lawful loophole?

[ANON]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

After unfortunately killing two shopkeepers with my lawful samurai in a
heroic attempt to save them from their deadly gold, I still got a
four-leaf clover with my first sacrifice, and no indication whatsoever
that my god was displeased with me (other than the "You murderer!"
message and loss of telepathy). Can it be that letting the shopkeepers
attack me first somehow made my action excusable? Can it be that this
horrible bullshit actually worked?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

anon wrote:
> After unfortunately killing two shopkeepers with my lawful samurai in a
> heroic attempt to save them from their deadly gold, I still got a
> four-leaf clover with my first sacrifice, and no indication whatsoever
> that my god was displeased with me (other than the "You murderer!"
> message and loss of telepathy). Can it be that letting the shopkeepers
> attack me first somehow made my action excusable? Can it be that this
> horrible bullshit actually worked?

Well, if they attacked you first, they weren't peaceful. But what
exactly did you do to make them attack you?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

BManx wrote:

> anon wrote:
>> After unfortunately killing two shopkeepers with my lawful samurai in a
>> heroic attempt to save them from their deadly gold, I still got a
>> four-leaf clover with my first sacrifice, and no indication whatsoever
>> that my god was displeased with me (other than the "You murderer!"
>> message and loss of telepathy). Can it be that letting the shopkeepers
>> attack me first somehow made my action excusable? Can it be that this
>> horrible bullshit actually worked?
>
> Actually, killing peaceful humans never angers your god.

I don't remember whether it angers your god or not, but killing coaligned
priests will cause you to lose protection.

--
Benjamin Lewis

All what we got here is American made.
It's a little bit cheesy, but it's nicely displayed. -- FZ

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Magus Zeal" <maguszeal@gmail.com> wrote in news:1122143545.321824.261860
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> anon wrote:
>> After unfortunately killing two shopkeepers with my lawful samurai in a
>> heroic attempt to save them from their deadly gold, I still got a
>> four-leaf clover with my first sacrifice, and no indication whatsoever
>> that my god was displeased with me (other than the "You murderer!"
>> message and loss of telepathy). Can it be that letting the shopkeepers
>> attack me first somehow made my action excusable? Can it be that this
>> horrible bullshit actually worked?
>
> Well, if they attacked you first, they weren't peaceful. But what
> exactly did you do to make them attack you?

Read a scroll of untaming?


--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

anon wrote:
> After unfortunately killing two shopkeepers with my lawful samurai in a
> heroic attempt to save them from their deadly gold, I still got a
> four-leaf clover with my first sacrifice, and no indication whatsoever
> that my god was displeased with me (other than the "You murderer!"
> message and loss of telepathy). Can it be that letting the shopkeepers
> attack me first somehow made my action excusable? Can it be that this
> horrible bullshit actually worked?

Actually, killing peaceful humans never angers your god.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> After unfortunately killing two shopkeepers with my lawful samurai in a
> heroic attempt to save them from their deadly gold, I still got a
> four-leaf clover with my first sacrifice, and no indication whatsoever
> that my god was displeased with me (other than the "You murderer!"
> message and loss of telepathy). Can it be that letting the shopkeepers
> attack me first somehow made my action excusable? Can it be that this
> horrible bullshit actually worked?

Your alignment was probably high enough so that killing those shk didn't get you
too low.
At the end of the game, my alignment is usually somewhere in the 200-300 area.
If you kill a few peacefuls then, your god will draw a blind eye to it.

Greetings,
Benjamin

--
The Nethack IdleRPG! Idle to your favorite Nethack messages!
http://pallas.crash-override.net/nethackidle/

 

[ANON]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> wrote:

> > Well, if they attacked you first, they weren't peaceful. But what
> > exactly did you do to make them attack you?

> Read a scroll of untaming?

No, just kick down their door and refuse to pay for the damage. But I
guess there's no need for me to invent an excuse for murder anymore,
since I realize now that the whole alignment system is pretty much a
joke.

ObYASD: My samurai ended up dying from an arch-lich's touch of death at
the Castle, as I learned the hard way that mithril + amulet of
reflection doesn't give any magic resistance whatsoever.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

anon <anon@anon.com> writes:

> After unfortunately killing two shopkeepers with my lawful samurai in a
> heroic attempt to save them from their deadly gold, I still got a
> four-leaf clover with my first sacrifice, and no indication whatsoever
> that my god was displeased with me (other than the "You murderer!"
> message and loss of telepathy).

Your god gets displeased only by prayer. Your alignment
will have taken a few hits, but if it was high enough,
this barely counts.

Best,
Jakob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In news:<apy87wwvdk.fsf@fb04349.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>, Jakob
Creutzig <creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> says...
> anon <anon@anon.com> writes:
> > After unfortunately killing two shopkeepers with my lawful samurai in a
> > heroic attempt to save them from their deadly gold, I still got a
> > four-leaf clover with my first sacrifice, and no indication whatsoever
> > that my god was displeased with me (other than the "You murderer!"
> > message and loss of telepathy).
> Your god gets displeased only by prayer.

