Newbie questions

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I have the darnedest time playing, and am not sure I am doing things
right.

It took me a long while to figure out (read on group) that I can pray
when fainting from hunger. My first 20 characters or so died of hunger
because I either couldn't find food, or got food poisoning from eating
remains.

How can I find out what things are (scrolls of identify don't show up
very often)? I once found a ring and put it on, and found it was a
cursed ring of hunger. I have since found (read on group) that I can
get holy water, and remove the curse, but that can take some time to do
(find a potion, turn it to water, find an alter, get it made into holy
water).

I step into the Gnomish mines, and get flooded with enemies, I can
sometimes kill 10 or more, but I'll eventually run out of health/power
and can't make it to the previous level to rest.

I frequently run into big bads in the hallways, so I can't see them
until they are standing right next to me. I try to run, but they
manage to keep up, and hit me as well (*sigh*, dead again, reload).

I had some creature (a guard or something like that) the other day hit
me with a cockatrice corpse (that I had just got done killing), and
stoned me. If I try to pick up a cockatrice corpse, I get instantly
stoned. What the heck is up with that?

I've been cheating up until now, but it seems to me that it shouldn't
be this hard.

As a wizard, I run out of power too quickly. My power is now a little
over a hundred, but I'm standing in a room, and I suddenly see a mumak
at the door. He isn't in a direct line from me, so I have to move, but
it gets 2 squares closer, now it is only 3 squares away. I cast Force
Strike, He is 2 squares away. I cast Force Strike, He is 1 square
away. I cast Force Strike, he is right next to me, and I am missing
1/3 of my HP... Confuse Monster doesn't seem to do anything, except
waste my time. Once in a while I'll get lucky with sleep, but I find
that most of my spells are way too underpowered for some of the
creatures I'm going up against, or require too much power.

Am I doing something fundamentally wrong, or is the game just that
tough?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

use the old "retreat to corridor" method
how?

be fast. quaff a potion of speed, wear speed boots, zap your self with
a wand of speed...
(or you could just teleport away, but fast is easier.)
I have boots of speed and am wearing them.

you need to protect your hands from touching the cockatrices flesh with
something...
I am/was wearing gloves of dex

cheating? as in save-scumming?
I'm not sure what save-scumming is, but I copy off my save game file.
Then if I die, I can put the save game file back.

what spell is Force strike? I am not familiar with it. if you mean
force bolt,
then yes. force bolt tends to miss a lot as you go up in level, so its
good to go:
1-5>force bolt
5-10>magic missile
10-30>touch of death (or finger... I can't remember.)
I'm at XPlvl 13 Dlvl19, I've run through the gnomish mines, and the
puzzles to the treasure room. I have found these spells (Force Bolt,
Light, Magic Mapping, Detect Monsters, Cure Sickness, Healing, Cure
Blindness, Confuse Monster, Sleep, Teleport Away)
Force bolt won't kill most things before they get to me, so I have to
end up using my blessed rustproof +4 MagicBane

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005, bcr666 wrote:

> I have the darnedest time playing, and am not sure I am doing things
> right.
>
>
> How can I find out what things are (scrolls of identify don't show up
> very often)? I once found a ring and put it on, and found it was a
> cursed ring of hunger. I have since found (read on group) that I can
> get holy water, and remove the curse, but that can take some time to do
> (find a potion, turn it to water, find an alter, get it made into holy
> water).

Never put on a ring if you aren't sure if it's cursed -- there are ways to
find out or have a good guess. I don't know how spoiled you want to be.

>
> I step into the Gnomish mines, and get flooded with enemies, I can
> sometimes kill 10 or more, but I'll eventually run out of health/power
> and can't make it to the previous level to rest.

Stay in the staircase, and if you happen to not be on the staircase, kill
the enemy that you think is on it first.


>
> I had some creature (a guard or something like that) the other day hit
> me with a cockatrice corpse (that I had just got done killing), and
> stoned me. If I try to pick up a cockatrice corpse, I get instantly
> stoned. What the heck is up with that?

His hands are protected...

>
> I've been cheating up until now, but it seems to me that it shouldn't
> be this hard.

Cheating? Cheating is bad, but I'm not sure how you're cheating.

>
> As a wizard, I run out of power too quickly. My power is now a little
> over a hundred, but I'm standing in a room, and I suddenly see a mumak
> at the door. He isn't in a direct line from me, so I have to move, but
> it gets 2 squares closer, now it is only 3 squares away. I cast Force
> Strike, He is 2 squares away. I cast Force Strike, He is 1 square
> away.

