Sting and Orcrist - quick question [spoilery, but only if ..

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Obviously, these are easy artifacts to get, especially for an elf (like
a ranger who starts with the requisite dagger).


My question is, are they worth it??


The reason I ask...

The spoiler states the following about both Sting and Orcrist:

"+d5 to hit and x2 damage only against orcs (all o, orc mummies, and
orc zombies)."


I realize the x2 damage only applies to orcs....But what about the +d5
to hit?? Is that vs. orcs only, or is the +d5 to hit against any
creature?? The wording in the spoiler is slighly ambiguous - the AND
could mean both bonuses only apply to orcs, or there are 2 bonuses: a
+d5 to hit in general, AND a x2 damage vs. orcs.


If both bonuses only apply to orcs, AND having an artifact in the game
slightly reduces your chance of getting another artifact, then I can't
really see naming these artifacts simply to get minor combat bonuses
and warning against one pretty easy type of creature.


That being said, if the +d5 does apply to all combat, and not just orc
combat, I feel like it is a pretty good artifact to have at level 1,
with the minor added bonus of warning and combat bonus to orcs.


Sorry so lengthy for such a simple question; just wondering if anyone
can clear this up. I would hate to waste an artifact chance on a weapon
of negligible value, but a general to-hit bonus is nothing to scoff at
at level 1.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Which I guess I should add, does anyone remember how hard orcs were in
plain old HACK?? Man, they always appeared in large groups at medium,
to low levels....and were TOUGH...


In Nethack though, they seem a bit wimpy....no special attacks,
moderate str and hps....

 

[Gherkin]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Brigand wrote:
> Obviously, these are easy artifacts to get, especially for an elf (like
> a ranger who starts with the requisite dagger).
>
>
> My question is, are they worth it??


The only other thing to consider is the fact that once you
start sacing for weapons, if you have not named Sting you may end up
getting it (and orcrist) as gifts. The next question is, how do
artifacts created by naming or generated randomly affect your chances
of getting subsequent artifacts by sacrificing? I'm sure it is in a
spoiler somewhere... Maybe somebody could enlighten us. I have often
been annoyed when sacing as a chaotic and coming up with the two
offending nameable blades.

 

[Gherkin]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

The point of my post was that the probability of getting a gift is
affected by the number of artifacts in the game, but that those named
or found affect the probability differently from those gained as gifts.
I don't know exactly in what way, but it could turn out to be worth
our while to name one or both of Sting and Orcrist so that they don't
occur as gifts. For example, if you sac and get sting, orcrist, then
say trollsbane, it is pretty tough to get any more artifacts after
that. However, if you name sting and orcrist, depending on the
particulars of the probability formula, I believe you have a better
chance of getting a couple more sac gifts. Please somebody with the
info at their fingertips let us know.

 

[Guest]

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In article <1120838723.860919.243620@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Brigand" <markashall@hotmail.com> writes:
> I believe the chance of getting an artifact is the same for the first
> three - some set probability; after that it's something like 2/(n+1),
> where n is the number of artifacts currently in the game (formula may
> be slightly off, but the gist of it is that the probability is a static
> number divided by the current number of arti's - ie, the chance of
> another diminishes the more arti's there are in the game)

That is the probability for getting an artifact by wishing. If I
recall correctly, the formula for sacrifices is something like
1 / ( mumble ) * ( n_artifacts ) * ( n_gifts )

So creating a couple of useless artifacts can put a significant dent
into your sacrifice success rate.

John Briggs

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

The subject, for those who like to see it in the post body, is:
"Sting and Orcrist - quick question [spoilery, but only if you are
really new]"


Mostly harmless...


In news:<1120826016.221834.159070@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Brigand
<markashall@hotmail.com> says...
> Obviously, these are easy artifacts to get, especially for an elf (like
> a ranger who starts with the requisite dagger).
> My question is, are they worth it??

Only in an extreme emergency situation ivolving orcs, I'd say.

> The reason I ask...
> The spoiler states the following about both Sting and Orcrist:
> "+d5 to hit and x2 damage only against orcs (all o, orc mummies, and
> orc zombies)."

It also states:
"The +HIT column specifies any bonuses when calculating to-hit, and +DAM
lists any bonuses or multiplier to damage. For some artifacts, these
adjustments only apply when hitting a specific type of monster."

> I realize the x2 damage only applies to orcs....But what about the +d5
> to hit?? Is that vs. orcs only, or is the +d5 to hit against any
> creature?? The wording in the spoiler is slighly ambiguous - the AND
> could mean both bonuses only apply to orcs, or there are 2 bonuses: a
> +d5 to hit in general, AND a x2 damage vs. orcs.

AFAIK both modifiers apply only to the special monster type.

> If both bonuses only apply to orcs, AND having an artifact in the game
> slightly reduces your chance of getting another artifact, then I can't
> really see naming these artifacts simply to get minor combat bonuses
> and warning against one pretty easy type of creature.
> That being said, if the +d5 does apply to all combat, and not just orc
> combat, I feel like it is a pretty good artifact to have at level 1,
> with the minor added bonus of warning and combat bonus to orcs.
> Sorry so lengthy for such a simple question; just wondering if anyone
> can clear this up. I would hate to waste an artifact chance on a weapon
> of negligible value, but a general to-hit bonus is nothing to scoff at
> at level 1.

