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August 12, 2005 5:02:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I am currently playing a gnomish ranger, and have succesfully begun
a protection racket. I am in the town at xp lvl one and have bought 2
points of protection. I am now considering whether I should stay at
lvl one and buy a little more protection, or start leveling up and
sacrificing at the altar (co-aligned). I have only 14 hp so I dont
want a YAAD to end what is so far a great game. Thanks to a whole
bunch of good armor found along the way, I already have ac -10! Should
I beef up on levels, or keep screwing around and risk running into a
gnome with a wand of death. Quite frankly, striking could be enough to
do me in right now.

Gherkin

More about : advice

August 12, 2005 5:03:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Just to add one mroe thing: Is it possible to receive sac gifts when
you are at xp lvl one or should I wait?
Anonymous
August 12, 2005 5:08:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Honestly . . . I know most people say you should spelunk down to Dwarf
Town without gaining any levels and get your protection there but
honestly I usually level as I go and shell out the extra $ later. I'd
rather pay more for protection then die trying to get it cheap.
Robbing a few vaults is usually enough to garner the cash for more
protection, especially if you find Ludious along the way.

Then again, I haven't ascended yet . . .
Related resources
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 1:00:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Chris the Wizard wrote:
> Honestly . . . I know most people say you should spelunk down to Dwarf
> Town without gaining any levels and get your protection there but
> honestly I usually level as I go and shell out the extra $ later. I'd
> rather pay more for protection then die trying to get it cheap.
> Robbing a few vaults is usually enough to garner the cash for more
> protection, especially if you find Ludious along the way.

I don't think that "most people" say that. I think a few very
vocal people say that.

I find that the protection racket is a useful trick for a few
classes... ones that start with money and/or an easy way to get it, food
and/or a vegetarian pet, and are weak in combat in the early stages
anyway. Being fast and having pet support abilities or gear help, too.

But for most classes, it's a lot less risky to kill monsters and
level up for the hit points, get your AC from found, bought, or stolen
armor, and buy protection later when you've got heaps of gold to do it
with. Between MMVs, leprechaun halls, treasure zoos, and the sizable
piles you'll find just lying around in the deeper dungeon, there's
plenty enough gold available in the midgame to max your protection then,
even if you're 15th or 20th level.

And that's when you start really needing it, anyway... before
then, a good dwarvish mithril-coat and helm/boots/gloves/cloak with a
plus or four provides plenty of AC.

> Then again, I haven't ascended yet . . .

I have, quite a few times.

--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
August 13, 2005 2:11:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Gherkin" <gherkinz@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1123876925.038793.50360@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> I am currently playing a gnomish ranger, and have succesfully begun
> a protection racket. I am in the town at xp lvl one and have bought 2
> points of protection. I am now considering whether I should stay at
> lvl one and buy a little more protection, or start leveling up and
> sacrificing at the altar (co-aligned). I have only 14 hp so I dont
> want a YAAD to end what is so far a great game. Thanks to a whole
> bunch of good armor found along the way, I already have ac -10! Should
> I beef up on levels, or keep screwing around and risk running into a
> gnome with a wand of death. Quite frankly, striking could be enough to
> do me in right now.
>
> Gherkin
>

have you done sokoban? sacrifices are always good, and certainly 1st level is
safe enough for you if you have enough food to do the waiting for creatures
to be generated. If you have telepathy and/or detect monsters, is better
than without.
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 2:16:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Gherkin wrote:

> Just to add one mroe thing: Is it possible to receive sac gifts when
> you are at xp lvl one or should I wait?

You won't get any gifts until you're at XP level 3, but there's nothing
against sacrificing: it will raise your standing with your god. There's
no need to *wait* when you can do something useful, like killing monsters
and sacrificing them.You'll be level 3 soon enough; a handful of jackals
and kobolds will do it.

Raisse, killed by the wrath of Thoth

--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 3:07:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

John Campbell wrote:

> I don't think that "most people" say that. I think a few very
> vocal people say that.

*I* think this subject has been beaten to death lately.

Please let's not start that useless discussion again.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 9:45:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Chris the Wizard" <nextbeatle@comcast.net> writes:
> Honestly . . . I know most people say you should spelunk down to Dwarf
> Town without gaining any levels and get your protection there

The protection racket is a high-risk early game tactic. You will
either end up with an easy ride until Quest-ish, or die in relatively
few turns.

Going for the protection racket does not, save perhaps in pathological
cases, increase the odds that a newly-started game will end in
ascension. It _may_ give you a better chance of ascending in a given
amount of wall time, for certain styles of play and if you don't care
how many early deaths you suffer in the process. It is akin to
re-rolling, or to quaffing from every fountain you see before you're
ready to handle demons or snakes.

The protection racket is a seductive snare for n00bs, as it offers the
promise of a way to artificially propel them deeper into the game than
they'd normally be able to reach. But it doesn't really teach the sort
of discipline needed to succeed in the long run. It may get you to the
castle, but at some point no amount of AC is a substitute for knowing
what you're doing. (It can be a good way to learn about pets, though.)

Going for early protection is an interesting challenge to experienced
players, when an odd mood strikes. There may be an odd scenario here
and there where it is legitimately the best hope for a given
character. But that's far from "most people say" -- I'd be puzzled and
amazed by use of the racket as a default tactic every game, and doubly
so if it had a high rate of success.

