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Stopping pets from attacking peacefuls

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Anonymous
July 8, 2005 11:17:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I've been playing NetHack for a few months now, and I have managed the
basics (after I learnt all the controls). I can get down to lvl6 of the
gnomish mines.

One thing i can't figure though, is how to stop my pet dog or cat from
attacking everything in sight, even dwarfs or gnomes that aren't
hostile. I know (well, I'm guessing) that I don't get any alignment
penalties for my pet killing peacefuls, and that they sometimes drop
useful items, but sometimes I want to keep the peacefuls around, and
don't want my pet getting killed when the peacefuls counter-attack.

I've only tried the few things I can think off. I've found leashes
before, but they're not easy to find, and a little inconvenient.
"Chatting" to the pet seems to just makes them bark, yip, etc.

Considering what I've heard about rewarding pets with food to train
them, I did try to "kick" my dog after it attacked a dwarf, but NetHack
asked me if I was sure I wanted to attack it, so I said no (I've gotten
bad luck before, I think, from killing my pet). Can I punish my pets
somehow? Or is rewards of food the only training method? How would you
reward them for /not/ attacking something?

I've enjoyed discovering things for myself in NetHack (in fact, I think
it does that sort of thing better than any other game), but I've tried
what I can think of, and I'm now wondering if perhaps there is no way to
prevent them attacking. Can anyone give me an answer on this, or at
least confirm there isn't one?

Thanks
Nathan Craike
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 11:17:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Nathan Craike <NCraike+news@gmail.com> writes:

> I've been playing NetHack for a few months now, and I have managed the
> basics (after I learnt all the controls). I can get down to lvl6 of
> the gnomish mines.
>
> One thing i can't figure though, is how to stop my pet dog or cat from
> attacking everything in sight, even dwarfs or gnomes that aren't
> hostile. I know (well, I'm guessing) that I don't get any alignment
> penalties for my pet killing peacefuls, and that they sometimes drop
> useful items, but sometimes I want to keep the peacefuls around, and
> don't want my pet getting killed when the peacefuls counter-attack.

Hmhh.. I'm curious. Why do you want the peacefuls around? The
ones with useful interaction possibilities I am aware of are
quite well-prepared to defend against a dog, cat or horse (a
horse might acutally kill a shopkeeper, but this takes some time).

If it's for roleplaying, the only way I am aware of keeping
your pet from attacking is to part it from the peacfuls.
Social interaction is not really detailed in nethack.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 11:17:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Nathan Craike wrote:
> my pets keep getting killed by attacking peacefuls too strong for them.
> I'd like to keep my pet alive so it can help me,

2 things come to mind:
1- magic whistle. This is a good way to drag your pet away from any
combat it is in, but like leashes, they are fairly hard to come by in
the early game.
2- Healing. If you have the requisite potion, spell or wand, use it on
your pet to heal him up, so that he doesn't get killed so easily.

Also, bear in mind that with every successful kill, your pet gets that
little bit tougher, so letting him eat gnomes and dwarves can actually
increase his survivability.
Related resources
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 11:17:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I'm pretty new to NH. I have seen my pet evolve after killing things
(although it seems like it is near to my XPlvl, and hasn't done as much
killing as I have, so I think there is something that makes the pet
grow with the owner) from a kitten/little dog to a cat/dog. It's
pretty cool. But my Cat stepped on to a poly morph trap, and was
turned into a Quantum Mechanic. I like that a lot, especially if I get
into a battle with something bigger than I am, He just touches it, and
it gets teleported to some spot on the same level, giving me a break to
recuperate. He now also picks up armor and has a Unicorn Horn (I don't
know if he knows how to use it though, but he won't drop it, so I think
he does know). Once in a while it is kind of aggravating because I'll
be battling an easy opponent, and my pet will make it disappear, so I
have to go find it again. The last time I looked, my pet was lvl10!
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 11:17:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Nathan Craike wrote:
<snip>
> One thing i can't figure though, is how to stop my pet dog or cat from
> attacking everything in sight, even dwarfs or gnomes that aren't
> hostile. I know (well, I'm guessing) that I don't get any alignment
> penalties for my pet killing peacefuls, and that they sometimes drop
> useful items, but sometimes I want to keep the peacefuls around, and
> don't want my pet getting killed when the peacefuls counter-attack.
<snip>

Basically, the best you can do is not to let them go next to the
thing(s) you don't want the particular pet to attack. I know it's not
much help, but that's pretty much all you can do.

So, as you mentioned, things like leash, magic whistles helps.
Displacing the pets away helps a bit. Lock them up in a room helps.

-K
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 11:17:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 21:53:01 +0200
"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:

#turning it safe, by pushing a boulder onto it.
odd. I always assumed (stupid me) that putting items on a nondescript "polymorph"
trap, would poly morph them.
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 11:17:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford wrote:

> "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:
>
>> turning it safe, by pushing a boulder onto it.
> odd. I always assumed (stupid me) that putting items on a nondescript
> "polymorph" trap, would poly morph them.

