Lembas wafers

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I've been mulling this about in my head for a while, contemplating
whether or not I should put it on r.g.r.n.

I obviously was either bored or felt that I should.

In The Lord of the Rings, it mentioned lembas bread as never spoiling.
I can't produce evidence, mainly because I don't feel like it, but even
if you look at the books, Frodo and company carried quite a large
supply of lembas bread with them on their journey, and it never went
bad.

I've had multiple instances in which I've eaten rotten lembas bread,
and unless I'm terribly mistaken in my LOTR knowledge, this shouldn't
be so.

Should it?

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Garbage.Boxes@gmail.com wrote:
> I've been mulling this about in my head for a while, contemplating
> whether or not I should put it on r.g.r.n.

I've seen much dumber ideas than this in these halls.

> In The Lord of the Rings, it mentioned lembas bread as never spoiling.
> I can't produce evidence, mainly because I don't feel like it, but even
> if you look at the books, Frodo and company carried quite a large
> supply of lembas bread with them on their journey, and it never went
> bad.

First, find the evidence. It wouldn't do to change it so lembas didn't
rot, then find out that you misremembered.


> I've had multiple instances in which I've eaten rotten lembas bread,
> and unless I'm terribly mistaken in my LOTR knowledge, this shouldn't
> be so.

While I hate to disagree with the esteemed Boudewijn Waijers (who I
still have a kind of awe of, dating back to the days he maintained all
those Roguelike pages and spoilers), I think this is a pretty good
idea.

There's too many food types that are not usefully distinguished from
other types in ways other than nutrition. While I don't think every
little bit of Lord of the Rings needs to be in the game (I think the
more useful acronym is NINA, or "Nethack Is Not *Angband*"), having a
rot-free food doesn't seem like it'd unbalance the game much,
especially when it's not exactly common. Having items that differ from
others in tiny ways, I've always thought, is one of those things that
makes Nethack cool. Like eating carrots as a cure for blindness.

The major thing I'd see this changing is, if you're
hungry/weak/fainting in the middle of battle, rotten food can be a real
problem if it confuses or blinds you. Most times you can simply eat in
a timely fashion, but against Famine I imagine this can be troublesome.
Lembas wafers could thus be a useful tool against him, should a player
be careless enough to engage him in melee.

- John H.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> That is less than four weeks; a reasonable period where
> one can assume that the bread is still unspoiled

Anything more than 3-4 days and most bread I've seen can start growing
mold. I'm talking about real bread here (deli or home-baked), that
chemicalized Wonder stuff can go several weeks. And that's whether
it's a relatively light wheat bread or a heavy grain bread.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Garbage.Boxes@gmail.com wrote:

> I've had multiple instances in which I've eaten rotten lembas bread,
> and unless I'm terribly mistaken in my LOTR knowledge, this shouldn't
> be so.

The fact that it never mentions rotting wafers does not mean that it
never happens: it just isn't mentioned. The book never mentions anyone
going to the toilet, either.

> Should it?

No. NHinLotR.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Garbage.Boxes@gmail.com wrote in
news:1123556915.082692.94490@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> I've been mulling this about in my head for a while, contemplating
> whether or not I should put it on r.g.r.n.
>
> I obviously was either bored or felt that I should.
>
> In The Lord of the Rings, it mentioned lembas bread as never spoiling.
> I can't produce evidence, mainly because I don't feel like it, but even
> if you look at the books, Frodo and company carried quite a large
> supply of lembas bread with them on their journey, and it never went
> bad.
>
> I've had multiple instances in which I've eaten rotten lembas bread,
> and unless I'm terribly mistaken in my LOTR knowledge, this shouldn't
> be so.
>
> Should it?
>

The other thing to remember with lembas, was that in the book, they were
wrapped in a leaf of that tree in Lothlorien which MAY have caused it not to
decay.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Garbage.Boxes@gmail.com wrote:
> I've been mulling this about in my head for a while, contemplating
> whether or not I should put it on r.g.r.n.
>
> I obviously was either bored or felt that I should.
>
> In The Lord of the Rings, it mentioned lembas bread as never spoiling.
> I can't produce evidence, mainly because I don't feel like it, but even
> if you look at the books, Frodo and company carried quite a large
> supply of lembas bread with them on their journey, and it never went
> bad.
>
> I've had multiple instances in which I've eaten rotten lembas bread,
> and unless I'm terribly mistaken in my LOTR knowledge, this shouldn't
> be so.
>
> Should it?

