Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

YASD - my "good" Healer

Last response: in Video Games
Share
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 4, 2005 4:19:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Ugh, this one was really bad. I think it's self-explanatory ...

CydeWeys the Medica ossium St:25 Dx:18 Co:18 In:18 Wi:22 Ch:18 Neutral
Dlvl:45 $:2419 HP:248(248) Pw:126(155) AC:-40 Exp:14 T:51858 Satiated


Voluntary challenges
You genocided 5 types of monsters
You never polymorphed an object
You changed form 1 time
You used no wishes

(Wishless! And check out my equipment!)

Goodbye CydeWeys the Healer...
You choked in Gehennom on dungeon level 45 with 1013963 points,
and 17684 pieces of gold, after 51858 moves.
Killer: mind flayer corpse
You were level 14 with a maximum of 248 hit points when you choked.

Lesson learned AGAIN ... never eat when satiated :-(
(I lost a really promising valkyrie a long time ago due to choking on a
non-essential lizard corpse, now I have to relearn that lesson.)

Ugh, I'm tired of healers for now. I'll try knights next.


Your inventory
Amulets
G - an uncursed amulet of reflection (being worn)
Weapons
J - the blessed +6 Staff of Aesculapius (weapon in hands)
Armor
n - a blessed +4 gray dragon scale mail (being worn)
L - a blessed +4 robe (being worn)
M - a blessed +5 pair of speed boots named S6 S22 (being worn)
N - a blessed rustproof +4 helm of brilliance (being worn)
O - a blessed +5 Hawaiian shirt (being worn)
R - a blessed rustproof +4 pair of gauntlets of power (being worn)
Comestibles
W - 3 uncursed lizard corpses
Y - an uncursed tripe ration
Rings
b - an uncursed ring of conflict
j - an uncursed ring of free action (on right hand)
p - an uncursed +4 ring of increase damage (on left hand)
t - an uncursed ring of levitation
Wands
i - a wand of cold (0:7)
Tools
a - a blessed bag of holding
c - an uncursed stethoscope
h - a blessed +0 unicorn horn
k - an uncursed skeleton key
s - an uncursed bugle
u - an uncursed oilskin sack named Cancellation
w - a blessed tinning kit (0:24)
B - an uncursed pair of lenses
H - an uncursed towel
U - the Bell of Opening (0:3)
Gems
d - an uncursed black opal
m - a blessed touchstone
r - a blessed luckstone

Contents of the bag of holding:
15265 gold pieces
an uncursed amulet of life saving
an uncursed amulet of ESP
the +0 Frost Brand
the cursed -1 Grimtooth
the blessed rustproof +6 Mjollnir
a +1 silver saber
a blessed +2 pair of water walking boots
an uncursed +0 oilskin cloak
a blessed +4 shield of reflection
a blessed +5 cloak of magic resistance
a blessed tin of wizard meat
a blessed tin of knight meat
a blessed tin of human meat
a blessed tin of valkyrie meat
a blessed tin of samurai meat
a blessed tin of ranger meat
a blessed tin of barbarian meat
2 blessed tins of tourist meat
a blessed tin of rogue meat
a blessed tin of Cyclops meat
3 uncursed K-rations
6 uncursed lembas wafers
2 uncursed fortune cookies
2 uncursed tripe rations
an uncursed clove of garlic
3 uncursed scrolls of blank paper
a cursed scroll of remove curse
an uncursed scroll of charging
an uncursed scroll of stinking cloud
an uncursed scroll of identify
an uncursed scroll of enchant armor
an uncursed spellbook of cone of cold
an uncursed spellbook of magic missile
a cursed potion of full healing
a blessed potion of restore ability
a blessed potion of object detection
a blessed potion of healing
8 potions of holy water
an uncursed potion of speed
an uncursed potion of healing
7 uncursed potions of water
2 uncursed diluted potions of full healing
an uncursed potion of gain level
a blessed potion of extra healing
3 uncursed potions of extra healing
3 uncursed potions of gain energy
an uncursed ring of teleportation
an uncursed ring of slow digestion
an uncursed ring of searching
an uncursed ring of polymorph control
an uncursed -2 ring of increase accuracy
an uncursed ring of protection from shape changers
an uncursed ring of regeneration
an uncursed ring of stealth
a wand of death (0:1)
a wand of enlightenment (0:15)
a wand of secret door detection (0:15)
a wand of cold (0:8)
a wand of undead turning (0:4)
a wand of magic missile (0:6)
a wand of magic missile (0:6)
a wand of digging (0:8)
a wand of digging (0:4)
a wand of cold (0:3)
a wand of wishing (0:3)
a wand of magic missile (0:2)
a wand of magic missile (0:0)
a wand of probing (0:7)
a wand of undead turning (0:4)
a wand of undead turning (0:3)
a wand of polymorph (0:6)
a wand of digging (0:4)
a wand of teleportation (0:3)
a wand of undead turning (0:4)
a wand of teleportation (0:6)
a wand of teleportation (0:5)
a blessed magic marker (1:3)
a blessed magic marker (1:4)
a blessed magic marker (1:2)
a blessed magic marker (1:0)
an uncursed magic whistle
12 uncursed wax candles
2 uncursed dilithium crystals
4 uncursed turquoise stones
3 uncursed topaz stones
4 uncursed amethyst stones
3 uncursed obsidian stones
an uncursed aquamarine stone
2 uncursed citrine stones
3 uncursed sapphires
7 uncursed black opals
2 uncursed chrysoberyl stones
2 uncursed jasper stones
10 uncursed rubies
3 uncursed diamonds
8 uncursed emeralds
an uncursed jet stone
3 uncursed luckstones

