Help with genocide.

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

So I have this promising Archeologist (same as in a previous
post, except now he's cleared out 'till orcus town, and
finished Vlad's tower), and I was trying to polypile for a ring of
TC (I'm jumpy, and the only one I had was stolen by a nymph that
vanished). Just for fun, I also decided to polypile most of that
stack of uncursed teleportation scrolls I almost never use. To
make a long story short, I now have 24 (+1 in my stash) scrolls of
genocide.

So far I've only genocided 'h' (just to make my life simpler).

Any ideas about what to do? Should I wait until the ascention run
to genocide things, or should I genocide them as they come? Reverse
genocide wraiths or nurses?

Currently I'm toying with genociding every species possible (not sure
how many scrolls that takes), and seeing what the planes look like when
(almost) empty. Anything to worry about?

Knnn.

 

[Sean]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Knnn wrote:
> So I have this promising Archeologist (same as in a previous
> post, except now he's cleared out 'till orcus town, and
> finished Vlad's tower), and I was trying to polypile for a ring of
> TC (I'm jumpy, and the only one I had was stolen by a nymph that
> vanished). Just for fun, I also decided to polypile most of that
> stack of uncursed teleportation scrolls I almost never use. To
> make a long story short, I now have 24 (+1 in my stash) scrolls of
> genocide.
>
> So far I've only genocided 'h' (just to make my life simpler).
>
> Any ideas about what to do? Should I wait until the ascention run
> to genocide things, or should I genocide them as they come? Reverse
> genocide wraiths or nurses?
>
> Currently I'm toying with genociding every species possible (not sure
> how many scrolls that takes), and seeing what the planes look like when
> (almost) empty. Anything to worry about?

Well, if you hadn't gone and cleared orcus town I would have suggested
'm'-class for more items. Looks like you're pretty much beyond that
stage now, though.
'R'-class is one annoyance less to deal with, I'd go for that one.
Got all the strength-boosts you need? Not worried about getting gems?
Getting rid of 'H' would help clear the dungeon of all those pesky
boulders that only get in the way of things in the middle of combat.
I see no possible use for the 'T'-class, so while you're getting rid of
annoyances...
What happens to graveyards if M, Z and V are genocided? Bonus-wraiths?
Less monsters overall? If the number of wraiths in increased by this, go
for it and turbo-level a pet in the Sanctum. (Wait, is there a graveyard
in the sanctum? Am I confusing it with the VotD? No time to check right now)
I've never ever been killed by a ;, even when engaging every single one
in melee, so going for these would be a novelty-value thing only. What
the hell would spawn on Water?

Of course, to top it all off, you'll genocide @ because you're not
thinking straight, and there's a YASD to be proud of.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> "Knnn" <knnn@go.com> writes:
>
> > So I have this promising Archeologist (same as in a previous
> > post, except now he's cleared out 'till orcus town, and
> > finished Vlad's tower), and I was trying to polypile for a ring of
> > TC (I'm jumpy, and the only one I had was stolen by a nymph that
> > vanished). Just for fun, I also decided to polypile most of that
> > stack of uncursed teleportation scrolls I almost never use. To
> > make a long story short, I now have 24 (+1 in my stash) scrolls of
> > genocide.
>
> Well, reverse-genociding tengi comes to mind.

That was my first instinct as well. Make sure to do it inside the
'non-teleport' level, and if possible a non-eating pet that can kill
the tengus if you don't want to kill the peacefuls yourself. Oh, and
tinning kit too.

>
> > So far I've only genocided 'h' (just to make my life simpler).
> >
> > Any ideas about what to do?

<snip>

> These are also good ideas. I prefer to reverse-geno nurses on
> the first Sokoban level.

Like Jacob, I also like reverse-geno route. I decided I like not
genociding monsters. Not that it makes the game harder/easier, but I
like that variety of having lots of different monsters.

Outside of the obvious ones that are mensioned (tengu, nurse), you can
pretty much pick and choose any dragons for dragon scale mail
constuctions if you want a particular DSM. Unicorns for the massive
number of unihorns, which can be then polypiled to make some magic
tools (magic markers comes to my mind). Giants for strength.
Mindflayers for intelligence. Maybe some pet bait, if you can tame'em?
Make sure you have some tinning kits for some corpse munching. If you
are still missing some intrinsics other than TC, you can try for those
too. Elves can give you a lot of magical armor peices if you want to
polypile magical armor.

