Pentium II is alive and kicking! :)

All right, folks. I'm building a new system now. But what to do with my old one? Well, I decided to give it over to my daughter. Possibly, improving on it a bit, without replacing the motherboard. Adding more memory, etc...

Now, my old system's motherboard is Tyan Tiger 2, a dual-CPU for Pentium II's 233-333 MHz. I have 266s there now, so I though, why not up that to 333s, which is the max CPU clock that the board can handle. Pentium IIs must be real cheap by now... or so I thought. :)

I was up for some surprise. The lowest price on Slot 1 Pentium II 333 MHz is $71, according to pricewatch.com. Such stores as Spartan sells them for $96, even! Curiously enough, Pentium II 300 MHz are cheap, at $42. While Pentium II 350 MHz (which is higher than 333, as you know) are also cheap, at the very same $42.

Why such a price spike for Pentium II 333 MHz? Or is it precisely because it is the max for some mobos?

Leo
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  1. That's probably why. Or maybe because there weren't very many made, and they aren't made at all anymore?

    ------------------------------
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  2. It's probably not because they aren't made anymore. Pentium II 350 MHz also aren't made anymore, yet they are cheaper. The argument that 333 MHz is the max for some mobos might be a better explanation.

    Leo
  3. Why not buy 2 x 350 and run them at 333, or are they not compatible?

    <b>
    "Now drop your weapons or I'll kill him with this deadly jelly baby." :wink:
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  4. Thanks. That's an interesting thought. I don't know if they're compatible, but there are Pentium II 350 MHz CPUs that are based on SECC1.

    Leo
  5. Wait a second. Pentium II 350 MHz run under 100 MHz front bus. If I set them up to run under 66 MHz front bus, the CPU clock will actually be far lower than 333 MHz.

    Leo
  6. Can your motherboard run at 100 FSB? I have an old PII motherbaord with the 440 BX chipset and it gives me the ability to run at 66, 75, 100, 112, 133, and several other speeds in between. Now, even though my motherbaord says the max is 450 mHz, by running at 133 I can make my PII 350 run at 466 mHz (although not too reliably because I only have PC100 RAM), and with setting the multipliers manually my BIOS says it can get up to over 1000 mHz, although I doubt that would work. Even though mym otherboard came out before Pentium IIIs were released, the latest BIOS gives support to them, so you may even be able to run low mHz Pentium IIIs in there, depending on chipset and what the manufacturer says. I say go for the 350's and try running at a higher FSB. If it doesn't work, you can always take them back.

    "Trying is the first step towards failure."
  7. I'm pretty sure my mobo is based on 440LX chipset (how does it relate to BX, by the way?). I'll have to check the manual, when I'm back at home, to see if anything could be done with the FSB clock.

    Leo
  8. 100MHz FSB PII's are much cheaper per clock than 66MHz FSB. This is because most 100MHz boards can accept the 300/100, 350, 400, 450, PIII 550 and 600. Most even support the PIII Coppermines. So the 100MHz guys have more options. Meanwhile, the LX guys are stuck with whatever remains of the 333, 300/66, etc. So supplies of the 333 are short. I think the 300/100 and faster are probably multiplier locked, so if that is true, you get stuck.

    Cast not thine pearls before the swine
  9. *smiles*

    i was thinking u could get 2 500's @ 100 then set the fsb back to 66 to give 333, but thats a kinda big waste of processing power
    and i dunno if the p2 was made for that speed. thought the p2 line ended at 450.

    go with the 300's. wont really notice much diff. specially with dualies.


    My Hamster doesnt like sarcasm. He may very well bite you in your hard to reach places!
  10. Get PPGA Celerons @ 533. These hauled major A$$ on my BP6. I remember the good days.

    Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
  11. I must admit my ignorance of the old processors, as I wasn't that keen on that subject back then. But how would you suggest I could use Celerons 533 on a motherboard that only supports 66 MHz front side bus? If that is possible, I would be very interested to know how.

    Leo
  12. all the celron up to the 800 had a 66 fsb that is hpw he recomends you do it


    i'm not sure but you night need a slocket so that you can get the right voltage to this chip

    <font color=red>Gasoline + Fire</font color=red> Can be a lot of fun :smile: :smile: :smile:
  13. Even so, Aren't those Celerons socket-based? The mobo in question has SECC1 slots.

    Leo
  14. Slotkey

    Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
  15. yeh that is where the sloket comes

    it allows you to put a flip chip on this board named a sloket which then lets you put it in a slot and work

    slot + socket= slocket

    <font color=red>Gasoline + Fire</font color=red> Can be a lot of fun :smile: :smile: :smile:
  16. Oh... For a moment, I thought it was a typo. So, where do I get such a slocket?

    Leo
  17. they had one at my local computer store but your going to need one with a voltage setting on it so and i don't think the on there had them


    <font color=red>Gasoline + Fire</font color=red> Can be a lot of fun :smile: :smile: :smile:
  18. Never mind. Found it. It's called "converter" on pricewatch.com. :) Thanks!

