City Improvements by Magic

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Another post mentioned that continual light could be used for streetlights
and stuff, and it got me to wondering: If you have the capital of a
magocracy(ie plenty of wizards around to handle such things), what kinds of
permanent spell features do you think would find widespread or even limited
use, in terms of infrastructure upgrades, passive city defenses, things that
make life that little bit more bearable in the long run?

How about for a theocracy(plenty of clerics around)?

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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Jeff Goslin wrote:
> Another post mentioned that continual light could be used for
streetlights
> and stuff, and it got me to wondering: If you have the capital of a
> magocracy(ie plenty of wizards around to handle such things), what
kinds of
> permanent spell features do you think would find widespread or even
limited
> use, in terms of infrastructure upgrades, passive city defenses,
things that
> make life that little bit more bearable in the long run?
>
> How about for a theocracy(plenty of clerics around)?

If you're talking really high magic there's always the excelent idea of
having permanant walls (stone or iron spring to mind) as a city wall,
possibly with a wall of force on the inside.

And a series of ring gates make transportation not only easy for the
citizens, but can ensure tight security in and out of important palces
(ie you must have a special badge to use out gate).

Butg mostly I'd say lots of low level utility. I would also throw in
lots of permanant prestidigitation (glamors). for example, changing
eye color, hair color, etc (think realy fast salons). And plenty of
useless magic items (for example shoes that always smell nice, clothes
that command word clean themselves, etc). Small magic items (a
waterbag with a minor create water spell in it so it never empties if
something that many people would invest in even IRL).

Anyway, none of that is to my taste, but it's all perfectly reasonable
if you're using that sort of world.

 

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Jeff Goslin wrote:
> Another post mentioned that continual light could be used for
> streetlights and stuff, and it got me to wondering: If you have the
> capital of a magocracy(ie plenty of wizards around to handle such
> things), what kinds of permanent spell features do you think would
> find widespread or even limited use, in terms of infrastructure
> upgrades, passive city defenses, things that make life that little
> bit more bearable in the long run?
>
> How about for a theocracy(plenty of clerics around)?

Take a look at Eberron sometime - it's a 'wide magic' campaign setting, with
low-level magic used in everyday life throughout society. There's loads of
this stuff there. Create Water and Purify Food and Drink help to ensure
hygeinic conditions for anyone who can afford them (along with the
ever-handy Prestidigitation for all your dry-cleaning needs, of course),
travelers can hire Leomund's Secure Shelters for the night, and if you
really, truly want the breakfast of champions, you and your friends can chip
in for a Heroes' Feast to start the day off on the right foot.

--
Mark.

 

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In article <DfCdnUl7Ae8_KanfRVn-1A@comcast.com>,
Jeff Goslin <autockr@comcast.net> wrote:
>Another post mentioned that continual light could be used for streetlights
>and stuff, and it got me to wondering: If you have the capital of a
>magocracy(ie plenty of wizards around to handle such things), what kinds of
>permanent spell features do you think would find widespread or even limited
>use, in terms of infrastructure upgrades, passive city defenses, things that
>make life that little bit more bearable in the long run?
>
>How about for a theocracy(plenty of clerics around)?

I recall reading a Stanislaw Lem story (The Futurological Congress?)
where the protagonist lived in a really nice city. Then he started
taking a series of drugs that countered the drugs he was on and
saw the city as it really was (a massive slum).

s/drugs/magic/g;

:->
--
Michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NPC rights activist | Nameless Abominations are people too.

 

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Jeff Goslin wrote:
> Another post mentioned that continual light could be used for
streetlights
> and stuff, and it got me to wondering: If you have the capital of a
> magocracy(ie plenty of wizards around to handle such things), what
kinds of
> permanent spell features do you think would find widespread or even
limited
> use, in terms of infrastructure upgrades, passive city defenses,
things that
> make life that little bit more bearable in the long run?

Well you have the builder's guild, everything made from (walls of)
stone, so everyone has spacious defenseable multi-storyhouses, doesn't
even cost anything to make hundreds of house shells a year for each
spell caster that can cast this.

You can just go through the spell lists and find tons of things that
can be applied to everything. You can have a perminantly clean and
clutter-free city with areas of unseen servants and prestidigitations
perminantly around. with just unseen servants you can eliminate the
need for most of the labor base, and free up the population for other
things similar to modern day cities.

- justisaur

 

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Magic, at least as used in role-playing games, is just
technology by another name. So anything you could do
with technology -- past, present, or future -- you could
also introduce a spell to do. Matching spells up with
their technological equivalents might provide a useful
way to determine costs appropriate to new spells that
you wish to invent.

