Matthias

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Something bothers me about the rod magic item 'class'. It seems like a mix of
two different types.

Here's my proposed house rules:



I. The only Rodlike magic items that still count as Rods are the metamagic rods.
This makes Rods the magic-item equivalent of metamagic feats. I.E., wands are to
spells as rods are to metamagic feats. Namely:
A) Metamagic Rod, Empower, lesser
B) Metamagic Rod, Empower
C) Metamagic Rod, Empower, greater
D) Metamagic Rod, Enlarge, lesser
E) Metamagic Rod, Enlarge
F) Metamagic Rod, Enlarge, greater
G) Metamagic Rod, Extend, lesser
H) Metamagic Rod, Extend
I) Metamagic Rod, Extend, greater
J) Metamagic Rod, Maximize, lesser
K) Metamagic Rod, Maximize
L) Metamagic Rod, Maximize, greater
M) Metamagic Rod, Quicken, lesser
N) Metamagic Rod, Quicken
O) Metamagic Rod, Quicken, greater
P) Metamagic Rod, Silent, lesser
Q) Metamagic Rod, Silent
R) Metamagic Rod, Silent, greater


II. The following Rodlike magic items are reclassified as Wondrous Items with
the altered names:
A) Rod of Absorption -> "Cane of Absorption"
B) Rod of Cancellation -> "Cane of Cancellation"
C) Rod of Energy Detection -> "Baton of Energy Detection"
D) Rod of Flame Extinguishing -> "Cane of Flame Extinguishing"
E) Immovable Rod -> "Immovable Rung"
F) Rod of Lordly Might -> "Scepter of Lordly Might"
G) Rod of Metal and Mineral Detection -> "Baton of Metal and Mineral Detection"
H) Rod of Negation -> "Cane of Negation"
I) Rod of Rulership -> "Scepter of Rulership"
J) Rod of Security -> "Mace of Security"
K) Rod of Splendor -> "Scepter of Splendor"
L) Rod of Wonder -> "Baton of Wonder"

III. The following Rodlike magic items are reclassified as specific magical
weapons (and would belong in DMG table 7-16):
A) Rod of Alertness -> "Mace of Alertness"
B) Rod of Flailing -> "Dire Flail of Defense" [sorry, "Dire Flail of Flailing"
just sounds flurby]
C) Python Rod -> "Quarterstaff of the Python"
D) Rod of Thunder and Lightning -> "Mace of Thunder and Lightning"
E) Viper Rod -> "Mace of the Viper"
F) Rod of Withering -> "Mace of Withering"


--

Matthias (matthias_mls@yahoo.com)

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"Matthias" <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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> F) Rod of Lordly Might -> "Scepter of Lordly Might"

That's even worse, you realise.

- David Prokopetz.
 

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On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:26:27 -0600, "David Prokopetz" <sirbob@penguinking.com>
wrote:

>"Matthias" <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:fmdc3111c0dvs6b7ufuddejprovprsql7q@4ax.com...
>
>> F) Rod of Lordly Might -> "Scepter of Lordly Might"
>
>That's even worse, you realise.

English usually has no shortage of synonyms, but words meaning "stick" are
fairly lacking.

--

Matthias (matthias_mls@yahoo.com)

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On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:52:38 GMT, Matthias <matthias_mls@yahoo.com>
carved upon a tablet of ether:

> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:26:27 -0600, "David Prokopetz" <sirbob@penguinking.com>
> wrote:
>
> >"Matthias" <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:fmdc3111c0dvs6b7ufuddejprovprsql7q@4ax.com...
> >
> >> F) Rod of Lordly Might -> "Scepter of Lordly Might"
> >
> >That's even worse, you realise.
>
> English usually has no shortage of synonyms, but words meaning "stick" are
> fairly lacking.

Rod, wand, twig, pole, switch, branch, staff, stalk. "I pull out my
Twig of Power!"


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."
 

