Obvious Question

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I'm sure I've heard this before, but I was wondering what is the
reputed easiest class to assend with.

 

[Guest]

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DJ Delzbin wrote:
> I'm sure I've heard this before, but I was wondering what is the
> reputed easiest class to assend with.

Valkyrie and Barbarian.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

DJ Delzbin wrote:
>
> I'm sure I've heard this before, but I was wondering what is the
> reputed easiest class to assend with.

Different people will have different answers. many
years ago I would have answered priest because they
can tell uncursed items without altars. Now maybe
valk maybe wizard.

 

[Guest]

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DJ Delzbin <delzbin@comcast.net> writes:
> I'm sure I've heard this before, but I was wondering what is the
> reputed easiest class to assend with.
^^^^^^
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Anyway, the easiest class with which to ascend depends largely on your
style of play, and what things normally prevent you from
ascending. Knowing what you're doing is much more important to your
ascension chances than class (or race), and differences largely even
out by the endgame anyway.

My suggestions would be:

1. Barbarian. Poison resistant, good carrying capacity and handy in
straightforward combat. (My pick, because fatal poison is my personal
number one cause of YA[AS]D.)

2. Valkyrie. Good starting armor that gets a whole lot better when you
find just about anything other than another shield. Easy wishless
sacless Excalibur. Decent physical stats. Probably the most popular
choice.

3. Priest. Ability to auto-BUC-ID is quite handy, and something no other
class has. Bad if you are in the habit of walking up to every monster
and hitting it until it dies or you do. Good if you are too lazy to
cart every piece of armor you see in the mines to the altar.

Happy hacking.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

DJ Delzbin wrote:
> I'm sure I've heard this before, but I was wondering what is the
> reputed easiest class to assend with.

Valkyrie.


--
If geiger counter does not click,
the coffee, she is just not thick

 

[Guest]

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Douglas Henke <henke@kharendaen.dyndns.org> wrote:
>2. Valkyrie. Good starting armor that gets a whole lot better when you
> find just about anything other than another shield. Easy wishless
> sacless Excalibur.

.... if you are Lawful.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\_\/_/ meteorites are outta sight but this one's place is in outer space
\ / if you wanna know i'll tell you why it's cause radiation makes you die
\/ -- Zombina and the Skeletones, "Meteorite"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

DJ Delzbin wrote:

> I'm sure I've heard this before, but I was wondering what is the
> reputed easiest class to assend with.

From what I have observed, Computer Science 101 is the easiest class in
which to ascend. The other classess require the students to pay attention.

***observations by a sys admin at a University probably not near you***

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> Boudewijn Waijers writes:
> > anon wrote:
>
> > > But if you're the impatient type, it's almost equally impossible to
> > > die in the early game with a samurai (expert in both melee and range
> > > weapons, and two-weaponing). The only problem, of course, is the lack
> > > of magic resistance.
>
> > If you count lack of MR as a serious problem, all classes but the wizard
> > would pose a problem. In my experience, lack of magic resistance only
> > starts to bite from dungeon level 8 and deeper, where you get polymorph
> > traps.
>
> Same here. Reflection is way more important.

In the early game agreed. Over the years there have been
plenty of posts about death from getting the bag not the
amulet in Sokoban and then encountering wands of lightning
or worse before getting reflection. Lack of MR is fatal
somewhere between the VofD and the VS, but its problems
become rarer and rarer as you get more shallow. Before
L's start to appear it is much less time critical compared
to reflection.

I think MC=3, reflection and MR are so important that if
I have the opportunity I'll have them redundant. Getting
MC=3 redundant would mean mithril rather than either SDSM
or GDSM. As a result the closest I ever get to it is
having a couple of spare MC=3 cloak types in the bag.
Getting either of the others redundant depends on the
Quest artifact. I can imagine a wizard wearing both SDSM
and "oR along with [oMR plus the Eye of misspelling plus
MB wielded most of the time.

But I also don't think the three are equally time critical.
MC=3 becomes important as soon as you face sting attacks
in the early levels. Reflection becomes important when
attack wand become common. Magic resistance can make
exploration easier by not worrying about ploymorph traps
but it only becomes really crucial when facing spell
casters powerfull enough to suceed in the destroy armor
spells.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, DJ Delzbin wrote:

> I'm sure I've heard this before, but I was wondering what is the reputed
> easiest class to assend with.

In my opion: Barbarians. Others prefer Valkyries.

--
Philipp Lucas
phlucas@online-club.de

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

DJ Delzbin wrote:

> I'm sure I've heard this before, but I was wondering what is the
> reputed easiest class to assend with.