-K

 

[JJ]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> 24 scrolls of genocide... I would probably geno a lot of insects, too. Not
> because they're particularly dangerous, but because they're annoying when
> priests summon them.

If you decide to Genocide Insects for this purpose, remember that
Priests will summon snakes as a failsafe and you will have to Genocide
those as well.

~JJ

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Wed, 19 Jul 2005, Knnn wrote:

> So I have this promising Archeologist (same as in a previous
> post, except now he's cleared out 'till orcus town, and
> finished Vlad's tower), and I was trying to polypile for a ring of
> TC (I'm jumpy, and the only one I had was stolen by a nymph that
> vanished). Just for fun, I also decided to polypile most of that
> stack of uncursed teleportation scrolls I almost never use. To
> make a long story short, I now have 24 (+1 in my stash) scrolls of
> genocide.
>
> So far I've only genocided 'h' (just to make my life simpler).

L, without doubt. R, always bad news. V, avoid level drain (well, not so
necessary since you've already cleaned the Valley).
; but only once on Water (to avoid having it filled with other nasty
things, wait until they are all generated on Water and wipped them).
Beware of genociding too many things, that just call for the RGN to have
no other monster to generate that air elementals and Archons...

Do a lot of nurse dancing. A scroll of geno can bring up 50 HP, iirc.
A character with 600+ HPs and a AoLS do no really need to look at its
HPs... Just hack and slash.

If you want to use lots of pets, geno trappers and worms. Trolls are
always an annoyance but also make good pets.

Keep scrolls at hand (blessed and a few uncursed) as weapon of mass
destruction in case of emergency.

Don't geno insect, they probably saved my life on Astral in my first
ascension (somehow once in the corridor to the left altar, the giant ant
behind me did much less damage than Death...)

The extinctionnist FAQ had a list of all you need to geno as much as
possible. IIRC, that was around 45-50 scrolls. You're halfway

But always remember that genociding mid-level monster will make more
high-levels monsters generated. And high-level monsters are not
genocidable...

--
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

Adresse mail plus valide à partir de septembre 2005.
Utiliser l'adresse de redirection permanente :
Jean-Yves.Moyen `at` ens-lyon.org

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Hi All.
Thanks for all the advice.

I play conservatively, which means that I like to explore the
entire dungeon, and pick up every piece of loot to stash (not
that I do anything with it). I also like to avoid using wishes
until the last possible moment in case I need anything. As a
result I usually start my ascension run with AC -40 and have
plenty of hitpoints from alchemy (I currently have enough for
42!oFH). The only thing I'm waiting for before making my
ascension run is gauntlets of dexterity and <sigh> Grayswandir
<\sigh> (What else could a lawful archeologist use?)

So the current plan is as follows:
1. Genocide the annoying: h (done),L,R,;,n (for revenge),g (ditto).
--Can you genocide green slimes? (P)

2. Genocide the undead: I can't sac' them and maybe I'll get more
wraiths in the sanctum. V,Z,M

3. Reverse genocide: Tengi.
-- I have already max stats (alchemized potions of gain ability
for magic mapping) and I don't need any other intrinsic.

So that's 10 scrolls. 15 more to go.

I guess I could reverse genocide some nurses. I think each
scroll gives you about ~60 hitpoints. I already expect to have
500 hitpoints for my ascension run, but I can see that having 1000+
hitpoints could be fun. What's the most hitpoints anyone ever
ascended with? 32767?

Actually, I think I'm going to go one of two ways.

Either I'll pull a Paul Atreides on Astral (That's reverse
genocide purple worms twice, charm or confused taming, then wield
two crysknives to the end). Can you ride a purple worm?

--I tried this once with a knight (minus the crysknives and riding,
didn't think of it at the time), and my guardian angel didn't get
out of the way in time. Still was fun though.

The other option is to wish up a figurine of an Archon, max him out
(have to find out what he can wear, get a few more potions of gain
level, etc.) and that means genociding t,w,c. Anything else I need
to worry about here?

I also like the idea of carrying around scrolls (both uncursed and
blessed) as nukes <evil grin>.

To paraphrase Clint Eastwood:

"Ah Ah, I know what you're thinking. 'Did he use up all his scrolls
or is there one left' Well, to tell you the truth, in all this
excitement I've kinda lost track myself. But being this is a
blessed scroll of genocide, the most powerful weapon in Nethack,
and would blow you and all your friends clean outta the dungeon,
you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well,
do ya, punk?"