Start running before this point.

>
> Am I doing something fundamentally wrong, or is the game just that
> tough?

I'm not entirely sure how you're playing between deaths.

I don't want to spoil too much, and don't really know what your limit is.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 8 Jul 2005 11:46:00 -0700
"bcr666" <bcr666@gmail.com> wrote:

#I have the darnedest time playing, and am not sure I am doing things
#right.
#
#It took me a long while to figure out (read on group) that I can pray
#when fainting from hunger. My first 20 characters or so died of hunger
#because I either couldn't find food, or got food poisoning from eating
#remains.
#
#How can I find out what things are (scrolls of identify don't show up
#very often)? I once found a ring and put it on, and found it was a
#cursed ring of hunger. I have since found (read on group) that I can
#get holy water, and remove the curse, but that can take some time to do
#(find a potion, turn it to water, find an alter, get it made into holy
#water).
yes, but after that you can dip one potion of holy water into a whole stack of regulars to get
more.
#
#I step into the Gnomish mines, and get flooded with enemies, I can
#sometimes kill 10 or more, but I'll eventually run out of health/power
#and can't make it to the previous level to rest.
use the old "retreat to corridor" method.
#I frequently run into big bads in the hallways, so I can't see them
#until they are standing right next to me. I try to run, but they
#manage to keep up, and hit me as well (*sigh*, dead again, reload).
be fast. quaff a potion of speed, wear speed boots, zap your self with a wand of speed...
(or you could just teleport away, but fast is easier.)
#I had some creature (a guard or something like that) the other day hit
#me with a cockatrice corpse (that I had just got done killing), and
#stoned me. If I try to pick up a cockatrice corpse, I get instantly
#stoned. What the heck is up with that?
you need to protect your hands from touching the cockatrices flesh with something...
#I've been cheating up until now, but it seems to me that it shouldn't
#be this hard.
cheating? as in save-scumming? explore mode? or wizard?
#As a wizard, I run out of power too quickly. My power is now a little
#over a hundred, but I'm standing in a room, and I suddenly see a mumak
#at the door. He isn't in a direct line from me, so I have to move, but
#it gets 2 squares closer, now it is only 3 squares away. I cast Force
#Strike, He is 2 squares away. I cast Force Strike, He is 1 square
#away. I cast Force Strike, he is right next to me, and I am missing
#1/3 of my HP... Confuse Monster doesn't seem to do anything, except
#waste my time. Once in a while I'll get lucky with sleep, but I find
#that most of my spells are way too underpowered for some of the
#creatures I'm going up against, or require too much power.
what spell is Force strike? I am not familiar with it. if you mean force bolt,
then yes. force bolt tends to miss a lot as you go up in level, so its good to go:
1-5>force bolt
5-10>magic missile
10-30>touch of death (or finger... I can't remember.)
#Am I doing something fundamentally wrong, or is the game just that
#tough?
both.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 8 Jul 2005 12:31:41 -0700
"bcr666" <bcr666@gmail.com> wrote:

#use the old "retreat to corridor" method
#how?
its very simple. I am sure you know that if you can get to a corridor,
only one monster will attack you. also engraving the E word in one turn
(fire, lightning, digging) can help.
#be fast. quaff a potion of speed, wear speed boots, zap your self with
#a wand of speed...
#(or you could just teleport away, but fast is easier.)
#I have boots of speed and am wearing them.
that's good, you might want to also quaff potions of speed for the time being
to max it out, and if you have a saddle, most horse-type steeds are very fast(24)
#you need to protect your hands from touching the cockatrices flesh with
#something...
#I am/was wearing gloves of dex
odd. you were also wearing speed boots, so that's not it... this must be a bug.
#cheating? as in save-scumming?
#I'm not sure what save-scumming is, but I copy off my save game file.
#Then if I die, I can put the save game file back.
that's save-scumming all right. mostly frowned apon around here, so if you need
practice, its best to just go eXplore mode.
#what spell is Force strike? I am not familiar with it. if you mean
#force bolt,
#then yes. force bolt tends to miss a lot as you go up in level, so its
#good to go:
#1-5>force bolt
#5-10>magic missile
#10-30>touch of death (or finger... I can't remember.)
#I'm at XPlvl 13 Dlvl19, I've run through the gnomish mines, and the
#puzzles to the treasure room. I have found these spells (Force Bolt,
#Light, Magic Mapping, Detect Monsters, Cure Sickness, Healing, Cure
#Blindness, Confuse Monster, Sleep, Teleport Away)
#Force bolt won't kill most things before they get to me, so I have to
#end up using my blessed rustproof +4 MagicBane
#
hmmmmm.... by the puzzles, I assume you mean sokoban. I also assume you sac'ed to get
magicbane. my advice to you would be to go to minetown/mall bookstores, and once you have
cleared them out, try sac'ing for spellbooks.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 22:01:40 +0200
"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:

#noah bedford wrote:
#
#> yes, but after that you can dip one potion of holy water into a whole
#> stack of regulars to get more.
#
#The other way around, actually.
#
#--
#Boudewijn.
#
#"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
# - Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad.
#
ohhh.... sorry. I always assume dipping is interchangable.
btw, I like your sig.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford wrote:

> yes, but after that you can dip one potion of holy water into a whole
> stack of regulars to get more.

The other way around, actually.

--
Boudewijn.

"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
- Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

bcr666 wrote:

> How can I find out what things are (scrolls of identify don't show up
> very often)? I once found a ring and put it on, and found it was a
> cursed ring of hunger. I have since found (read on group) that I can
> get holy water, and remove the curse, but that can take some time to
> do (find a potion, turn it to water, find an alter, get it made into
> holy water).

You can find out whether items are cursed, blessed or neither by
dropping them on an altar. Non-cursed items can be worn safely, but
their effects still won't always be immediately clear.

Try selling unknown scrolls by dropping them in a general or book shop.
The cheapest one is identify (only around 10 zm or so).

> I step into the Gnomish mines, and get flooded with enemies, I can
> sometimes kill 10 or more, but I'll eventually run out of health/power
> and can't make it to the previous level to rest.

Make sure you encounter them in a bottleneck, so only one can attack you
at the same time. Alternatively, remain on the upstairs, so you may
retreat when (or preferrably before) things get close, and return later,
when you have healed.

> I frequently run into big bads in the hallways, so I can't see them
> until they are standing right next to me. I try to run, but they
> manage to keep up, and hit me as well (*sigh*, dead again, reload).

Strange. Most monsters, especially the large ones, should be slower than
you. This is, of course, assuming you're not encumbered. NEVER BE
BURDENED!

> I had some creature (a guard or something like that) the other day hit
> me with a cockatrice corpse (that I had just got done killing), and
> stoned me. If I try to pick up a cockatrice corpse, I get instantly
> stoned. What the heck is up with that?

He has protected hands. You could manage the same, but the corpse will
still pose a risk, even with protected hands.

> I've been cheating up until now, but it seems to me that it shouldn't
> be this hard.

By cheating, the game will *stay* hard. It is communis opinio here that
when you are cheating, your learning curve goes down steeply. Since
there's no longer a penalty on stupidness, you'll never learn. When you
have to start all over again every time you die, you'll soon learn to
play more carefully.

> As a wizard, I run out of power too quickly.

When you run out of power, retreat to a safe place and wait until the
power is back on. Wizards regenerate power much faster than other
classes, so I think you shouldn't complain to start with...

> My power is now a little
> over a hundred, but I'm standing in a room, and I suddenly see a mumak
> at the door. He isn't in a direct line from me, so I have to move,
> but it gets 2 squares closer, now it is only 3 squares away. I cast
> Force Strike, He is 2 squares away. I cast Force Strike, He is 1
> square away. I cast Force Strike, he is right next to me, and I am
> missing 1/3 of my HP... Confuse Monster doesn't seem to do anything,
> except waste my time. Once in a while I'll get lucky with sleep, but
> I find that most of my spells are way too underpowered for some of the
> creatures I'm going up against, or require too much power.

A mumak is slower than you, so running away should be easy. If you
notice that mumakil are killing your characters over and over again,
perhaps the obvious conclusion should be that these are simply too
strong for your character, so far.

"Doctor, I always die when I attack a mumak..."
"Don't do that, then!"

> Am I doing something fundamentally wrong, or is the game just that
> tough?

The game *is* tough. I have stated over and over again that the most
important thing you need in NetHack is have patience, and don't be shy
when it comes to running away. No-one will see you do it (unless you're
playing on a public server, that is).

--
Boudewijn.

"Would those who believe in telekinesis please raise my hand?"
- Maarten Pieters, in NRC Handelsblad.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"bcr666" <bcr666@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120848360.868530.71860@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I have the darnedest time playing, and am not sure I am doing things
> right.
>
> It took me a long while to figure out (read on group) that I can pray
> when fainting from hunger. My first 20 characters or so died of hunger
> because I either couldn't find food, or got food poisoning from eating
> remains.

