YAFM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Raisse the Thaumaturge wrote:
> Baalzebub demands 4 zorkmids for safe passage.
>
> (admittedly I was carrying only 11 in the open; he didn't notice the
> almost 9000 I had in my bag)
>
> Raisse, killed by a horned devil

Related to that...since the Vault guards seem to be able to tell that
there's some gold in container held by the player (or don't they?),
can't we have big named damons who are as smart?

-K

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kremti wrote on 5 Jul 2005 06:43:33 -0700:

> Related to that...since the Vault guards seem to be able to tell that
> there's some gold in container held by the player (or don't they?),
> can't we have big named damons who are as smart?

Well, when it comes down to it it doesn't really make any sense for
demons to be able to tell how much gold you have in your "open"
inventory either! Presumably you're not carrying the money in your
hands, but rather in some sort of purse (c.f. the leprechaun "your
purse feels lighter" message.) What do they do, grab your belt pouch
and yank it open? (If so, why not just grab the gold while they're at
it?) Or are the money pouches transparent?

Or if demons do have the same sort of magical gold detection sense as
Vault guards, as pointed out above, why on earth can't they tell if
you're carrying "stashed" money?

Actually, what would make the most sense is if the demon just grabbed
your belt pouch and ran off with it. If you're the biggest, meanest
thing this side of Vlad's Tower, why bother asking? :-)

Artemis the Ranger

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kremti wrote on 5 Jul 2005 06:43:33 -0700:
> Raisse the Thaumaturge wrote:
> > Baalzebub demands 4 zorkmids for safe passage.
> >
> > (admittedly I was carrying only 11 in the open; he didn't notice the
> > almost 9000 I had in my bag)
> >
> > Raisse, killed by a horned devil
>
> Related to that...since the Vault guards seem to be able to tell that
> there's some gold in container held by the player (or don't they?),
> can't we have big named damons who are as smart?

It doesn't seem very smart for the demon to accept only a few gold when
the player only has a few gold. I think the demon should demand a large
sum of gold, such as 200*monster level. If the player attempted to
appease the demon but did not have enough gold, it would grab enough
valuable gems from his inventory to make up the difference.


--
"Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, Kremti wrote:

> Raisse the Thaumaturge wrote:
> > Baalzebub demands 4 zorkmids for safe passage.
> >
> > (admittedly I was carrying only 11 in the open; he didn't notice the
> > almost 9000 I had in my bag)
> >
> > Raisse, killed by a horned devil
>
> Related to that...since the Vault guards seem to be able to tell that
> there's some gold in container held by the player (or don't they?),
> can't we have big named damons who are as smart?

I guess when a demon ask for a bribe you only have ne move to give it
(that is, teh answer to the question) and so cannot access your sack while
guard leave you time to drop your gold and stay peaceful during that time.

Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Rast <rast2@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1d348a16ae7bba0b98a36f@216.168.3.44:

> Kremti wrote on 5 Jul 2005 06:43:33 -0700:
>> Raisse the Thaumaturge wrote:
>> > Baalzebub demands 4 zorkmids for safe passage.
>> >
>> > (admittedly I was carrying only 11 in the open; he didn't notice the
>> > almost 9000 I had in my bag)
>> >
>> > Raisse, killed by a horned devil
>>
>> Related to that...since the Vault guards seem to be able to tell that
>> there's some gold in container held by the player (or don't they?),
>> can't we have big named damons who are as smart?
>
> It doesn't seem very smart for the demon to accept only a few gold when
> the player only has a few gold. I think the demon should demand a large
> sum of gold, such as 200*monster level. If the player attempted to
> appease the demon but did not have enough gold, it would grab enough
> valuable gems from his inventory to make up the difference.
>
>

Yeah, make nethack HARDER...

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 2005-07-05, wcristalle@hotmail.com wrote:
> Kremti wrote on 5 Jul 2005 06:43:33 -0700:
>
>> Related to that...since the Vault guards seem to be able to tell that
>> there's some gold in container held by the player (or don't they?),
>> can't we have big named damons who are as smart?
>
> Well, when it comes down to it it doesn't really make any sense for
> demons to be able to tell how much gold you have in your "open"
> inventory either! Presumably you're not carrying the money in your
> hands, but rather in some sort of purse (c.f. the leprechaun "your
> purse feels lighter" message.) What do they do, grab your belt pouch
> and yank it open? (If so, why not just grab the gold while they're at
> it?) Or are the money pouches transparent?
>
The distinction between visible and non-visible (gold|items) is made at
other places, too (shopkeepers see pickaxes in main inv, but not in the
bag; priests, IIRC, give different messages upon donating depending on
the ratio of donated gold to _visible_ gold (not in bag)), although
some messages hint at a "purse" and a "knapsack". Apparently, those
"containers" (that are only hinted at in messages) do at least allow to
guess the contents from outside.

--
Jann Ohle Claussen | GPG-Key-ID E7149169
http://www.stud.uni-goettingen.de/~s251251
"My education message will resignate amonst all parents."
--dubya

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Rast <rast2@hotmail.com> writes:

> It doesn't seem very smart for the demon to accept only a few gold when
> the player only has a few gold. I think the demon should demand a large
> sum of gold, such as 200*monster level.

I'd prefer something like

max( (char's gold in main inv)/2, 400*char-level)

but you have my vote in any case.

> If the player attempted to
> appease the demon but did not have enough gold, it would grab enough
> valuable gems from his inventory to make up the difference.

Nice touch as well.