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On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:08:55 +1300, Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
wrote:

>On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:52:38 GMT, Matthias <matthias_mls@yahoo.com>
>carved upon a tablet of ether:
>
>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:26:27 -0600, "David Prokopetz" <sirbob@penguinking.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >"Matthias" <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >news:fmdc3111c0dvs6b7ufuddejprovprsql7q@4ax.com...
>> >
>> >> F) Rod of Lordly Might -> "Scepter of Lordly Might"
>> >
>> >That's even worse, you realise.
>>
>> English usually has no shortage of synonyms, but words meaning "stick" are
>> fairly lacking.
>
>Rod, wand, twig, pole, switch, branch, staff, stalk. "I pull out my
>Twig of Power!"

Let me rephrase: "/manly/ words meaning 'stick' are fairly lacking." :)

--

Matthias (matthias_mls@yahoo.com)

"Scientists tend to do philosophy about as well as you'd expect philosophers to
do science, the difference being that at least the philosophers usually *know*
when they're out of their depth."
-Jeff Heikkinen
 
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"Matthias" <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qo9f31dqqcs6g6cnenpvnl8adev7ghf1bb@4ax.com...
> >> English usually has no shortage of synonyms, but words meaning "stick"
are
> >> fairly lacking.
> >
> >Rod, wand, twig, pole, switch, branch, staff, stalk. "I pull out my
> >Twig of Power!"
>
> Let me rephrase: "/manly/ words meaning 'stick' are fairly lacking." :)

Hang on here, who wouldn't want a Stalk of Stalking? ;)

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
 
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Matthias wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:08:55 +1300, Rupert Boleyn
> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:52:38 GMT, Matthias <matthias_mls@yahoo.com>
>> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>>
>>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:26:27 -0600, "David Prokopetz"
>>> <sirbob@penguinking.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Matthias" <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:fmdc3111c0dvs6b7ufuddejprovprsql7q@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>> F) Rod of Lordly Might -> "Scepter of Lordly Might"
>>>>
>>>> That's even worse, you realise.
>>>
>>> English usually has no shortage of synonyms, but words meaning
>>> "stick" are fairly lacking.
>>
>> Rod, wand, twig, pole, switch, branch, staff, stalk. "I pull out my
>> Twig of Power!"
>
> Let me rephrase: "/manly/ words meaning 'stick' are fairly lacking."
> :)

Shaft of Lordly Might?

<Hopes his players never see that one>

--
Mark.
 
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On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 03:17:09 GMT, Matthias <matthias_mls@yahoo.com>
carved upon a tablet of ether:

> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:08:55 +1300, Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:52:38 GMT, Matthias <matthias_mls@yahoo.com>
> >carved upon a tablet of ether:
> >
> >> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:26:27 -0600, "David Prokopetz" <sirbob@penguinking.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >"Matthias" <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:fmdc3111c0dvs6b7ufuddejprovprsql7q@4ax.com...
> >> >
> >> >> F) Rod of Lordly Might -> "Scepter of Lordly Might"
> >> >
> >> >That's even worse, you realise.
> >>
> >> English usually has no shortage of synonyms, but words meaning "stick" are
> >> fairly lacking.
> >
> >Rod, wand, twig, pole, switch, branch, staff, stalk. "I pull out my
> >Twig of Power!"
>
> Let me rephrase: "/manly/ words meaning 'stick' are fairly lacking." :)

I'm surprised Hong hasn't raised his head yet.



--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."
 

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On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:03:09 +1300, Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
wrote:

>On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 03:17:09 GMT, Matthias <matthias_mls@yahoo.com>
>carved upon a tablet of ether:
>
>> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:08:55 +1300, Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:52:38 GMT, Matthias <matthias_mls@yahoo.com>
>> >carved upon a tablet of ether:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:26:27 -0600, "David Prokopetz" <sirbob@penguinking.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >"Matthias" <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >> >news:fmdc3111c0dvs6b7ufuddejprovprsql7q@4ax.com...
>> >> >
>> >> >> F) Rod of Lordly Might -> "Scepter of Lordly Might"
>> >> >
>> >> >That's even worse, you realise.
>> >>
>> >> English usually has no shortage of synonyms, but words meaning "stick" are
>> >> fairly lacking.
>> >
>> >Rod, wand, twig, pole, switch, branch, staff, stalk. "I pull out my
>> >Twig of Power!"
>>
>> Let me rephrase: "/manly/ words meaning 'stick' are fairly lacking." :)
>
>I'm surprised Hong hasn't raised his head yet.

