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New Event in May

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April 22, 2011 3:20:53 AM

Did anybody hear that Apple is preparing a big surprise in May sometime?

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April 22, 2011 9:29:54 PM

The only surprise to me is that people are willing to shell out so much cash for so little computer.
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April 23, 2011 3:02:49 AM

Why are you so negative about Apple?
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April 23, 2011 11:35:27 PM

Let me counts the ways...

1. Overpriced.
2. Overpriced.
3. Overpriced.

Not that they don't make pretty products... but form over function has never really been my thing. When I have to pay twice the price for half the hardware... I start questioning what I'm getting for my money. I can buy 17" + WinPC laptops starting under $1000.00. To buy a 17" MacBook Pro... it STARTS at $2199.00. Wow. For instance this Acer 18.1" with a Core 2 Duo processor, 4GB of RAM and BluRay playback capability was just over $1000. It also features discrete nVidia graphics (1GB 9600M GT).

The only thing I really like about the MacBook is the magnetic connector for the AC adapter. Unfortunately, that alone isn't worth the price premium for me. OS X is not even a factor, as the software I own is mostly for Windows.

The other thing is a complete lack of choice... Apple provides both the hardware an OS. While a lot of accessories are available from 3rd parties, you have to buy Apple's over-priced hardware if you want to run OS X. If Apple were really smart, they'd open up either their hardware or OS to other vendors which would make the prices cheaper for everyone... and break the monopoly.
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April 24, 2011 2:35:30 AM

Zoron said:
Let me counts the ways...

1. Overpriced.
2. Overpriced.
3. Overpriced.

Not that they don't make pretty products... but form over function has never really been my thing. When I have to pay twice the price for half the hardware... I start questioning what I'm getting for my money. I can buy 17" + WinPC laptops starting under $1000.00. To buy a 17" MacBook Pro... it STARTS at $2199.00. Wow. For instance this Acer 18.1" with a Core 2 Duo processor, 4GB of RAM and BluRay playback capability was just over $1000. It also features discrete nVidia graphics (1GB 9600M GT).

The only thing I really like about the MacBook is the magnetic connector for the AC adapter. Unfortunately, that alone isn't worth the price premium for me. OS X is not even a factor, as the software I own is mostly for Windows.

The other thing is a complete lack of choice... Apple provides both the hardware an OS. While a lot of accessories are available from 3rd parties, you have to buy Apple's over-priced hardware if you want to run OS X. If Apple were really smart, they'd open up either their hardware or OS to other vendors which would make the prices cheaper for everyone... and break the monopoly.
You are forgetting one thing their customer service is very good.HP,Acer,Lenovo, Asus stinks with their service.Speaking to chinese is not to good when they cannot understand you.You get what you pay for. Acer quality control stinks.
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April 24, 2011 4:10:16 AM

I never speak to anyone... and as far as customer service goes, I've heard horror stories about Apple as well. Since I can fix my own computer, Apple's customer service is also worthless to me. Even if it were #1, its still not worth almost twice the price of a comparable Win PC.

By the way... I also build my own desktops... I'll never tie myself to a single OEM (like Apple). Laptops are a different story, of course... but I'll always buy the best hardware I can get regardless of the manufacturer. My only consideration is price. An Apple would be a huge waste of money for me.
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April 24, 2011 6:54:23 AM

Should I have paid £900 or so for a MacBook rather than the £280 I paid for an eMachine's laptop because of better customer service? Tricky question, as I've never had a problem with my cheap laptop.

When I can buy a decent laptop plus a decent desktop for the price of either offering from Apple I know what choice I will continue to make.

But, I am a little puzzled about the number of problems the OP seems to have with his Apple; why seek help here rather than from Apple customer support?
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April 24, 2011 8:12:22 AM

Apple are rumoured to be planning a 10th anniversary event (20th-22nd May) for it's retail stores; there is also rumour about a major iMac refresh (maybe they'll combine the two?).
As always it's only rumour, and could turn to be something completely different.
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April 25, 2011 2:59:47 AM

Ijack said:
Should I have paid £900 or so for a MacBook rather than the £280 I paid for an eMachine's laptop because of better customer service? Tricky question, as I've never had a problem with my cheap laptop.

When I can buy a decent laptop plus a decent desktop for the price of either offering from Apple I know what choice I will continue to make.

But, I am a little puzzled about the number of problems the OP seems to have with his Apple; why seek help here rather than from Apple customer support?
Simple answer 2 heads are better than one.If you ridicule Apple why are you on this forum talking about Apple products?You get what you pay for in life.
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April 25, 2011 5:11:46 AM

musical marv said:
If you ridicule Apple why are you on this forum talking about Apple products?You get what you pay for in life.