IIRC for an uncursed food the chance of it being rotten is 1/7; for
blessed it is 0 and for cursed it is considerably more. If you want
your lembas wafers not to be rotten, bless them! If you're facing off
against Pestilence and you're really worried about biting into a rotten
K-ration, bless them!

By the way, lembas wafers are by far the best food in the game. They
have the highest nutrition to weight ratio, and not only that, they are
equally good against Pestilence as a K-ration because in one turn of
eating a lembas wafer you get the same amount of nutrition as one turn
of eating a K-ration, except that finishes the K-ration while you still
have half of the lembas wafer left!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> I don't know what you mean by "deli", but 3-4 days is far to short for
> the home baked bread that I baked myself. If you keep away moisture you
> can keep it unmoldy "as long as you like", provided you like bread that
> is hard as stone, due to the dehydration that takes place over time.

> OTOH, it's impossible to prevent the cheap pre-cut factory toast bread
> from getting moldy within a few days.

Wacky. I've found just the opposite. Admittedly I don't like hard
bread, but if I bake a loaf ("This loaf of bread is delicious!") and
put it in a plastic bag, it'll start to mold in a few days ("Oh, wow!
Everything looks so cosmic!") .

I've never tried leaving it outside of a bag since I don't like it once
it gets stale ("Yak! Dog food!").

If I get a loaf of the pre-sliced supermarket toast stuff, it'll last a
couple weeks at least ("The Wonder bread is bland").

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Garbage.Boxes@gmail.com writes:

> I've had multiple instances in which I've eaten rotten lembas bread,
> and unless I'm terribly mistaken in my LOTR knowledge, this shouldn't
> be so.

I reported this to the DevTeam as a bug shortly before Christmas, but
there was no reply and the bug didn't make it to the bug list. Cram
should also be nonperishable (IIRC, The Hobbit mentions that it "keeps
good indefinitely"). I didn't think of this at the time, but possibly
C- and K-rations should be added to the list of nonperishable food.
Eva.

--
Eva Myers, Computer Officer, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge
Email: erm1001@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/
Ignorance and deception can't save anybody. *Knowing* saves them.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Garbage.Boxes@gmail.com wrote:
>
> In The Lord of the Rings, it mentioned lembas bread as never spoiling.

> I can't produce evidence, mainly because I don't feel like it, but even
> if you look at the books, Frodo and company carried quite a large
> supply of lembas bread with them on their journey, and it never went
> bad.

I cannot see that. According to the time scale in the books you can
only claim that it did not spoil in the time interval 16.2. - 12.3.
They left the elves at 16.2. and reached the spider at 12.3. (as far
as I see). That is less than four weeks; a reasonable period where one
can assume that the bread is still unspoiled (if not gotten wet).■

I neither can see any evidence for "great supply"; since lembas is very
nutricious you don't need much to get satiated (according to the books).

And you don't know how long this bread was lying around in the dungeons.

Janis

■ There is bread in RL that would likely spoil; especially that
floppy wheat bread that's commonly used in some countries. 8-}

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

sjdevnull@yahoo.com wrote:

>> That is less than four weeks; a reasonable period where
>> one can assume that the bread is still unspoiled
>
> Anything more than 3-4 days and most bread I've seen can start growing
> mold. I'm talking about real bread here (deli or home-baked), that
> chemicalized Wonder stuff can go several weeks. And that's whether
> it's a relatively light wheat bread or a heavy grain bread.

1. NetHack is not LOTR.
2. NetHack is not real life.
3. LOTR is not real life.

(And my home-baked bread lasts for a week, though it gets very dry)

Raisse, killed by a hobbit

--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

sjdevnull@yahoo.com wrote:
>>That is less than four weeks; a reasonable period where
>>one can assume that the bread is still unspoiled
>
> Anything more than 3-4 days and most bread I've seen can start growing
> mold. I'm talking about real bread here (deli or home-baked), that
> chemicalized Wonder stuff can go several weeks. And that's whether
> it's a relatively light wheat bread or a heavy grain bread.

I was *not* talking about "chamicalized Wonder stuff" (laws concerning
food and chemical additions to food are very strict here where I live).