We don't need anyone raising their head here, this is a family board after all
--

Matthias (matthias_mls@yahoo.com)

"Scientists tend to do philosophy about as well as you'd expect philosophers to
do science, the difference being that at least the philosophers usually *know*
when they're out of their depth."
-Jeff Heikkinen
 
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Matthias <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> writes:


>Huh. I was not aware any balance among the magic item categories even existed.
>Potions & Oils versus Staves, anyone?

Oil vs Rod.

ISAGN, IYKWIM, AITYD.
--
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www.stanford.edu/~jmbay/ got my mojo properly adjusted
 
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On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 02:41:45 GMT, Matthias <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> scribed
into the ether:

>On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:45:58 -0800, "Malachias Invictus"
><capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Matthias" <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:tgoh31pft1k0dpkjbghnvmfgje0vmnjad6@4ax.com...

>>> and if dropping some of those rods into the category could possibly
>>> unbalance
>>> the Craft Wondrous Item feat to any noticeable degree.
>>
>>No. Craft Wondrous Item is already very powerful, and does not need a boost
>>at the expense of a feat that is already fairly limited in scope.
>
>I have to BS on this whole "magic item balance" thing.
>
>Brew Potion is minimum caster level 3.
>Craft Wondrous item is minimum caster level 3.
>
>Where is the balance there?

The fact that a level 3 spellcaster is not going to have the resources to
make even a tiny portion of the Wondrous items which are available. You can
start pumping out potions with 1st and 2nd level spells on them to your
heart's content, but if you need a bowl of water elemental summoning, level
3 just isn't going to cut it.
 

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On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:04:39 GMT, Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 02:41:45 GMT, Matthias <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> scribed
>into the ether:
>
>>On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 08:45:58 -0800, "Malachias Invictus"
>><capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Matthias" <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:tgoh31pft1k0dpkjbghnvmfgje0vmnjad6@4ax.com...
>
>>>> and if dropping some of those rods into the category could possibly
>>>> unbalance
>>>> the Craft Wondrous Item feat to any noticeable degree.
>>>
>>>No. Craft Wondrous Item is already very powerful, and does not need a boost
>>>at the expense of a feat that is already fairly limited in scope.
>>
>>I have to BS on this whole "magic item balance" thing.
>>
>>Brew Potion is minimum caster level 3.
>>Craft Wondrous item is minimum caster level 3.
>>
>>Where is the balance there?
>
>The fact that a level 3 spellcaster is not going to have the resources to
>make even a tiny portion of the Wondrous items which are available. You can
>start pumping out potions with 1st and 2nd level spells on them to your
>heart's content, but if you need a bowl of water elemental summoning, level
>3 just isn't going to cut it.

While true, it doesn't help the case that Wondrous Items is supposed to be this
great all-powerful magic item category that cannot stand even one additional
item to be added to it (in spite of the fact that a great majority of items that
might be invented, are more likely to end up in the Wondrous Item category than
any other, by virtue of its "catch all" nature).

If a character can't afford all Wondrous Items at 3rd caster level, oh well ...
:) It's a good thing he can't make staves either, and for the same reasons.
Magic item category has nothing to do with it; it's only the power of an
individual magic item that matters.

--

Matthias (matthias_mls@yahoo.com)

"Scientists tend to do philosophy about as well as you'd expect philosophers to
do science, the difference being that at least the philosophers usually *know*
when they're out of their depth."
-Jeff Heikkinen
 
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Matthias wrote:
> While true, it doesn't help the case that Wondrous Items is supposed
> to be this great all-powerful magic item category that cannot stand
> even one additional item to be added to it ....