For a first ascension, reputedly valkyrie, then barbarian (as proven by
the records in the past). Wizard is also high on the list, but this may
be because lots of people prefer to play a spellcaster, and with more
games played, there are also more ascension chances. The relative number
of wizards compared to the number played is less impressive.

My first ascension and only was a knight, by the way (10 years ago on
August 1).

I don't know what would be the easiest class to ascend with (*all*
ascensions, not just first ascensions). I think the wizard would qualify
here, but have no numbers to back up this claim.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me

 

[ANON]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

DJ Delzbin <delzbin@comcast.net> wrote:

> I'm sure I've heard this before, but I was wondering what is the
> reputed easiest class to assend with.

To me, "easiest" includes more than fighting skill. For sheer
convenience, you can't beat wizards who can basically do EVERYTHING in
addition to having lethal fighting skills - i.e. teleport, identify,
heal, tame, immunity to magic and curses. And their ability to attack
from an Elbereth-protected square actually makes them the strongest and
safest class in the early game.

But if you're the impatient type, it's almost equally impossible to die
in the early game with a samurai (expert in both melee and range
weapons, and two-weaponing). The only problem, of course, is the lack of
magic resistance.

 

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anon wrote:

> But if you're the impatient type, it's almost equally impossible to
> die in the early game with a samurai (expert in both melee and range
> weapons, and two-weaponing). The only problem, of course, is the lack
> of magic resistance.

If you count lack of MR as a serious problem, all classes but the wizard
would pose a problem. In my experience, lack of magic resistance only
starts to bite from dungeon level 8 and deeper, where you get polymorph
traps. And even those may sometimes be noticed in advance, if you use
your blindfold regularly and detect monsters having disappeared and
being replaced by other monsters on the other side of the screen.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:

> anon wrote:
>
> > But if you're the impatient type, it's almost equally impossible to
> > die in the early game with a samurai (expert in both melee and range
> > weapons, and two-weaponing). The only problem, of course, is the lack
> > of magic resistance.
>
> If you count lack of MR as a serious problem, all classes but the wizard
> would pose a problem. In my experience, lack of magic resistance only
> starts to bite from dungeon level 8 and deeper, where you get polymorph
> traps.

Same here. Reflection is way more important.

Best,
Jakob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Quoting Douglas Henke <henke@kharendaen.dyndns.org>:
>DJ Delzbin <delzbin@comcast.net> writes:
>>I'm sure I've heard this before, but I was wondering what is the
>>reputed easiest class to assend with.
>3. Priest. Ability to auto-BUC-ID is quite handy, and something no other
> class has. Bad if you are in the habit of walking up to every monster
> and hitting it until it dies or you do. Good if you are too lazy to
> cart every piece of armor you see in the mines to the altar.

Priest I don't think is easier, assuming an implied "for a novice"; the
Priest's BUC-ID comes in most handy once you have the experience to
exploit all the data.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is First Wednesday, August.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 24 Aug 2005 11:49:37 -0700, "Doug Freyburger"
<dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:

>DJ Delzbin wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure I've heard this before, but I was wondering what is the
>> reputed easiest class to assend with.
>
>Different people will have different answers. many
>years ago I would have answered priest because they
>can tell uncursed items without altars. Now maybe
>valk maybe wizard.


Once you've got a wizard to the late game, yes, unstoppable
killing machine is the phrase. Of course, that's where
valks seem to start having problems.

Valkyries seem to have a much easier early game. (Man,
why does a non-spellcasting Valk start with a +3 small shield,
the best shield for spellcasting? Maybe to leave them in bones
for spellcasters to find?)

Wizards work a lot harder to survive the early game. Plus
you need to know a lot more about Nethack's various skill
systems and other workings (prayer, altars, spell effects, etc.)
to best play a wizard (imho, at least) while Valkyries have their
own deep and subtle strategy of "Valk smash!" (Roleplaying for
the hard of thinking? ;^) The "thinking optional" role I believe
someone called it.


--
All the best,

Jove

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Gary Olson wrote:
> DJ Delzbin wrote:
>
>> I'm sure I've heard this before, but I was wondering what is the
>> reputed easiest class to assend with.
>
>
> From what I have observed, Computer Science 101 is the easiest class in
> which to ascend. The other classess require the students to pay attention.
>
> ***observations by a sys admin at a University probably not near you***

You never know, I might happen to be near you, but I would be surprised.