Or I could always genocide all elves.

Thanks for the suggestions.
Knnn.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005, Jym wrote:


> Don't geno insect, they probably saved my life on Astral in my first
> ascension (somehow once in the corridor to the left altar, the giant ant
> behind me did much less damage than Death...)

Augh! This didn't even occur to me when I made the suggestion. I just
remember having a hard time getting around at the bottom because of all
the bugs and other things the priests summoned. It wasn't
life-threatening, just very annoying.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Knnn" <knnn@go.com> writes:

> So I have this promising Archeologist (same as in a previous
> post, except now he's cleared out 'till orcus town, and
> finished Vlad's tower), and I was trying to polypile for a ring of
> TC (I'm jumpy, and the only one I had was stolen by a nymph that
> vanished). Just for fun, I also decided to polypile most of that
> stack of uncursed teleportation scrolls I almost never use. To
> make a long story short, I now have 24 (+1 in my stash) scrolls of
> genocide.

Well, reverse-genociding tengi comes to mind.

> So far I've only genocided 'h' (just to make my life simpler).
>
> Any ideas about what to do?

Genocide liches, and (even if Dave will explain that this is
completely unnecessary) you can also genocide ;. I like to
genocide nymphs, too, just for revenge. Giants are a good
source for strength, in particular in conjunction with a tinning
kit, so one could spend some scrolls for them. (18/** strength
gives the same boni as 25 strength, hence gauntlets of power
can be omitted if you have maximal strength.)

> Should I wait until the ascention run
> to genocide things, or should I genocide them as they come? Reverse
> genocide wraiths or nurses?

These are also good ideas. I prefer to reverse-geno nurses on
the first Sokoban level.

Best,
Jakob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> > 2. Genocide the undead: I can't sac' them and maybe I'll get more
> > wraiths in the sanctum. V,Z,M
>
> Why would you want wraiths? Unless you actually *want* them to touch you
> to make your level lower, I see no use to them...

<confused>
Wraith corpses are good for me and my pets. Right?
</confused>

On a side note:

Ever see a purple worm go through the graveyard in the sanctum?
I'm never checked the code, but my experience is that they need 0
(maybe 1) turns to digest wraiths or ghosts (and maybe even V,Z and M)
because they provide 0 nutrition, and so are ready to tackle the
next monster right away. It's "Burrp", "Burrp", "Burrp" the whole
way.


> If you do, spell it correctly, or the game won't recognise it. The
> plural of tengu is tengu. It's not Latin, but Japanese.
>

Right. Thanks.


> > Can you ride a purple worm?
>
> Don't know if you can. But I know that you *should* be able to, provided
> you already are "skilled" or "expert".
>

I think I saw somewhere that A's can only get to basic. Maybe I'll
give it a shot. I have a lot of time 'till my ascention run (both
real and game time). Still looking for Grayswandir.

Thanks again.
Knnn.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

BManx2000 wrote:
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> > Jakob Creutzig wrote:
>
> >>18/** strength gives the same boni as 25 strength, hence gauntlets
> >>of power can be omitted if you have maximal strength.
>
> > Not if you're playing an orc. Their maximum strength is capped at 18/50.
>
> Erm. How does that even begin to make sense? I would expect orcs to be
> stronger, not weaker.

Nethack deals in heros not regular people. The most heroic
orc is not as strong as the most heroic human, elf or gnome
even though the run-of-the-mill orc that you never seem to
see on the streets is stronger than the average
run-of-the-mill human. Apparently there is less diversity
among orcs.

That's my theory.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

--
It's been argreed the whole world stinks,
So no one's taking showers anymore - Modest mouse, Paper Thin Walls
"Adam Lawson" <adam.lawson@gmail.com> wrote in message
newsine.WNT.4.63.0507191806190.1468@Zelda...
>
>
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Knnn wrote:
>
> > To
> > make a long story short, I now have 24 (+1 in my stash) scrolls of
> > genocide.
>
> My first response to this involved the word "holy" and an expletive.
> That's a LOT of scrolls of genocide.
>
> > Currently I'm toying with genociding every species possible (not sure
> > how many scrolls that takes), and seeing what the planes look like when
> > (almost) empty. Anything to worry about?
> >
>

> 24 scrolls of genocide... I would probably geno a lot of insects, too. Not
> because they're particularly dangerous, but because they're annoying when
> priests summon them. And you're getting near priests.
It might not be a good idea to genocide insects, they provide a good buffer
against the riders etc.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym wrote:

> L, without doubt. R, always bad news.