Contents of the oilskin sack named Cancellation:
a wand of cancellation (0:8)
a wand of cancellation (0:5)
a wand of cancellation (0:5)
a wand of cancellation (0:8)

Final attributes
You were the Envoy of Balance
You were piously aligned
You were fire resistant
You were cold resistant
You were sleep resistant
You were disintegration-resistant
You were shock resistant
You were poison resistant
You were level-drain resistant
You were magic-protected
You saw invisible
You were telepathic
You had infravision
You were invisible to others
You were stealthy
You had teleport control
You had a +4 damage bonus
You regenerated
You were protected
You were very fast
You had reflection
You had free action
You were extremely lucky (13)
You had extra luck
Good luck did not time out for you
You are dead

Spells known in the end
Name Level Category Fail
a - extra healing 3* healing 0%
b - create monster 2 clerical 0%
c - stone to flesh 3* healing 0%
d - wizard lock 2* matter 0%
e - drain life 2 attack 0%
f - sleep 1 enchantment 0%
g - knock 1* matter 0%
h - detect food 2* divination 0%
i - detect monsters 1 divination 0%
j - identify 3 divination 25%
k - healing 1* healing 0%
l - detect unseen 3 divination 25%
m - levitation 4 escape 57%
n - remove curse 3 clerical 12%
o - fireball 4 attack 57%
p - jumping 1 escape 0%
q - teleport away 6 escape 99%
r - cone of cold 4 attack 57%
s - magic missile 2 attack 0%
t - detect treasure 4 divination 57%

Vanquished creatures
Baalzebub
Orcus
Juiblex
a mastodon (2 created)
Medusa
a kraken (7 created)
The Cyclops
2 purple worms (3 created)
4 gray dragons
6 silver dragons (3 created)
4 red dragons (6 created)
3 white dragons
an orange dragon (2 created)
2 black dragons
a blue dragon (3 created)
8 green dragons (10 created)
6 yellow dragons
6 minotaurs (11 created)
2 jabberwocks (5 created)
3 baluchitheria
a stone golem (2 created)
2 master mind flayers (0 created)
<....>

Genocided or extinct species:
master mind flayers
liches
demiliches
master liches
arch-liches
5 species genocided.

Your skills at the end
Fighting Skills
(none)
Weapon Skills
dagger [Skilled]
knife [Basic]
long sword [Basic]
hammer [Basic]
quarterstaff [Skilled]
unicorn horn [Basic]
Spellcasting Skills
healing spells [Basic]



--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris

More about : yasd good healer

August 4, 2005 10:33:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:
> Goodbye CydeWeys the Healer...
> You choked in Gehennom on dungeon level 45 with 1013963 points,
> and 17684 pieces of gold, after 51858 moves.
> Killer: mind flayer corpse
> You were level 14 with a maximum of 248 hit points when you choked.

Ouch.

> w - a blessed tinning kit (0:24)

Double ouch.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 4, 2005 10:55:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

T-Bone wrote:
> Cyde Weys wrote:
> > Goodbye CydeWeys the Healer...
> > You choked in Gehennom on dungeon level 45 with 1013963 points,
> > and 17684 pieces of gold, after 51858 moves.
> > Killer: mind flayer corpse
> > You were level 14 with a maximum of 248 hit points when you choked.
>
> Ouch.
>
> > w - a blessed tinning kit (0:24)
>
> Double ouch.

In retrospect I should have tinned the damn flayer corpse :-(
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 4, 2005 11:04:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Out of curiosity, what does the name on your boots mean?? S6 S22??
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 4, 2005 11:29:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Brigand wrote:
> Out of curiosity, what does the name on your boots mean?? S6 S22??

Stash levels?
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 4, 2005 4:41:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote:
> Brigand wrote:
> > Out of curiosity, what does the name on your boots mean?? S6 S22??
>
> Stash levels?

Indeed. The game has no in-game text editor, and since I play Nethack
from multiple locations I can't just write it down on a piece of paper,
so I #name it onto objects I know I'll always keep.

I just started doing it but maybe in the future you'll see stuff like
H3G4H6O8K9S10, etc.

(Shop on level 3, entrance to Gnomish Mines on 4, shop on 6, Oracle on
8, Sokoban entrance on 9, stash on 10, etc.)
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 4, 2005 5:25:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:
>
> Indeed. The game has no in-game text editor, and since I play Nethack
> from multiple locations I can't just write it down on a piece of paper,
> so I #name it onto objects I know I'll always keep.
>
> I just started doing it but maybe in the future you'll see stuff like
> H3G4H6O8K9S10, etc.
>
> (Shop on level 3, entrance to Gnomish Mines on 4, shop on 6, Oracle on
> 8, Sokoban entrance on 9, stash on 10, etc.)

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike...

Great minds, blah blah blah.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 4, 2005 5:55:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Cyde Weys wrote:
>
> > [...] since I play Nethack from multiple locations I can't just
> > write it down on a piece of paper, [...]
>
> I can understand why you cannot use, say, notepad or another editor to
> make notes, but why can't you use a simple piece of paper? What has
> playing on multiple locations have to do with using paper and pen?
>
> :-)

But using paper is cheating. Everything within the game
needs to be within the game. It's an approach I picked up
on RGRN and I've tended to stick with it most of the time.