Best,
Jakob

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 7/5/05 3:18 PM, chuck wrote:
> Rast <rast2@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.1d348a16ae7bba0b98a36f@216.168.3.44:
>
>>It doesn't seem very smart for the demon to accept only a few gold when
>>the player only has a few gold. I think the demon should demand a large
>>sum of gold, such as 200*monster level. If the player attempted to
>>appease the demon but did not have enough gold, it would grab enough
>>valuable gems from his inventory to make up the difference.
>
> Yeah, make nethack HARDER...

Well... yes.

The hardest part of Nethack is the beginning. The main complaint of
players who can regularly get to Gehennom is that that stage of the game
is simply tedious. Besides, there's plenty of gold in Gehennom; if you
*want* to bribe the demon (which is not at all necessary), obtaining a
few thousand extra zorkmids to do it with is no trouble at all.

--
Kevin Wayne

"Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare
their souls." --Steve Hindalong

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kevin Wayne wrote:
> The hardest part of Nethack is the beginning. The main complaint of
> players who can regularly get to Gehennom is that that stage of the game
> is simply tedious. Besides, there's plenty of gold in Gehennom; if you
> *want* to bribe the demon (which is not at all necessary), obtaining a
> few thousand extra zorkmids to do it with is no trouble at all.

Aye. By the time I get to Gehennom, I'm usually just leaving
gold lying on the floor, because I have no use for it anymore... and the
stacks lying around that deep in the dungeon are pretty large.

I played one rogue who made it her mission to collect every
zorkmid and valuable gem in the dungeon. I had to leave the gold in a
box by the upstairs because hauling it all through the Planes didn't
look practical... but at the end of the game, there was about $200,000
in that box. $50k or so came from Ludios, another $50k came from the
rest of the upper dungeon. The remaining $100k came from Gehennom, most
of it just lying on the floor in the maze. There's plenty of gold in
Gehennom if you want it.

And I never bother bribing demons, anyway. Killing them is easy
for a character tough enough to get that far in the first place, and
it's more fun. Really, *they* should bribe *me* for safe passage. And
not with gold, either... I want something *useful*.

"Hey, Orcus, fork over the wand, and I'll let you walk away!"

--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 13:14:52 -0400, Rast wrote:

> Kremti wrote on 5 Jul 2005 06:43:33 -0700:
>> Raisse the Thaumaturge wrote:
>> > Baalzebub demands 4 zorkmids for safe passage.
>> >
>> > (admittedly I was carrying only 11 in the open; he didn't notice the
>> > almost 9000 I had in my bag)
>> >
>> > Raisse, killed by a horned devil
>>
>> Related to that...since the Vault guards seem to be able to tell that
>> there's some gold in container held by the player (or don't they?),
>> can't we have big named damons who are as smart?
>
> It doesn't seem very smart for the demon to accept only a few gold when
> the player only has a few gold. I think the demon should demand a large
> sum of gold, such as 200*monster level. If the player attempted to
> appease the demon but did not have enough gold, it would grab enough
> valuable gems from his inventory to make up the difference.

You've missed the whole point! It's not a question of how much gold he
gets out of it - what does Baalzebub need money for anyway? It's pride!
It's a sense of self-worth! What self-respecting adventurer bribes his
way past a pansy-ass demon lord?

--LWM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 8/30/05 1:28 AM, Little White Mouse wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 13:14:52 -0400, Rast wrote:
>
>>It doesn't seem very smart for the demon to accept only a few gold when
>>the player only has a few gold. I think the demon should demand a large
>>sum of gold, such as 200*monster level. If the player attempted to
>>appease the demon but did not have enough gold, it would grab enough
>>valuable gems from his inventory to make up the difference.
>
> You've missed the whole point! It's not a question of how much gold he
> gets out of it - what does Baalzebub need money for anyway? It's pride!
> It's a sense of self-worth! What self-respecting adventurer bribes his
> way past a pansy-ass demon lord?

The kind who doesn't want to YASD, like my recent Ranger did, fighting
Asmodeus, thinking he had cold resistance when he didn't.

--
Kevin Wayne

"Stark raving sane."
--Rosencrantz and Guildenstern

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Little White Mouse <little.mouse@verizon.com> wrote:
> You've missed the whole point! It's not a question of how much gold he
> gets out of it - what does Baalzebub need money for anyway? It's pride!
> It's a sense of self-worth! What self-respecting adventurer bribes his
> way past a pansy-ass demon lord?

The kind who doesn't want to bother chasing said pansy-ass demon
lord across three levels just for the sake of whacking him. We're on a
mission here, you know! Baalzebub is just a distraction.

--
Oh to have a lodge in some vast wilderness. Where rumors of oppression
and deceit, of unsuccessful and successful wars may never reach me
anymore.
-- William Cowper

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jeremiah DeWitt Weiner <jdw@panix.com> wrote:
> The kind who doesn't want to bother chasing said pansy-ass demon
>lord across three levels just for the sake of whacking him. We're on a
>mission here, you know! Baalzebub is just a distraction.

The only time I find myself having to do more than one level transit to
defeat a demon lord is when he has level-transit magic himself.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\_\/_/ meteorites are outta sight but this one's place is in outer space
\ / if you wanna know i'll tell you why it's cause radiation makes you die
\/ -- Zombina and the Skeletones, "Meteorite"

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Martin Read wrote:
> Jeremiah DeWitt Weiner <jdw@panix.com> wrote:
> > The kind who doesn't want to bother chasing said pansy-ass demon
> >lord across three levels just for the sake of whacking him. We're on a
> >mission here, you know! Baalzebub is just a distraction.
>
> The only time I find myself having to do more than one level transit to
> defeat a demon lord is when he has level-transit magic himself.

IMO, bribing demon lords _is_ defeating them.


--
"Ruleless 'law' will be a political weapon and control of the
judiciary will therefore be a political prize. 'Democracy' will
consist of the chaotic struggle to influence decision makers who are
not responsive to elections." -- Robert Bork