R is the class *I* would say was completely unnecessary; when you've got
everything fooproofed rust monsters don't do any damage at all, and in my
last 10 or so games when I got far enough to meet disenchanters they
haven't succeeded in disenchanting anything I didn't want disenchanted.
They're slow, susceptible to cancellation, and can easily be taken out
with missiles, wands or spells.

Raisse, killed by a lich

--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.

 

[James]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1121811251.488250.227110@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Knnn <knnn@go.com> wrote:
>
>
>So I have this promising Archeologist (same as in a previous
>post, except now he's cleared out 'till orcus town, and
>finished Vlad's tower), and I was trying to polypile for a ring of
>TC (I'm jumpy, and the only one I had was stolen by a nymph that
>vanished). Just for fun, I also decided to polypile most of that
>stack of uncursed teleportation scrolls I almost never use. To
>make a long story short, I now have 24 (+1 in my stash) scrolls of
>genocide.
>
>So far I've only genocided 'h' (just to make my life simpler).
>
>Any ideas about what to do?

I wouldn't genocide anything. Those scrolls are valuable more for their
ability to bring specific monsters *into* existence. Genociding
monsters can be a liability, in the long run. If I found a blessed
scroll of genocide in the first few turns, I might use it to eliminate
mimics (yes, I'm totally serious).

Particularly, I would *not* do h's, not flayers, and certainly not L's.
b's might tempt me, but hardly.

>Currently I'm toying with genociding every species possible (not sure
>how many scrolls that takes), and seeing what the planes look like when
>(almost) empty. Anything to worry about?

They won't be empty. If you genocide everything, you'll just have
nasties where the more manageable monsters would have been. Genocide
can be a liability, in the long run. It's certainly handy if it saves
your butt in a given emergency situation, but as a strategy, it's better
to avoid genocides altogether.

 

[James]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <42de8429$0$81840$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
Raisse the Thaumaturge <raisse@valdyas.org> wrote:

>> L, without doubt. R, always bad news.

I'd never genocide L's, unless I was one turn before death and that
was the only way to survive. And eliminating R's might mean a cap on
armor and weapons enchantment (if you can't disenchant, you might be
stuck with stuff at +4 or +6).

I've found that I can make a counter argument against genociding
*anything*, except maybe, if it's early enough, "m". (Not joking).

After a certain point, L's are just a free "create monster" source.
And in my current game, since I've killed all the demon lords, I think
L's are the only hope I have of summoning Demogorgon. (And my
geno-less extinctionist nonwizard won't be complete without Demo).

 

[Sean]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Raisse the Thaumaturge wrote:

>>L, without doubt. R, always bad news.
>
> R is the class *I* would say was completely unnecessary; when you've got
> everything fooproofed rust monsters don't do any damage at all, and in my
> last 10 or so games when I got far enough to meet disenchanters they
> haven't succeeded in disenchanting anything I didn't want disenchanted.
> They're slow, susceptible to cancellation, and can easily be taken out
> with missiles, wands or spells.

It all depends on the OP's playing style, some people don't bother with
spells or ranged attacks at all. So if he's going all-melee it would be
handy for saving charges.
Also, in the (very unlikely) event that one gets a couple of hits in, or
you zap it with an empty wand without noticing, re-enchanting your stuff
is a real hassle and a big drain on magic marker(s).
So given the number of scrolls he has, if he *is* playing a wombat, I'd
say that 'R' would not be a wholly frivolous use of a genocide.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Knnn wrote:

> 2. Genocide the undead: I can't sac' them and maybe I'll get more
> wraiths in the sanctum. V,Z,M

Why would you want wraiths? Unless you actually *want* them to touch you
to make your level lower, I see no use to them...

> 3. Reverse genocide: Tengi.

If you do, spell it correctly, or the game won't recognise it. The
plural of tengu is tengu. It's not Latin, but Japanese.

> I guess I could reverse genocide some nurses. I think each
> scroll gives you about ~60 hitpoints. I already expect to have
> 500 hitpoints for my ascension run, but I can see that having 1000+
> hitpoints could be fun. What's the most hitpoints anyone ever
> ascended with? 32767?

There is a maximum number of HP that nurses will give you. When you
reach that, nurses won't give you HP anymore.

> Can you ride a purple worm?

Don't know if you can. But I know that you *should* be able to, provided
you already are "skilled" or "expert".