On paper I print out a few spoiler items that could apply
to any character. Notes within the game I keep using a
method the game supplies, item names.

If I played several characters in parallel I'd want to
remember usefull levels rather than just keeping them in
my head as I do now. Now I use names to record whatever
other spoily stuff I don't think I can remember. Now
I use it to record my current luck number and whether I
can safely pray so I know across game saves.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 2:15:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:

> [...] since I play Nethack from multiple locations I can't just
> write it down on a piece of paper, [...]

I can understand why you cannot use, say, notepad or another editor to
make notes, but why can't you use a simple piece of paper? What has
playing on multiple locations have to do with using paper and pen?

:-)

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 3:05:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote in news:D ctt1f
$232$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl:

> Cyde Weys wrote:
>
>> [...] since I play Nethack from multiple locations I can't just
>> write it down on a piece of paper, [...]
>
> I can understand why you cannot use, say, notepad or another editor to
> make notes, but why can't you use a simple piece of paper? What has
> playing on multiple locations have to do with using paper and pen?

Then I'd have to carry around that piece of paper. It's much easier just
to use item names to keep track of game information, because anywhere you
can play you game you also have access to your notes, which is not true if
you, say, left the paper at home by accident.

--
~ Cyde Weys ~

Mana du vortes, mana du vortes
Aeria gloris, aeria gloris
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 5:17:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> wrote:
>Then I'd have to carry around that piece of paper. It's much easier just
>to use item names to keep track of game information, because anywhere you
>can play you game you also have access to your notes, which is not true if
>you, say, left the paper at home by accident.

Anywhere I can play a given game of Nethack, I can get access to any
electronically stored notes I have made pertaining to that game of
Nethack, as I only run Nethack itself on machines on which I have a home
directory or other file space intended for my use.

If I am playing Nethack on the remote machine on which I have a shell
account, I can start another ssh session to run a text editor, or I can
suspend Nethack and invoke my text editor from the same ssh session.

If I am playing Nethack on my home machine, I can switch to another
pterm or virtual console to edit my notes file.

If I decided to play on a dedicated Nethack server, I'd probably keep
any notes file I created on the machine on which I have a shell account.
If I have the tools to access the tournament server, I probably have the
tools to simultaneously access the machine on which I have a shell
account.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
illusion/kinetics controlling is love
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 5:56:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 8/4/05 4:55 PM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>
>>Cyde Weys wrote:
>>
>>
>>>[...] since I play Nethack from multiple locations I can't just
>>>write it down on a piece of paper, [...]
>>
>>I can understand why you cannot use, say, notepad or another editor to
>>make notes, but why can't you use a simple piece of paper? What has
>>playing on multiple locations have to do with using paper and pen?
>>
>>:-)
>
>
> But using paper is cheating. Everything within the game
> needs to be within the game.

I hope you're joking. Note-taking is *not* cheating, regardless of means.

> On paper I print out a few spoiler items that could apply
> to any character.

So cheating is acceptable as long as it's not specific to a particular
character?

> Notes within the game I keep using a method the game supplies, item
> names.

Although widely used, this is arguably a *misuse* of a game feature.
#Name-ing is pretty clearly intended for keeping track of which
non-officially-ID'd items are which, which individual items are
enchanted or unofficially BUC identified, that sort of thing.

The reason why I think it's okay for using the #name command to keep
track of other information is because I think mechanical means of
keeping track of that information is okay, whatever form it takes.
Saying that taking notes is okay by one means and cheating by another is
nonsense.

The most obvious reason for using in-game names for notes is when
playing on different machines from a single public server.

--
Kevin Wayne

"You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles."
--Miracle Max
August 5, 2005 1:15:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kevin Wayne <killedbyafoo@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:2HzIe.3480$Q75.693341@newshog.newsread.com:

>> But using paper is cheating. Everything within the game
>> needs to be within the game.
>
> I hope you're joking. Note-taking is *not* cheating, regardless of
> means.

If I take notes so that I can instantly re-id my inventory after a memory
loss that wouldn't be cheating? Or if I take notes so that I can
instantly know what is in every bones file on my system that wouldn't be
cheating?
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 2:45:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <2HzIe.3480$Q75.693341@newshog.newsread.com>,
Kevin Wayne <killedbyafoo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I hope you're joking. Note-taking is *not* cheating, regardless of means.

[ ... ]

>So cheating is acceptable as long as it's not specific to a particular
>character?

Note: personal views follow.

There are certainly some forms of note-taking I regard as bad as
save-scumming: the most obvious one is taking down scroll etc
identifications outside the game so that you (the player, as opposed to
the character) still know them after your character forgets them due to
mind flayer attack or scroll of amnesia.

Beyond that, there are certainly things I would think of as incredibly
bad role-playing if someone tried them in a D&D game, eg having your Int
3 Caveman walk into a shop and suddenly he knows the prices of every
item and is able to do the maths to work out when he's being surcharged.
However, Nethack is not D&D and is hard enough even when thoroughly
spoiled, so some compromises need to be made to keep the game fun. Full
credit to those people who don't need to compromise as much as I do.