And as for all those people saying Val... take a look at my new high
score that I have set to my signiture. Woot a whole 1975 points before
death. All right so I got careless and took on a black pudding knowing
how hard they hard they are. (Yes I've had higher scores than that,
but my high score list got distroyed with the rest of my hard drive a
while back... sigh)

--
3.4.3 1975 Val Dwa Fem Law Silent B,killed by a black pudding

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jove <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Once you've got a wizard to the late game, yes, unstoppable
>killing machine is the phrase. Of course, that's where
>valks seem to start having problems.

My valkyries don't have problems in the late game, except with the slog
out of Gehennom if they're Lawful.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\_\/_/ meteorites are outta sight but this one's place is in outer space
\ / if you wanna know i'll tell you why it's cause radiation makes you die
\/ -- Zombina and the Skeletones, "Meteorite"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jove <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:

> Once you've got a wizard to the late game, yes, unstoppable
> killing machine is the phrase. Of course, that's where
> valks seem to start having problems.

Even though the Orb of Fate weighs a ton, I'd recommend keeping it in
your main inventory, since it effectively doubles your hitpoints.
Reduce the other stuff you carry around to avoid being burdened.
Eva.

--
Eva Myers, Computer Officer, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge
Email: erm1001@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/
Ignorance and deception can't save anybody. *Knowing* saves them.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 2005-08-26, Martin Read wrote:
> Jove <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Once you've got a wizard to the late game, yes, unstoppable
>>killing machine is the phrase. Of course, that's where
>>valks seem to start having problems.
>
> My valkyries don't have problems in the late game, except with the slog
> out of Gehennom if they're Lawful.

I agree that valks are also easy late-game. I think it's mostly due to
the Orb's halving damage.

Ohle
--
Jann Ohle Claussen | GPG-Key-ID E7149169
http://www.stud.uni-goettingen.de/~s251251
BOFH Excuse #43:
boss forgot system password

 

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On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:02:34 -0500, Jove wrote:
> Wizards work a lot harder to survive the early game. Plus
> you need to know a lot more about Nethack's various skill systems and
> other workings (prayer, altars, spell effects, etc.) to best play a wizard
> (imho, at least) while Valkyries have their own deep and subtle strategy
> of "Valk smash!" (Roleplaying for the hard of thinking? ;^) The
> "thinking optional" role I believe someone called it.

I think wizards are actually not too bad. Once you get identify and Magic
Missle, (and of course MagicBane), everything else is kind of minor. My
first ascention was with a Wizard, and IIRC he (she?) hacked everything to
pieces with a +2 MagicBane, or blasted it to pieces with top-ranked Magic
Missle/FoD. I think there was a cone of cold in there too... But ID is
key - it makes re-supply in Gehennom a breeze, and Eye + FoD is a great
combo! I even went to level 30 (yes, I know, it's frowned upon) and maxed
out all my skills. It took a looong time, but I was never in danger of
dying once I got past the quest.

--LWM

 

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Little White Mouse wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:02:34 -0500, Jove wrote:
>
>> Wizards work a lot harder to survive the early game. Plus
>>you need to know a lot more about Nethack's various skill systems and
>>other workings (prayer, altars, spell effects, etc.) to best play a wizard
>>(imho, at least) while Valkyries have their own deep and subtle strategy
>>of "Valk smash!" (Roleplaying for the hard of thinking? ;^) The
>>"thinking optional" role I believe someone called it.
>
>
> I think wizards are actually not too bad. Once you get identify and Magic
> Missle, (and of course MagicBane), everything else is kind of minor. My
> first ascention was with a Wizard, and IIRC he (she?) hacked everything to
> pieces with a +2 MagicBane, or blasted it to pieces with top-ranked Magic
> Missle/FoD. I think there was a cone of cold in there too... But ID is
> key - it makes re-supply in Gehennom a breeze, and Eye + FoD is a great
> combo! I even went to level 30 (yes, I know, it's frowned upon) and maxed
> out all my skills. It took a looong time, but I was never in danger of
> dying once I got past the quest.

Actually I'd say that levelling wizard to max is not frowned on.

But writing that I realize that it isn't true to some persons writing in
this newsgroup so if you think they own the truth feel free.

Writing that I strongly suggest that this issue is noted as one of the
controvercies in the FAQ and promise if it added there never to mention
it again.

