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How to handle Plane of Water?

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Anonymous
August 2, 2005 1:38:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I'm about to embark upon my Ascension run and I'm really worried about the
Plane of Water. I'm doing wishless, genoless, polyselfless, and
polyitemless. I haven't yet found an Oilskin Cloak of Amulet of Magical
Breathing. So how am I going to handle the nasties on the Plane of Water?

--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris

More about : handle plane water

Anonymous
August 2, 2005 2:05:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:

> I'm about to embark upon my Ascension run and I'm really worried about
> the Plane of Water. I'm doing wishless, genoless, polyselfless, and
> polyitemless. I haven't yet found an Oilskin Cloak of Amulet of Magical
> Breathing. So how am I going to handle the nasties on the Plane of
> Water?

Just make sure you're carrying at least one /oTeleport, and watch the
messages carefully. If you find any grease, that could add some more
redundancy.

In nearly every single one of my ascensions (I think about 15), I've done
Water with eels not genocided, and not bothered with an oilskin clock or
"oMB.

--
Benjamin Lewis

A small, but vocal, contingent even argues that tin is superior, but they
are held by most to be the lunatic fringe of Foil Deflector Beanie science.
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 2:05:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 22:05:00 GMT, Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@alumni.sfu.ca> wrote:

>Cyde Weys wrote:
>
>> I'm about to embark upon my Ascension run and I'm really worried about
>> the Plane of Water. I'm doing wishless, genoless, polyselfless, and
>> polyitemless. I haven't yet found an Oilskin Cloak of Amulet of Magical
>> Breathing. So how am I going to handle the nasties on the Plane of
>> Water?
>
>Just make sure you're carrying at least one /oTeleport, and watch the
>messages carefully. If you find any grease, that could add some more
>redundancy.

Spell of teleport away should work as well. I can testify that
Benjamin's advice is a 100% sure method of dealing with being enwrapped.
(The spell of finger of death at 0% failure with plenty of mana will
also work.)


It looks like the chance of a wrapping attempt succeeding are
dependent only on the to-hit chance of the monster. So the lower
the AC the better.



The following suggestions are UNTESTED.

>
>In nearly every single one of my ascensions (I think about 15), I've done
>Water with eels not genocided, and not bothered with an oilskin clock or
>"oMB.


Cancellation removes monsters' ability to enwrap you. ';'
have no magic resistance so maybe it's a sure thing, without having
to burn a wand of teleport charge. Name ('C') the monster before
you zap it so you know it's been canceled.

Of course, if you miss, you're in trouble. Can you miss?
And how would you know? If you zap a monster with a wand of
cancellation and it resists, you get a message. If you miss,
there may not be any message.

I know I've missed Rodney with a wand of death many times.
Others have posted of the same problem. Whether that carries
over to wands of cancellation I don't know.

Spell of cancellation might work as well.


If you do get wrapped up by an ';' with more than one of them
next to you, the "/" command will tell you which one it is in the
monster's description: "(holding you)".



Possible alternative tactic: write a scroll of scare monster
and bless it. Rebless it after each use and it should last
forever. Wonder if it would work when levitating over water?

What happens when you try to grease a scroll?

Spell of cause fear might work as well. Since ';' have no
magic resistance I *guess* they might not be able to resist it.
Here's your chance to find out :-).

Cloak of displacement should be helpful.

I've found that being invisible and wearing a ring of conflict
is very helpful. Might cause problems if you accidentally hit
the portal before removing the ring.

Spells/scrolls of charm monster should probably be tried in
advance.

From:
<http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/mon1-343.txt&gt;

SPECIES LEV SPD AC MR RESISTS ATTACKS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~

; jellyfish 3 3 6 0 P 3d3P
; piranha 5 12 4 0 2d6
; shark 7 12 2 0 5d6
; giant eel 5 9 -1 0 3d6 0d0w
; electric eel 7 10 -3 0 E 4d6E 0d0w
; kraken 20 3 6 0 2d4 2d4 H2d6w 5d4

Looks like spell/wand of slow monster isn't worth trying.
Spell/wand of sleep might work pre-emptively. (Enchantment
spells seem to be the most neglected of spells.)



But Benjamin's advice is the only way I've actually used to
escape sea monsters holding me. I'd guess you'd want to examine
nearby ';' to see which ones are eels/kraken. That way you won't
run into a kraken trying to avoid a jelly fish.

