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A case of nerves

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Anonymous
a b α HP
August 25, 2005 7:30:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

OK, I'm getting really nervous. This wizard game is promising, I think. But
I'm trying the protection racket and 11 hp is sooooo scary! I've been
through the dungeon levels 1-5 and haven't found the entrance to the Mines
yet. There are some empty map areas I haven't found the secret doors for
yet.

I've been letting my cat (now large) do all the fighting when possible, but
still have 17 exp. Maybe I should unequip my quarterstaff to be safe?

I'm also a little worried about food. Haven't prayed yet. At present:

Zubin the Evoker St:16 Dx:11 Co:15 In:20 Wi:12 Ch:8 Chaotic
Dlvl:3 $:1134 HP:11(11) Pw:14(14) AC:4 Xp:1/17 T:3454

Weapons
a - a blessed +1 quarterstaff
Armor
b - an uncursed +0 cloak of magic resistance (being worn)
p - an uncursed +0 iron skull cap (being worn)
Comestibles
l - a tin of spinach
H - a cheeseburger
Scrolls
i - an uncursed scroll of remove curse
j - an uncursed scroll of enchant weapon
k - an uncursed scroll of teleportation
w - an unlabeled scroll
A - a scroll of light
D - an uncursed scroll of light
L - an uncursed scroll of enchant armor
R - a scroll labeled KERNOD WEL
Y - a scroll labeled LEP GEX VEN ZEA
Spellbooks
m - a spellbook of knock
o - a light green spellbook
z - a spellbook of confuse monster
Potions
f - an uncursed potion of blindness
h - an uncursed potion of speed
u - an uncursed potion of invisibility
O - an uncursed potion of restore ability
T - a cyan potion
V - a bubbly potion
W - a ruby potion
Z - a murky potion
Rings
d - an uncursed +4 ring of protection (on right hand)
e - an uncursed ring of stealth (on left hand)
r - an uncursed ring of conflict
Wands
c - a blessed wand of cancellation (0:8)
g - a wand called mkinvis-or-teleport
Tools
n - an uncursed wooden harp
q - an expensive camera
t - a flute
U - a magic marker
Gems
J - a black gem

Just got that Str 16 from my first tin of spinach (gained 5). I've got
unlocated vaults on 1 and 2, a bookstore on 3 where I've been gaining money,
and a co-aligned altar on 4. I don't know what instrinsics, if any, I've
gained; I don't recall any special messages. I'm an elf.

Any advice on keeping Zubin alive is most appreciated! If this one dies I'll
be crushed. :) 

Cheers!
Ben

More about : case nerves

Anonymous
a b α HP
August 25, 2005 7:30:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Ben Kimball wrote:
> Any advice on keeping Zubin alive is most appreciated! If this one dies I'll
> be crushed. :) 

To bless those enchant scrolls, you have the tools you need.

You found a co-aligned altar in the early levels. I'd say ditch the
protection racket, get your level up a little, and sacrifice for
Magicbane. You have an enchant weapon that you can bless and use on
Magicbane.

Failing that, at least bless that scroll of enchant armor and read it
(take the hat off while you do it).

I'd burn a charge from the wand of invis/teleport to find out which it
is.

Price-ID the unidentified scrolls.

BUC identify the blank scroll, then if you use the ?Teleport (or it
gets destroyed) write a new one if you don't have any other escape
methods; always have an escape method handy. Hopefully you won't have
to do this (maybe you'll find another one before using the old one or
something, or that wand tests out to be teleport and you get it
identified).

I'd sell the +, at least the identified ones.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 25, 2005 8:04:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> To bless those enchant scrolls, you have the tools you need.

Well, I (perhaps stupidly) blessed my identify scroll instead:

k - an uncursed scroll of teleportation
Y - an uncursed scroll of charging
S - an uncursed spellbook of cure sickness
U - a magic marker (0:68)

> You found a co-aligned altar in the early levels. I'd say ditch the
> protection racket, get your level up a little, and sacrifice for
> Magicbane. You have an enchant weapon that you can bless and use on
> Magicbane.

Actually, it turns out I have 2 uncursed scrolls of enchant weapon, though
I'm puzzled why they're not stacking. (Same with my 2 uncursed scrolls of
light.)

> I'd burn a charge from the wand of invis/teleport to find out which it
> is.

g - a wand of make invisible (0:5)

> I'd sell the +, at least the identified ones.

I admit I'd feel much safer at a higher level. Maybe protection is not for
me, as you say.