This is not true.

Other god-angering acts:
* same-race sacrifice by non-chaotics
* failing an attempted self-conversion
* sacrificing at an altar of Moloch
* offering a known fake AoY
* offering a co-aligned unicorn on co-aligned altar
* displacing your pet into water (IIRC?)

> Your alignment will have taken a few hits, but if it was high enough,
> this barely counts.

Some luck loss also IIRC.

/Kristoffer

--
This cookie has a scrap of paper inside. It reads:
Ab rnfl svtugvat jvgu n urnil ybnq!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

What level was your samurai when he got to the castle? I'm confused to
how random generation works on special levels. Like I've had
characters around XL8 find vampire lords on the undead version of the
bottom of the gnomish mines, yet the mon2-343.txt appears to say this
shouldn't happen.

Similarily, mon2-343.txt appears to show arch-liches shouldn't show on
the castle level unless you are really high level, yet I think they are
showing up anyway.

The gazette shows that the undead version spawns random V and the
castle level can spawn random L. So I'm thinking that maybe if a
special level randomly picks from specific classes, it gets to ignore
the normal random generation rules?

 

[ANON]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chillynois@yahoo.com wrote:

> What level was your samurai when he got to the castle? I'm confused to
> how random generation works on special levels. Like I've had
> characters around XL8 find vampire lords on the undead version of the
> bottom of the gnomish mines, yet the mon2-343.txt appears to say this
> shouldn't happen.

> Similarily, mon2-343.txt appears to show arch-liches shouldn't show on
> the castle level unless you are really high level, yet I think they are
> showing up anyway.

> The gazette shows that the undead version spawns random V and the
> castle level can spawn random L. So I'm thinking that maybe if a
> special level randomly picks from specific classes, it gets to ignore
> the normal random generation rules?

That's interesting, my samurai was level 13 or 14, and the castle was
definitely before level 30, so if I've interpreted the spoiler
correctly, you're right that there's shouldn't have been an arch-lich on
that level (as the arch-lich's difficulty level is 29, and my average
level was at most 22). It was still a stupid death, though, because I
even had a wand of cancellation with one charge left, and elected not to
use it on the arch-lich. A fatal combination of overconfidence and not
thinking.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> writes:

> Read a scroll of untaming?

YM a cursed scroll of taming.

--
Jukka Lahtinen

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

anon wrote:
>
> After unfortunately killing two shopkeepers with my lawful samurai in a
> heroic attempt to save them from their deadly gold

What can I say. You read in their wills that you would get
the gold if they died. And you just *happened* to trip
while wielding, uhm, a spell of magic missile, and you
just *happened* to swing your blessed rustproof +6 Excalibur
in the wrong direction and those shopkeepers just *happened*
to die. The fact that it happened the same way twice, hey,
wierd coincidences happen in Nethack, right?

> I still got a
> four-leaf clover with my first sacrifice, and no indication whatsoever
> that my god was displeased with me (other than the "You murderer!"
> message and loss of telepathy).

You lost telepathy (valuable but replacable) and also 2
points of luck (not even an issue if carrying a luckstone
and you're patient).

> Can it be that letting the shopkeepers
> attack me first somehow made my action excusable?

No, not any more than my story above is excusable. You
only lost 2 luck points and the stone gives 3. If you
killed them both within a few turns, you must have waited
several hundred turns for the total of 4 points of lost
luck to tempter down to 3 points for a current value of
0 or better.

> Can it be that this horrible bullshit actually worked?

Yup. It depended on the luckstone, on enough time passing
between the killings and the #offer.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chillynois@yahoo.com writes:
> The gazette shows that the undead version spawns random V and the
> castle level can spawn random L. So I'm thinking that maybe if a
> special level randomly picks from specific classes, it gets to ignore
> the normal random generation rules?

Yes.

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Hello. Well, that was the sound of Roger's Wah-Wah Rabbits, you heard :
: them eating endives there, that's very cheap at this time of the year. :
: [...] But now we're going to talk about shirts." -- Bonzo Dog Band :

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > You lost telepathy (valuable but replacable) and also 2
> > points of luck (not even an issue if carrying a luckstone
> > and you're patient).
>
> If the killing lowered your luck from, say, 8 to 6, no luckstone will
> fix that, even blessed, no matter your patience.

As long as luck is zero or positive I don't see it as
a problem, so that's my bias.

The OP mentioned seeing a clover on his *first* sac.
I don't know of many ways to get luck over 3 without
an altar.

> A cursed or uncursed luckstone will even keep it from going up if your
> luck had become negative (from, say, 0 to -2).