    Leo
  19. Yes, you shouldn't have too many problems using two Celeron 533's just make sure they are PPGA, not FC-PGA. The 533 was available in both varieties. And you shouldn't need Slotkets with onboard voltage control, but you will need some that are SMP compatable. Asus and Iwill both cary inexpensive models garunteed SMP compatable.

    Cast not thine pearls before the swine
  20. Thanks. I have already found (and ordered) slockets with SMP capability:

    <A HREF="http://store.yahoo.com/aaronix/cpubridforne.html" target="_new">http://store.yahoo.com/aaronix/cpubridforne.html</A>

    But why does the CPU have to be PPGA? The slocket seems to work with FC-PGA, too. As long as the bus is 66 MHz, right? Which leaves me with Celerons up to 800 MHz, right?

    Leo
  21. Because most LX motherboard do not support Coppermine instruction sets. And because most do not support the lower voltage required to support them. And because the Slotket needed to drop the voltage is very expensive (from Powerleap). Don't let anyone fool you into thinking that one of the inexpesive adjustable voltage" models will work, they only change the required voltage detected by the motherboard and do not actully lower it beyond what the motherboard is able to support.

    Also, I have been told that SMP is disabled on Coppermine Celerons.

    Cast not thine pearls before the swine
  22. Cool then. I'll go for Celeron 533MHz PPGA. They're as cheap as those Pentium IIs. Thanks! :)

    Leo
  23. One last question. How strong a cooling does Celeron 533 PPGA need? Seeing as I'll be using slockets, I'm probably gonna be short on the room between the two slots.

    Would this be good?

    <A HREF="http://2cooltek.safeshopper.com/1/5.htm?836" target="_new">http://2cooltek.safeshopper.com/1/5.htm?836</A>

    Leo

    <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by LeoKor on 06/29/01 01:36 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
  24. Many of them came with cheap mini Pentium coolers. Most of those ran extrememly hot with those small coolers, but still ran, proving that they are very heat tolerant. I would go for a decent sized cooler, such as the ND-8 from www.nexfan.com The ND-8 is full of fins and fairly short compared to other coolers with the same surface area. Definately overkill for the 533, but at that price, I would rather have too much cooling than too little, and good short coolers are hard to find.

    Cast not thine pearls before the swine
  25. Thanks!

    But isn't ND-8 a little too high (53mm)? At the same site, I found this baby:

    <A HREF="http://www.nexfan.com/29/171.htm?117" target="_new">http://www.nexfan.com/29/171.htm?117</A>

    All copper, and just 25mm high. There are also two more low profile coolers at nexfan.com. Some food for thought... :)

    Leo
  26. Not too bad for the heatsink being only 15mm thick (plus 10 for the fan). I have never used such a small heatsink, but it might work. The heatsink of the ND-8 is only 13mm thicker (the fan is 15mm thicker!). You can try it, I have seen OEM's use that little $1.75 pentium cooler on the Celeron before, but it didn't work so well. The choice of course it yours, but I don't think the ND-8 is much thicker than a stock Pentium II passive heatsink. You could always measure to check. Your copper choice would probably work, but I would go for something with at least a bigger fan as a matter of personal preference.

    Cast not thine pearls before the swine
  27. Before you go and try using a 533 Celeron in there you have to make sure your motherboard can even support that high a multiplier. Using that means you'll need atleast an 8.0 multiplier on your motherboard, which may or may not be the cage considering how old it is and how it was only designed for up to 350 mHz processors. Like I said before, my old motherboard has an 8.0 multiplier, but only because it is newer and is designed for faster (than yours) chips, which is still only 533 mHz, not far from its 450 "max." But, I do guess you can always just return the chips if they don't work for ya.

    "Trying is the first step towards failure."
  28. You're right. The heighest multiplier that the mobo supports is 5, which means I'm stuck at 333 MHz maximum. Still, even downclocked like that, and even with the added cost of slotkets, the Celerons would be cheaper than Pentium II 333's. The heatsinks with fans run about the same price.

    Hmm, but is it really worth the trouble? :)

    Leo
  29. You're right, it probably isn't worth the trouble. So, how much were you planning on spending for the 2 chips, slotkets, and HSFs? It looks like you'd be spending about $100 for the 2 chips and another $20 for the slotkets and HSFs, correct? If so, you should just by a new motherboard and chip. You can get a KT133A AMD board for $70, and a Duron 700 for about $30, and new PC133 RAM for $15. That's $115, cheaper than going the dual Celeron route, and you'd be seeing HUGE performance gains over going dual Celeron 333s. You probably wouldn't need a new case if that LX motherboard is ATX form factor. I say either keep what you have, or go for the Duron solution that will be cheaper.

    "Trying is the first step towards failure."
  30. I will probably leave as it is. Well, maybe will throw in another DIMM... How much would an eight-year old need anyway, just to learn the basics? At this stage, a more important "upgrade" might have been a new case that looks like a kitty. :)

    Leo
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