Keep you pet close - What ever it eats, you can eat.
>
> How can I find out what things are (scrolls of identify don't show up
> very often)? I once found a ring and put it on, and found it was a
> cursed ring of hunger. I have since found (read on group) that I can
> get holy water, and remove the curse, but that can take some time to do
> (find a potion, turn it to water, find an alter, get it made into holy
> water).

Basically you shouldn't use anything without first finding out if it is
cursed.
(this can be tough if there isn't an altar nearby, but again your pet can
help!)

> I step into the Gnomish mines, and get flooded with enemies, I can
> sometimes kill 10 or more, but I'll eventually run out of health/power
> and can't make it to the previous level to rest.

You need to rest more. Either retreat or find a bottleneck you can defend
against 1 or 2 opponents.

> I frequently run into big bads in the hallways, so I can't see them
> until they are standing right next to me. I try to run, but they
> manage to keep up, and hit me as well (*sigh*, dead again, reload).
>
> I had some creature (a guard or something like that) the other day hit
> me with a cockatrice corpse (that I had just got done killing), and
> stoned me. If I try to pick up a cockatrice corpse, I get instantly
> stoned. What the heck is up with that?

Never seen that. You can do that if your hands are covered,
and you can kick if you aren't in bare feet.

> I've been cheating up until now, but it seems to me that it shouldn't
> be this hard.

I have never really understood this savescum hatred. I used to do it
with low level characters and learned alot. I think it helps newbies,
but almost everyone else hates it. (Once you learn the game, you
really don't need it anymore.)

> As a wizard, I run out of power too quickly. My power is now a little
> over a hundred, but I'm standing in a room, and I suddenly see a mumak
> at the door. He isn't in a direct line from me, so I have to move, but
> it gets 2 squares closer, now it is only 3 squares away. I cast Force
> Strike, He is 2 squares away. I cast Force Strike, He is 1 square
> away. I cast Force Strike, he is right next to me, and I am missing
> 1/3 of my HP... Confuse Monster doesn't seem to do anything, except
> waste my time. Once in a while I'll get lucky with sleep, but I find
> that most of my spells are way too underpowered for some of the
> creatures I'm going up against, or require too much power.

Again, you need more rest. I believe once you cast confuse monster you
then have to hit the thing with your weapon! (unless Wiz spell is different
from scroll version)
(Why are you playing a Wizard ? I find this one of the harder classes.
Try a warrior class.)

> Am I doing something fundamentally wrong, or is the game just that
> tough?

The game is really tough! You can play FOR YEARS and never win.
I've played off and on for about 7 or 8 years and I still run into things
I haven't seen before and have never ascended a game. If you want
spoilers, try http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/#dylan .

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> I step into the Gnomish mines, and get flooded with enemies, I can
> sometimes kill 10 or more, but I'll eventually run out of health/power
> and can't make it to the previous level to rest.

Try only going down a level when your level number is odd i.e. 2nd level when
you're 3rd level 3rd level when you're 5th ... You also will find that armor
does help you early on esp. when you have low spell points. Fighting should
be the first thing you get better at. If you find yourself in an empty level
with nothing you can do try searching every 3rd part of the wall, this will
make you better, and can get you money later on. Also, AS SOON as you see a
monster, check out what it is and where you want to be when it attacks (if
indeed anywhere near...)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

K.V.C wrote:

> Keep you pet close - What ever it eats, you can eat.

Almost. Bats, for example, are an exception. You pet likes them, but
they'll stun you for a while (they make you "batty").

But in (almost?) all other cases, this is a good rule of thumb.

Note that corpses that you would normally be able to eat without
problem, will still give you food poisoning if they are old. Eat corpses
immediately after you killed them or you've seen them killed. If you
don't know how long ago a corpse was created, never eat it.

> Again, you need more rest. I believe once you cast confuse monster
> you then have to hit the thing with your weapon! (unless Wiz spell is
> different from scroll version)

It is different indeed. You just need to cast the spell at a monster,
but note that, just like with a bow, you still shouldn't "miss" your
to-hit roll. Consider the monster a target that your spell has to hit
before it takes effect.

> (Why are you playing a Wizard ? I find this one of the harder
> classes. Try a warrior class.)