Thanks for the correction. I should write b/u luckstone
not "a" luckstone.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kristoffer Björkman <kristoffer.bjorkman@frontnet.org> writes:

> In news:<apy87wwvdk.fsf@fb04349.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>, Jakob
> Creutzig <creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> says...
> > anon <anon@anon.com> writes:
> > > After unfortunately killing two shopkeepers with my lawful samurai in a
> > > heroic attempt to save them from their deadly gold, I still got a
> > > four-leaf clover with my first sacrifice, and no indication whatsoever
> > > that my god was displeased with me (other than the "You murderer!"
> > > message and loss of telepathy).
> > Your god gets displeased only by prayer.
>
> This is not true.
>
> Other god-angering acts:
> * same-race sacrifice by non-chaotics
> * failing an attempted self-conversion
> * sacrificing at an altar of Moloch
> * offering a known fake AoY
> * offering a co-aligned unicorn on co-aligned altar

Of course. I apologize; those are complete no-nos for me,
so I didn't even consider them.

Best,
Jakob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In news:<ap64uzw4jx.fsf@fb04349.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>, Jakob
Creutzig <creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> says...
> Kristoffer Björkman <kristoffer.bjorkman@frontnet.org> writes:
> > In news:<apy87wwvdk.fsf@fb04349.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>, Jakob
> > Creutzig <creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> says...
> > > anon <anon@anon.com> writes:
> > > > After unfortunately killing two shopkeepers with my lawful samurai in a
> > > > heroic attempt to save them from their deadly gold, I still got a
> > > > four-leaf clover with my first sacrifice, and no indication whatsoever
> > > > that my god was displeased with me (other than the "You murderer!"
> > > > message and loss of telepathy).
> > > Your god gets displeased only by prayer.
> > This is not true.
> > Other god-angering acts:
> > * same-race sacrifice by non-chaotics
> > * failing an attempted self-conversion
> > * sacrificing at an altar of Moloch
> > * offering a known fake AoY
> > * offering a co-aligned unicorn on co-aligned altar
> Of course. I apologize; those are complete no-nos for me,
> so I didn't even consider them.

Heh. I learnt two of those (#1 & #3) the hard way, the other ones have
been spoil-fed to me.

/Kristoffer

--
This cookie has a scrap of paper inside. It reads:
Xvyy n havpbea bs lbhe pbybe naq lbh xvyy lbhe yhpx.

 

[seraphim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chillynois@yahoo.com wrote in news:1122263615.850394.11150
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> What level was your samurai when he got to the castle? I'm confused to
> how random generation works on special levels. Like I've had
> characters around XL8 find vampire lords on the undead version of the
> bottom of the gnomish mines, yet the mon2-343.txt appears to say this
> shouldn't happen.
>
> Similarily, mon2-343.txt appears to show arch-liches shouldn't show on
> the castle level unless you are really high level, yet I think they are
> showing up anyway.

Those arn't randomly generated. You are guarenteed to get Liches in the
castle and Vampires in the maze version of mines-end. The rules the game
uses for generating a monster of a specific class are different then the
rules for random generation.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Doug Freyburger wrote:

> You lost telepathy (valuable but replacable) and also 2
> points of luck (not even an issue if carrying a luckstone
> and you're patient).

If the killing lowered your luck from, say, 8 to 6, no luckstone will
fix that, even blessed, no matter your patience.

A cursed or uncursed luckstone will even keep it from going up if your
luck had become negative (from, say, 0 to -2).

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me

 

[ANON]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Doug Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:

> What can I say. You read in their wills that you would get
> the gold if they died. And you just *happened* to trip
> while wielding, uhm, a spell of magic missile, and you
> just *happened* to swing your blessed rustproof +6 Excalibur
> in the wrong direction and those shopkeepers just *happened*
> to die. The fact that it happened the same way twice, hey,
> wierd coincidences happen in Nethack, right?

How dare you. I risked my life to save these shopkeepers from their
gold, which I honestly believed was a deadly mimic. The very damage to
their door proves the desperate urgency of the situation in which I had
to act. Call me a murderer or a thief if you like, but I am NOT a liar.

> No, not any more than my story above is excusable. You
> only lost 2 luck points and the stone gives 3. If you
> killed them both within a few turns, you must have waited
> several hundred turns for the total of 4 points of lost
> luck to tempter down to 3 points for a current value of
> 0 or better.

Actually, wouldn't you need to drop the luckstone for your luck to go
back up naturally?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In news:<42e703e2$0$30707$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, anon
<anon@anon.com> says...
> Doug Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > No, not any more than my story above is excusable. You
> > only lost 2 luck points and the stone gives 3. If you
> > killed them both within a few turns, you must have waited
> > several hundred turns for the total of 4 points of lost
> > luck to tempter down to 3 points for a current value of
> > 0 or better.
> Actually, wouldn't you need to drop the luckstone for your luck to go
> back up naturally?

Only if it is uncursed or cursed. (Luckstones should be kept blessed.)

But then, unless your luck is negative it won't 'recover naturally'
under any circumstance. (And I assume luck is usually in the positive
for most characters.)

/Kristoffer

--
This cookie has a scrap of paper inside. It reads:
Gurl fnl gung lbh pbhyq snyy urnq bire urryf sbe na raretl ibegrk.