Will I eventually
> be able to cast the spells I've learned (assuming I live long
> enough), or can only certain classes cast spells? If the latter, why
> the heck can I learn them in the first place?

Every class can cast spells. However, for fighter classes, it is very
difficult. To cast spells, you shouldn't be wearing any metallic armour;
shields, body armour and helmets are especially bad for you failure
chance. A robe on the other hand *helps* you cast spells.

A level 30 valkyrie wearing nothing but a robe, however, still won't
have a 0% failure chance for the more difficult spells.

--
Boudewijn.

"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
- Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad.
 
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Sebastian Hungerecker wrote:

> The following factors affect your spell failure rates:
> - Your armor (metal armor and shields=bad; robe=good)
> - Your INT or WIS
> - The spell's level
> - Your level
> - Your skill in the spell's school of magic.
>
> As far as I know your class has nothing to do with it.

Untrue.

I could elaborate on this, but I think it would be easier to refer to
the spells spoiler on Dylan's site:

http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/spl1-343.txt

--
Boudewijn.

"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
- Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad.
 
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Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> After that, there is still a very small chance that your god will better
> your naked AC, you would do that by either offering corpses or praying
> (I believe it is offering, but I'm not sure).

Offering until just before the god gives you an artifact (tricky, easy to
overdo) and then praying. "Thou hast pleased me with thy progress, and
therefore I grant thee the gift of my protection!" or something like
that.

Raisse, killed by the wrath of Thoth

--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
 
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Quoting Jym <moyen@loria.fr>:
>If you want to be completely spoiled, read the object identification
>spoiler (http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/id_faq.html). To be less
>spoily, a few tips :

This is quite out of date.

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/games/nhid.html is the most
recent version (itself in need of some work). In general Eva's list of
spoilers at http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html
is more up to date than steelypips, I'm afraid.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Second Monday, Presuary.
 
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Quoting Jake Wildstrom <dwildstr@zeno.ucsd.edu>:
>Every class can cast spells, and I believe it is theoretically
>possible for every class to get a nonzero success rate with every
>spell.

Just about, but not always usefully so. For example a 30th level Valk with
maxed Wis, a robe, and a +5 helm of brilliance can cast cancellation at...
90% failure.

Actually, Barbs have it worse. A Barb is at 98% failure with a +5 HoB (and
robe, maxed stats, etc) and 88% failure with a +7 helm (manufactured by
polypiling elven leather helms, hypothetically).

So I think your statement is true, but there are some spells some classes
will never in practice use.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Second Monday, Presuary.
 
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Jake Wildstrom wrote:

> I believe it is theoretically possible for every class to get a
> nonzero success rate with every spell.

That is not only theoretically possible, but very easy indeed.

Just put on all kinds of metallic armour, and you'll soon have a nonzero
success rate.

Perhaps level 30 wizards might have problems with a spell like magic
missile, but apart from that, most classes should manage to get a
nonzero success rate with almost every spell.

--
Boudewijn.

"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
- Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad.
 
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Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Jake Wildstrom wrote:
>
>
>>I believe it is theoretically possible for every class to get a
>>nonzero success rate with every spell.
>
>
> That is not only theoretically possible, but very easy indeed.
>
> Just put on all kinds of metallic armour, and you'll soon have a nonzero
> success rate.

That would be a nonzero *failure* rate.

--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
 
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John Campbell wrote:
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>> Jake Wildstrom wrote:

>>> I believe it is theoretically possible for every class to get a
>>> nonzero success rate with every spell.

>> Just put on all kinds of metallic armour, and you'll soon have a
>> nonzero success rate.

> That would be a nonzero *failure* rate.

OK. I deserved that for trying to be a wiseguy.

--
Boudewijn.

"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
- Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad.
 
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On Mon, 4 Jul 2005, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> Jake Wildstrom wrote:
>
> > I believe it is theoretically possible for every class to get a
> > nonzero success rate with every spell.
>
> That is not only theoretically possible, but very easy indeed.
>
> Just put on all kinds of metallic armour, and you'll soon have a nonzero
> success rate.
>
> Perhaps level 30 wizards might have problems with a spell like magic
> missile, but apart from that, most classes should manage to get a
> nonzero success rate with almost every spell.

A level 30 wizard with 20 int, iron shoes, mithril coat, GoP, dwaren helm,
expert attack still has 100% failure when casting MM or force bolt.

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
 

James

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In article <karlvonl-4ED2B3.13163402072005@news.isp.giganews.com>,
Karl von Laudermann <karlvonl@rcn.com> wrote:
>
>
>I've been playing nethack on and off for several years now. What happens
>is I get into it for a few months, get frustrated at how difficult it
>is, and then give up for a while. A year or two later, the cycle
>repeats. So as you can imagine, I've never come anywhere close to
>ascension. In fact, I generally never make it past dlvl 6 before dying.
>
>But I've been reading this newsgroup quite a bit lately, and practicing
>a bit, and I'm slowly learning. I've managed to escape a couple of nasty
>situations that would certainly have killed me a year or two ago.
>
>So in the interest of improving my game, I have a couple of questions.
>
>1) Assuming that it's a bad idea to identify scrolls and potions by just
>trying them out and seeing what happens, how do you get them identified?

To begin with, there's the process of elimination.
I don't use *any* scroll or potion unless it's a quite desperate
situation.

I start by trying to identify Scare Monster. So I don't even *pick up*
any scrolls for a good while.

Some scrolls and potions are identified when used against you. Furthers
the process of elimination.

After a while, I'll have a little process I go through where I think the
scroll I'm holding is charging, enchant armor, destroy armor, enchant
weapon, or remove curse, and so on. I'll equip myself accordingly, so
that I will get some benefit from the reading. More elimination.

Potions generally wait until I've got a unicorn horn. I have a way to
check for oil, so there's elimination there. Sometimes I'll start
dipping, but I'd really rather wait for my second unicorn horn before I
do much dipping (I'd much rather discover polymorph by dipping a unicorn
horn and getting a magical tool, than discover it by turning a dart into
a polearm.)

>2) I've seen people post that their character has a naked AC of -10 or
>whatever; how does one increase one's AC?

Sacrifice! Also, heavy donation to priests will do it. (400 * XL,
the reason many players will pacifist down to minetown as their first
goal).

>3) Can only certain classes cast spells? I usually play as a samurai,
>and when I find a spellbook, sometimes I can read it and successfully
>learn a spell. But if I try to cast it, I see that it has a failure rate
>of 100%, even if I take off all of my armor.

Put on a robe and a helm of brilliance, and you should be able to lift
some of your spellcasting limits. But a samurai isn't exactly a
spellcaster, so it's never going to be the best thing.
 
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On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:44:23 GMT
fishbowl@conservatory.com (james) wrote:

>By managing your luck (keeping it slightly *low*), you can maximize
>protection (and minimize spellbooks).

Or you could maximize both with a spell book of protection.
;-)
 

James

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In article <42c78b3f$0$74546$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
Raisse the Thaumaturge <raisse@valdyas.org> wrote:

>Offering until just before the god gives you an artifact (tricky, easy to
>overdo) and then praying. "Thou hast pleased me with thy progress, and
>therefore I grant thee the gift of my protection!" or something like
>that.

By managing your luck (keeping it slightly *low*), you can maximize
protection (and minimize spellbooks).