Now consider the unintended and unwanted side effects
that technology has had on humans and the environment.
Widespread use of magic might have similar consequences,
especially for powerful spells such as weather control.
These might be used to make a game more interesting.

Magic appears to produce some sort of emanations that
can be detected, e.g. by Detect Magic, just as technology
generates electromagnetic fields, thermal radiation, and
so on. A city where magic is used extensively might produce
enough stray magical radiation to attract unwanted attention
from monsters, gods, etc. That could lead to an interesting
adventure.

--- Brian

 

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"Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net> writes:

> Another post mentioned that continual light could be used for
> streetlights and stuff, and it got me to wondering: If you have the
> capital of a magocracy(ie plenty of wizards around to handle such
> things), what kinds of permanent spell features do you think would
> find widespread or even limited use, in terms of infrastructure
> upgrades, passive city defenses, things that make life that little
> bit more bearable in the long run?

It could be normal for merchants to rent a ring of daily detect lie
before making a large economic deal. Similary a married couple could
rent a ring of ESP to sort out minor details. I don't know the
numbers, but I think that in a magocracy the price of renting a
magical ring should be lower than described in the DM-guide. Assume
that a ring pay itself of in 10 years and that it is rented out at
least three times a week. In some cases customers have to book a ring
in advance.

The good city might rule that evil alignment is not allowed inside
city walls. Therefore you need some kind of passport to enter. Each
day all the people who want a city passport are piled together in a
small room and examined magically. Any evil or chaotic creatures will
be magically marked and kindly told to leave. Some of these creatures
could live in slums outside the city and pose a social
problem. Similarly the city could have a corps of guards that
performed daily detect evil spells at a random places in the city.

A city wall is not a good defence against a flying army, so the
capital of a magocracy would probably want some device that made it
impossible to fly over the city walls. I don't know how this should be
done.

 

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In article <87r7iinyrr.fsf@ruc.dk>, Niels L. Ellegaard <gnalle@ruc.dk> wrote:
>
>A city wall is not a good defence against a flying army, so the
>capital of a magocracy would probably want some device that made it
>impossible to fly over the city walls. I don't know how this should be
>done.

Wish spells, one ring of three wishes a year (97,950 gp) (c|w)ould be a
reasonable rent from the Unseen University.

The exact wording of the wish would have to be kept a closely
guarded secret to prevent post hoc wish twisting (I wish that "No man can
kill the Witch King" ). For extra colour the layers of wishes could
interact in strange ways, and it can be taken as read that some
mad monarchs would claim the wishes for his own glory :->



--
Michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NPC rights activist | Nameless Abominations are people too.

 

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Mr. M.J. Lush wrote:
> In article <87r7iinyrr.fsf@ruc.dk>, Niels L. Ellegaard
<gnalle@ruc.dk> wrote:
> >
> >A city wall is not a good defence against a flying army, so the
> >capital of a magocracy would probably want some device that made it
> >impossible to fly over the city walls. I don't know how this should
be
> >done.
>
> Wish spells, one ring of three wishes a year (97,950 gp) (c|w)ould
be a
> reasonable rent from the Unseen University.

I don't think you'd be able to "rent" a charge from a charged
item - it isn't like they'll get the charge back when you're
done.

> The exact wording of the wish would have to be kept a closely
> guarded secret to prevent post hoc wish twisting (I wish that "No man
can
> kill the Witch King" ).

Good luck, given all the magical divinations available.

> For extra colour the layers of wishes could
> interact in strange ways, and it can be taken as read that some
> mad monarchs would claim the wishes for his own glory :->

Think about a city that's been around, in one form or
another, for four hundred years. Let's say the city
government ponies up to buy a Wish for the city once a
year or so. Even if some of those wishes are used to
counteract earlier wishes, you still might have two or
three *hundred* wishes active in such a city at one time.
Some may be set to deal with things that never happened,
or at least haven't happened yet, some might have been
wished to deal with problems no-one's thought of in
a hundred years and thus seem just plain goofy now,
if anyone even notices them. With all that mystical
interference going on, no wonder Wizards like to perform
their magical research in isolated towers!

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

 

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On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:27:20 +0100, gnalle@ruc.dk (Niels L. Ellegaard)
wrote:


>
>A city wall is not a good defence against a flying army, so the
>capital of a magocracy would probably want some device that made it
>impossible to fly over the city walls. I don't know how this should be
>done.