Good advice. For beginners, especially, a class like the valkyrie or
samurai is much easier. You can just play hack and slash, and you'll
have less trouble defending yourself as well, since your HP will be
higher and your AC lower.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

K.V.C wrote:

> Keep you pet close - What ever it eats, you can eat.

Only don't eat cats or dogs unless you're a cave(wo)man, and don't eat
your own species, and it's not really wise to eat bats.

Raisse, killed by a kitten

--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 7/8/05 4:13 PM, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> The game *is* tough. I have stated over and over again that the most
> important thing you need in NetHack is have patience, and don't be shy
> when it comes to running away. No-one will see you do it (unless you're
> playing on a public server, that is).

And on a public server, they also see you die.

--
Kevin Wayne

"Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare
their souls." --Steve Hindalong

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting bcr666 <bcr666@gmail.com>:
>>cheating? as in save-scumming?
>I'm not sure what save-scumming is, but I copy off my save game file.
>Then if I die, I can put the save game file back.

That is why you do not improve your standsrd of play.

Note also that wizards are very difficult. As a novice player, Valkyries
are most amenable to a direct approach to situations.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Gloucesterday, Presuary.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

> Quoting bcr666 <bcr666@gmail.com>:
> >>cheating? as in save-scumming?
> >I'm not sure what save-scumming is, but I copy off my save game file.
> >Then if I die, I can put the save game file back.
>
> That is why you do not improve your standsrd of play.

Not to contradict this (which i can't judge anyway),
but used cautiously, save-scumming might actually help,
since -- if saved in a critical situation -- you
can 'replay' exactly the same critical situation
and study the effect of different tacticals. Again,
the question is not whether one uses it, but how.

> Note also that wizards are very difficult.

IBTD. I tend to think of them as one of the easiest
classes. Admittedly, they are not too straightforward
to play, more running backwards at start..

Best,
Jakob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Jakob Creutzig <creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>:
>David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
>>Quoting bcr666 <bcr666@gmail.com>:
>>>I'm not sure what save-scumming is, but I copy off my save game file.
>>>Then if I die, I can put the save game file back.
>>That is why you do not improve your standsrd of play.
>Not to contradict this (which i can't judge anyway),
>but used cautiously, save-scumming might actually help,

I've heard a lot of theoretical assessments (including yours here) as to
how save-scumming might help; but practically, I observe it doesn't seem
to.

>>Note also that wizards are very difficult.
>IBTD. I tend to think of them as one of the easiest classes.

I don't mean for an experienced player, but for a novice.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Gloucesterday, Presuary.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

> Quoting Jakob Creutzig <creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>:
> >David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
> >>Quoting bcr666 <bcr666@gmail.com>:
> >>>I'm not sure what save-scumming is, but I copy off my save game file.
> >>>Then if I die, I can put the save game file back.
> >>That is why you do not improve your standsrd of play.
> >Not to contradict this (which i can't judge anyway),
> >but used cautiously, save-scumming might actually help,
>
> I've heard a lot of theoretical assessments (including yours here) as to
> how save-scumming might help; but practically, I observe it doesn't seem
> to.

I suppose this is because wizmode is much easier and more
convenient to use for such questions ;-).

Best,
Jakob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> Quoting bcr666 <bcr666@gmail.com>:
> >>cheating? as in save-scumming?
> >I'm not sure what save-scumming is, but I copy off my save game file.
> >Then if I die, I can put the save game file back.
>
> That is why you do not improve your standsrd of play.

From experience, I can testify to this. I only became a better player
after I stopped save-scumming.

> Note also that wizards are very difficult. As a novice player, Valkyries
> are most amenable to a direct approach to situations.

That's badly punctuated. I'd write it like this:

# Note also that wizards are very difficult, as a novice player.
# Valkyries are most amenable to a direct approach to situations.

For a non-novice, wizards aren't all that difficult. I don't consider
myself to be a good player, but wizards are the only non-fighter class
I've ascended.

Richard

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Richard Bos wrote:
> David Damerell wrote:
>> Note also that wizards are very difficult. As a novice player,
>> Valkyries are most amenable to a direct approach to situations.
>
> For a non-novice, wizards aren't all that difficult. I don't consider
> myself to be a good player, but wizards are the only non-fighter
> class I've ascended.

Wizard is the ONLY class I've ascended, and that only a week or two ago,
and I've been playing for years. I've also tried rogues, valkyries, and
barbarians, and I must admit that my valkyries made it farther than any
of the others (two killed in Gehennom, one at the castle).

--
Everett E. Johnson
"Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time."