Cheers!
Ben
Related resources
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 26, 2005 1:32:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <BF339C85.BC0B%zubin@mail.utexas.edu>, Ben Kimball says...
> Actually, it turns out I have 2 uncursed scrolls of enchant weapon, though
> I'm puzzled why they're not stacking. (Same with my 2 uncursed scrolls of
> light.)
>

Could it be that you BUC ID'd one ?oEW and one ?oL before finding the others,
which were then BUC ID'd by the ?oID ? If so, drop one of each and pick up
again or use #adjust to stack them.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 26, 2005 1:32:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> Could it be that you BUC ID'd one ?oEW and one ?oL before finding the others,
> which were then BUC ID'd by the ?oID ? If so, drop one of each and pick up
> again or use #adjust to stack them.

It could be, and in fact it was. :)  Thanks!

Ben
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 26, 2005 3:21:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:30:40 -0500, Ben Kimball
<zubin@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:

>OK, I'm getting really nervous. This wizard game is promising, I think. But
>I'm trying the protection racket and 11 hp is sooooo scary! I've been
>through the dungeon levels 1-5 and haven't found the entrance to the Mines
>yet. There are some empty map areas I haven't found the secret doors for
>yet.
>
>I've been letting my cat (now large) do all the fighting when possible, but
>still have 17 exp. Maybe I should unequip my quarterstaff to be safe?

I've never even tried the protection racket, but a number of
people have said it's better to pay twice as much at level 2 than
die at the most efficient level for buying protection.

>
>I'm also a little worried about food. Haven't prayed yet.

I don't think you'll be able to pray for food, or anything,
until you've improved your alignment from its starting value.
Usually this is done by killing hostile monsters. :-(
Most classes start off with enough alignment to pray in an
emergency, but not, I believe, wizards.

>At present:
>
> Zubin the Evoker St:16 Dx:11 Co:15 In:20 Wi:12 Ch:8 Chaotic
> Dlvl:3 $:1134 HP:11(11) Pw:14(14) AC:4 Xp:1/17 T:3454
>
> Weapons
> a - a blessed +1 quarterstaff
> Armor
> b - an uncursed +0 cloak of magic resistance (being worn)
> p - an uncursed +0 iron skull cap (being worn)
> Comestibles
> l - a tin of spinach

Spinach is very nutritious. It will give you strength as well
in case you have to fight. It'll take awhile to open that tin
(unless it's blessed) so don't wait until the last second or
until you're in trouble.

Also remember you can throw tins (or any food, I believe)
at hostile dogs, cats, and horses to make them peaceful.

> H - a cheeseburger

If this is your fruit, you *may* be able to tame hostile
horses with it. If not tamed, they will be made peaceful.
Hostile dogs and cats will be made peaceful when thrown
food they won't eat.

Dogs and cats can also be tamed with fortune cookies,
if you find any.
Eggs seem to work sometimes.

> Scrolls
> i - an uncursed scroll of remove curse
> j - an uncursed scroll of enchant weapon

Not as critical since you don't want to kill anything anyway.

> k - an uncursed scroll of teleportation

Another nice emergency item.

> w - an unlabeled scroll
> A - a scroll of light
> D - an uncursed scroll of light

Don't hesitate to use this on an unlighted level,
preferably at or near the up/down stairs.

> L - an uncursed scroll of enchant armor

If only it were blessed. Might be worth using
anyway for the protection racket. A more experienced
racketeer might know.

> R - a scroll labeled KERNOD WEL
> Y - a scroll labeled LEP GEX VEN ZEA
> Spellbooks
> m - a spellbook of knock
> o - a light green spellbook
> z - a spellbook of confuse monster

Can you cast confuse monster at all? This is one of the few
spells that can be "pumped up". It doesn't time out either.
It will not decrease until you hit something in melee. Even
then it won't all be necessarily used up. Very useful to
cast this (if you can) whenever your Power is maxed and it
doesn't look like you're in trouble.

In fact, if you can cast this, then hitting monsters barehanded
in an emergency should confuse them with minimal chance of
killing them.

What's the light green spellbook? If uncursed (your large cat
can help determine this) try reading it. Wizards get a warning
(difficult, very difficult) when trying to read non-cursed
spellbooks that may be too hard for them, so nothing bad will
happen if non-cursed and you don't try to read it anyway.

If you can find out the light-green spellbook's level (actual
price divided by 100) try reading it if non-cursed and and it's
level 1. Ditto with other level 1 non-cursed spellbooks.