I'm also aware these two contradict slightly: what would stop an Int 18,
Wis 18 Wizard writing down all his discoveries in the back of a
spellbook such that he could look them up if he forgot them for any
reason? Answer: not much, but that's the way I play the game. Deal :-)

Cheers,

Phil

--
Philip Kendall <pak21@srcf.ucam.org>
http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~pak21/
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 2:51:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <Xns96A935F6BF408gme6cornelledu@132.236.56.8>,
Seraphim <gme6@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>Or if I take notes so that I can instantly know what is in every bones
>file on my system that wouldn't be cheating?

This is about the point at which I start having problems with this.
Writing down the contents of every bones file is "clearly" wrong, but
if I find a wizard corpse, is it reasonable to assume that the rotted
tattered cape is in fact a [oMR?

Cheers,

Phil

--
Philip Kendall <pak21@srcf.ucam.org>
http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~pak21/
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 4:03:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <Xns96A935F6BF408gme6cornelledu@132.236.56.8>, Seraphim
says...
> If I take notes so that I can instantly re-id my inventory after a memory
> loss that wouldn't be cheating?

YANI: Amnesia/mind flayer attacks rearrange descriptions of forgotten
items and either remove associated inventory letter or rearrange
inventory letters for forgotten carried items as appropriate.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 4:32:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Seraphim wrote:

> If I take notes so that I can instantly re-id my inventory after a
> memory loss that wouldn't be cheating? Or if I take notes so that I can
> instantly know what is in every bones file on my system that wouldn't be
> cheating?

Probably; absolutely.

Raisse, killed by a housecat called Poes

--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 4:35:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Philip Kendall wrote:

> Writing down the contents of every bones file is "clearly" wrong, but
> if I find a wizard corpse, is it reasonable to assume that the rotted
> tattered cape is in fact a [oMR?

Yes, I think that's reasonable. Also, the four identical scrolls found on
a tourist corpse are probably magic mapping, the large number of gray
stones on a caveperson's corpse are flint, and any gems an archaeologist
is carrying are probably real (and the A's gray stone a touchstone).
That's general game-world knowledge, not tied to any individual
character.

Raisse, killed by a worthless piece of green glass

--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 5:59:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andrew Kerr <andykerr@SPAMGUARD.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <Xns96A935F6BF408gme6cornelledu@132.236.56.8>, Seraphim
>says...
>> If I take notes so that I can instantly re-id my inventory after a memory
>> loss that wouldn't be cheating?
>
>YANI: Amnesia/mind flayer attacks rearrange descriptions of forgotten
>items and either remove associated inventory letter or rearrange
>inventory letters for forgotten carried items as appropriate.

Non-starter. This amounts to giving mind flayers the power to change the
gross physical properties of the hero's possessions simply by slurping
out chunks of their brain. Potions, scrolls, rings, amulets, and wands
are described in terms of their distinctive physical properties.

Also, it has actual game-mechanical effects; consider the edibility or
otherwise of rings, the presence of imprisoned creatures disguised as
potions, and the fragility of glass wands.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
illusion/kinetics controlling is love
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 6:47:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kevin Wayne wrote:

> Although widely used, this is arguably a *misuse* of a game feature.
> #Name-ing is pretty clearly intended for keeping track of which
> non-officially-ID'd items are which, which individual items are
> enchanted or unofficially BUC identified, that sort of thing.

Although I agree with you on all other points made, I don't here.

If naming was meant for keeping track of non-officially ID'd items only,
you wouldn't need individual naming of items.

I think it's also there for sentimental reasons, for example to remember
which of those robes you're carrying was donated by the Valley priest. I
also like to name long swords that I didn't just find, but that came
from an angelic being, since those are often enchanted and/or rustproof.

Next, you can name Sting and Orcrist, and various pets and monsters, but
this falls out of the category of things you could use to keep notes
(except for your pet, but that would be harsh: "You displace
H4S8C14H16")...

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 7:00:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Philip Kendall wrote:

> In article <2HzIe.3480$Q75.693341@newshog.newsread.com>,
> Kevin Wayne <killedbyafoo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>I hope you're joking. Note-taking is *not* cheating, regardless of means.
>
>
> [ ... ]
>
>
>>So cheating is acceptable as long as it's not specific to a particular
>>character?
>
>
> Note: personal views follow.
>
> There are certainly some forms of note-taking I regard as bad as
> save-scumming: the most obvious one is taking down scroll etc
> identifications outside the game so that you (the player, as opposed to
> the character) still know them after your character forgets them due to
> mind flayer attack or scroll of amnesia.

But if you name an individual scroll of identify as identify that name
is not cleared by (m)mf attack or scroll of amnesia. So as there already
is a way to record the information in the game how is using paper cheating?

Topi
--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
"How come he didn't put 'I think' at the end of it?" - Anonymous
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 8:20:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

IMO, I think it's considered bad roleplaying to take notes using
pen-and-paper. I think it's fine to write out a "shopping list" or
"things to do" list, but writing out the locations of everything in the
dungeon is godmoding, in a way.

I mean, does my lvl1 caveman start his journey into the dungeons of
doom with access to an indistructable, immaterial astral page detailing
everything in a dungeon, should he forget? No. I think it's wrong to
use anything outside of the game to record in-game information, as your
character wouldn't have access to such information. If you do and your
character doesn't, that's out of character and bad roleplaying.

Whether or not you're actually roleplaying in Nethack is disputable, I
suppose.