Jove
Related resources
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 2:15:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> wrote:

> I'm about to embark upon my Ascension run and I'm really worried about the
> Plane of Water. I'm doing wishless, genoless, polyselfless, and
> polyitemless. I haven't yet found an Oilskin Cloak of Amulet of Magical
> Breathing. So how am I going to handle the nasties on the Plane of Water?

You genocide couatls, obviously.

Richard
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 4:04:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Cyde Weys wrote:

> I'm about to embark upon my Ascension run and I'm really worried about the
> Plane of Water. I'm doing wishless, genoless, polyselfless, and
> polyitemless. I haven't yet found an Oilskin Cloak of Amulet of Magical
> Breathing. So how am I going to handle the nasties on the Plane of Water?

Try to stay in the middle of the bubbles and not fight. Use wands of
teleport/death to quickly deal with the eels. Cast enough creat monsters
on watery levels (Medusa) to extinct ; (this would be tedious). Reverse
geno until they are extinct (this does not break genoless).

--
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

Adresse mail plus valide à partir de septembre 2005.
Utiliser l'adresse de redirection permanente :
Jean-Yves.Moyen `at` ens-lyon.org
August 2, 2005 6:21:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym <moyen@loria.fr> wrote in
news:p ine.LNX.4.51.0508012356210.7834@hagen.loria.fr:

> Cast enough creat
> monsters on watery levels (Medusa) to extinct ; (this would be
> tedious).

AFAIK you can't create a ; with a spell of create monster, and they can't
be extincted.
August 2, 2005 9:34:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <42ee9de1.21884687@news.xs4all.nl>,
Richard Bos <rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl> wrote:
>
>
>Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> wrote:
>
>> I'm about to embark upon my Ascension run and I'm really worried about the
>> Plane of Water. I'm doing wishless, genoless, polyselfless, and
>> polyitemless. I haven't yet found an Oilskin Cloak of Amulet of Magical
>> Breathing. So how am I going to handle the nasties on the Plane of Water?
>
>You genocide couatls, obviously.

How is that an obvious strategy for a genoless game?
August 2, 2005 10:35:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

fishbowl@conservatory.com (james) wrote in
news:D BDHe.30160$bp.22402@fed1read03:

> Richard Bos <rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl> wrote:
>
>>Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm about to embark upon my Ascension run and I'm really worried
>>> about the Plane of Water. I'm doing wishless, genoless,
>>> polyselfless, and polyitemless. I haven't yet found an Oilskin
>>> Cloak of Amulet of Magical Breathing. So how am I going to handle
>>> the nasties on the Plane of Water?
>>
>>You genocide couatls, obviously.
>
> How is that an obvious strategy for a genoless game?

How is it an obvious strategy for any game?
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 10:44:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

james wrote:
> In article <42ee9de1.21884687@news.xs4all.nl>,
> Richard Bos <rlb@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl> wrote:
>
>>
>>Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm about to embark upon my Ascension run and I'm really worried about the
>>>Plane of Water. I'm doing wishless, genoless, polyselfless, and
>>>polyitemless. I haven't yet found an Oilskin Cloak of Amulet of Magical
>>>Breathing. So how am I going to handle the nasties on the Plane of Water?
>>
>>You genocide couatls, obviously.
>
>
> How is that an obvious strategy for a genoless game?

Well, since you can't actually *do* it, it's a pretty good
genocide selection for a genoless character...

--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 11:07:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:
> I'm about to embark upon my Ascension run and I'm really worried about the
> Plane of Water. I'm doing wishless, genoless, polyselfless, and
> polyitemless. I haven't yet found an Oilskin Cloak of Amulet of Magical
> Breathing. So how am I going to handle the nasties on the Plane of Water?
>
I've crossed the Plane of Water fourteen times (the first of
those went down to Famine... the subsequent thirteen took their seats in
the demigods' bar). I've never in my life genocided ;. I've never worn
an oilskin cloak in the Planes (or for more than long enough to find a
better cloak, for that matter). I've never been grabbed by a ; on Water.

My method of dealing with ;s on Water has always been staying
away from the edges of the bubbles, and if a ; comes next to me anyway,
clobbering the holy living bejeezus out of it before it can so much as
twitch. Given very fast speed, an AC usually in the -30s, and a heavily
enchanted weapon (or two), I can typically kill even krakens before they
land a hit.

I do generally grease my cloak (and helm, if I haven't nuked the
mind flayers), but it's never been necessary. It's helped against
owlbears and pit fiends and the like, but never against ;s.

