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Arrrrggggh (YASD)

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Anonymous
August 23, 2005 5:01:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

And to think, I was so happy with my dwarven Valkyrie. I had Snickersnee
(which, despite the spoiler, I had confused with Vorpal Blade). I had lots
of identified wands, potions, and rings. (Unusual for me.) I had plenty of
food and decent armor. To be sure, I screwed up and was one boulder short of
finishing Sokoban and maybe getting reflection, but I figured I could always
go back once I found another scroll of earth. I'd cleared the Gnome Mines,
found an aligned altar, and received my first god-gift ever, Mjollnir. I had
all kinds of useful intrinsics and no cursed items. 145 hp and starting to
feel safe.

And then I walked around a corner and an Elven-king hit me with a wand of
death. WYLYPI?

Aaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhh

Ben

More about : arrrrggggh yasd

Anonymous
August 24, 2005 2:03:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Yea. I know how you feel. My best game I ever played ended when I
walked in a doorway and a goblin suddenly zapped me with one of those
too. There wasn't anything I could have done about it either.
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 5:53:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Yep,

sods law says that there was an amulet of reflection waiting for you at
the end of Sokoban. If it helps I would say that was more of an
annoying death (YAAD) than a silly one
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Anonymous
August 24, 2005 8:38:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 13:01:14 -0500, Ben Kimball wrote:

> Mjollnir. I had all kinds of useful intrinsics and no cursed items. 145 hp
> and starting to feel safe.

> And then I walked around a corner and an Elven-king hit me with a wand of
> death. WYLYPI?

Oh man, that's brutal. Well, at least once you get to that level of play
once, it gets easier to get back there with another character. (Says the
guy who hasn't been down to Medusa in about a year. *chuckle*)
August 24, 2005 12:41:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Ben Kimball <zubin@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> And to think, I was so happy with my dwarven Valkyrie. I had Snickersnee
> (which, despite the spoiler, I had confused with Vorpal Blade). I had lots
> of identified wands, potions, and rings. (Unusual for me.) I had plenty of
> food and decent armor. To be sure, I screwed up and was one boulder short of
> finishing Sokoban and maybe getting reflection, but I figured I could always
> go back once I found another scroll of earth. I'd cleared the Gnome Mines,
> found an aligned altar, and received my first god-gift ever, Mjollnir. I had
> all kinds of useful intrinsics and no cursed items. 145 hp and starting to
> feel safe.
>
> And then I walked around a corner and an Elven-king hit me with a wand of
> death. WYLYPI?
>
> Aaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhh
>
> Ben

Yep, lack of magic resistance is a huge liability for fighters, which is
why I switched to playing wizards. Of course, my next promising
character was then insta-killed by a poisoned arrow.
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 2:41:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

richwalm@gmail.com wrote:

> Yea. I know how you feel. My best game I ever played ended when I
> walked in a doorway and a goblin suddenly zapped me with one of those
> too. There wasn't anything I could have done about it either.

You best game ever? And you didn't even have reflection yet!

:-)

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 10:50:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 24 Aug 2005 08:41:51 GMT, anon <anon@anonn.com> wrote:

>Ben Kimball <zubin@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>> And to think, I was so happy with my dwarven Valkyrie. I had Snickersnee
>> (which, despite the spoiler, I had confused with Vorpal Blade). I had lots
>> of identified wands, potions, and rings. (Unusual for me.) I had plenty of
>> food and decent armor. To be sure, I screwed up and was one boulder short of
>> finishing Sokoban and maybe getting reflection, but I figured I could always
>> go back once I found another scroll of earth. I'd cleared the Gnome Mines,
>> found an aligned altar, and received my first god-gift ever, Mjollnir. I had
>> all kinds of useful intrinsics and no cursed items. 145 hp and starting to
>> feel safe.
>>
>> And then I walked around a corner and an Elven-king hit me with a wand of
>> death. WYLYPI?
>>
>> Aaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhh
>>
>> Ben
>
>Yep, lack of magic resistance is a huge liability for fighters, which is
>why I switched to playing wizards. Of course, my next promising
>character was then insta-killed by a poisoned arrow.