Others have suggested that, but I believe the general consensus is that it
would be far too abusable, particularly if doing so did not deactivate the
trap.

Is there any particular reason you're using '#' for your quoting character
rather than the standard '>'? Using non standard quoting characters will
often confuse newsreaders that render quoted text in different colours.
I could add this to my newsreader's known list of quote characters, but
then it would make quoted C source code look weird.

--
Benjamin Lewis

"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips
over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
--Matt Groening
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 11:17:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 22:36:18 +0200
"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:

#Benjamin Lewis wrote:
#
#> Is there any particular reason you're using '#' for your quoting
#> character rather than the standard '>'? Using non standard quoting
#> characters will often confuse newsreaders that render quoted text in
#> different colours.
#
#I already sent noah a mail asking the same. It would also be nice if
#s/he would use white space between quoted text and replies, and if s/he
#would use capitalisation...
#
#--
#Boudewijn.
#
#--
#"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
#as my signature..." - Me
#

Sorry everybody. first it was top-posting, then incorrect dates, now the quoting characters.
I used to use |, but got many many many complaints after using it, and then I saw someone else using
# (I think it was rec.games.rougelike.development) and thought, "oh cool! that looks like a nice char"
and thought I'd switch.
Ah well, I guess its not as nice as I first thought it was, I guess I have
to go back to good old > (or maybe <? or /*?)
and as for capitalisation, (I think you meant capitalization...) I never use it ever since switching to
linux. (I mean Linux) even though I used to use it all the time in DOS, most of the files I manage through
bash (Bash?) are lowercase only. (with the exception of Makefile/MakeFile)
as for the space, I really did not know that there was a required way to quote people, I even used
to think you could put your replies on top of the text you want to quote, (I still have no idea why)
instead of having to click on the bottom of the text window every time I want to reply.
I am off to switch my quoting character,
-Noah (a he by the way, for further reference ;-))
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 11:17:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I don't know if you want 'corrections' to your assumptions. If you don't
want to be (slightly) spoiled then don't read the rest of this post.

In news:<1120830691.149682.260270@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, bcr666
<bcr666@gmail.com> says...
> I'm pretty new to NH. I have seen my pet evolve after killing things
> (although it seems like it is near to my XPlvl, and hasn't done as much
> killing as I have, so I think there is something that makes the pet
> grow with the owner) from a kitten/little dog to a cat/dog.

That is not correct, AFAIK your pet gains levels ('hit dice') by killing
and eating. Its advancement does not follow the same system as that for
a player character though.

> It's
> pretty cool. But my Cat stepped on to a poly morph trap, and was
> turned into a Quantum Mechanic. I like that a lot, especially if I get
> into a battle with something bigger than I am, He just touches it, and
> it gets teleported to some spot on the same level, giving me a break to
> recuperate.

Note that polymorph traps does not disappear when 'used' by your pet,
and that there are many other (and more powerful/helpful) things your
pet could turn into. A leash or magic whistle can be helpful to make it
step on the right spot.

> He now also picks up armor and has a Unicorn Horn (I don't
> know if he knows how to use it though, but he won't drop it, so I think
> he does know).

Correct assumption about the unicorn horn.

> Once in a while it is kind of aggravating because I'll
> be battling an easy opponent, and my pet will make it disappear, so I
> have to go find it again. The last time I looked, my pet was lvl10!

Polymorphing affects your pet's level, depending on which type of
monster it ends up as. The monster type also sets the limit of how high
level it can get to. Some monsters (like kitten/housecat/large cat) have
different names (and abilities) depending on their level, others will
advance in level with a name change (but it is still very useful). A pet
will not attack monsters that are much more powerful than itself, except
under special circumstances.

/Kristoffer

--
This cookie has a scrap of paper inside. It reads:
Gurl fnl gung n jnaq bs cbylzbecu pna punatr lbhe tnzr.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:02:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> Nathan Craike <NCraike+news@gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>>I've been playing NetHack for a few months now, and I have managed the
>>basics (after I learnt all the controls). I can get down to lvl6 of
>>the gnomish mines.
>>
>>One thing i can't figure though, is how to stop my pet dog or cat from
>>attacking everything in sight, even dwarfs or gnomes that aren't
>>hostile. I know (well, I'm guessing) that I don't get any alignment
>>penalties for my pet killing peacefuls, and that they sometimes drop
>>useful items, but sometimes I want to keep the peacefuls around, and
>>don't want my pet getting killed when the peacefuls counter-attack.
>
>
> Hmhh.. I'm curious. Why do you want the peacefuls around? The
> ones with useful interaction possibilities I am aware of are
> quite well-prepared to defend against a dog, cat or horse (a
> horse might acutally kill a shopkeeper, but this takes some time).
>
> If it's for roleplaying, the only way I am aware of keeping
> your pet from attacking is to part it from the peacfuls.
> Social interaction is not really detailed in nethack.
>
> Best,
> Jakob

Okay, fair enough - there isn't much point keeping them around, but my
pets keep getting killed by attacking peacefuls too strong for them. I'd
like to keep my pet alive so it can help me, but and I don't want to
have to protect it from every living thing I walk past.