Assuming that weather control magic is available, it isn't that
difficult to foil a flying army, unless it's a flying invisible army,
although the people outside your walls might not appreciate those gale
force winds. Not that, even in a highly magical environment, it is
all that likely that you will run into large exclusively aerial
forces. While having anti-aircraft mages, archers even siege machines
and your own air force is going to be called for, in the end it is
going to be a lot easier to field boots on the ground in numbers far
outmatching the number of wings in the air. And that means that
invading a city solely with your aerial component invites defeat in
detail, provided that you can't gain the advantage of surprise.

No, the real threat to walled cities is not from the air. It is under
your feet. With so many tunnelling species as is typical in D&D
worlds, it's way too easy to undermine or bypass walls.

 

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In article <1110814924.034863.112050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
<firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Mr. M.J. Lush wrote:
>> In article <87r7iinyrr.fsf@ruc.dk>, Niels L. Ellegaard
><gnalle@ruc.dk> wrote:
>> >
>> >A city wall is not a good defence against a flying army, so the
>> >capital of a magocracy would probably want some device that made it
>> >impossible to fly over the city walls. I don't know how this should
>be
>> >done.
>>
>> Wish spells, one ring of three wishes a year (97,950 gp) (c|w)ould
>be a
>> reasonable rent from the Unseen University.
>
>I don't think you'd be able to "rent" a charge from a charged
>item - it isn't like they'll get the charge back when you're
>done.
>
>> The exact wording of the wish would have to be kept a closely
>> guarded secret to prevent post hoc wish twisting (I wish that "No man
>can
>> kill the Witch King" ).
>
>Good luck, given all the magical divinations available.
>
>> For extra colour the layers of wishes could
>> interact in strange ways, and it can be taken as read that some
>> mad monarchs would claim the wishes for his own glory :->
>
>Think about a city that's been around, in one form or
>another, for four hundred years. Let's say the city
>government ponies up to buy a Wish for the city once a
>year or so. Even if some of those wishes are used to
>counteract earlier wishes, you still might have two or
>three *hundred* wishes active in such a city at one time.
>Some may be set to deal with things that never happened,
>or at least haven't happened yet, some might have been
>wished to deal with problems no-one's thought of in
>a hundred years and thus seem just plain goofy now,
>if anyone even notices them. With all that mystical
>interference going on, no wonder Wizards like to perform
>their magical research in isolated towers!
>
>Walt Smith
>Firelock on DALNet
>


--
Michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NPC rights activist | Nameless Abominations are people too.

 

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In article <1110814924.034863.112050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
<firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Mr. M.J. Lush wrote:
>> In article <87r7iinyrr.fsf@ruc.dk>, Niels L. Ellegaard
><gnalle@ruc.dk> wrote:
>> >
>> >A city wall is not a good defence against a flying army, so the
>> >capital of a magocracy would probably want some device that made it
>> >impossible to fly over the city walls. I don't know how this should
>be
>> >done.
>>
>> Wish spells, one ring of three wishes a year (97,950 gp) (c|w)ould
>be a
>> reasonable rent from the Unseen University.
>
>I don't think you'd be able to "rent" a charge from a charged
>item - it isn't like they'll get the charge back when you're
>done.

Just as likely as my landlord giving the last months rent back to me ;-)

>> The exact wording of the wish would have to be kept a closely
>> guarded secret to prevent post hoc wish twisting (I wish that "No man
>can
>> kill the Witch King" ).
>
>Good luck, given all the magical divinations available.

And the city has hundreds of wishes to burn...

I could imagine them setting us a Wishing Chamber protected by
a dozen interwoven wishes each worded so as t both protect the
chamber and the nature of the other wishes. On top of that
the chamber could be enchanted so one can only remember what
happened in the chamber while in the chamber (so even thoes who
cast the wishes don't know what the wording was unless they return
to the chamber).... hmmm good location for a murder mystery
since the murderer and the victims spirit have left the chamber
neither know who did it and there is no way the PC's will be
allowed access to the chamber to conduct their investigations...

>> For extra colour the layers of wishes could
>> interact in strange ways, and it can be taken as read that some
>> mad monarchs would claim the wishes for his own glory :->
>
>Think about a city that's been around, in one form or
>another, for four hundred years. Let's say the city
>government ponies up to buy a Wish for the city once a
>year or so. Even if some of those wishes are used to
>counteract earlier wishes, you still might have two or
>three *hundred* wishes active in such a city at one time.
>Some may be set to deal with things that never happened,
>or at least haven't happened yet, some might have been
>wished to deal with problems no-one's thought of in
>a hundred years and thus seem just plain goofy now,
>if anyone even notices them. With all that mystical
>interference going on, no wonder Wizards like to perform
>their magical research in isolated towers!