For my wizards it's a wand of fire/cold/lightning when I open a
door in Sokoban. It's usually the bounce that gets me, as I
slowly press the spacebar to go through the messages. No bones
about it, either ;^).

Dying on a no-bones level would be a good candidate for a
"stash-bones" patch. Such a patch would look for a level with
a non-empty container that's been individually named, or been BUC
identified and make a bones file from it.

The trouble with wizards is they get you addicted to having a
starting cloak of magic resistance and force bolt. Anti-magic,
polymorph, and teleport traps are just too frustrating. About
like having no way to crush a boulder. Or not having any kind
of ranged attack to start with. Force bolt tides my wizards over
very nicely while searching for daggers.




--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 5:22:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 2005-08-25, Jove wrote:
>
> Dying on a no-bones level would be a good candidate for a
> "stash-bones" patch. Such a patch would look for a level with
> a non-empty container that's been individually named, or been BUC
> identified and make a bones file from it.
>
You mean, a bones file without the nasty biests that killed the original
character, without the hostile powerful pets and the annoying ghost,
just with all the good stuff still uncursed and nicely sorted in
protected chests, probably near an altar?
I'm eager to hear how you'd want to balance _that_ out :-)
--
Jann Ohle Claussen | GPG-Key-ID E7149169
http://www.stud.uni-goettingen.de/~s251251
printk("??? No FDIV bug? Lucky you...\n");
2.2.16 /usr/src/linux/include/asm-i386/bugs.h
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 1:28:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 13:22:08 +0000 (UTC), Ohle Claussen
<claussen@dpi.physik.uni-goettingen.de> wrote:

>On 2005-08-25, Jove wrote:
>>
>> Dying on a no-bones level would be a good candidate for a
>> "stash-bones" patch. Such a patch would look for a level with
>> a non-empty container that's been individually named, or been BUC
>> identified and make a bones file from it.
>>
>You mean, a bones file without the nasty biests that killed the original
>character, without the hostile powerful pets and the annoying ghost,
>just with all the good stuff still uncursed and nicely sorted in
>protected chests, probably near an altar?
>I'm eager to hear how you'd want to balance _that_ out :-)

It's self-balancing. That kind of stash indicates someone
careful enough to ascend. Most stash-bones will consist of every
wimpy piece of armor and weaponry found so far in the dungeon,
along with the few unidentified wands (of nothing, probably),
scrolls (punishment, ditto) and potions (sickness, ditto) the
packrat owner could bring himself to leave behind.

Relatively few stashbones would be by altars, simply because a
good stash by an altar makes the game so much easier.

Occasionally a really good ascension kit stashbones will
appear: spare +6 grey dragon scale mail, rustproof +6HoB,
fireproof +5 speed boots, fixed +4 GoP, +5 Greyswandir, etc.

Those will be the cruelest bones of all: When he dies without
reaching the Castle despite a near perfect kit from the
stash-bones, the finder will have to admit to himself what a
loser he is. What could be more balanced?

Most non-ascendeds could start the game with 9 points of divine
protection, dragon scale mail of their choice, artifact weapon of
their choice, maxed out character stats, all resistances, and
they still wouldn't complete the quest. It's not what you have,
it's what you do with it. (Posters have pointed out that just
the spell of charm monster with low failure rate is enough to
ascend.)

Hmm, that would make a nice bracket for the November
tournament: Non-ascendeds with the above starting setup. This
would be a lower bracket than a straight non-ascendeds bracket.


--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 7:01:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <iuivg1p98oakohbn4pc957kmn2vo5el0at@4ax.com>, Jove says...
> Most stash-bones will consist of every
> wimpy piece of armor and weaponry found so far in the dungeon,
> along with the few unidentified wands (of nothing, probably),
> scrolls (punishment, ditto) and potions (sickness, ditto) the
> packrat owner could bring himself to leave behind.
>
>
And spellbooks. 40 +s can get a bit too heavy to carry around.
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 7:01:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 03:01:28 GMT, Andrew Kerr
<andykerr@SPAMGUARD.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <iuivg1p98oakohbn4pc957kmn2vo5el0at@4ax.com>, Jove says...
>> Most stash-bones will consist of every
>> wimpy piece of armor and weaponry found so far in the dungeon,
>> along with the few unidentified wands (of nothing, probably),
>> scrolls (punishment, ditto) and potions (sickness, ditto) the
>> packrat owner could bring himself to leave behind.
>>
>>
>And spellbooks. 40 +s can get a bit too heavy to carry around.