If you're lucky, it's an enchantment spell (wizards start with
basic skill in attack and enchantment). Enchantment spells are
very nice for pacifism, even short-term pacifism. If it's charm
monster, it may well be worth going up a character level to be
able to cast it. (Look carefully at its power requirements and
current failure rate before doing so.)

> Potions
> f - an uncursed potion of blindness
> h - an uncursed potion of speed

Wizards are slow so this is ery nice for an emergency. Be sure
to recognize an emergency when it happens. :-)

> u - an uncursed potion of invisibility

This will go very nicely in an emergency with your
ring of stealth.

> O - an uncursed potion of restore ability
> T - a cyan potion
> V - a bubbly potion
> W - a ruby potion
> Z - a murky potion
> Rings
> d - an uncursed +4 ring of protection (on right hand)

Lucky you.

> e - an uncursed ring of stealth (on left hand)

Very nice.

> r - an uncursed ring of conflict

Very tricky to use, since you want your cat to survive
and gain levels. (They can still improve after reaching
large cat size, I do believe.)

> Wands
> c - a blessed wand of cancellation (0:8)
> g - a wand called mkinvis-or-teleport
> Tools
> n - an uncursed wooden harp
> q - an expensive camera

This is nice, but negates the use of Elbereth on
any monster you use it on.

If trying to get past a monster, blind it and run.
If not, Elbereth in the dust a few times until you've got
a couple of good copies instead.


> t - a flute

If magic this will put monsters to sleep? Research this.
Price id should tell you if it's magic or not.

> U - a magic marker

This can be used for Elbereth. I think it's guaranteed
and better than fingers in the dust. I've used a magic
marker to successfully Elbereth in an emergency. It does
use marker charges, though.

> Gems
> J - a black gem

Try engraving a single letter with this. If it just writes in
the dust you can't engrave with it. If it engraves, engrave
"Elbereth" ONE LETTER AT A TIME someplace convenient. It will
take one turn per letter so do it in advance. Try other gems
the same way until you find one hard enough to engrave.

You can use edged weapons to engrave as well, you just won't
get a full Elbereth from one edged weapon unless it's got a
positive enchantment. So engrave with the useless edged weapons
you find before you sell them. Engrave your semi-permanent
Elbereths in convenient places that won't get scuffed by
peacefuls walking on them. Up/down stairs may be a good idea.

>
>Just got that Str 16 from my first tin of spinach (gained 5). I've got
>unlocated vaults on 1 and 2, a bookstore on 3 where I've been gaining money,
>and a co-aligned altar on 4. I don't know what instrinsics, if any, I've
>gained; I don't recall any special messages. I'm an elf.
>
Then you're sleep-resistant. If that spellbook is sleep (or
you find the wand) you're in good shape.

>Any advice on keeping Zubin alive is most appreciated! If this one dies I'll
>be crushed. :) 
>

Your dexterity isn't terrible so the flute and harp may be
worth a try in an emergency. Research their effects.



You've got a lot of emergency items, that's good. Getting
money and food is the tough part. I don't think you can pray
without raising above your starting alignment, which is not good.
The spinach is very nutritious, which is helps.

Keep your cat alive ;^) A fully developed large cat is
formidable. Try on all armor that your pet shows is non-cursed.
Check what the armor does to your spell failure rates, burdened
status, and armor class before deciding to wear it.

Mithril is good. You don't want to use spells for fighting
anyway. If you can cast confuse monster you can take the armor
off for that. Try on non-cursed shields for the same reason.
You won't be able to wear a shield and wield the quarterstaff
at the same time, but that doesn't look like a big deal. You
might find a non-cursed dagger to wield. You won't be able to
do much damage with it but it might make you feel better.

You should see more helms and boots than anything. So try
on all the ones your cat approves of in hopes of better
enchantments.

Wizards are slow. Boots of speed are worth buying,
probably even if cursed with a negative enchantment.
Wands of speed monster ditto. Spell of haste self is
beyond a level 1 wizard even if you do find the spellbook.



--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 26, 2005 3:38:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:30:40 -0500, Ben Kimball wrote:

> I'm also a little worried about food. Haven't prayed yet. At present:
>
> Zubin the Evoker St:16 Dx:11 Co:15 In:20 Wi:12 Ch:8 Chaotic
> Dlvl:3 $:1134 HP:11(11) Pw:14(14) AC:4 Xp:1/17 T:3454

Your alignment is fine, so you should be able to pray when weak for quite
some time. I wouldn't worry too much about food. I'd go up a level though,
that AC is poor and the protection racket is rough on a wizard without the
sleep spell. A few more HPs would easily offset the extra cost of
protection. Keeping costs down is no good if you don't live long enough to
make use of it.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 26, 2005 1:14:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Ben Kimball wrote:
> > To bless those enchant scrolls, you have the tools you need.
>
> Well, I (perhaps stupidly) blessed my identify scroll instead:

You should still have all the tools you need to make a few holy waters
anyway.