Quit yer bitchin' already. You posted yet another stupid idea. Get over it.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 

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On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:46:35 GMT, "Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com>
wrote:

>Matthias wrote:
>> While true, it doesn't help the case that Wondrous Items is supposed
>> to be this great all-powerful magic item category that cannot stand
>> even one additional item to be added to it ....
>
>Quit yer bitchin' already. You posted yet another stupid idea. Get over it.

Sorry, but you're wrong. I can do only so much to explain things to you. If you
wish to close up your ears and repeat that kind of mantra to yourself, then
sorry, I can't help you.

--

Matthias (matthias_mls@yahoo.com)

"Scientists tend to do philosophy about as well as you'd expect philosophers to
do science, the difference being that at least the philosophers usually *know*
when they're out of their depth."
-Jeff Heikkinen
 
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"Matthias" <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5ohn319ajerr6e2h7cgqamo1nsegbfqk86@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:46:35 GMT, "Bradd W. Szonye"
> <bradd+news@szonye.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Matthias wrote:
>>> While true, it doesn't help the case that Wondrous Items is supposed
>>> to be this great all-powerful magic item category that cannot stand
>>> even one additional item to be added to it ....
>>
>>Quit yer bitchin' already. You posted yet another stupid idea. Get over
>>it.
>
> Sorry, but you're wrong.

Nah, he's right. Craft Wondrous Items does not need to boost, and Craft Rod
*certainly* does not need the nerf. If one of my players suggested it, I
would figure that he wanted to be able to make one of the rods, but did not
want to burn an extra feat, and was trying some bullshit rationale to get me
to houserule it.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 
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Malachias Invictus wrote:
> Matthias wrote:
> > Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
> > > Matthias wrote:
> > > > While true, it doesn't help the case that Wondrous
> > > > Items is supposed to be this great all-powerful
> > > > magic item category that cannot stand even one
> > > > additional item to be added to it ....
> > >
> > > Quit yer bitchin' already. You posted yet another
> > > stupid idea. Get over it.
> >
> > Sorry, but you're wrong.
>
> Nah, he's right. Craft Wondrous Items does not need
> to boost, and Craft Rod *certainly* does not need the
> nerf. If one of my players suggested it, I would
> figure that he wanted to be able to make one of the
> rods, but did not want to burn an extra feat, and was
> trying some bullshit rationale to get me to houserule
> it.

That said, I'm considering adopting a modified version of Matthias'
idea, but it wouldn't work for most campaigns. I've got the advantage
that none of my players are powergamers, and I'd like them to have a
few more options per choice... So I'm going to separate them like
Matthias suggested initially, but fold the now nearly-useless Craft
Rod (metamagic rods only, at this point) into the wand feat, and just
call it "Craft Wand and Rod".

My reasoning is solely that Rods have always seemed like a superfluous
magic item category to me, and I have little worry about the effects
the powerup of CWI would have on anyone else's game... But I'm aware
of those effects, and acknowledge them. :D

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
 
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On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:19:42 -0800, "Malachias Invictus"
<capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Matthias" <matthias_mls@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:5ohn319ajerr6e2h7cgqamo1nsegbfqk86@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:46:35 GMT, "Bradd W. Szonye"
>> <bradd+news@szonye.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Matthias wrote:
>>>> While true, it doesn't help the case that Wondrous Items is supposed
>>>> to be this great all-powerful magic item category that cannot stand
>>>> even one additional item to be added to it ....
>>>
>>>Quit yer bitchin' already. You posted yet another stupid idea. Get over
>>>it.
>>
>> Sorry, but you're wrong.
>
>Nah, he's right. Craft Wondrous Items does not need to boost, and Craft Rod
>*certainly* does not need the nerf. If one of my players suggested it, I
>would figure that he wanted to be able to make one of the rods, but did not
>want to burn an extra feat, and was trying some bullshit rationale to get me
>to houserule it.

I know I'm strongly tempted to split Craft Wondrous Item into two
feats - probably "Craft Lesser Wondrous Item" and "Craft Greater
Wondrous Item" based on the items minimum caster level or prerequisite
spell, or some such.