> I'd rather pay more for protection then die trying to get it cheap.
> Robbing a few vaults is usually enough to garner the cash for more
> protection, especially if you find Ludious along the way.

Right. Gold is way too heavy to carry around, and what else are you
going to use it for? Anyway you can get a refund from the priest if
you want; just have your pet Olag-Hai enquire at the service desk.
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 2:44:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Gherkin" <gherkinz@hotmail.com> writes:

> I am currently playing a gnomish ranger, and have succesfully begun
> a protection racket. I am in the town at xp lvl one and have bought 2
> points of protection. I am now considering whether I should stay at
> lvl one and buy a little more protection, or start leveling up and
> sacrificing at the altar (co-aligned).

If by that you mean that you have enough money at your hands
to buy more protection, do it immediately. You won't lose
anything by that except the money, and you couldn't invest
it better.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
August 13, 2005 2:46:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Chris the Wizard" <nextbeatle@comcast.net> writes:

> Honestly . . . I know most people say you should spelunk down to Dwarf
> Town without gaining any levels and get your protection there but
> honestly I usually level as I go and shell out the extra $ later.

I don't think most people say so. Yes, it helps to train
being careful, and if you succeed, you have a much easier
early game. But I would not advise this as the best or
most certain route to ascension, due to the high risk involved.

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 6:36:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Douglas Henke wrote:

> Going for the protection racket does not, save perhaps in pathological
> cases, increase the odds that a newly-started game will end in
> ascension. It _may_ give you a better chance of ascending in a given
> amount of wall time, for certain styles of play and if you don't care
> how many early deaths you suffer in the process. It is akin to
> re-rolling, or to quaffing from every fountain you see before you're
> ready to handle demons or snakes.

This is a gross exaggeration. I dare to say that for certain classes I
will succeed in at least 70% of the tries at the protection racket. Of
the remaining 30%, at least half will still survive, although the racket
fails.

Note that it is not a good tactic for newbies to try. I don't thing more
than 10% will survive, and then only half of them will succeed at the
racket.

> But it doesn't really teach the sort
> of discipline needed to succeed in the long run. It may get you to the
> castle, but at some point no amount of AC is a substitute for knowing
> what you're doing. (It can be a good way to learn about pets, though.)

If anything teaches you discipline, it is the protection racket! You
cannot just go hacking and slashing everything in sight or firing at
everything you see, but you need to carefully walk around, hiding behind
your pet.

> I'd be puzzled and amazed by use of the racket as a default tactic
> every game, and doubly so if it had a high rate of success.

That's why I only use it for certain classes: the healer and the
tourist. They have a difficult start of the game and need to use their
pet to survive, *anyway*. Also, they have the funds to get three
donations, on average, so it's worthwhile.

>> I'd rather pay more for protection then die trying to get it cheap.
>> Robbing a few vaults is usually enough to garner the cash for more
>> protection, especially if you find Ludious along the way.

> Right. Gold is way too heavy to carry around, and what else are you
> going to use it for? Anyway you can get a refund from the priest if
> you want; just have your pet Olag-Hai enquire at the service desk.

400 zorkmids hardly weigh anything at all (less than a potion). And at
the start of the game (which is what we're talking about) you wouldn't
have an Olog-Hai or vaults or Ludios found yet.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
August 14, 2005 8:09:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 8/13/05 8:36 PM, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> [Arguing over the protection racket]

Gee, Boudewijn, I thought you'd considered this subject beaten to death...

--
Kevin Wayne

"Stark raving sane."
--Rosencrantz and Guildenstern
August 14, 2005 5:40:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Douglas Henke wrote:
> Going for the protection racket does not, save perhaps in pathological
> cases, increase the odds that a newly-started game will end in
> ascension. It _may_ give you a better chance of ascending in a given
> amount of wall time, for certain styles of play and if you don't care
> how many early deaths you suffer in the process. It is akin to
> re-rolling, or to quaffing from every fountain you see before you're
> ready to handle demons or snakes.

The Gnomish Healer is an exception. He has a stethoscope to monitor
his pet's HP, a healing spell to heal his pet, potions to heal his pet,
potions to raise his HP, many of the Gnomish Mine monsters are
friendly, he has a wand of sleep to hit whatever might be a problem, he
has infravision so he can find his pet, infravision to avoid getting
mobbed, and starts with 1001+ gold.
August 14, 2005 6:58:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Douglas Henke wrote:
> Going for the protection racket does not, save perhaps in pathological
> cases, increase the odds that a newly-started game will end in
> ascension. It _may_ give you a better chance of ascending in a given
> amount of wall time, for certain styles of play and if you don't care
> how many early deaths you suffer in the process. It is akin to
> re-rolling, or to quaffing from every fountain you see before you're
> ready to handle demons or snakes.

The Gnomish Healer is an exception. He has a stethoscope to monitor
his pet's HP, a healing spell to heal his pet, potions to heal his pet,
potions to raise his HP, many of the Gnomish Mine monsters are
friendly, he has a wand of sleep to hit whatever might be a problem, he
has infravision so he can find his pet, infravision to avoid getting
mobbed, and starts with 1001+ gold.
!