If there's no way to do it, okay, I'll just try to avoid leading my dog
to strong peacefuls that it'll attack, and use a leash when I can find one.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:02:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In news:<dalmm1$ekm$1@austar-news.austar.net.au>, Nathan Craike
<NCraike+news@gmail.com> says...
> Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> > Nathan Craike <NCraike+news@gmail.com> writes:
> >>I've been playing NetHack for a few months now, and I have managed the
> >>basics (after I learnt all the controls). I can get down to lvl6 of
> >>the gnomish mines.
> >>One thing i can't figure though, is how to stop my pet dog or cat from
> >>attacking everything in sight, even dwarfs or gnomes that aren't
> >>hostile. I know (well, I'm guessing) that I don't get any alignment
> >>penalties for my pet killing peacefuls, and that they sometimes drop
> >>useful items, but sometimes I want to keep the peacefuls around, and
> >>don't want my pet getting killed when the peacefuls counter-attack.
> > Hmhh.. I'm curious. Why do you want the peacefuls around? The
> > ones with useful interaction possibilities I am aware of are
> > quite well-prepared to defend against a dog, cat or horse (a
> > horse might acutally kill a shopkeeper, but this takes some time).
> > If it's for roleplaying, the only way I am aware of keeping
> > your pet from attacking is to part it from the peacfuls.
> > Social interaction is not really detailed in nethack.
> Okay, fair enough - there isn't much point keeping them around, but my
> pets keep getting killed by attacking peacefuls too strong for them. I'd
> like to keep my pet alive so it can help me, but and I don't want to
> have to protect it from every living thing I walk past.
> If there's no way to do it, okay, I'll just try to avoid leading my dog
> to strong peacefuls that it'll attack, and use a leash when I can find one.

Pets are actually rather good at not being sucidal. They don't attack
monsters of a much higher level then themselves, and if they get below a
certain health threshold they withdraw from combat until they've
regained some health. Also they are smart enough to not attack some
special insta-kill monsters. All this is under 'normal' circumstances,
there are exceptions.

I almost never use a leash, and almost never a problem with my original
pet dying early (< dungeon level 8-9 or so).

To address the roleplaying issue, one could either pass on keeping a pet
at all (original pet can be 'turned off' in config settings, or just
left alone on lvl 1) or try to keep a very low level pet which still has
strong defense/health and preferably weak attack (examples are left as
an exercise for the reader).

/Kristoffer

--
This cookie has a scrap of paper inside. It reads:
Gurl fnl gung n pyrire jvmneq pna unir fgngf: 18/** 24 18 24 24 24.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:02:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Nathan Craike <NCraike+news@gmail.com> writes:

> Okay, fair enough - there isn't much point keeping them around, but my
> pets keep getting killed by attacking peacefuls too strong for
> them. I'd like to keep my pet alive so it can help me, but and I don't
> want to have to protect it from every living thing I walk past.

Ah, that is more easily resolved. Your pet grows in strength
roughly proportional to the strength of the monsters it kills.
There's a lower cap, however, it always grows by 1 HP. Roughly
a pet does not attack a monster which could easily wipe out its
current HP in one counter--attack (IIRC, please correct me, Dylan).
Hence, they won't attack monsters far too strong, but the watch-captain
in the mines is always to be feared due to her multiple attacks.

A common strategy is to let your pet get most easy kills early
on to get it a HP starting boost, and afterwards just let it
kill the neutral guys. Also, speed monster works on your pet,
so use it. Monsters the pet should not attack are to be
viewed from a distance, for which leashes and/or whistles
(preferrably magic) can be used. Healing spells, if available,
greatly prolong the life of your pet. I found it useful to
play gnomish wanna-be pacifist healers for some time, just to
get a feel about how well my pet is doing.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:46:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Nathan Craike wrote:

> Okay, fair enough - there isn't much point keeping them around, but my
> pets keep getting killed by attacking peacefuls too strong for them.
> I'd like to keep my pet alive so it can help me, but and I don't want
> to have to protect it from every living thing I walk past.

The only creature my dogs and cats always attack that is too strong for
them is the Town Captain. But given Mine Town's layout, it shouldn't be
too difficult to either keep your pet away from him, or lock the captain
in a room.

A pet won't attack creatures that are more than two levels higher than
itself, and it will stop attacking when the defending blow of the
creature it is attacking might kill it in one hit. Alas, this does not
take weapons into account, IIRC, so the captain may still kill it in one
blow with a silver saber or somesuch.