Naming of items, though, is fine, as that's something my caveman is
going to know (it's a pneumonic device), and it can be destroyed
through SoE and (m)mf attacks, so it's not godmoding in my opinion.

Personally, if I know I won't be playing for a while or will otherwise
forget information about my game, I'll put a worthless item on the
floor (crude dagger, etc), and engrave the information I'll need to
remember, with Elbereth at the end so that a monster won't rub it out.

The dagger is there because for Elbereth to work, something needs to be
occupying the space. It also helps be to recognise that there's
information in that block.

But I digress. I'm rambling. The point is that keeping a pen-and-paper
version of everything in the dungeon isn't nearly as bad as agressively
reading spoilers so that you can know any item's identity and it's
cursed/blessed state before you buy it. The beauty of Nethack is that
even when you cheat, it's one of the hardest games you'll ever find
anyway, so it ultimately doesn't matter.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 10:07:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Martin Read" <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:TZD*fWkVq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> Cyde Weys <cyde@umd.edu> wrote:
> >Then I'd have to carry around that piece of paper. It's much easier just
> >to use item names to keep track of game information, because anywhere you
> >can play you game you also have access to your notes, which is not true
if
> >you, say, left the paper at home by accident.
>
> Anywhere I can play a given game of Nethack, I can get access to any
> electronically stored notes I have made pertaining to that game of
> Nethack, as I only run Nethack itself on machines on which I have a home
> directory or other file space intended for my use.
>
> If I am playing Nethack on the remote machine on which I have a shell
> account, I can start another ssh session to run a text editor, or I can
> suspend Nethack and invoke my text editor from the same ssh session.
>
> If I am playing Nethack on my home machine, I can switch to another
> pterm or virtual console to edit my notes file.
>
> If I decided to play on a dedicated Nethack server, I'd probably keep
> any notes file I created on the machine on which I have a shell account.
> If I have the tools to access the tournament server, I probably have the
> tools to simultaneously access the machine on which I have a shell
> account.

But does the means justify the cause? It is easier to do it Clyde's way.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 5, 2005 10:07:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"BWIGLEY" <bwigley@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>"Martin Read" <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
>news:TZD*fWkVq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
>> Anywhere I can play a given game of Nethack, I can get access to any
>> electronically stored notes I have made pertaining to that game of
>> Nethack, as I only run Nethack itself on machines on which I have a home
>> directory or other file space intended for my use.
>
>But does the means justify the cause? It is easier to do it Clyde's way.

On the contrary. I can keep much more legible and comprehensible notes
in My Favorite Editor than I can in the cramped confines of an item tag.
My Favorite Editor is designed to permit the easy editing of text; the
item tag input interface in Nethack is not.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
illusion/kinetics controlling is love
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 6, 2005 2:29:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Martin Read" <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:A2F*KLmVq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> "BWIGLEY" <bwigley@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> >"Martin Read" <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
> >news:TZD*fWkVq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> >> Anywhere I can play a given game of Nethack, I can get access to any
> >> electronically stored notes I have made pertaining to that game of
> >> Nethack, as I only run Nethack itself on machines on which I have a
home
> >> directory or other file space intended for my use.
> >
> >But does the means justify the cause? It is easier to do it Clyde's way.
>
> On the contrary. I can keep much more legible and comprehensible notes
> in My Favorite Editor than I can in the cramped confines of an item tag.
> My Favorite Editor is designed to permit the easy editing of text; the
> item tag input interface in Nethack is not.

> Anywhere I can play a given game of Nethack, I can get access to any
> electronically stored notes I have made pertaining to that game of
> Nethack, as I only run Nethack itself on machines on which I have a home
> directory or other file space intended for my use.
>
> If I am playing Nethack on the remote machine on which I have a shell
> account, I can start another ssh session to run a text editor, or I can
> suspend Nethack and invoke my text editor from the same ssh session.
>
> If I am playing Nethack on my home machine, I can switch to another
> pterm or virtual console to edit my notes file.

But really, taking the time to do things like this ^^, I know it isn't /too/
complicated but really, when you can just have a quick look at your
inventory, it is much simpler. Also you don't really need detailed
info(unless you are preparing for a YA(F)AP post).
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 6, 2005 2:44:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Well, of course you can play a character more intelligent than
yourself. I was using the lvl1 caveman as an example of one side of the
spectrum. Even my lvl18 wizard doesn't have access to that type of
information. I suppose my allegory was a bit skewed.

The way I look at it, if the roleplayer is taking enough time off of
the game to forget things, then so is his character. That's my two
cents on the subject, and I suppose that's where we differ. Personally,
I think that in-game methods should be used to remember things while
staying in character, but I guess I'm just a little bit more of a geek
like that. xD.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 6, 2005 6:18:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Garbage.Boxes@gmail.com wrote:

> I mean, does my lvl1 caveman start his journey into the dungeons of
> doom with access to an indistructable, immaterial astral page
> detailing everything in a dungeon, should he forget? No. I think
> it's wrong to use anything outside of the game to record in-game
> information, as your character wouldn't have access to such
> information. If you do and your character doesn't, that's out of
> character and bad roleplaying.

I have a bad memory myself, and often play several characters
alternating between them.

Should my character forget the location of shops, temples, etc., just
because *I* do? No. I think *I* have to be my character's memory.