Because we know the general apple user base (you seem to be included in this group). Most questions that people post in this forum can be answered with general knowledge :) 
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April 25, 2011 6:46:23 AM

musical marv said:
Simple answer 2 heads are better than one.If you ridicule Apple why are you on this forum talking about Apple products?You get what you pay for in life.

I neither ridicule nor worship Apple. I use PCs and a Mac (it was a present) and also OS X running on a PC. I post on these forums (all of them) to offer help, where I can, and opinions. If you want uncritical praise of Apple you would probably be better off on one of the specialist Mac sites.

If you wish to criticise those who give, as well as take, on these forums you would be well advised to partake in a little giving.
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April 26, 2011 3:25:30 AM

Ijack said:
I neither ridicule nor worship Apple. I use PCs and a Mac (it was a present) and also OS X running on a PC. I post on these forums (all of them) to offer help, where I can, and opinions. If you want uncritical praise of Apple you would probably be better off on one of the specialist Mac sites.

If you wish to criticise those who give, as well as take, on these forums you would be well advised to partake in a little giving.
The cliche is the truth hurts which I guess pertains to you.I belong to several sites which the members are not that sensitive what comments are made.
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April 26, 2011 5:36:36 AM

I don't ridicule Apple either... after all it's brilliant that a computer company can charge a hefty price premium for a product that is really no better than it's competition. I congratulate Mr. Jobs for getting so many people to drink the Kool-Aid.

Apple is a monopoly. Yet due to their tiny market share, the SEC doesn't seem to care. At least with Microsoft, you can install their OS on EVERYTHING... including Macs. (Though that is more than a complete waste of money). You can't have MacOS legally on anything but a Mac computer.

So, while people decry MS for being monopolistic, Apple gets a pass. Apple bends their customers over a barrel without so much as a reach-around and Apple lovers take it and ask for more. So, no, I can't criticize a company that makes people believe their computers are truly worth more than 2x + the price of comparable hardware from other vendors. Bravo Apple. Bravo. I do fault people for falling for it, however.
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April 27, 2011 3:08:19 AM

Zoron said:
I don't ridicule Apple either... after all it's brilliant that a computer company can charge a hefty price premium for a product that is really no better than it's competition. I congratulate Mr. Jobs for getting so many people to drink the Kool-Aid.

Apple is a monopoly. Yet due to their tiny market share, the SEC doesn't seem to care. At least with Microsoft, you can install their OS on EVERYTHING... including Macs. (Though that is more than a complete waste of money). You can't have MacOS legally on anything but a Mac computer.

So, while people decry MS for being monopolistic, Apple gets a pass. Apple bends their customers over a barrel without so much as a reach-around and Apple lovers take it and ask for more. So, no, I can't criticize a company that makes people believe their computers are truly worth more than 2x + the price of comparable hardware from other vendors. Bravo Apple. Bravo. I do fault people for falling for it, however.
What great computer do you own yourself? Apple is better than the other companies that pretend to have better quality control than say Acer or Lenovo which is mediocre.Microsoft stinks with their updates a lot and virus galore.Their pricing of their software is to expensive also.
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April 27, 2011 4:10:42 PM

musical marv said:
What great computer do you own yourself? Apple is better than the other companies that pretend to have better quality control than say Acer or Lenovo which is mediocre.Microsoft stinks with their updates a lot and virus galore.Their pricing of their software is to expensive also.


EDIT: FLAME ON

actually i find the quality of Lenovo to be good, and the current laptop i have is a compal (NBLB2, also has a better screen than the macs) which actually has a good build quality to it, and my desktops are all custom built which saves money even over OEM's like DELL let alone apple and their (IMO) crappy imacs and extreme over priced mac pros

microsoft being bad at updates, how about the security holes the OSX has that apple still hasn't fixed because they don't think they need to, and virus laden, really, you realize that OSX could have just as many but only has 10% market share so nobody does and as their market share increases you will see more

MS's software being expensive, lol, you realize you are paying upwards of 2x more for the same hardware so you can legally run OSX (which kind of defeats the purpose of having slightly cheaper software), not too mention a lot of paid software has open source software that is as good (sometimes better) than what you pay for, ie OpenOffice
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April 27, 2011 5:38:20 PM

Yes, Apple computers cost more than their PC counterparts. Some of that, in my opinion, is unjustified...but some of it is. I have used both in my job. In fact, I just got a 17" Macbook Pro. Here's some of why I was willing to pay more for a Mac:

* 2.3Ghz quadcore SandyBridge processor
* 1900x1200, accurate, Matt (non-glossy) display
* silent (until I unleash the the processor or GPU)
* aluminum unibody contstruction (build quality and durability are not irrelevant to me and I admit, I'm willing to pay more to get them, significantly more obviously)
* I have the option to very easily run Windows (either in a VM or as a dualboot)

I know Dell makes a workstation that can compete with its specs, the Precision Mobile Workstation 6500...but when I configured it as closely as possible to my MBP (Dell offers the i7-940XM as apposed to the i7 2635QM and the Dell offers professional graphics) the Dell costs MORE than my MBP @ $3,127 (on sale, $3,686 normally).
Now, that Dell has some things the MBP does not, ie., eSATA.