--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:

> 18/** strength gives the same boni as 25 strength, hence gauntlets
> of power can be omitted if you have maximal strength.

Not if you're playing an orc. Their maximum strength is capped at 18/50.

Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Jakob Creutzig wrote:
>
>
>>18/** strength gives the same boni as 25 strength, hence gauntlets
>>of power can be omitted if you have maximal strength.
>
>
> Not if you're playing an orc. Their maximum strength is capped at 18/50.
>
> Boudewijn.
>

Erm. How does that even begin to make sense? I would expect orcs to be
stronger, not weaker.

 

[Sean]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

james wrote:

>>>L, without doubt. R, always bad news.
>
> I'd never genocide L's, unless I was one turn before death and that
> was the only way to survive. And eliminating R's might mean a cap on
> armor and weapons enchantment (if you can't disenchant, you might be
> stuck with stuff at +4 or +6).
>
> I've found that I can make a counter argument against genociding
> *anything*, except maybe, if it's early enough, "m". (Not joking).
>
> After a certain point, L's are just a free "create monster" source.
> And in my current game, since I've killed all the demon lords, I think
> L's are the only hope I have of summoning Demogorgon. (And my
> geno-less extinctionist nonwizard won't be complete without Demo).

This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone *wants* to meet the
big D in person.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <mCzDe.61448$Fe7.200576@news000.worldonline.dk>,
Sean <sgegg@hotspammeallyouwantpop.com> wrote:
>This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone *wants* to meet the
>big D in person.

Wait, wait! I'm going to do an impression. Who am I?

"Well, then, you can hardly say you've completed the game. And you're a
lazy, awful person, utterly lacking in character, whose dog hates him,
and rightly so. People who don't want to meet the Big D make me sick.
If I met you on the street, I would spit on you. And then pee on you.
And then vomit on you. And then start over."

Adam

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Adam Thornton wrote:
> In article <mCzDe.61448$Fe7.200576@news000.worldonline.dk>,
> Sean <sgegg@hotspammeallyouwantpop.com> wrote:
>
>>This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone *wants* to meet the
>>big D in person.
>
>
> Wait, wait! I'm going to do an impression. Who am I?
>
> "Well, then, you can hardly say you've completed the game. And you're a
> lazy, awful person, utterly lacking in character, whose dog hates him,
> and rightly so. People who don't want to meet the Big D make me sick.
> If I met you on the street, I would spit on you. And then pee on you.
> And then vomit on you. And then start over."
>
> Adam
>

Xanthian?

(That was a joke, btw)

--
____ (__)
/ \ (oo) -Zarel
|Moo. > \/
\____/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1121895281.069308.125020@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Doug Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:
>That's my theory.

Another theory is, "Welcome to AD&D v1."

Adam

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

james wrote:
> If I found a blessed
> scroll of genocide in the first few turns, I might use it to eliminate
> mimics (yes, I'm totally serious).

I agree totally. Every mimic generated in a shop is one less item
generated on the shop floor. An item that might have been a magic
marker, stethoscope, scroll of ID, /oW...

On top of that, mimics are a general pain in the arse anyway. They've
claimed a great many of my low-level characters, and trying to
pussyfoot around them often complicates matters if you have some other
monster to deal with in a shop. This isn't enough on its own to justify
genociding them, but I consider it a bonus on top of the main reason in
the previous paragraph.

Oh, and they really annoy me when they pretend to be boulders in Soko.

 

[James]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <mCzDe.61448$Fe7.200576@news000.worldonline.dk>,
Sean <sgegg@hotspammeallyouwantpop.com> wrote:

>This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone *wants* to meet the
>big D in person.

Well, that was not my main point. I've decided over the years that
genoless conduct, on balance does not make the game more difficult.
That's a controversial view, I realize. But it might be worth trying
if you've never considered it.

As for Demogorgon, I'm still not certain that it's possible for him to
appear at all after the Demons are all killed (and I was not *trying* to
kill them.) On the other hand, I'm not at all ready to wake up the
wizard. This game is getting into the quarter million turns territory,
and I think I'm getting close to extincting all the Liches. No sign of
Demogorgon.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:

> Jakob Creutzig wrote:
>
> > 18/** strength gives the same boni as 25 strength, hence gauntlets
> > of power can be omitted if you have maximal strength.
>
> Not if you're playing an orc. Their maximum strength is capped at 18/50.

Same for gnomes, right. There it even makes sense.

Best,
Jakob