Regrettably, they just seem to be good examples of the many rather
useless artifacts in Nethack. :/

/Kristoffer

--
This cookie has a scrap of paper inside. It reads:
Gurl fnl gung gur jnyyf va fubcf ner znqr bs rkgen uneq zngrevny.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Brigand <markashall@hotmail.com>:
>Which I guess I should add, does anyone remember how hard orcs were in
>plain old HACK?? Man, they always appeared in large groups at medium,
>to low levels....and were TOUGH...

Yes. Also, they always seemed to turn up immediately after I got blinded
by something.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Second Friday, Presuary.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Brigand" <markashall@hotmail.com> writes:
> I believe the chance of getting an artifact is the same for the first
> three - some set probability; after that it's something like 2/(n+1),
> where n is the number of artifacts currently in the game (formula may
> be slightly off, but the gist of it is that the probability is a static
> number divided by the current number of arti's - ie, the chance of
> another diminishes the more arti's there are in the game)

No. From art1-343.txt:

The chance that you will be given a gift depends on the number of
artifacts already created in the game and how many of them were
gifts; the chance is 1/(10+(2*artifacts*gifts)).

Since "Your first gift will always be co-aligned", this means that an
elven Priest or Ranger (not a Wizard, who gets Magicbane) who has
previously #named Sting and Orcrist _guarantees_ themself Stormbringer
as a first gift, without reducing its chance (as the 'gifts'
multiplier is 0 at that point); the only other option would be
Grimtooth, and "Orcs will never receive elven weapons, or vice versa".

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Hi! I'm Prozac the Bear!" :
: -- Prozac the Bear, "Triangle and Robert" :

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, Kristoffer Björkman wrote:

>
> The subject, for those who like to see it in the post body, is:
> "Sting and Orcrist - quick question [spoilery, but only if you are
> really new]"

> > I realize the x2 damage only applies to orcs....But what about the +d5
> > to hit?? Is that vs. orcs only, or is the +d5 to hit against any
> > creature?? The wording in the spoiler is slighly ambiguous - the AND
> > could mean both bonuses only apply to orcs, or there are 2 bonuses: a
> > +d5 to hit in general, AND a x2 damage vs. orcs.
>
> AFAIK both modifiers apply only to the special monster type.

> Regrettably, they just seem to be good examples of the many rather
> useless artifacts in Nethack. :/

I remember my early times where I kept getting killed by wandering orcs
when coming up the dungeon between levels 1 and 5. At those days, I even
used to blessed geno orc when I happen to have a blessed scroll of geno at
hand. And to #name sting when playing an elven ranger. Now, I don't do
thazt any more...

And sting also cut through web, which is a bit less useless. Oh, and in
Slash'em, I definitely thing that Sting should have some bonus versus
Shelob. Like instakill or scaring or double damage.

--
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

Adresse mail plus valide à partir de septembre 2005.
Utiliser l'adresse de redirection permanente :
Jean-Yves.Moyen `at` ens-lyon.org

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
> Brigand writes:
>
> > I believe the chance of getting an artifact is the same for the first
> > three - some set probability; after that it's something like 2/(n+1),
> > where n is the number of artifacts currently in the game (formula may
> > be slightly off, but the gist of it is that the probability is a static
> > number divided by the current number of arti's - ie, the chance of
> > another diminishes the more arti's there are in the game)
>
> No. From art1-343.txt:
>
> The chance that you will be given a gift depends on the number of
> artifacts already created in the game and how many of them were
> gifts; the chance is 1/(10+(2*artifacts*gifts)).

This formula implies that naming either or both will have no
effect on your *first* artifact gift, but it will have effect
after that that's about as if you'd already gotten them
as gifts.

> Since "Your first gift will always be co-aligned", this means that an
> elven Priest or Ranger (not a Wizard, who gets Magicbane) who has
> previously #named Sting and Orcrist _guarantees_ themself Stormbringer
> as a first gift, without reducing its chance (as the 'gifts'
> multiplier is 0 at that point); the only other option would be
> Grimtooth, and "Orcs will never receive elven weapons, or vice versa".

Interesting point for a specific set of character types.

Some stuff about them -

Both are chaotic, so a chaotic non-orc character will end up
with them after vast numbers of sacrafices. For a chaotic
character they are gifted fireproof so better wait for a
gift. On the other hand a lawfull or neutral character may
want to wait until they don't think they will ever get
another gift of their alignment then use this as a way to
get more artifacts (similar to a non-lawfull getting
Sunsword and Demonbane from A's). When I've played artifact
collector lawful Valks, I've named them very late.

Sting is a dagger class so characters that intend to go
quickly to Expert should consider it. This applies to
wizards who don't plan on collecting artifacts.

Orcrist is broadsword class so chaotics who start out able
to advance broadsword and who only plan on getting Stormy
from crowning should consider it. Character classes who
start out blocked from broadsword it won't be worth it.