That Dell is the kind of machine the 17" MacBook Pro is meant to compete against, its a workstation...its not the $1,300 plastic Asus gaming laptop.

...and I'm pretty sure the MacBook weighs notably less (over 2lbs less) than the Dell and has significantly better battery life (7+ hours) than the Dell workstation.

I'm not saying the MacBooks are priced to be a great buy, or that they're the best choice for all, because we all know they're not. I'm just saying to compare them fairly to the machines to which they're meant to compete and not to cheapest plastic gaming machines you can find.

...just an opinion.


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April 27, 2011 10:48:50 PM

actually considering that the MBP doesn't use a mobile workstation GPU, it is more akin to the ASUS laptops than you think, or the MSI MS-16F2 (which with the same CPU, better GPU - GTX460m, 1080p 15.6" screen, less weight and 16GB of ram is $1900)

the Discrete GPU in the MBP is the Mobile Radeon 6750 which is not a workstation type card
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April 27, 2011 10:53:57 PM

mindless728 said:
actually considering that the MBP doesn't use a mobile workstation GPU, it is more akin to the ASUS laptops than you think, or the MSI MS-16F2 (which with the same CPU, better GPU - GTX460m, 1080p 15.6" screen, less weight and 16GB of ram is $1900)

the Discrete GPU in the MBP is the Mobile Radeon 6750 which is not a workstation type card


Aaaah, yeahs. 16GB of RAM...nice. ...but I wonder how the build quality of that MSI compares...and I've got a feeling its 15.6" display doesn't compare favorably to the 17" matt display.

Anywho, I still think of the MBP as more of a mobile workstation than your average laptop and even though I like it, its way overpriced.
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April 28, 2011 2:52:31 AM

halcyon said:
Aaaah, yeahs. 16GB of RAM...nice. ...but I wonder how the build quality of that MSI compares...and I've got a feeling its 15.6" display doesn't compare favorably to the 17" matt display.

Anywho, I still think of the MBP as more of a mobile workstation than your average laptop and even though I like it, its way overpriced.
That is your opinion I cannot fault you for saying what is on your mind.MSI to me is not that great of a machine.That is only my opinion. Marv
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April 28, 2011 9:29:36 AM

musical marv said:
That is your opinion I cannot fault you for saying what is on your mind.MSI to me is not that great of a machine.That is only my opinion. Marv


Marv, I've got to agree with you there...especially if MSI laptops have the same quality as MSI motherboards. One thing I can typically take for granted with Apple products is that they will have high quality.
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April 28, 2011 3:17:58 PM

musical marv said:
That is your opinion I cannot fault you for saying what is on your mind.MSI to me is not that great of a machine.That is only my opinion. Marv


halcyon said:
Aaaah, yeahs. 16GB of RAM...nice. ...but I wonder how the build quality of that MSI compares...and I've got a feeling its 15.6" display doesn't compare favorably to the 17" matt display.

Anywho, I still think of the MBP as more of a mobile workstation than your average laptop and even though I like it, its way overpriced.


what makes it more of a mobile workstation, different cpu, nope, more memory, nope (actually less), workstation gpu, nope, it is simply filled with the same kind of parts, general/gaming laptop hardware so there is nothing about it that makes it more of a mobile workstation than the 15.6" MSI, just larger and heavier, the MSI even has a second bay for another internal hard drive so that isn't even an issue either

and about the quality of MSI products, you know who makes the mac motherboards, Foxconn, which is IMO rated quite a bit lower than MSI if you want to go buy desktop motherboards

as for the screen, yeah you can't get it matte, but if it is anything like the screen on my compal laptop, it is better quality (in terms of color representation and sharpness) than the 15" MBP's, keep in mind the screen is 1920x1080 so it only loses a little more resolution compared to the 17" MBP (120 pixels in height), it is just smaller making it sharper and the laptop smaller and lighter

the only thing the MBP has is battery life which isn't even their once you spend the $100 to find a 12 cell battery for the MSI
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April 28, 2011 3:55:32 PM

Its not like the screens in laptops (any laptop) are good anyway. They are all only 6 bit TN panels (ie will not have accurate color). If you want accurate colors you must get a *expensive* IPS monitor.