--
Boudewijn.

"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
- Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:48:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote:

> Also, bear in mind that with every successful kill, your pet gets that
> little bit tougher, so letting him eat gnomes and dwarves can actually
> increase his survivability.

Correct at first, but flawed later.

Letting him *kill* will make him tougher.

Letting him *eat* will only increase his tameness, not his HP.

--
Boudewijn.

"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
- Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:50:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

bcr666 wrote:

> [Q pet:] He now also picks up armor and has a Unicorn Horn (I don't
> know if he knows how to use it though, but he won't drop it, so I
> think he does know).

I think intelligent creatures will use it when blinded, confused, etc.

If a pet is capable of wielding weapons, it will also wield it. A
unicorn horn is quite a powerful weapon (but two-handed, alas).

--
Boudewijn.

"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
- Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:53:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kristoffer Björkman wrote:

> I don't know if you want 'corrections' to your assumptions. If you
> don't want to be (slightly) spoiled then don't read the rest of this
> post.

> bcr666 <bcr666@gmail.com> says...

>> I'm pretty new to NH. I have seen my pet evolve after killing things
>> (although it seems like it is near to my XPlvl, and hasn't done as
>> much killing as I have, so I think there is something that makes the
>> pet grow with the owner) from a kitten/little dog to a cat/dog.

> That is not correct, AFAIK your pet gains levels ('hit dice') by
> killing and eating. Its advancement does not follow the same system
> as that for a player character though.

Not correct either. Eating won't make your pet gain levels.

> Note that polymorph traps does not disappear when 'used' by your pet,
> and that there are many other (and more powerful/helpful) things your
> pet could turn into. A leash or magic whistle can be helpful to make
> it step on the right spot.

But note that a polymorph trap won't be used up when used by monsters,
either, so they might pull the same trick on you and your pet when you
leave that trap without turning it safe, by pushing a boulder onto it.

--
Boudewijn.

"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
- Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:54:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kremti wrote:

> Basically, the best you can do is not to let them go next to the
> thing(s) you don't want the particular pet to attack. I know it's not
> much help, but that's pretty much all you can do.

Which is also good advice with non-peaceful creatures that are asleep,
like nymphs usually are. Don't let your pet wake them up, unless you're
quite certain your pet can kill them and is standing between you and the
monster.

--
Boudewijn.

"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
- Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 2:23:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 21:53:01 +0200
> "Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:

> #turning it safe, by pushing a boulder onto it.
> odd. I always assumed (stupid me) that putting items on a nondescript
> "polymorph" trap, would poly morph them.

That would mean you could polypile as many items as you wished, unless
it would disappear when the first item hit it.

--
Boudewijn.

"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
- Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 2:36:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Benjamin Lewis wrote:

> Is there any particular reason you're using '#' for your quoting
> character rather than the standard '>'? Using non standard quoting
> characters will often confuse newsreaders that render quoted text in
> different colours.

I already sent noah a mail asking the same. It would also be nice if
s/he would use white space between quoted text and replies, and if s/he
would use capitalisation...

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
July 9, 2005 5:19:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> I've enjoyed discovering things for myself in NetHack (in fact, I think
> it does that sort of thing better than any other game), but I've tried
> what I can think of, and I'm now wondering if perhaps there is no way to
> prevent them attacking. Can anyone give me an answer on this, or at
> least confirm there isn't one?
>
> Thanks
> Nathan Craike

If your pet can't get to said monster, then it can't attack it... If you want
more info, I'm sure you can be obliged.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 5:24:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In news:<damlj3$kd9$1@news3.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>, Boudewijn Waijers
<kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> says...
> Kristoffer Björkman wrote:
> > bcr666 <bcr666@gmail.com> says...
> >> I'm pretty new to NH. I have seen my pet evolve after killing things
> >> (although it seems like it is near to my XPlvl, and hasn't done as
> >> much killing as I have, so I think there is something that makes the
> >> pet grow with the owner) from a kitten/little dog to a cat/dog.
> > That is not correct, AFAIK your pet gains levels ('hit dice') by
> > killing and eating. Its advancement does not follow the same system
> > as that for a player character though.
> Not correct either. Eating won't make your pet gain levels.

You should see my pet when it goes munching on those wraith corpses. :) 

I agree with your point though, I should've checked dogmove.c better,
oops sorry. :( 

/Kristoffer

--
This cookie has a scrap of paper inside. It reads:
Fcner lbhe fpebyyf bs znxr-rqvoyr hagvy vg'f ernyyl arprffnel!
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 5:29:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford wrote:
> I really did not know that there was a required way to quote people,
> I even used to think you could put your replies on top of the text
> you want to quote, (I still have no idea why)

Because people tend to read from top to bottom and usenet is not
Jeorpardy - it just doesn't make sense to first read the answer
and then the question.


> instead of having to
> click on the bottom of the text window every time I want to reply.