Yes. More likely ten or so, as someone who gets 40 spellbooks
is likely good enough to ascend. I would expect a stash with
40 spellbooks to be rather deeper in the dungeon as well.
Probably out of the range of most players to find.

And wouldn't a stash with 40 spellbooks in it be a lovely find
for a Valkyrie? ;^)

Do people playing Valkyries bother to pick up or stash
spellbooks? Do other character classes bother with spellbooks
in schools they can't advance in?


It would be interesting just to see what kind of stashes get
left behind. My original suggestion was for stash-bones only
when a player died on a non-bones level.

I'd like to add any level with a non-empty container with a
broken lock to the ones qualifying for a stash bones. Maybe any
level with a fully identified object by the downstairs (for
players that hadn't found a container yet.)

I predict most of the stash-bones would be worthless or next to
it. The largest effect would be players looking over their
shoulder to find out what killed the previous player on an
obvious bones level. (Lack of a grave can occur with a regular
bones level. Corpses frequently rot away before the next player
finds the site of the death.)

--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 11:57:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <umqvg1l29ed0l2dualcgrbpb0477sa4ceh@4ax.com>, Jove says...

> Yes. More likely ten or so, as someone who gets 40 spellbooks
> is likely good enough to ascend.

I must have had about 60 including duplicates and blanks ... *sniff*

> Do other character classes bother with spellbooks
> in schools they can't advance in?

I had all spells in restricted classes at 0% failure for levels 3 and below
(magic missile, charm monster etc), and 36% or so for level 4. Cancellation
at a hilarious 93% after taking off shield and gauntlets o' power. Priest,
lvl 21, base int 16, +5 Mitre, robe, small shield, [GoP.
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 6:16:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jove wrote:

> Do people playing Valkyries bother to pick up or stash
> spellbooks?

Only if there's a shop nearby and I need money.

Raisse, killed by a newt, while helpless
--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 8:07:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Raisse the Thaumaturge <raisse@valdyas.org> writes:
> Jove wrote:

> > Do people playing Valkyries bother to pick up or stash
> > spellbooks?

> Only if there's a shop nearby and I need money.

I tend to read them even though I neve cast them as a valkyrie.
Just to add to the list of known spells..

--
Jukka Lahtinen
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 9:29:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jove wrote:
> Do people playing Valkyries bother to pick up or stash
> spellbooks? Do other character classes bother with spellbooks
> in schools they can't advance in?

Hel, yes. A high-level valk with maxed stats, a well-enchanted
helm of brilliance, and casting-friendly armor (probably means taking
off the gauntlets of Mojo-throwing) makes a perfectly good caster. Not a
lot of Power and failure percentages on most spells, but most spells
don't need to necessarily work on the first try, and the ones that do
(attack spells, mostly) are the ones that valks can advance in. And even
in the early game, when I can't cast worth a damn, and probably can't
even read the books, I collect them and stash them so I know where to
find them later when they become useful.

Remove curse and identify are incredibly valuable, whether you
can advance in those schools or not, and don't need 0% failure rates.
Magic missile is a great ranged attack for anyone, and all classes can
get it to acceptably low failure rates, even the classes that can't
advance attack spells. Pri is restricted in attack, and I ascended my
priestess using magic missile as her primary offense for most of the
late game (she found Frost Brand, but she was an atheist and so had no
way to get unrestricted in long sword, so she was pretty ineffectual
with it... plus there's a whole lot of cold-resistant opposition in the
endgame).

And, anyway, I usually don't know what school a spellbook
belongs to until I've either actually read it, or IDed it, which usually
doesn't happen until after I've already stashed it. Especially for poor
casters that can't just shoot off an identify spell on a whim.

--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 10:51:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jukka Lahtinen wrote:
> Raisse the Thaumaturge <raisse@valdyas.org> writes:
>> Jove wrote:

>>> Do people playing Valkyries bother to pick up or stash
>>> spellbooks?

>> Only if there's a shop nearby and I need money.