The only thing I like about macs are MBP's aluminum case. This is a pretty nice feature and IMO is its only good selling point. However In the Desktop arena Lian-Li's make the Mac pros look like toys.
EDIT: I have also just learned that lenovo does not make any 17" Laptops :|
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April 28, 2011 9:46:10 PM

mindless728 said:
what makes it more of a mobile workstation, different cpu, nope, more memory, nope (actually less), workstation gpu, nope, it is simply filled with the same kind of parts, general/gaming laptop hardware so there is nothing about it that makes it more of a mobile workstation than the 15.6" MSI, just larger and heavier, the MSI even has a second bay for another internal hard drive so that isn't even an issue either

and about the quality of MSI products, you know who makes the mac motherboards, Foxconn, which is IMO rated quite a bit lower than MSI if you want to go buy desktop motherboards

as for the screen, yeah you can't get it matte, but if it is anything like the screen on my compal laptop, it is better quality (in terms of color representation and sharpness) than the 15" MBP's, keep in mind the screen is 1920x1080 so it only loses a little more resolution compared to the 17" MBP (120 pixels in height), it is just smaller making it sharper and the laptop smaller and lighter

the only thing the MBP has is battery life which isn't even their once you spend the $100 to find a 12 cell battery for the MSI


Mindless, I had not seen the MSI that you speak of until this thread but if its got a better screen (though smaller), better all-around performance, better build quality, is more durable (metal chassis), is thinner, and has better resale value the MBP then its a better PC laptop than a lot of others.

However, after looking at this: http://www.rkcomputer.net/rkcnotebooks/index.php?l=prod... ...I prefer the MBP, especially from a design standpoint. I guess its just personal pref.



I guess I just like Apple's design and build quality.
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April 29, 2011 12:44:25 AM

skittle said:
Its not like the screens in laptops (any laptop) are good anyway. They are all only 6 bit TN panels (ie will not have accurate color). If you want accurate colors you must get a *expensive* IPS monitor.

The only thing I like about macs are MBP's aluminum case. This is a pretty nice feature and IMO is its only good selling point. However In the Desktop arena Lian-Li's make the Mac pros look like toys.
EDIT: I have also just learned that lenovo does not make any 17" Laptops :|


While I appreciate Lian Li and have had several of their more expensive chassis' I have not seen any that make the Mac Pro's case look like a toy. The gauge of the aluminum on that Lian Li chooses to use is much thinner. ...but Lian Li does make some elegant cases...good stuff.

The Mac Pro's case is serious business though. I have one at home and one at work and they're not in way toy-like. ...especially my Pro at home. :) 
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April 29, 2011 1:06:11 AM

I'm not saying that their build quality is inferior... all I'm saying is that it isn't worth the amount of money they want. The hardware certainly isn't anything special; it's no different than many Wintel PCs. I'm sorry... but aluminum casing isn't worth an additional $1000 or more to me. It certainly feels solid and looks pretty... but again, I've never been one for form over function.

I don't mind paying a little more for something that's worth it... but when the price is doubled or more... then like I said before, I seriously have to question if what I'm getting is truly worth that much money. I think most Apple users should start questioning that as well... rather than making excuses for it. Perhaps their market share would grow. They would also seem a little less "elitist" in my view.
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April 29, 2011 1:34:53 AM

Zoron said:
I'm not saying that their build quality is inferior... all I'm saying is that it isn't worth the amount of money they want. The hardware certainly isn't anything special; it's no different than many Wintel PCs. I'm sorry... but aluminum casing isn't worth an additional $1000 or more to me. It certainly feels solid and looks pretty... but again, I've never been one for form over function.

I don't mind paying a little more for something that's worth it... but when the price is doubled or more... then like I said before, I seriously have to question if what I'm getting is truly worth that much money. I think most Apple users should start questioning that as well... rather than making excuses for it. Perhaps their market share would grow. They would also seem a little less "elitist" in my view.


I like my Mac buts I make a living supporting Windows. I've built more computers than I can remember. The Macs, for me, represent a nice change, and, as I noted before, I enjoy their build quality, OS X, and that I can easily run Ubunto, and all versions of Windows via VM or bootcamp.

Its easier for me to put my 17" MBP in my backpack than it would be for many others 17"-screened computers, its lighter and slimmer. That's just real.

...but again, I've been using both PCs and Macs for a long time, and next time I do a revamp of my systems I might choose to build again (been looking to build a nice liquid-cooled rig), but I'm glad I chose to get a Mac Pro and a MacBook Pro this time. They weren't free but they offer what I was looking for and I enjoy them. ...and the wife and kids enjoy their Macs as well (and I get to do a little less troubleshooting at home). I like OS X and I like that my machines are quiet and sturdy. Could I have paid less? Yes. ...but I could be driving a Ford too, I just chose not to this go-round.
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April 29, 2011 2:57:40 AM

Best answer selected by musical marv.
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