To use an analogy with real roleplaying: you *can* play a character
that's more intelligent/wise/charismatic than yourself, but this
requires lenience by the GM, since he'll often have to give you hints or
make you rollplay instead of roleplay.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 6, 2005 2:15:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Garbage.Boxes@gmail.com wrote:

> Naming of items, though, is fine, as that's something my caveman is
> going to know (it's a pneumonic device), and it can be destroyed
> through SoE and (m)mf attacks, so it's not godmoding in my opinion.

Naming an item type is forgotten by (m)mf attacks but naming an item
isn't. So you can name your t-shirt 's6' to state that your stash is on
level 6 and in that stash you might have some spare darts each named
like 'KERNOD WEL is identify'. Nothing of this can be forgotten with an
ingame mechanism. Is this cheating?

Topi
--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
"How come he didn't put 'I think' at the end of it?" - Anonymous
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 7, 2005 1:20:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 8/5/05 8:47 AM, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> Kevin Wayne wrote:
>
>>Although widely used, this is arguably a *misuse* of a game feature.
>>#Name-ing is pretty clearly intended for keeping track of which
>>non-officially-ID'd items are which, which individual items are
>>enchanted or unofficially BUC identified, that sort of thing.
>
> Although I agree with you on all other points made, I don't here.
>
> If naming was meant for keeping track of non-officially ID'd items only,
> you wouldn't need individual naming of items.

In my paragraph quoted above, I go on to suggest reasons for individual
IDing as well--denoting enchantment, BUC status, etc.
>
> I think it's also there for sentimental reasons, for example to remember
> which of those robes you're carrying was donated by the Valley priest. I
> also like to name long swords that I didn't just find, but that came
> from an angelic being, since those are often enchanted and/or rustproof.

Right. I guess my view could have been generalized in this way:
#Name-ing of objects is pretty clearly intended for information (of
whatever type) *related to that object*. Although, as I already said, I
don't actually have a problem with using #name for other sorts of
note-taking as well.

--
Kevin Wayne

"Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare
their souls." --Steve Hindalong
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 7, 2005 1:20:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 8/5/05 7:20 PM, Garbage.Boxes@gmail.com wrote:
> IMO, I think it's considered bad roleplaying to take notes using
> pen-and-paper. I think it's fine to write out a "shopping list" or
> "things to do" list, but writing out the locations of everything in the
> dungeon is godmoding, in a way.
>
> I mean, does my lvl1 caveman start his journey into the dungeons of
> doom with access to an indistructable, immaterial astral page detailing
> everything in a dungeon, should he forget? No. I think it's wrong to
> use anything outside of the game to record in-game information, as your
> character wouldn't have access to such information. If you do and your
> character doesn't, that's out of character and bad roleplaying.

Well, the difference is, my character isn't regularly leaving the
dungeon to go to work, interact with his wife and kids, and in general,
live a completely different life outside the dungeon. He's much more
likely than I am to recall on which level he left his stash, what shops
were in Minetown, and where he heard his Quest leader pleading for help.

That's the only type of note-taking I do (well, I also record intrinsics
gained, which I admit involves a bit of out-of-game knowledge), and I
don't even do that until a game is well under way and I think this
character may be ascendable.

Anyway, the game seems to recognize my caveman as having an
indestructable, immaterial *backpack*. Mine comes with a pad and pen
(well, actually, a copy of Notepad and a keyboard). Doesn't yours?

> [K]eeping a pen-and-paper version of everything in the dungeon isn't
> nearly as bad as agressively reading spoilers so that you can know
> any item's identity and it's cursed/blessed state before you buy it.

Yes, indeed. And plenty of people do stuff like detailed price-ID with
characters that are supposedly dumb as a post...

By the way, has anyone ever thought of tweaking the "verbose" option so
that it gives more or less information based on your character's INT? Or
giving a character with high INT a recurring random chance of "recalling
a piece of ancient lore" (i.e., true fortune)?

> The beauty of Nethack is that even when you cheat, it's one of the
> hardest games you'll ever find anyway, so it ultimately doesn't
> matter.

Yes, but it stings a bit to have the word "cheat" applied when you feel
you're playing honestly.

--
Kevin Wayne

"Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare
their souls." --Steve Hindalong
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 7, 2005 1:20:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 8/5/05 5:15 AM, Seraphim wrote:

> If I take notes so that I can instantly re-id my inventory after a memory
> loss that wouldn't be cheating? Or if I take notes so that I can
> instantly know what is in every bones file on my system that wouldn't be
> cheating?

I knew I should have dealt with this in my other post.

Yes, I think that both of these things would be cheating. They both, by
the way, would be a reduplication of what I feel the #name command is
intended for. By contrast, there is no in-game mechanism clearly
intended for recalling, for instance, what level a shop or your stash is on.

--
Kevin Wayne

"We'll never survive."
"Nonsense. You're only saying that because no one ever has."
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 7, 2005 1:20:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 8/5/05 6:29 AM, BWIGLEY wrote:
> "Martin Read" <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:A2F*KLmVq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
>
>>"BWIGLEY" <bwigley@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>But does the means justify the cause?

I don't have the foggiest idea of what that means.

>>It is easier to do it Clyde's way.

*Cyde*'s way.

