use cpu as graphics chip?
- Thread starter trusnoop
- Start date
the FPU of a 1Ghz Athlon is outdone by a 200Mhz Geforce 3 vertex shader, which is roughly equivelent to a floating point unit.
it would be utterly pointless to use a CPU as a GPU, different beasts, if anything, I want to use a GF3 as a CPU...
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Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
it would be utterly pointless to use a CPU as a GPU, different beasts, if anything, I want to use a GF3 as a CPU...
----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
they have different architectures and run for different purpouses... potentially running the transmeta when it gets over 1ghz on a graphics card wouldnt be such a bad idea with its code morphing... but imagine the prices...
you do not strengthen the weak by weakening the strong
you do not strengthen the weak by weakening the strong
lol
and exactly what do you think binary code is? hmm?
GF3 is designed to process vertex, polygons, shading algorithems(sp), processors are designed to crunch numbers, they're not running logic, they are running binary code.
learn about computers before you start posting garbage.
and I'm not saying the GF3 would be a good processor, but change a few things in the architecture, blend a CPU and GF3, it would kick ass.
not to mention the fact, the GF3 isn't a graphics chip as per say, its a GPU, it is programmable, so in essence, it COULD be used as a CPU.
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Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
and exactly what do you think binary code is? hmm?
GF3 is designed to process vertex, polygons, shading algorithems(sp), processors are designed to crunch numbers, they're not running logic, they are running binary code.
learn about computers before you start posting garbage.
and I'm not saying the GF3 would be a good processor, but change a few things in the architecture, blend a CPU and GF3, it would kick ass.
not to mention the fact, the GF3 isn't a graphics chip as per say, its a GPU, it is programmable, so in essence, it COULD be used as a CPU.
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Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
A geforce3 GPU is hardwired to process GRAPHICAL data, it CANNOT run code like a x86 CPU, what a geforce does is take RAW GRAPHICS DATA IN ONE END AND OUT THE OTHER COMES RENDERED GRAPHICS. The Geforce 3 does not have x86 instruction set capability, the PROGRAMABLE part of the GEforce 3 is the vertex shaders, which basically allow you to color finished pixels to create effects(very simply put). The GPU cannot be used to run software code because it cannot perform many basic functions of x86 archetecture which are neccicary to run modern code. If you CHANGED THE GEFORCE3 AND MADE IT LIKE A PROCESSOR, then it wouldnt be a GPU anymore(thus rendering your point null). The reason a cpu at 1.3ghz cannot perform anywhere near a 200mhz GEFORCE3 is because of specilization and hardwired functions. These specializations for graphics make the GPU useless when it comes to non graphical information.
A combined GPU/Cpu would not be very good because you would have to have distinct parts which would render graphics and run x86 instructions(one depends heavily on branchpredition/logic/binary addition,subtraction etc, while graphics has no branchprediction, has little addition subtraction and is mostly pixel shading and polygon modification(multiplication)
As for calling my post garbage, why dont YOU learn something about computing before making yourself look like a dimwit in public.
~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
A combined GPU/Cpu would not be very good because you would have to have distinct parts which would render graphics and run x86 instructions(one depends heavily on branchpredition/logic/binary addition,subtraction etc, while graphics has no branchprediction, has little addition subtraction and is mostly pixel shading and polygon modification(multiplication)
As for calling my post garbage, why dont YOU learn something about computing before making yourself look like a dimwit in public.
~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
true, it doesn't run x86 code, that's not what you said before, you said it was designed to crunch numbers.
I still say the vertex shader with modifications would make an excellent FPU, its all higher math functions.
My point is not to use a GPU as a CPU, the CPU could take a few advancements of the GF3 GPU and apply them to CPU usage.
you do have a point about the branch prediction, I hadn't thought of that much, but again, the multiplication is highly akin to FPU operation.
had you posted something similar to this before, I'd have agreed to alot of what you said, but posting "no it would suck" or whatever with the general idiot "friends don't let friends buy Pentiums" sig tends to make someone look like an uneducated brand loyal troll.
----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
I still say the vertex shader with modifications would make an excellent FPU, its all higher math functions.
My point is not to use a GPU as a CPU, the CPU could take a few advancements of the GF3 GPU and apply them to CPU usage.
you do have a point about the branch prediction, I hadn't thought of that much, but again, the multiplication is highly akin to FPU operation.
had you posted something similar to this before, I'd have agreed to alot of what you said, but posting "no it would suck" or whatever with the general idiot "friends don't let friends buy Pentiums" sig tends to make someone look like an uneducated brand loyal troll.
----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
"friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
What's wrong with that? You an Intel fan? Must be the touchy spot...
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I am, you know I am. I am Canadian.
What's wrong with that? You an Intel fan? Must be the touchy spot...
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I am, you know I am. I am Canadian.