I really like that image it convays the fantasic nature
of a high magic city much better than contiunal streetlighting
and tame Oozes and slime streetcleaners


--
Michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NPC rights activist | Nameless Abominations are people too.

 

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Mr. M.J. Lush wrote:
>

Regarding a City of Wishes:

> I really like that image it convays the fantasic nature
> of a high magic city much better than contiunal streetlighting
> and tame Oozes and slime streetcleaners

I like where this idea has been going.
Of course my players will hate it.
It also makes a great excuse for how a city like Manifest might exist
in a world with a different cosmology than Ghostwalk provides.
I've been looking for that!
Hm, a combo of Sharn and Manifest...

 

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and you could have toilets with a miniaturised otyugh in the U bend to
eat all the poo.

and a really, really complicated version of semaphore using a series of
trained stone ropers on the top of towers waving six flags at once...

,, in fact, by using zillions of awaken and perm charms/polymorphs one
could create a city which worked like "Bedrock" in the Flintstones...

"Watch out you dont step in the way of the Tarrasque street cleaner
van"
Tarrasque "Durrrrrr, but at least its a job"

 

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Murf wrote:
> and you could have toilets with a miniaturised otyugh in the U bend to
> eat all the poo.
>
> and a really, really complicated version of semaphore using a series of
> trained stone ropers on the top of towers waving six flags at once...
>
> ,, in fact, by using zillions of awaken and perm charms/polymorphs one
> could create a city which worked like "Bedrock" in the Flintstones...
>
> "Watch out you dont step in the way of the Tarrasque street cleaner
> van"
> Tarrasque "Durrrrrr, but at least its a job"

Despite the intended silliness, these border on good ideas!
I really like the city of animals doing the tasks of
modern conveniences. Now to figure out where to put it...

 

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cut to child walking past with x3 gas spore's on strings, painted in
bright colours

"boing - you should have seen my last job"

 

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<justisaur@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110828308.586630.236760@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jeff Goslin wrote:
>> Another post mentioned that continual light could be used for
> streetlights
>> and stuff, and it got me to wondering: If you have the capital of a
>> magocracy(ie plenty of wizards around to handle such things), what
> kinds of
>> permanent spell features do you think would find widespread or even
> limited
>> use, in terms of infrastructure upgrades, passive city defenses,
> things that
>> make life that little bit more bearable in the long run?
>
> Well you have the builder's guild, everything made from (walls of)
> stone, so everyone has spacious defenseable multi-storyhouses, doesn't
> even cost anything to make hundreds of house shells a year for each
> spell caster that can cast this.

That was one of my beefs with the old Stronghold Builder's Guidebook: the
cost reduction for the ability to cast Wall of Stone should have been
bigger.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

 

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"Murf" <rob_murfin@hotmail.com> writes:

>,, in fact, by using zillions of awaken and perm charms/polymorphs one
>could create a city which worked like "Bedrock" in the Flintstones...

>"Watch out you dont step in the way of the Tarrasque street cleaner
>van"
>Tarrasque "Durrrrrr, but at least its a job"


Cut to gelatinous cube oozing past "No cart parking on Thursdays" sign:
"RAAAWWWK, it's a living".

--
Chimes peal joy. Bah. Joseph Michael Bay
Icy colon barge Cancer Biology
Frosty divine Saturn Stanford University
www.stanford.edu/~jmbay/ got my mojo properly adjusted

 

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"Joseph Michael Bay" <jmbay@Stanford.EDU> wrote in message
news:d16h9o$6oe$1@news.Stanford.EDU...
> Cut to gelatinous cube oozing past "No cart parking on Thursdays" sign:
> "RAAAWWWK, it's a living".

Hehe, that's one way to ensure that the streets are clear for the cleaners,
if you park in the street that night, well, you're going cart shopping
tomorrow!