I used to use sylpheed claws, too, and I can't remember ever having to
click at the bottom of the text to put the cursor there. It should be
there automatically (maybe you can configure that somewhere).


--
If geiger counter does not click,
the coffee, she is just not thick
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 5:29:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford wrote:

> [...] and as for capitalisation, (I think you meant capitalization...)

I meant "capitalisation".

I prefer British English over American English. I always go for the real
thing. :-)

> I really did not know that there was a required way to quote people,
> I even used to think you could put your replies on top of the
> text you want to quote,

Actually, there are no "requirements". However, there are more-or-less
commonly accepted standards. Note that these may even vary between
newsgroups, and between, say, e-mail and bulletin boards (do these still
exist?).

Note that netiquette form in this newsgroup is, on the average, more
strictly kept to than in a lot of other groups. This may be confusing to
newbies, but it keeps this group easy to read and nice to be part of.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
July 9, 2005 7:51:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote in news:1120828547.579969.272690
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> 2- Healing. If you have the requisite potion, spell or wand, use it on
> your pet to heal him up, so that he doesn't get killed so easily.

What wand would you expect him to use to heal a pet? Are you thinking of
wands of (extra) healing which are only in Slash'EM?
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 7:01:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford wrote:
>
> and as for capitalisation, (I think you meant capitalization...) I never use it ever since switching to
> linux. (I mean Linux) even though I used to use it all the time in DOS, most of the files I manage through
> bash (Bash?) are lowercase only. (with the exception of Makefile/MakeFile)

UseNet isn't source code. The language is usually English
in newsgroups without a two-letter national code at the
start of their name. Whatever language you should really
follow its rules to the best of your ability. If you can
type mixed case, doing single case will lead people to
treat you like a newbie very often.

> as for the space, I really did not know that there was a required way to quote people,

The standard for replies is written in RFCs and in the
old newsgroup new.announce.newusers. They are not
enforcible, so calling them "required" is a bit much.
Nonetheless UseNet has its own system.

> I even used to think you could put your replies on top of the text
> you want to quote, (I still have no idea why) instead of having to
> click on the bottom of the text window every time I want to reply.

I am with you having no idea why e-mail ever adopted this
non-UseNet-like standard of top posting. It doesn't matter,
though. UseNet messages are not an e-mail activity. UseNet
predates those PC systems that first introduced top posting.
If you look up when the first PC oriented AOL user connected
to UseNet and search the archives backwards from that point,
you will not find a single top-post from there all the way
to the oldest surviving post.

Why does any PC e-mail program put the cursor at the top? I
have no idea. It doesn't matter as UseNet is not e-mail.

The subject was stoppong pets from attacking peacefulls.

Why would you want to?

For one thing even though a pet grows in XP points with every
kill, and its XP points follow the same sort of pattern as XP
points to XP levels for characters, pets do still sometimes
attack monsters that end up killing them. This is mostly
because some monsters cause far more damage per hit than their
level indictates and those monsters make up for it by being
easy to kill for their levels. Attack enough such monsters
and one could kill you quickly. The same thing happens with
pets. Some survive a very long time, some die early on.

For another thing, some peacefull monsters tunnel out levels
and sometimes you want that to happen. Dwarves, rock moles
or umber hulks can be usefull or irritating depending on
what you intend with a level. If you want to dig out every
bit of gold and gem for yourself, rock moles tend to be
irritating. "You hear a crunching sound" isn't what you
want to here when you intended to dig out every zormid.
"Your large dog kills the rock mole. Your large dog eats
a rock mole corpse." isn't what you want if you decided that
level would be best dug out edge to edge.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 11:31:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> lmfback wrote:
>
> > Players that have played for long tend to leave their pets behind just
> > because pets are more of a nuisance once you learn how to do things
> > yourself that you otherwise let your pet do.
>
> I don't think such a generalisation is true.
>
> On the contrary, I think most long-time players have learnt how to
> manage their pets, and are quite able to do exactly that.

There are members of both schools. Read ascension posts
and you'll find some ascend with pets and some don't.
You'll find some that barely mention pets and some that
used hoards of pets.

Using pets as an early tool and then abandoning them in
the mid-game works as a strategy. Using pets on every
level works as a strategy. Using pets as a screen against
the riders works as a strategy. Calling pets to you at
the final altar works as a strategy, and so does leaving
them behind.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 12:47:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford wrote:
> Erik Piper wrote:
>
> >Capital letters make it easier to find the beginning of a new sentence,

Capitalization rather than all caps, juming ahead to Noah's
comment.

> >and furthermore the breaking of the typographical convention for the
> >language the reader is reading in means that part of the reader's
> >brainpower is going into ignoring the breaking of the convention so as
> >to go on reading. Thus the reader has a little less brainpower to think
> >about what you are trying to say. That's hurting yourself -- the whole
> >reason you are writing is in order to say, or ask, something.
>
> So it seems that I should be typing in all Capital Letters LIKE THIS...