> U - a magic marker (0:68)

You could write several enchant armors if you have decent armor to use
them on.

Spoiler.
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
I think zapping /oCancellation at potions/scrolls will make water/blank
scrolls for you. If not, you'll have to wet them down somehow (might
be dangerous at level 1).
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 26, 2005 10:25:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:36:08 +0200
"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:

>*Everything* is better than dying.

However, how you die is important.
I would much rather die to a greater fire elemental ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H deep dragon ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H the wizard of yendor than to die to a grid bug.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 27, 2005 12:36:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jove wrote:
> Ben Kimball wrote:

> I've never even tried the protection racket, but a number of
> people have said it's better to pay twice as much at level 2 than
> die at the most efficient level for buying protection.

*Everything* is better than dying.

>> Zubin the Evoker St:16 Dx:11 Co:15 In:20 Wi:12 Ch:8 Chaotic
>> Dlvl:3 $:1134 HP:11(11) Pw:14(14) AC:4 Xp:1/17 T:3454
> Spinach is very nutritious. It will give you strength as well
> in case you have to fight. It'll take awhile to open that tin
> (unless it's blessed) so don't wait until the last second or
> until you're in trouble.

Eat it now. You're not satiated, and the added strength is something to
cherish.

> Also remember you can throw tins (or any food, I believe)
> at hostile dogs, cats, and horses to make them peaceful.

Potential pets are not impressed by tinned food. Most other food will
do, though, depending on what that particular pet will eat.

> If this is your fruit, you *may* be able to tame hostile
> horses with it. If not tamed, they will be made peaceful.

I think you may tame them with it, but I'm not sure either.

> Eggs seem to work sometimes.

Unreliable, since they will sometimes *splat!*.

> If only it were blessed. Might be worth using
> anyway for the protection racket. A more experienced
> racketeer might know.

Just as useful for a racketeer as for any other character. I'd wait to
get it blessed.

> This is nice, but negates the use of Elbereth on
> any monster you use it on.

Personally, I never use Elbereth anyway. It feels like cheating all the
way. I only write it when I am testing wands, since then, it doesn't
matter what I write anyway. I don't remember where I wrote it, anyway,
so it doesn't help my game.

>> Just got that Str 16 from my first tin of spinach (gained 5). I've
>> got unlocated vaults on 1 and 2, a bookstore on 3 where I've been
>> gaining money, and a co-aligned altar on 4. I don't know what
>> instrinsics, if any, I've gained; I don't recall any special
>> messages. I'm an elf.

> Then you're sleep-resistant.

No. Elves get sleep resistance only at level 3, and the OP was level 1,
and trying to stay at that level. The only intrinsic he starts with is
infravision, IIRC.

> Your dexterity isn't terrible so the flute and harp may be
> worth a try in an emergency. Research their effects.

In advance.

> You've got a lot of emergency items, that's good. Getting
> money and food is the tough part. I don't think you can pray
> without raising above your starting alignment, which is not good.
> The spinach is very nutritious, which is helps.

Not having much money does not help with playing the protection racket.
But remember that the first donation is always the most important one,
so 400 GP is usually sufficient.

> Wands of speed monster ditto. Spell of haste self is
> beyond a level 1 wizard even if you do find the spellbook.

The wand should, especially, be used on your pet, making it more
effective in combat.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 27, 2005 12:36:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Boudewijn Waijers" <kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> writes:
> *Everything* is better than dying.

Everything except panics, trickeries, save-scumming and doing harm
(bodily or economic) to Izchak, that is.

Must keep some perscpetive.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 27, 2005 2:40:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:36:08 +0200, "Boudewijn Waijers"
<kroisos@REMOVETHISWORD.home.nl> wrote:

>Jove wrote:
>> Ben Kimball wrote:
>
>> I've never even tried the protection racket, but a number of
>> people have said it's better to pay twice as much at level 2 than
>> die at the most efficient level for buying protection.
>
>*Everything* is better than dying.