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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<brian.b.mcguinness@lmco.com> wrote in message
news:1110829463.982139.320760@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Magic, at least as used in role-playing games, is just
> technology by another name. So anything you could do
> with technology -- past, present, or future -- you could
> also introduce a spell to do. Matching spells up with
> their technological equivalents might provide a useful
> way to determine costs appropriate to new spells that
> you wish to invent.
>
> Now consider the unintended and unwanted side effects
> that technology has had on humans and the environment.
> Widespread use of magic might have similar consequences,
> especially for powerful spells such as weather control.
> These might be used to make a game more interesting.
>
> Magic appears to produce some sort of emanations that
> can be detected, e.g. by Detect Magic, just as technology
> generates electromagnetic fields, thermal radiation, and
> so on. A city where magic is used extensively might produce
> enough stray magical radiation to attract unwanted attention
> from monsters, gods, etc. That could lead to an interesting
> adventure.
>
> --- Brian

Not to mention the spontaneous creatures that might come to being with all
the left over magical energy.

For instance,

Magic Born Shadow.

This creature is a being of pure magic, dark and distrustful of all living
things the MBS had a greedy lust for the magical essence of items.

Maybe MBS eat the magic off items and eventually enough of these random
creatures could leave an interesting after-effect.

 

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I still think that the city defence coul d be provided by a mechanism

I.e.
big red button "press for emergency (100gp fine for improper use)"

This sets of f a magic mouth, which in turn sets of a series of magic
mouths round the city wall. The magic mouths then activate dozens of
"staves of the Badgermancer" - these cast 100's of spells - extendended
and 24 hour duration summon monster 1 (celestial badger)

1000's of badgers then fall from the city walls - in the background the
magic mouths are shouting "badgers! defend the city"

THEN, when all is lost, out of the sun, over a hill come the horsemen -
well the Gas-spore paladins of the west. "Mmmmnaarrr!" they cry

a CGI spectactular !!!!

 

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On 17 Mar 2005 10:37:17 -0800, "Murf" <rob_murfin@hotmail.com> raised
a finger to the sky and proclaimed:

>I still think that the city defence coul d be provided by a mechanism
>
>I.e.
>big red button "press for emergency (100gp fine for improper use)"
>
>This sets of f a magic mouth, which in turn sets of a series of magic
>mouths round the city wall. The magic mouths then activate dozens of
>"staves of the Badgermancer" - these cast 100's of spells - extendended
>and 24 hour duration summon monster 1 (celestial badger)
>
>1000's of badgers then fall from the city walls - in the background the
>magic mouths are shouting "badgers! defend the city"
>
>THEN, when all is lost, out of the sun, over a hill come the horsemen -
>well the Gas-spore paladins of the west. "Mmmmnaarrr!" they cry
>
>a CGI spectactular !!!!

You know what would really beef up those badgers? A Sto-Roper bard to
lead them all into battle.

--
Either way, I hate you Count Chocula, if I didn't already.
- Drifter Bob, rec.games.frp.dnd

 

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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:18:25 -0000, Mark Blunden
<m.blundenATntlworld.com@address.invalid> wrote:

> Take a look at Eberron sometime - it's a 'wide magic' campaign setting,

Wide Magic? They've changed what they're calling high magic now? Why not,
I guess...

--
In an old 1E campaign I played in, there was this half-dwarf, half-orc
character. They called him a dorc. -Solomoriah

 

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On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 19:00:19 -0800, Varl <bsmith@premier1.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:18:25 -0000, Mark Blunden
><m.blundenATntlworld.com@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Take a look at Eberron sometime - it's a 'wide magic' campaign setting,
>
>Wide Magic? They've changed what they're calling high magic now? Why not,
>I guess...

It's a reasonable term for a useful concept, although I don't know if
it fits Eberron.

ISTM that 'wide magic' would be something like the old 2nd ed.
Runequest game, where *everyone* knew a spell or two (including all
children over 6 years old, in some campaigns) but where the top-level
magic wasn't all that powerful.

'High magic' would be the sort of old-school D&D game where there were
lots of high-level spellcasters, especially in relation to the number
of low-level casters, but also lots of people without any magic.

'Big magic' might be a good term for a setting where magic is both
'wide' and 'high' - high-powered spell-users are common, and
low-powered ones are *really* common.

'Low magic' IMO should be used to described only those games where
magic is both weak and rare, and not the ones where "magic is weak and
rare except for the DM's pet NPC Elmunchkin-equivalents." That would
be (an abusive-GM form of) 'rare magic' rather than 'low magic.'





--
Erol K. Bayburt
ErolB1@aol.com

 

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Yes, he could sing "The Song of the Badgers"

Lyrics:

"Bbbbbbb-aaaaaa-dd-d-ggggg--eeeee-rrrrrsss
mmmm-nnnnnn-aaaaaaaaaaaa-rrrrrrrrr"
>waves tentacles<