Chuckle. All caps is a standard for SHOUTING, and it's a
standard wider than UseNet. All caps is harder to read
than all lower case. For folks who lack typing skills to
do mixed case, it is better to use all lower case than
all caps. You don't appear to lack typing skills and
that's why I prodded you to use mixed case.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 1:35:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <dalghb$c2l$1@austar-news.austar.net.au>,
NCraike+news@gmail.com says...

> One thing i can't figure though, is how to stop my pet dog or cat from
> attacking everything in sight, even dwarfs or gnomes that aren't
> hostile. I know (well, I'm guessing) that I don't get any alignment
> ...
> I've enjoyed discovering things for myself in NetHack (in fact, I think
> it does that sort of thing better than any other game), but I've tried
> what I can think of, and I'm now wondering if perhaps there is no way to
> prevent them attacking. Can anyone give me an answer on this, or at
> least confirm there isn't one?

None of the ways available work very well and I would annoy myself to
death trying to implement them throughout a game. Players that have
played for long tend to leave their pets behind just because pets are
more of a nuisance once you learn how to do things yourself that you
otherwise let your pet do. So leave your pet on level 1 and see how
well you manage on your own. At least all the decisions will be yours
(and the monsters :-).



Eskimo

--
//------------------------------
//Remove tämä all the way to and including soomee to mail directly.
//Ascended:W,V (genopolywish),P(ill ath), T,K,H,S,B,C,P,W
(naked),Ro,Ra,A,W,almost pacifist A
//In progress:p AIN
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 1:40:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

lmfback wrote:

> Players that have played for long tend to leave their pets behind just
> because pets are more of a nuisance once you learn how to do things
> yourself that you otherwise let your pet do.

I don't think such a generalisation is true.

On the contrary, I think most long-time players have learnt how to
manage their pets, and are quite able to do exactly that.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 3:17:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:03:06 +0200
Erik Piper <erikNOSPAM@sky.cz> wrote:

>Capital letters make it easier to find the beginning of a new sentence,
>and furthermore the breaking of the typographical convention for the
>language the reader is reading in means that part of the reader's
>brainpower is going into ignoring the breaking of the convention so as
>to go on reading. Thus the reader has a little less brainpower to think
>about what you are trying to say. That's hurting yourself -- the whole
>reason you are writing is in order to say, or ask, something.

So it seems that I should be typing in all Capital Letters LIKE THIS...
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 7:53:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:03:06 +0200
> Erik Piper <erikNOSPAM@sky.cz> wrote:
>
>
>>Capital letters make it easier to find the beginning of a new sentence,
>>and furthermore the breaking of the typographical convention for the
>>language the reader is reading in means that part of the reader's
>>brainpower is going into ignoring the breaking of the convention so as
>>to go on reading. Thus the reader has a little less brainpower to think
>>about what you are trying to say. That's hurting yourself -- the whole
>>reason you are writing is in order to say, or ask, something.
>
>
> So it seems that I should be typing in all Capital Letters LIKE THIS...

No. It's not the capitals, per se, that make it easier to read.
It's the contrast between the capitals and the lowercase letters. A
capital letter in a stream of lowercase letters stands out. In a stream
of all-caps or all-lowercase, nothing stands out.

All-lowercase is actually easier to read than all-caps...
lowercase letters have more variation of form than capitals, which makes
it easier to tell them apart at a glance. But lowercase with capitals
used appropriately is still easier.

--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 9:03:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 22:36:18 +0200

[Notes by Boudewijn on netiquette conventions which Noah would do well
by following]

> Sorry everybody. first it was top-posting, then incorrect dates, now the quoting characters.

I don't believe I've ever seen a more gracious response to a heads-up
about "infractions" of netiquette. My hat is off to you.

> I used to use |, but got many many many complaints after using it, and then I saw someone else using
> # (I think it was rec.games.rougelike.development) and thought, "oh cool! that looks like a nice char"
> and thought I'd switch.

Just like with programming languages, technical standards on Usenet help
to make things more convenient for everyone present; that's the
advantage of universal use of greater-than.

[...]

> and as for capitalisation, (I think you meant capitalization...)

Although British English isn't "better" than US English and neither is
the one "real thing," neither is wrong either, as long as one is
consistent, which Boudewijn certainly is.

> I never use [capitalization] ever since switching to linux.

Capital letters make it easier to find the beginning of a new sentence,
and furthermore the breaking of the typographical convention for the
language the reader is reading in means that part of the reader's
brainpower is going into ignoring the breaking of the convention so as
to go on reading. Thus the reader has a little less brainpower to think
about what you are trying to say. That's hurting yourself -- the whole
reason you are writing is in order to say, or ask, something.

[...]