Topi
--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
"How come he didn't put 'I think' at the end of it?" - Anonymous

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 04:32:40 GMT, Little White Mouse
<little.mouse@verizon.com> wrote:
>I think wizards are actually not too bad. Once you get identify and Magic
>Missle, (and of course MagicBane), everything else is kind of minor. My
>first ascention was with a Wizard, and IIRC he (she?) hacked everything to
>pieces with a +2 MagicBane, or blasted it to pieces with top-ranked Magic
>Missle/FoD. I think there was a cone of cold in there too... But ID is
>key - it makes re-supply in Gehennom a breeze, and Eye + FoD is a great
>combo! I even went to level 30 (yes, I know, it's frowned upon) and maxed
>out all my skills. It took a looong time, but I was never in danger of
>dying once I got past the quest.
>

Oh, I agree completely! (I can't make myself play anything but
Wiz-Hum-Cha, I'm so spoiled.)

But it took me a long time to learn how to cast spells to begin
with, and much longer to remember to try. Then spell-friendly
armor, finding spellbooks I could read, engraving Elbereth
with Magicbane, heck, *getting* Magicbane, etc.

I remember how happy I was that magic missile had a reasonable
failure rate with metallic body armor (with reasonable care about
accessory armor).

It also took me a long time to figure out the skill system.
I was slow, for sure, but that's extra stuff Valk's don't need to
worry about as much. (Got Mojo skill maxed? Done.)


As for character level, it's the experience you gain after
level 30 that counts. You still get Hp and Pwr gains even though
you don't go up from level 30. Max your Con (rings) and Wis
(HoB) to increase the Hp and Pwr gained respectively.

I recently posted with my methods of gaining as much experience
as possible. Forgot to add that a chaotic human character
sacrificing a human zombie or human mummy corpse always summons a
peaceful major demon, regardly of the "age" of the human corpse.
Since that major demon has a good chance of being a foocubus....

My first ascension was a Wizard as well, after finding every
single way a powerful wizard could die to the Dread Lord YASD.


--
All the best,

Jove

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Little White Mouse wrote:

> I think wizards are actually not too bad. Once you get identify and
> Magic Missle, (and of course MagicBane), everything else is kind of
> minor.

My current character is a wizard as well, at turn appr. 154000, having
all spells (only one spell not at 0% failure rate) and still maintaining
her Elberethless, genocideless, wishless, polypileless and polymorphless
conducts (she also doesn't write any scrolls or spellbooks and doesn't
use alchemy, short of blessing and cursing things).

Her armour isn't what I am used to when not adhering to this conduct,
but with an armour class of -52 (without a shield!), she manages to get
by...

> I even went to level 30 (yes, I know, it's frowned upon)

Not with a wizard, it isn't. And even with other classes, opinions about
this are shifting, lately. Recent calculations show that in the endgame,
it doesn't matter much whether you're level 14 or level 30.

It does make a difference at the start of the game, though.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me

 

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On 2005-08-30, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>
> My current character is a wizard as well, at turn appr. 154000, having
> all spells (only one spell not at 0% failure rate) and still maintaining
> her Elberethless, genocideless, wishless, polypileless and polymorphless

Well, *still* maintaining those conducts shouldn't be too hard when
you're already at that point
The polyfoolessness surprises me, though. Who are you and what did you
do to Boudewijn?

> conducts (she also doesn't write any scrolls or spellbooks and doesn't
> use alchemy, short of blessing and cursing things).
>
> Her armour isn't what I am used to when not adhering to this conduct,
> but with an armour class of -52 (without a shield!), she manages to get
> by...
>
That's quite impressive. -52AC without wishing or writing scrolls, but I
guess after that many turns...


--
Jann Ohle Claussen | GPG-Key-ID E7149169
http://www.stud.uni-goettingen.de/~s251251
BOFH Excuse #187:
Reformatting Page. Wait...

 

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Ohle Claussen wrote:
> On 2005-08-30, Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> Well, *still* maintaining those conducts shouldn't be too hard when
> you're already at that point

> The polyfoolessness surprises me, though. Who are you and what did you
> do to Boudewijn?

I'm mainly a packrat, who likes a clean dungeon. That's why I hate
tunneling creatures: they leave behind too much rubble. Where's the
Dungeon Beautifying Committee when you need them?

>> Her armour isn't what I am used to when not adhering to this conduct,
>> but with an armour class of -52 (without a shield!), she manages to
>> get by...

> That's quite impressive. -52AC without wishing or writing scrolls,
> but I guess after that many turns...

Armor
b - a blessed +5 T-shirt (being worn)
c - a blessed +1 silver dragon scale mail (being worn)
d - a blessed +5 robe (being worn)
f - a blessed +5 pair of speed boots (being worn)
g - a blessed +2 pair of leather gloves (being worn)
h - a blessed +4 dwarvish iron helm (being worn)

That's a naked AC of -12, by the way.

Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me