--
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ErolB1@aol.com
 
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> My reasoning is solely that Rods have always seemed like a
superfluous
> magic item category to me, and I have little worry about the effects
> the powerup of CWI would have on anyone else's game... But I'm aware
> of those effects, and acknowledge them. :D

The great thing about rods was, an animal had to save vs rods to
resist a friendly ranger. I like how it made no sense.
 
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Time to step up the meds; I could have sworn Nikolas Landauer just
said...
> Malachias Invictus wrote:
> > Matthias wrote:
> > > Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
> > > > Matthias wrote:
> > > > > While true, it doesn't help the case that Wondrous
> > > > > Items is supposed to be this great all-powerful
> > > > > magic item category that cannot stand even one
> > > > > additional item to be added to it ....
> > > >
> > > > Quit yer bitchin' already. You posted yet another
> > > > stupid idea. Get over it.
> > >
> > > Sorry, but you're wrong.
> >
> > Nah, he's right. Craft Wondrous Items does not need
> > to boost, and Craft Rod *certainly* does not need the
> > nerf. If one of my players suggested it, I would
> > figure that he wanted to be able to make one of the
> > rods, but did not want to burn an extra feat, and was
> > trying some bullshit rationale to get me to houserule
> > it.
>
> That said, I'm considering adopting a modified version of Matthias'
> idea, but it wouldn't work for most campaigns. I've got the advantage
> that none of my players are powergamers, and I'd like them to have a
> few more options per choice... So I'm going to separate them like
> Matthias suggested initially, but fold the now nearly-useless Craft
> Rod (metamagic rods only, at this point) into the wand feat, and just
> call it "Craft Wand and Rod".

Just go with the AU split. Craft One-Use Item, Craft Spell Completion
Item, Craft Charged Item, Craft Constant Item, Craft Magical Arms and
Armour. Maybe split Craft Constant Item into two feats, one a
prerequisite for the other, based on the GP value of the final result.
Done.
 
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"Jeff Heikkinen" <no.way@jose.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ca642b32019a2a298a0e3@news.easynews.com...
> Time to step up the meds; I could have sworn Nikolas Landauer just
> said...
>> Malachias Invictus wrote:
>> > Matthias wrote:
>> > > Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
>> > > > Matthias wrote:
>> > > > > While true, it doesn't help the case that Wondrous
>> > > > > Items is supposed to be this great all-powerful
>> > > > > magic item category that cannot stand even one
>> > > > > additional item to be added to it ....
>> > > >
>> > > > Quit yer bitchin' already. You posted yet another
>> > > > stupid idea. Get over it.
>> > >
>> > > Sorry, but you're wrong.
>> >
>> > Nah, he's right. Craft Wondrous Items does not need
>> > to boost, and Craft Rod *certainly* does not need the
>> > nerf. If one of my players suggested it, I would
>> > figure that he wanted to be able to make one of the
>> > rods, but did not want to burn an extra feat, and was
>> > trying some bullshit rationale to get me to houserule
>> > it.
>>
>> That said, I'm considering adopting a modified version of Matthias'
>> idea, but it wouldn't work for most campaigns. I've got the advantage
>> that none of my players are powergamers, and I'd like them to have a
>> few more options per choice... So I'm going to separate them like
>> Matthias suggested initially, but fold the now nearly-useless Craft
>> Rod (metamagic rods only, at this point) into the wand feat, and just
>> call it "Craft Wand and Rod".
>
> Just go with the AU split. Craft One-Use Item, Craft Spell Completion
> Item, Craft Charged Item, Craft Constant Item, Craft Magical Arms and
> Armour. Maybe split Craft Constant Item into two feats, one a
> prerequisite for the other, based on the GP value of the final result.
> Done.

That is a pretty good way of doing it. I am likely to change my item
creation feats to those.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 
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"John H" <mongloid2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1111263785.814602.318310@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> My reasoning is solely that Rods have always seemed like a
> superfluous
>> magic item category to me, and I have little worry about the effects
>> the powerup of CWI would have on anyone else's game... But I'm aware
>> of those effects, and acknowledge them. :D
>
> The great thing about rods was, an animal had to save vs rods to
> resist a friendly ranger. I like how it made no sense.