>>On the contrary. I can keep much more legible and comprehensible notes
>>in My Favorite Editor than I can in the cramped confines of an item tag.
>>My Favorite Editor is designed to permit the easy editing of text; the
>>item tag input interface in Nethack is not.
>
>
>>Anywhere I can play a given game of Nethack, I can get access to any
>>electronically stored notes I have made pertaining to that game of
>>Nethack, as I only run Nethack itself on machines on which I have a home
>>directory or other file space intended for my use.
>>
>>If I am playing Nethack on the remote machine on which I have a shell
>>account, I can start another ssh session to run a text editor, or I can
>>suspend Nethack and invoke my text editor from the same ssh session.
>>
>>If I am playing Nethack on my home machine, I can switch to another
>>pterm or virtual console to edit my notes file.
>
>
> But really, taking the time to do things like this ^^, I know it isn't /too/
> complicated but really, when you can just have a quick look at your
> inventory, it is much simpler.

Not really. It's a click or a keypress to switch to the already-open
other window, which isn't cluttered with other inventory information I'm
not looking for at the moment.

> Also you don't really need detailed info(unless you are preparing for
> a YA(F)AP post).

But that's one of the main reasons for keeping notes.

--
Kevin Wayne

"That's *easy*!"
--Sir Robin
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 7, 2005 2:06:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 10:15:33 +0300, Topi Linkala wrote:

> Naming an item type is forgotten by (m)mf attacks but naming an item
> isn't. So you can name your t-shirt 's6' to state that your stash is on
> level 6 and in that stash you might have some spare darts each named like
> 'KERNOD WEL is identify'. Nothing of this can be forgotten with an ingame
> mechanism. Is this cheating?

Weird. I would think a mindflayer attack should cause you to forget
individual item names too. Strange that it doesn't, as those are just more
things your character 'remembers'.
OTOH, I don't see anything wrong with a paranoid genoless character
taking an athame to the floor of some room to carve the names of things
he's identified just in case. Like using a room one level up from your
stash, and using say this one square for the 200gp scrolls, this one for
the 100gp, etc. That would involve going through a good bit of trouble to
do it, and would be both in-game, in-character, and balanced. Plus it
would confuse the hell out of a newbie if they got a bones file. :) 
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 7, 2005 4:08:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 8/6/05 6:06 PM, Mantar, Feyelno nek dusa wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 10:15:33 +0300, Topi Linkala wrote:
>
>>Naming an item type is forgotten by (m)mf attacks but naming an item
>>isn't.
>
> Weird. I would think a mindflayer attack should cause you to forget
> individual item names too. Strange that it doesn't, as those are just more
> things your character 'remembers'.

Try #naming an ordinary weapon with an artifact name (excluding Sting
and Orcrist). The game makes reference to "engraving" the item.

--
Kevin Wayne

"That's easy!"
--Sir Robin
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 7, 2005 8:04:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kevin Wayne wrote:
> On 8/6/05 6:06 PM, Mantar, Feyelno nek dusa wrote:
>> On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 10:15:33 +0300, Topi Linkala wrote:

>>> Naming an item type is forgotten by (m)mf attacks but naming an item
>>> isn't.

>> Weird. I would think a mindflayer attack should cause you to forget
>> individual item names too. Strange that it doesn't, as those are
>> just more things your character 'remembers'.

> Try #naming an ordinary weapon with an artifact name (excluding Sting
> and Orcrist). The game makes reference to "engraving" the item.

Then why doesn't this break illiterate conduct?

This seems like a bug to me...

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 7, 2005 10:32:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kevin Wayne wrote:

> On 8/5/05 5:15 AM, Seraphim wrote:
>
>> If I take notes so that I can instantly re-id my inventory after a
>> memory loss that wouldn't be cheating? Or if I take notes so that I can
>> instantly know what is in every bones file on my system that wouldn't be
>> cheating?
>
> I knew I should have dealt with this in my other post.
>
> Yes, I think that both of these things would be cheating. They both, by
> the way, would be a reduplication of what I feel the #name command is
> intended for.

If you were to individually #name each item in your inventory with a full
description of that item, you could use that information after a memory
loss. What about doing this would you consider to be counter to what the
#name command is intended for?

--
Benjamin Lewis

A small, but vocal, contingent even argues that tin is superior, but they
are held by most to be the lunatic fringe of Foil Deflector Beanie science.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 8, 2005 10:24:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 8/7/05 2:32 PM, Benjamin Lewis wrote:

> If you were to individually #name each item in your inventory with a full
> description of that item, you could use that information after a memory
> loss. What about doing this would you consider to be counter to what the
> #name command is intended for?

It would be redundant to information that the game already gives you.
The only possible reason for doing so would be to avoid the effects of
mind flayer attack.

--
Kevin Wayne

"Creation is an act of will. Next time, we'll get it right."
-- John Hammond
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 9, 2005 2:20:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Kevin Wayne" <killedbyafoo@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:VQ9Je.172$MP5.15576@monger.newsread.com...
> On 8/5/05 6:29 AM, BWIGLEY wrote:
> > "Martin Read" <mpread@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
> > news:A2F*KLmVq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> >
> >>"BWIGLEY" <bwigley@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> >>>But does the means justify the cause?
>
> I don't have the foggiest idea of what that means.

Is the difficulty of transfering(means) the extra file really worth the
small amount of extra information(cause)?