> as for the space, I really did not know that there was a required way to quote people,

Although I've never seen space between paragraphs and between quoted and
original material mentioned as a part of netiquette, it's always seemed
to me to be more polite and helpful towards people reading posts than
not leaving space. It's a similar matter as with using capitalization --
it makes it easier to find the start of a new paragraph. In
high-resolution text, indentation is just as easy to read, but in an
environment where 96 DPI, monospace fonts, and small line lengths are
the norm, indentation doesn't really cut the mustard. :-)

Cheers,

Erik
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 10:07:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:53:34 GMT
John Campbell <jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com> wrote:

> No. It's not the capitals, per se, that make it easier to read.
>It's the contrast between the capitals and the lowercase letters. A
>capital letter in a stream of lowercase letters stands out. In a stream
>of all-caps or all-lowercase, nothing stands out.

So I sHoUlD bE tYpInG lIkE tHiS tO mAkE My LeTtErS sTaNd OuT, eH?
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 8:23:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 7/11/05 10:31 AM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> Using pets as an early tool and then abandoning them in
> the mid-game works as a strategy. Using pets on every
> level works as a strategy. Using pets as a screen against
> the riders works as a strategy. Calling pets to you at
> the final altar works as a strategy, and so does leaving
> them behind.

Agreed with all of the above. However, leaving pets behind on dlvl 1
(or, more efficiently, choosing pettype:none) would imo constitute a
challenge, rather than a strategy, inasmuch as in the very early game,
pets constitute an almost inarguable benefit.

--
Kevin Wayne

"Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare
their souls." --Steve Hindalong
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 11:34:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford wrote:
> John Campbell wrote:
>
> > No. It's not the capitals, per se, that make it easier to read.
> >It's the contrast between the capitals and the lowercase letters. A
> >capital letter in a stream of lowercase letters stands out. In a stream
> >of all-caps or all-lowercase, nothing stands out.
>
> So I sHoUlD bE tYpInG lIkE tHiS tO mAkE My LeTtErS sTaNd OuT, eH?

Only if you want people to think you're so dumb you need
diapers. Even with a smiley it's several times more dumb
than funny.
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 12:35:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:54:27 +0200
"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:

>noah bedford wrote:
>
>> So I sHoUlD bE tYpInG lIkE tHiS tO mAkE My LeTtErS sTaNd OuT, eH?
> ^ ^
>You made a mistake there... :-)
>
>--
>Boudewijn.
>
>--
>"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
>as my signature..." - Me

Oops. I didn't think anyone would notice. verrry perceptive there...
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 1:41:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

lmfback <peter.backgren@absolutelynos-p-a-m.ericsson.com> writes:

> death trying to implement them throughout a game. Players that have
> played for long tend to leave their pets behind just because pets are
> more of a nuisance once you learn how to do things yourself that you
> otherwise let your pet do.

I don't know what you consider 'a lonf time', but I played some
ascensions, and I am taking very good care of my pet until after
the mines. In particular for lawful characters, the pet really
helps to get the best armor out of the mines.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 1:43:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:53:34 GMT
> John Campbell <jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com> wrote:
>
>>No. It's not the capitals, per se, that make it easier to read.
>>It's the contrast between the capitals and the lowercase letters. A
>>capital letter in a stream of lowercase letters stands out. In a stream
>>of all-caps or all-lowercase, nothing stands out.
>
> So I sHoUlD bE tYpInG lIkE tHiS tO mAkE My LeTtErS sTaNd OuT, eH?

Yes, The Letters Stand Out But It Makes Your Writing Nearly Impossible To
Read!

Raisse, Killed By A Grid Bug

--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 1:44:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford <noahbedford@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:53:34 GMT
> John Campbell <jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com> wrote:
>
> > No. It's not the capitals, per se, that make it easier to read.
> >It's the contrast between the capitals and the lowercase letters. A
> >capital letter in a stream of lowercase letters stands out. In a stream
> >of all-caps or all-lowercase, nothing stands out.
>
> So I sHoUlD bE tYpInG lIkE tHiS tO mAkE My LeTtErS sTaNd OuT, eH?

Quit toying around. People just ask you to use common
capitalization where needed so they can read your posts
more easily. This means they're reading them and want to
continue to do so -- until you give them reasons not to.

[And, after all, it makes quite some difference in the
game wether you (Z)ap spell b (extra healing) towards your
pet or (z)ap wand b (magic missile), so even nethack
punishes bad capitalization..]

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 4:54:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford wrote:

> So I sHoUlD bE tYpInG lIkE tHiS tO mAkE My LeTtErS sTaNd OuT, eH?
^ ^
You made a mistake there... :-)

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 10:30:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford wrote:

> On 12 Jul 2005 07:34:15 -0700
> "Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> noah bedford wrote:
>>> John Campbell wrote:
>>>
>>>> No. It's not the capitals, per se, that make it easier to read.
>>>> It's the contrast between the capitals and the lowercase letters. A
>>>> capital letter in a stream of lowercase letters stands out. In a
>>>> stream of all-caps or all-lowercase, nothing stands out.
>>>
>>> So I sHoUlD bE tYpInG lIkE tHiS tO mAkE My LeTtErS sTaNd OuT, eH?
>>
>> Only if you want people to think you're so dumb you need
>> diapers. Even with a smiley it's several times more dumb
>> than funny.
>
> Really. so if I don't follow peoples advice, I look like a newbie, and if
> I do "people think I'm so dumb I need diapers". I just can't win. (okay,
> okay, except for the fact that use net is not just one person...)