> I tend to read them even though I neve cast them as a valkyrie.
> Just to add to the list of known spells..

I usually don't: I take the cheapest book and read it once, for a means
of confusion. After that, I normally leave them alone, to avoid contact
poisons, random teleports with paralysation, general confusion, and the
like.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 12:11:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 23:33:39 -0500, Jove wrote:


> Do people playing Valkyries bother to pick up or stash
> spellbooks? Do other character classes bother with spellbooks in schools
> they can't advance in?

I tend to be a clean-dungeon packrat, so yeah. My current wiz got a
bonesfile from my I-thought-she'd-ascend-then-YAReallySD Valkyrie that was
loaded with spellbooks. Medusa, here I come. :) 

--
- Mantar --- Drop YourPantiesSirWilliam to email me.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 12:58:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jove wrote:
>
> Do people playing Valkyries bother to pick up or stash
> spellbooks?

Spellbooks appear during altar camping. Some even
tune luck to make it as likely as possible. While a
spellcaster would tune luck to maximize either books
or AC and a combat wombat would tune luck to maximize
only AC, tuning is hard to acheive and books do
appear. May as well use any devine gift.

Cone of cold spells rules on water levels like Medusa or
deep swamp ones. True for any character class. A spell
doesn't run out the same way as a wand, so you can carve
a path on any swamp level with the spell. So what that
a wizard who's Expert at attack schools gets an ice
bomb effect where a Valk who's Basic gets a straight
line (maybe even with bounce) wand effect? Getting to
Medusa or the down stairs is what you want on such levels
not freezing all but a couple of squares because it's
fun.

> Do other character classes bother with spellbooks
> in schools they can't advance in?

Definitely. Even at 60% failure, the identify spell
can be used a lot more often than a hoard of identify
scrolls.

That doesn't work for time-critical spells. Face
Pestilance and you want 0% failure on extra healing
not 43% failure. That leaves plenty of spells that
are not time critical. Add in a robe, and kit out
with mostly non-metalic armor and unskilled but known
can be good enough. Fortunately many of the better
final kit armor have non-metalic or spell-friendly
options. T-shirt or Hawaiian no problem. Any-DSM
no problem. Any type of cloak no problem. None of
the good types of boots have a lot of effect on spells.
Speed, water walking, jump are (always or usually?)
leather not iron. Dexerity gloves are arguably
better than power for any non-Valk and even with
Valk the machine-gun effect of Mojo is not always
needed.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 10:52:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 07:57:45 GMT, Andrew Kerr
<andykerr@SPAMGUARD.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <umqvg1l29ed0l2dualcgrbpb0477sa4ceh@4ax.com>, Jove says...
>
>> Yes. More likely ten or so, as someone who gets 40 spellbooks
>> is likely good enough to ascend.
>
>I must have had about 60 including duplicates and blanks ... *sniff*

My condolences. The Dread Lord YASD strikes again?


This may help the case for stash bones. If the stash wasn't
enough to keep alive the player that built it up, then how much
good will it really be to the player who finds it?

>
>> Do other character classes bother with spellbooks
>> in schools they can't advance in?
>
>I had all spells in restricted classes at 0% failure for levels 3 and below
>(magic missile, charm monster etc), and 36% or so for level 4. Cancellation
>at a hilarious 93% after taking off shield and gauntlets o' power. Priest,
>lvl 21, base int 16, +5 Mitre, robe, small shield, [GoP.

If you had Cancellation at 93% failure then polymorph would
have
should have had a lower failure rate. If you'd found polymorph,
of course. The polymorph spell allows polymorphing objects
without all that tedious polypiling.

I'm using it now as a level 18 wizard and wearing a robe with
4% failure. Create and #offer a few monsters at my altar, then
poly their stuff a few times. Just got 4 +4 elven daggers.
Got my favorite boots of water walking a little before. Very
genteel compared to polypiling.


Again, condolences on meeting The Dread Lord YASD (TM).
--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 11:09:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 28 Aug 2005 08:58:05 -0700, "Doug Freyburger"
<dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Jove wrote:
>>
>> Do people playing Valkyries bother to pick up or stash
>> spellbooks?
>
>Spellbooks appear during altar camping. Some even
>tune luck to make it as likely as possible. While a
>spellcaster would tune luck to maximize either books
>or AC and a combat wombat would tune luck to maximize
>only AC, tuning is hard to acheive and books do
>appear. May as well use any devine gift.