> >>It is easier to do it Clyde's way.
>
> *Cyde*'s way.
>
> >>On the contrary. I can keep much more legible and comprehensible notes
> >>in My Favorite Editor than I can in the cramped confines of an item tag.
> >>My Favorite Editor is designed to permit the easy editing of text; the
> >>item tag input interface in Nethack is not.
> >
> >
> >>Anywhere I can play a given game of Nethack, I can get access to any
> >>electronically stored notes I have made pertaining to that game of
> >>Nethack, as I only run Nethack itself on machines on which I have a home
> >>directory or other file space intended for my use.
> >>
> >>If I am playing Nethack on the remote machine on which I have a shell
> >>account, I can start another ssh session to run a text editor, or I can
> >>suspend Nethack and invoke my text editor from the same ssh session.
> >>
> >>If I am playing Nethack on my home machine, I can switch to another
> >>pterm or virtual console to edit my notes file.
> >
> >
> > But really, taking the time to do things like this ^^, I know it isn't
/too/
> > complicated but really, when you can just have a quick look at your
> > inventory, it is much simpler.
>
> Not really. It's a click or a keypress to switch to the already-open
> other window, which isn't cluttered with other inventory information I'm
> not looking for at the moment.

Not really the switch, but if you are playing on NAO etc. you have to go
through the process of getting(and saving) the .txt file.

> > Also you don't really need detailed info (unless you are preparing for
> > a YA(F)AP post).
>
> But that's one of the main reasons for keeping notes.

I know, but not for me, having only ascended once (and almost finished my
second), I mainly use notes for a memory of where everything is.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 9, 2005 6:19:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Cyde Weys" <cyde@umd.edu> writes:

> (Shop on level 3, entrance to Gnomish Mines on 4, shop on 6, Oracle on
> 8, Sokoban entrance on 9, stash on 10, etc.)

You don't need separate note entries for Oracle and Sokoban entrance.. the
Sokoban entrance is always one level below Oracle.

--
Jukka Lahtinen
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 11, 2005 10:36:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Philip Kendall <pak21@cam.ac.uk>:
>Seraphim <gme6@cornell.edu> wrote:
>>Or if I take notes so that I can instantly know what is in every bones
>>file on my system that wouldn't be cheating?
>This is about the point at which I start having problems with this.
>Writing down the contents of every bones file is "clearly" wrong, but
>if I find a wizard corpse, is it reasonable to assume that the rotted
>tattered cape is in fact a [oMR?

With regard to bones, I try to play as if I am on a multi-user system even
if I am not. So no bones stuffing and no specific memory, but of course if
I find a wizard corpse I think it's jolly likely that the cloak is MR.

Fortunately the mass cursing of stuff in bones means there generally isn't
too much of a problem with immediate use.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Brieday, July.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 11, 2005 10:38:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Philip Kendall <pak21@cam.ac.uk>:
>Beyond that, there are certainly things I would think of as incredibly
>bad role-playing if someone tried them in a D&D game, eg having your Int
>3 Caveman walk into a shop and suddenly he knows the prices of every
>item and is able to do the maths to work out when he's being surcharged.

That would be incredibly bad roleplaying in a roleplaying game, but
NetHack is _not_ a roleplaying game. There's no roleplaying.

Don't tell me you identify with the character and whatnot. Big deal; you
can do that in Pac-Man and that doesn't make Pac-Man a roleplaying game.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Brieday, July.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 11, 2005 10:42:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting BWIGLEY <bwigley@xtra.co.nz>:
[Keep notes in a normal file - use shell accounts when playing on online
servers.]
>Is the difficulty of transfering(means) the extra file really worth the
>small amount of extra information(cause)?

In the UNIX world this is essentially no work at all, and the contrast
between tag editing and the decent text editors we have is greater.

I cannot understand the feeling that it makes a difference (in terms of
cheating) to use an outside notepad or file rather than #name. The effect
in terms of the information you retain is identical.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Brieday, July.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 12, 2005 12:03:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

David Damerell wrote:

> Fortunately the mass cursing of stuff in bones means there generally
> isn't too much of a problem with immediate use.

I'm not sure I get your point. Could you explain?

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 12, 2005 9:09:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 8/11/05 1:38 PM, David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Philip Kendall <pak21@cam.ac.uk>:
>
>>Beyond that, there are certainly things I would think of as incredibly
>>bad role-playing if someone tried them in a D&D game, eg having your Int
>>3 Caveman walk into a shop and suddenly he knows the prices of every
>>item and is able to do the maths to work out when he's being surcharged.
>
>
> That would be incredibly bad roleplaying in a roleplaying game, but
> NetHack is _not_ a roleplaying game. There's no roleplaying.

I would say that there is no *necessary* roleplaying. It can be played
as pure strategy, like chess. But I do think that "roleplaying" does
have a meaning in the Nethack context: namely, trying to play your
character in a manner consistent with that character's abilities and
limitations, and with your conception of that character. Like a lawful
trying to avoid killing peacefuls, even with a pet, or an elvish
character refusing to wear orcish armor.

> Don't tell me you identify with the character and whatnot. Big deal; you
> can do that in Pac-Man and that doesn't make Pac-Man a roleplaying game.

You *can't* identify with Pac-Man's character, because Pac-Man has no
characteristics (okay, other than hunger and a fear of ghosts). There's
nothing to identify with. Nethack has a much more fully developed
character; at least as much as a D&D character.

--
Kevin Wayne

"Stark raving sane."
--Rosencrantz and Guildenstern
!