And except for the fact that no one has suggested using anything other than
standard rules of capitalization :/ 

--
Benjamin Lewis

All what we got here is American made.
It's a little bit cheesy, but it's nicely displayed. -- FZ
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 10:46:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 12 Jul 2005 07:34:15 -0700
"Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:

>noah bedford wrote:
>> John Campbell wrote:
>>
>> > No. It's not the capitals, per se, that make it easier to read.
>> >It's the contrast between the capitals and the lowercase letters. A
>> >capital letter in a stream of lowercase letters stands out. In a stream
>> >of all-caps or all-lowercase, nothing stands out.
>>
>> So I sHoUlD bE tYpInG lIkE tHiS tO mAkE My LeTtErS sTaNd OuT, eH?
>
>Only if you want people to think you're so dumb you need
>diapers. Even with a smiley it's several times more dumb
>than funny.
>

Really. so if I don't follow peoples advice, I look like a newbie, and if I do "people think I'm so dumb I need diapers". I just can't win. (okay, okay, except for the fact that use net is not just one person...)
Anonymous
July 13, 2005 12:52:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kevin Wayne wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > Using pets as an early tool and then abandoning them in
> > the mid-game works as a strategy. Using pets on every
> > level works as a strategy. Using pets as a screen against
> > the riders works as a strategy. Calling pets to you at
> > the final altar works as a strategy, and so does leaving
> > them behind.
>
> Agreed with all of the above. However, leaving pets behind on dlvl 1
> (or, more efficiently, choosing pettype:none) would imo constitute a
> challenge, rather than a strategy, inasmuch as in the very early game,
> pets constitute an almost inarguable benefit.

Agreed. By the time I've spent plenty of time in
mine town, I don't mind getting that message that I
feel sad for a moment but the feeling passes. So my
pet got in between the watch captain, one of the
remaining watchmen, and some other fast and/or hard
hitting monster. My pet managed to bite it by taking
a bite out of the wrong monster, one less thing to
worry about at that point. There will always be
plenty of other chances to gather other pets in the
mid-game. On the way to mine town, I've generally
used my pet to loot at least a couple of shops, to
clear out a bunch of monsters in my way, you name it.

Doing a game with no pet at all from the start could
be as much a challenge as keeping the same pet from
start to end.
Anonymous
July 14, 2005 2:26:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 18:30:56 -0700, Benjamin Lewis
<bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:

>noah bedford wrote:
>
>> On 12 Jul 2005 07:34:15 -0700
>> "Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> noah bedford wrote:
>>>> John Campbell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No. It's not the capitals, per se, that make it easier to read.
>>>>> It's the contrast between the capitals and the lowercase letters. A
>>>>> capital letter in a stream of lowercase letters stands out. In a
>>>>> stream of all-caps or all-lowercase, nothing stands out.
>>>>
>>>> So I sHoUlD bE tYpInG lIkE tHiS tO mAkE My LeTtErS sTaNd OuT, eH?
>>>
>>> Only if you want people to think you're so dumb you need
>>> diapers. Even with a smiley it's several times more dumb
>>> than funny.
>>
>> Really. so if I don't follow peoples advice, I look like a newbie, and if
>> I do "people think I'm so dumb I need diapers". I just can't win. (okay,
>> okay, except for the fact that use net is not just one person...)
>
>And except for the fact that no one has suggested using anything other than
>standard rules of capitalization :/ 

DNFTEC - Do Not Feed the Energy Creature


>http://groups.google.gg/group/rec.toys.action-figures/b...


Jove
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 5:04:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:26:16 -0500
Jove <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>
>DNFTEC - Do Not Feed the Energy Creature
>
>
>>http://groups.google.gg/group/rec.toys.action-figures/b...
>
>
> Jove

Thank you!
I had no idea that this controversial thread would end in a compliment...
I don't understand being called a creature, (assuming you do mean me) but I like the idea of feeding
Off negative energy, (and energy-constant wise...) replacing it with positive.
This might make a good creature also, but since it is not widely known, I don't know.
It might be like a flaming sphere and would be a spellbook:

You see here a spellbook of energy creature
, A -a spellbook of energy creature
r A
you add "energy creature" to your repertoire.
Z a -energy creature


+---------+
| @ e x |
| j -
| |
+---------+

the energy creature calms/tames the jackal! --more--
the energy creature explodes from the negative energy!
!