Can't be argued with.

>
>Cone of cold spells rules on water levels like Medusa or
>deep swamp ones. True for any character class. A spell
>doesn't run out the same way as a wand, so you can carve
>a path on any swamp level with the spell. So what that
>a wizard who's Expert at attack schools gets an ice
>bomb effect where a Valk who's Basic gets a straight
>line (maybe even with bounce) wand effect? Getting to
>Medusa or the down stairs is what you want on such levels
>not freezing all but a couple of squares because it's
>fun.

Definitely agree. (As with most of the responses to
my post.) I'll go to great lengths to have boots of
water walking *and* freeze a path. In some ways the lower
skill level cone of cold is an improvement over the actual
cone since the ray/beam gives much finer control.

>
>> Do other character classes bother with spellbooks
>> in schools they can't advance in?
>
>Definitely. Even at 60% failure, the identify spell
>can be used a lot more often than a hoard of identify
>scrolls.
>
>That doesn't work for time-critical spells. Face
>Pestilance and you want 0% failure on extra healing
>not 43% failure.

Cure sickness should be at close to 0% failure in
those circumstances. Doesn't it get that "emergency
spell" boost?

>That leaves plenty of spells that
>are not time critical. Add in a robe, and kit out
>with mostly non-metalic armor and unskilled but known
>can be good enough. Fortunately many of the better
>final kit armor have non-metalic or spell-friendly
>options. T-shirt or Hawaiian no problem. Any-DSM
>no problem. Any type of cloak no problem. None of
>the good types of boots have a lot of effect on spells.
>Speed, water walking, jump are (always or usually?)
>leather not iron.

I'm not sure if the buckled boots interfere with spells
or not. Even if so it's probably less than kicking boots,
which I've worn without noticing the negative effect.

>Dexerity gloves are arguably
>better than power for any non-Valk and even with
>Valk the machine-gun effect of Mojo is not always
>needed.


Indeed, posters have pointed out before that despite the
differences between classes and races, they all end up similarly
equipped. (They regard this as a minor drawback in Nethack.)
The main choices come down to CoMR/Robe (with a vocal minority
for Displacement.) The other choice is type of Dragon scale
mail, which frequently comes down to gray/silver. Speed boots
are univerally loved.

The usefulness of the "off-line" spells is easily great
enough (ID and RC particularly) to offset difficulties in
casting them. (As I am now convinced.)

This knocks in the head my "one spell school is all you really
need to advance it." It had pretty much been given up anyway,
once I realized that there was no guarentee you get all, or
indeed any, of the spells in a spell school in a given game.

In my current game I used Drain Life to kill off the eels, etc.
on Medusa because Force Bolt missed too much. No other attack
spells available.

I asked my original question because a) as a Hum-Wiz-Cha
specialist my judgement is questionable and b) I'm still fighting
my packrat instinct to pick up everything, useful or not.

An excellent post, Doug, pretty well summing up all the
responses I've seen so far. Only the Valkyrie selling spellbooks
for money was missing.


--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 11:11:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 18:51:14 +0200, "Boudewijn Waijers"
<kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:

>Jukka Lahtinen wrote:
>> Raisse the Thaumaturge <raisse@valdyas.org> writes:
>>> Jove wrote:
>
>>>> Do people playing Valkyries bother to pick up or stash
>>>> spellbooks?
>
>>> Only if there's a shop nearby and I need money.
>
>> I tend to read them even though I neve cast them as a valkyrie.
>> Just to add to the list of known spells..
>
>I usually don't: I take the cheapest book and read it once, for a means
>of confusion. After that, I normally leave them alone, to avoid contact
>poisons, random teleports with paralysation, general confusion, and the
>like.

Blessed spellbooks can always be read with no ill effects. Any
spellbook gifted by your god is blessed. Whether blessing the
other spellbooks is worth it is up to you.

You might want to at least price-id them, then try for cone of
cold. Other posts describe other ways of taking advantage of
spells as a Valkyrie.

>
>--
>Boudewijn.

--
All the best,

Jove
!