In theory I agree with you. In practice when a nymph took my
Cloak of MR when I first stepped into the room, then took more
stuff before I'd made it half way to the upstairs, I #quit.
It was the coward's way out. But I play the game for fun
(at least, that's what I keep telling myself during the black
depression following YASD.) and that was just too much hassle
on top of trying to keep an early wizard alive.

>
>>> Zubin the Evoker St:16 Dx:11 Co:15 In:20 Wi:12 Ch:8 Chaotic
>>> Dlvl:3 $:1134 HP:11(11) Pw:14(14) AC:4 Xp:1/17 T:3454
>> Spinach is very nutritious. It will give you strength as well
>> in case you have to fight. It'll take awhile to open that tin
>> (unless it's blessed) so don't wait until the last second or
>> until you're in trouble.
>
>Eat it now. You're not satiated, and the added strength is something to
>cherish.

Probably much better long term thinking. Should give some more
carrying capacity even if he doesn't want to fight before buying
protection. And the strength will still be there for fighting
afterwards.

>
>> Also remember you can throw tins (or any food, I believe)
>> at hostile dogs, cats, and horses to make them peaceful.
>
>Potential pets are not impressed by tinned food. Most other food will
>do, though, depending on what that particular pet will eat.

They won't be tamed, but I'm 99.9% certain they'll go peaceful.
I've slowly learned to appreciate that quality in a monster.

>
>> If this is your fruit, you *may* be able to tame hostile
>> horses with it. If not tamed, they will be made peaceful.
>
>I think you may tame them with it, but I'm not sure either.
>
>> Eggs seem to work sometimes.
>
>Unreliable, since they will sometimes *splat!*.

Very true. I'm afraid most of my advice had an unwritten "Try
this *before* you're in trouble" attached.

>
>> If only it were blessed. Might be worth using
>> anyway for the protection racket. A more experienced
>> racketeer might know.
>
>Just as useful for a racketeer as for any other character. I'd wait to
>get it blessed.
>

Now I'm curious what this is commenting on. :-). Pretty sure
it was the scroll of enchant armor. If I was doing the
protection racket (which I never have) it'd be all or nothing.

The +1 armor enchantment *now* might be enough to get at least
another +1 divine protection, and possibly more. I try to
remember that even a blessed scroll of enchant armor might only
give one more point of enchantment anyway.

>> This is nice, but negates the use of Elbereth on
>> any monster you use it on.
>
>Personally, I never use Elbereth anyway. It feels like cheating all the
>way. I only write it when I am testing wands, since then, it doesn't
>matter what I write anyway. I don't remember where I wrote it, anyway,
>so it doesn't help my game.
>

For me as a Tolkien fanatic from way back, it's perfect.
Middle-Earth was created by singing, so words having power makes
perfect sense. (Now letters in an arbitrary alphabet affecting
illiterates and dumb animals....)

Some people are in favor of a "non-Elbereth" conduct. I can
see their point, but I suspect the DevTeam doesn't want to
discourage its use in any way. For so many players (myself
included) it's part of that tall first step to an ascension.


>>> Just got that Str 16 from my first tin of spinach (gained 5). I've
>>> got unlocated vaults on 1 and 2, a bookstore on 3 where I've been
>>> gaining money, and a co-aligned altar on 4. I don't know what
>>> instrinsics, if any, I've gained; I don't recall any special
>>> messages. I'm an elf.
>
>> Then you're sleep-resistant.
>
>No. Elves get sleep resistance only at level 3, and the OP was level 1,
>and trying to stay at that level. The only intrinsic he starts with is
>infravision, IIRC.

Damn. That's interesting. So, would eating the corpse of a
level 2 Elf from a bones file still have a chance of bestowing
sleep resistance? (The things we trouble-makers think of.)

>
>> Your dexterity isn't terrible so the flute and harp may be
>> worth a try in an emergency. Research their effects.
>
>In advance.

Oh yes! Thank you for bringing that up. As I noted earlier,
most of my advice should be tried out in a non-emergency
situation.

>
>> You've got a lot of emergency items, that's good. Getting
>> money and food is the tough part. I don't think you can pray
>> without raising above your starting alignment, which is not good.
>> The spinach is very nutritious, which is helps.
>
>Not having much money does not help with playing the protection racket.
>But remember that the first donation is always the most important one,
>so 400 GP is usually sufficient.
>
>> Wands of speed monster ditto. Spell of haste self is
>> beyond a level 1 wizard even if you do find the spellbook.
>
>The wand should, especially, be used on your pet, making it more
>effective in combat.

Definitely. Probably even before the character, just in case.