I don't know what you mean by "deli", but 3-4 days is far to short for
the home baked bread that I baked myself. If you keep away moisture you
can keep it unmoldy "as long as you like", provided you like bread that
is hard as stone, due to the dehydration that takes place over time.

OTOH, it's impossible to prevent the cheap pre-cut factory toast bread
from getting moldy within a few days. (Again speaking for the country
where I live.)

Janis

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 17:56:46 +0200
Raisse the Thaumaturge <raisse@valdyas.org> wrote:

> 1. NetHack is not LOTR.
> 2. NetHack is not real life.
> 3. LOTR is not real life.
>
> (And my home-baked bread lasts for a week, though it gets very dry)

4. Pretzels are knot bread.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> sjdevnull@yahoo.com wrote:

>> Anything more than 3-4 days and most bread I've seen can start
>> growing mold. I'm talking about real bread here (deli or
>> home-baked), that chemicalized Wonder stuff can go several weeks.
>> And that's whether it's a relatively light wheat bread or a heavy
>> grain bread.

> I don't know what you mean by "deli", but 3-4 days is far to short for
> the home baked bread that I baked myself. If you keep away moisture
> you can keep it unmoldy "as long as you like", provided you like
> bread that is hard as stone, due to the dehydration that takes place
> over time.

I can assert to that. When we eat bread, we usually don't eat the ends
(with only crust).

Instead of throwing these away, we save them in an open plastic bag, and
when we've got enough, we crush them in a mortar, leaving us with cheap
and delicious bread crumbs which, when crushed very finely, can be well
used to crumb (for example) croquets, schnitzels or battered fish.

It normally takes some three months to get enough old bread to make it
worthwhile the trouble, and when no water touches the slices, it stays
good all way through. Although it becomes dry and hard, you can still
eat it if you wet it.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> Instead of throwing these away, we save them in an open plastic bag, and
> when we've got enough, we crush them in a mortar, leaving us with cheap
> and delicious bread crumbs which, when crushed very finely, can be well
> used to crumb (for example) croquets, schnitzels or battered fish.

Great for hunting squirrels too: thow a piece at one and it knocks them out
cold. Squirrels, I mean I don't eat squirrels do I?!?!?!?? So what if I do
(Sorry Mr. Cleese)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

sjdevnull@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Wacky. I've found just the opposite. Admittedly I don't like hard
> bread, but if I bake a loaf ("This loaf of bread is delicious!") and
> put it in a plastic bag, it'll start to mold in a few days ("Oh, wow!
> Everything looks so cosmic!") .

Yes, if you put it in a closed plastic bag the moisture from the bread
can condense and furthers the building of mold; this is a process that
can happen quite fast (even in half a day, or so, depending on other
conditions like temperature, etc.).

Here, in bakeries, when you buy fresh (hot) pastries, where the moisture
contained in the bread-dough steams out in a significant amount, you will
get the bread (or Semmel or Brezel) in an open bag, and are advised not
to close it.

When you keep fresh bread, you typically have a special (wooden) bread
container, a cloth, or a special paper that allows the steam to escape
so that the moisture will not be able to condense.

To get somewhat on-topic again... The lembas in LotR have been carried
embedded in some leaf, that is permeable to water vapour, so one can
expect that there is no condensed water that supports generation of mold.

It is a nice feature that corpses in Slash'em can get moldy (change
to some F'ungus creature type). (Though in my opinion far too fast.)

Janis

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Cyde Weys wrote:
> Garbage.Boxes@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>I've been mulling this about in my head for a while, contemplating
>>whether or not I should put it on r.g.r.n.
>>
>>I obviously was either bored or felt that I should.
>>
>>In The Lord of the Rings, it mentioned lembas bread as never spoiling.
>>I can't produce evidence, mainly because I don't feel like it, but even
>>if you look at the books, Frodo and company carried quite a large
>>supply of lembas bread with them on their journey, and it never went
>>bad.
>>
>>I've had multiple instances in which I've eaten rotten lembas bread,
>>and unless I'm terribly mistaken in my LOTR knowledge, this shouldn't
>>be so.
>>
>>Should it?
>
>
> IIRC for an uncursed food the chance of it being rotten is 1/7; for
> blessed it is 0 and for cursed it is considerably more. If you want
> your lembas wafers not to be rotten, bless them! If you're facing off
> against Pestilence and you're really worried about biting into a rotten
> K-ration, bless them!
>
> By the way, lembas wafers are by far the best food in the game. They
> have the highest nutrition to weight ratio, and not only that, they are
> equally good against Pestilence as a K-ration because in one turn of
> eating a lembas wafer you get the same amount of nutrition as one turn
> of eating a K-ration, except that finishes the K-ration while you still
> have half of the lembas wafer left!
>

s/Pestilence/Famine/g

If you're trying to deal with the effects of the touch from Pestilence
by eating, you're not going to last long