I can assure you I am no brand loyal troll, you will never see me attack a processor without evidence like Fugger, or comment against trolls for no reason. I still however fail to see how the vertex shader can be used to process instruction when it is merely a pixel color changing tool.
~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
~true, it doesn't run x86 code, that's not what you said before, you said it was designed to crunch numbers.~
By crunching numbers I meant this, A GPU takes data in one end and converts it, decodes it, in a straight forward and non changing manner according to the programing. There is no randomness no variation in this process(the GPU does not render a scene and then use the data from that scene to affect its next scene((with the exception of pre programmed features like quincunx and motion blur effects, etc.)), it is a static line.
Processing code requires branching, and change, one second the cpu is set to do multiplication, the next its loaded a whole different set of instructions to perform on different data, in order to have this flexibility the cpu must be a jack of all trades so to speak. A GPU is a master of one thing, graphics, from setup to render the GPU does what it was desinged for, and does not make changes to its process. To make a CPU with more GPU like qualities would only serve to limit its function.
Take the P4 for example, It's pipeline is set up for function heavy multimedia processing, and it does well in those benchmarks, but give it a simple(extremely simplified example ahead) 3 stage problem(like a simple math or simple word data work((IE. Office APPS)) and the extra steps it uses to do the complex functions on video are wasted, resulting in a less flexible and slower processor for these functions. Specialization in one process on a CPU either costs you more silicon real estate or costs you performance on things which are not specialized.
~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
By crunching numbers I meant this, A GPU takes data in one end and converts it, decodes it, in a straight forward and non changing manner according to the programing. There is no randomness no variation in this process(the GPU does not render a scene and then use the data from that scene to affect its next scene((with the exception of pre programmed features like quincunx and motion blur effects, etc.)), it is a static line.
Processing code requires branching, and change, one second the cpu is set to do multiplication, the next its loaded a whole different set of instructions to perform on different data, in order to have this flexibility the cpu must be a jack of all trades so to speak. A GPU is a master of one thing, graphics, from setup to render the GPU does what it was desinged for, and does not make changes to its process. To make a CPU with more GPU like qualities would only serve to limit its function.
Take the P4 for example, It's pipeline is set up for function heavy multimedia processing, and it does well in those benchmarks, but give it a simple(extremely simplified example ahead) 3 stage problem(like a simple math or simple word data work((IE. Office APPS)) and the extra steps it uses to do the complex functions on video are wasted, resulting in a less flexible and slower processor for these functions. Specialization in one process on a CPU either costs you more silicon real estate or costs you performance on things which are not specialized.
~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
no, I'm not a big Intel fan, but general comments like that are stupid. Intel since about 1992 has been "Pentium".
so, yea, its a stupid generalization and lowers my opinion of him immediately.
----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
so, yea, its a stupid generalization and lowers my opinion of him immediately.
----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
you do have a serious point there, part of the reason the vertex shader does so much better than the FPU of current day processors is probably due to its linear nature.
and of course, being designed with that in mind...
anyway, I agree, but I still hold that the CPU industry needs to adopt some portions of the GF3 vertex shader in some form or another as a high end math unit on the CPU. if nothing else, it is much more recent, it handles loads more information, but of course, it is streaming information, which rarely ever occurs in reference to a CPU.
sum up, I am impressed with the vertex shader of the GF3, I wonder just how usefull it *could* be, if adopted into other areas.
----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
and of course, being designed with that in mind...
anyway, I agree, but I still hold that the CPU industry needs to adopt some portions of the GF3 vertex shader in some form or another as a high end math unit on the CPU. if nothing else, it is much more recent, it handles loads more information, but of course, it is streaming information, which rarely ever occurs in reference to a CPU.
sum up, I am impressed with the vertex shader of the GF3, I wonder just how usefull it *could* be, if adopted into other areas.
----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
A chip that functions as a CPU/GPU might not be good for PCs, but what about consoles?
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I am, you know I am. I am Canadian.
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I am, you know I am. I am Canadian.
I had thought about that, but it wasn't my major thought on the subject.
why could the CPU not forward all higher math calls to the Vertex shader/off die math unit(again, external math co) in streaming format?
the CPU controls what goes in to the FPU(VTS)and the VTS spits it out.
maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but...
----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
why could the CPU not forward all higher math calls to the Vertex shader/off die math unit(again, external math co) in streaming format?
the CPU controls what goes in to the FPU(VTS)and the VTS spits it out.
maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but...
----------------------
Independant thought is good.
It won't hurt for long.
I been researching a lot, trying to have one of the core of my AMD Phenom II Processor act as a GPU, there a lot of samples code in the AMD page
http://developer.amd.com/GPU/Pages/default.aspx
You can also try the code for ati graphics card in the Linux system, is C++, and is open source
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver
http://developer.amd.com/GPU/Pages/default.aspx
You can also try the code for ati graphics card in the Linux system, is C++, and is open source
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver
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