--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 3:34:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym wrote:

> Cast enough creat
> monsters on watery levels (Medusa) to extinct ; (this would be
> tedious).

I don't think this works. I believe create monster respects random
monster creation, and no ; are ever randomly created after level
generation (if you kill all ; on Medusa, no more will appear).

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 3:51:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

John Campbell wrote on Tue, 02 Aug 2005 07:07:36 GMT:

> I've crossed the Plane of Water fourteen times
> I've never in my life genocided ;.

> My method of dealing with ;s on Water has always been staying
> away from the edges of the bubbles, and if a ; comes next to me anyway,
> clobbering the holy living bejeezus out of it

I've crossed the Plane of water many times also. My strategy is to
genocide ;, then levitate over the water directly to the portal without
worrying about monsters at all (unless a couatl shows up).

If I didn't genocide ;, I would certainly wear conflict, and hope the
monsters were too busy with each other to drown me. In fact, conflict on
the Planes is a good idea regardless of what other choices you make.


--
"Ruleless 'law' will be a political weapon and control of the
judiciary will therefore be a political prize. 'Democracy' will
consist of the chaotic struggle to influence decision makers who are
not responsive to elections." -- Robert Bork
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 4:22:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Seraphim wrote:

> Jym <moyen@loria.fr> wrote in
> news:p ine.LNX.4.51.0508012356210.7834@hagen.loria.fr:
>
> > Cast enough creat
> > monsters on watery levels (Medusa) to extinct ; (this would be
> > tedious).
>
> AFAIK you can't create a ; with a spell of create monster, and they can't
> be extincted.


You're right about creation (from the extinctionnist FAQ : "There is oddly
a bit of code in Nethack that attempts to create water monsters when you
are standing in water. However, this never happens because water monsters
are never randomly generated and thus will never be created.")

But I think they can be extinct. So that only leave reverse genociding
enough of them.

--
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

Adresse mail plus valide à partir de septembre 2005.
Utiliser l'adresse de redirection permanente :
Jean-Yves.Moyen `at` ens-lyon.org
August 2, 2005 4:22:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym <moyen@loria.fr> wrote in
news:p ine.LNX.4.51.0508021219450.24474@hagen.loria.fr:

> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Seraphim wrote:
>
>> Jym <moyen@loria.fr> wrote in
>> news:p ine.LNX.4.51.0508012356210.7834@hagen.loria.fr:
>>
>> > Cast enough creat
>> > monsters on watery levels (Medusa) to extinct ; (this would be
>> > tedious).
>>
>> AFAIK you can't create a ; with a spell of create monster, and they
>> can't be extincted.
>
> You're right about creation (from the extinctionnist FAQ : "There is
> oddly a bit of code in Nethack that attempts to create water
> monsters when you are standing in water. However, this never happens
> because water monsters are never randomly generated and thus will
> never be created.")
>
> But I think they can be extinct. So that only leave reverse
> genociding enough of them.

Why would you think that? The same spoiler that you quotes includes all
the ; monsters under the "TYPE 3: Non-extinctable but genocidable"
table.
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 9:15:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu>:
>I'm about to embark upon my Ascension run and I'm really worried about the
>Plane of Water. I'm doing wishless, genoless, polyselfless, and
>polyitemless. I haven't yet found an Oilskin Cloak of Amulet of Magical
>Breathing. So how am I going to handle the nasties on the Plane of Water?

Levitate, giving you the whole level to maneuver in, and try to have
temporary speed in order to be very fast. You can then easily outmaneuver
eels.

A greased cloak helps; a WoTele provides an easy get-out-of-jail-free if
you check the messages.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Monday, July.
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 2:41:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jym wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Seraphim wrote:
>
>>Jym <moyen@loria.fr> wrote in
>>news:p ine.LNX.4.51.0508012356210.7834@hagen.loria.fr:
>>
>>>Cast enough creat
>>>monsters on watery levels (Medusa) to extinct ; (this would be
>>>tedious).
>>
>>AFAIK you can't create a ; with a spell of create monster, and they can't
>>be extincted.
>
> You're right about creation (from the extinctionnist FAQ : "There is oddly
> a bit of code in Nethack that attempts to create water monsters when you
> are standing in water. However, this never happens because water monsters
> are never randomly generated and thus will never be created.")
>
> But I think they can be extinct. So that only leave reverse genociding
> enough of them.

The same spoiler says specific monsters on special levels don't respect
extinction. So you'll still be left with all the eels and krakens that
are explicitly created.
!