You are misinterpreting their meaning of "friendly," IYKWIM, AITYD.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 
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capt_malachias@hotmail.com wrote:

> Craft Wondrous Items does not need to boost, and Craft Rod
> *certainly* does not need the nerf. If one of my players suggested it, I
> would figure that he wanted to be able to make one of the rods, but did not
> want to burn an extra feat, and was trying some bullshit rationale to get me
> to houserule it.

Going on a tangent, is there anything in the letter of the rules
stopping this theoretical player from simply making a Wondrous Item with
the effect he wants? How about the spirit?

Is it possible to make a metamagic breatsplate, a sword of witherin, a
hat of wonder...?


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
 
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Jeff Heikkinen wrote:
> Time to step up the meds; I could have sworn Nikolas
> Landauer just said...
> >
> > So I'm going to separate [metamagic feats] like
> > Matthias suggested initially, but fold the now
> > nearly-useless Craft Rod (metamagic rods only, at
> > this point) into the wand feat, and just call it
> > "Craft Wand and Rod".
>
> Just go with the AU split. Craft One-Use Item, Craft
> Spell Completion Item, Craft Charged Item, Craft
> Constant Item, Craft Magical Arms and Armour. Maybe
> split Craft Constant Item into two feats, one a
> prerequisite for the other, based on the GP value of
> the final result. Done.

Actually, that wouldn't work as well for my group. They have a
tendency to oppose change, so the smallest change that has a useful
effect is often the better choice for my games.

While I prefer AU's magic item system, it does require a bit more
attention paid to the various multipliers spells should have.

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.
 

Matthias

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On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:19:42 -0800, "Malachias Invictus"
<capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Nah, he's right. Craft Wondrous Items does not need to boost, and Craft Rod
>*certainly* does not need the nerf. If one of my players suggested it, I
>would figure that he wanted to be able to make one of the rods, but did not
>want to burn an extra feat, and was trying some bullshit rationale to get me
>to houserule it.

What does it matter if the feats are a little more uneven?

Feat uselessness /should/ be avoided. This much is true.

If someone wants a metamagic rod, they'll get the feat. Does the non-metmagic
rods make up the bulk of the Craft Rod feat's usefulness? I doubt it.

Similarly, would the switchover of some of these rods to Wondrous Items by
themselves, cause the feat to break the "would everyone take this feat" rule? If
/all/ the Rods were folded into Wondrous Items, would it fail that rule even
then? Can you imagine everyone picking up that feat whenever possible? If not,
then the feat and the magic item class should be able to take the strain of a
few extra options.


--

Matthias (matthias_mls@yahoo.com)

"Scientists tend to do philosophy about as well as you'd expect philosophers to
do science, the difference being that at least the philosophers usually *know*
when they're out of their depth."
-Jeff Heikkinen
 
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Time to step up the meds; I could have sworn Nikolas Landauer just
said...
> Jeff Heikkinen wrote:
> > Time to step up the meds; I could have sworn Nikolas
> > Landauer just said...
> > >
> > > So I'm going to separate [metamagic feats] like
> > > Matthias suggested initially, but fold the now
> > > nearly-useless Craft Rod (metamagic rods only, at
> > > this point) into the wand feat, and just call it
> > > "Craft Wand and Rod".
> >
> > Just go with the AU split. Craft One-Use Item, Craft
> > Spell Completion Item, Craft Charged Item, Craft
> > Constant Item, Craft Magical Arms and Armour. Maybe
> > split Craft Constant Item into two feats, one a
> > prerequisite for the other, based on the GP value of
> > the final result. Done.
>
> Actually, that wouldn't work as well for my group. They have a
> tendency to oppose change, so the smallest change that has a useful
> effect is often the better choice for my games.
>
> While I prefer AU's magic item system, it does require a bit more
> attention paid to the various multipliers spells should have.

There's nothing that says you absolutely *must* use the multipliers just
because you use that way of splitting up the feats, and neither depends
on the AU magic system in the sense of having diminished/enhanced
spells, weaving etc. All three are good ideas, but they seem entirely
independent of one another.