-Ken

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Ken Cuvelier wrote:
> Cyde Weys wrote:
>
>> Garbage.Boxes@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I've been mulling this about in my head for a while, contemplating
>>> whether or not I should put it on r.g.r.n.
>>>
>>> I obviously was either bored or felt that I should.
>>>
>>> In The Lord of the Rings, it mentioned lembas bread as never spoiling.
>>> I can't produce evidence, mainly because I don't feel like it, but even
>>> if you look at the books, Frodo and company carried quite a large
>>> supply of lembas bread with them on their journey, and it never went
>>> bad.
>>>
>>> I've had multiple instances in which I've eaten rotten lembas bread,
>>> and unless I'm terribly mistaken in my LOTR knowledge, this shouldn't
>>> be so.
>>>
>>> Should it?
>>
>>
>>
>> IIRC for an uncursed food the chance of it being rotten is 1/7; for
>> blessed it is 0 and for cursed it is considerably more. If you want
>> your lembas wafers not to be rotten, bless them! If you're facing off
>> against Pestilence and you're really worried about biting into a rotten
>> K-ration, bless them!
>>
>> By the way, lembas wafers are by far the best food in the game. They
>> have the highest nutrition to weight ratio, and not only that, they are
>> equally good against Pestilence as a K-ration because in one turn of
>> eating a lembas wafer you get the same amount of nutrition as one turn
>> of eating a K-ration, except that finishes the K-ration while you still
>> have half of the lembas wafer left!
>>
>
> s/Pestilence/Famine/g
>
> If you're trying to deal with the effects of the touch from Pestilence
> by eating, you're not going to last long
>
> -Ken

*cough*eucalyptusleaf*cough*

--
____ (__)
/ \ (oo) -Zarel
|Moo. > \/
\____/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Zarel wrote:
> Ken Cuvelier wrote:
>
>> Cyde Weys wrote:
>>
>>> Garbage.Boxes@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been mulling this about in my head for a while, contemplating
>>>> whether or not I should put it on r.g.r.n.
>>>>
>>>> I obviously was either bored or felt that I should.
>>>>
>>>> In The Lord of the Rings, it mentioned lembas bread as never spoiling.
>>>> I can't produce evidence, mainly because I don't feel like it, but even
>>>> if you look at the books, Frodo and company carried quite a large
>>>> supply of lembas bread with them on their journey, and it never went
>>>> bad.
>>>>
>>>> I've had multiple instances in which I've eaten rotten lembas bread,
>>>> and unless I'm terribly mistaken in my LOTR knowledge, this shouldn't
>>>> be so.
>>>>
>>>> Should it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IIRC for an uncursed food the chance of it being rotten is 1/7; for
>>> blessed it is 0 and for cursed it is considerably more. If you want
>>> your lembas wafers not to be rotten, bless them! If you're facing off
>>> against Pestilence and you're really worried about biting into a rotten
>>> K-ration, bless them!
>>>
>>> By the way, lembas wafers are by far the best food in the game. They
>>> have the highest nutrition to weight ratio, and not only that, they are
>>> equally good against Pestilence as a K-ration because in one turn of
>>> eating a lembas wafer you get the same amount of nutrition as one turn
>>> of eating a K-ration, except that finishes the K-ration while you still
>>> have half of the lembas wafer left!
>>>
>>
>> s/Pestilence/Famine/g
>>
>> If you're trying to deal with the effects of the touch from Pestilence
>> by eating, you're not going to last long
>>
>> -Ken
>
>
> *cough*eucalyptusleaf*cough*
>

Okay, okay. Allow me to rephrase thusly: "If you're trying to deal with
the effects of the touch from Pestilence by eating lembas wafers, you're
not going to last long " But your point is well-taken.