--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 27, 2005 4:04:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

noah bedford wrote:
> "Boudewijn Waijers" wrote:

>> *Everything* is better than dying.

> However, how you die is important.
> I would much rather die to a greater fire elemental ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H
> ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H deep dragon ^H ^H ^H
> ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H ^H the wizard of yendor than to die to a grid
> bug.

Personally, I couldn't care less. Dead is dead. Every dead character is
the same.

The only difference to me is the possible bones level. And then, I would
much rather encounter a grid bug than a fire elemental.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 27, 2005 4:19:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jove wrote:
> "Boudewijn Waijers" wrote:

>> *Everything* is better than dying.

> In theory I agree with you. In practice when a nymph took my
> Cloak of MR when I first stepped into the room, then took more
> stuff before I'd made it half way to the upstairs, I #quit.
> It was the coward's way out. But I play the game for fun
> (at least, that's what I keep telling myself during the black
> depression following YASD.) and that was just too much hassle
> on top of trying to keep an early wizard alive.

But I consider such games the most fun!

Games where everything seems to come naturally (say, a wand of wishing
on level 3) are not interesting at all. Only games that make you think
carefully and consider your options are challenging.

[ Spinach ]

>> Eat it now. You're not satiated, and the added strength is something
>> to cherish.

> Probably much better long term thinking. Should give some more
> carrying capacity even if he doesn't want to fight before buying
> protection. And the strength will still be there for fighting
> afterwards.

Not only will your strength be better (more carrying capacity), but you
will also have less to carry! :-)

> They won't be tamed, but I'm 99.9% certain they'll go peaceful.
> I've slowly learned to appreciate that quality in a monster.

You may be correct, I'd have to check. Anyway, this only works for some
f, d and u, so it's not very ofteh you get to use this.

>> Unreliable, since they will sometimes *splat!*.

> Very true. I'm afraid most of my advice had an unwritten "Try
> this *before* you're in trouble" attached.

Well, throwing things that are not appreciated to peaceful dogs and cats
may *get* you into trouble, so even before you're in trouble, you
shouldn't try everything... :-)

>>> If only it were blessed. Might be worth using
>>> anyway for the protection racket. A more experienced
>>> racketeer might know.

>> Just as useful for a racketeer as for any other character. I'd wait
>> to get it blessed.

> Now I'm curious what this is commenting on. :-). Pretty sure
> it was the scroll of enchant armor. If I was doing the
> protection racket (which I never have) it'd be all or nothing.

It was commenting on that scroll, yes.

> The +1 armor enchantment *now* might be enough to get at least
> another +1 divine protection, and possibly more. I try to
> remember that even a blessed scroll of enchant armor might only
> give one more point of enchantment anyway.

I meant that armour providing armour class has no influence on the
protection racket other than on normal games. You want both AC from
donations *and* from worn armour, but the latter has no effect on the
protection racket in itself.

>> Personally, I never use Elbereth anyway. It feels like cheating all
>> the way. I only write it when I am testing wands, since then, it
>> doesn't matter what I write anyway. I don't remember where I wrote
>> it, anyway, so it doesn't help my game.

> For me as a Tolkien fanatic from way back, it's perfect.
> Middle-Earth was created by singing, so words having power makes
> perfect sense. (Now letters in an arbitrary alphabet affecting
> illiterates and dumb animals....)

Exactly. I cannot imagine Gandalf scribbling Elbereth on the floor while
fighting a balrog. Then again, perhaps that was why he fell down...

:-)

> Some people are in favor of a "non-Elbereth" conduct. I can
> see their point, but I suspect the DevTeam doesn't want to
> discourage its use in any way. For so many players (myself
> included) it's part of that tall first step to an ascension.

I thought you didn't care what the Dev Team found acceptable? In fact,
conducts are just this: refraining from things that the Dev Team does
not want to disable, but only to discourage. I guess not using Elbereth
does not even fall into either category, since the Dev Team would
otherwise have disabled it long ago, or at least have added it as a
conduct (now, there's only the illiterate conduct that discourages it).


>> No. Elves get sleep resistance only at level 3, and the OP was level
>> 1, and trying to stay at that level. The only intrinsic he starts
>> with is infravision, IIRC.

> Damn. That's interesting. So, would eating the corpse of a
> level 2 Elf from a bones file still have a chance of bestowing
> sleep resistance? (The things we trouble-makers think of.)

I don't think that being able to gain a resistance from a corpse is
necessarily related to the monster having the resistance itself. For
example, a kobold is poisonous but cannot confer poison resistance,
while a unicorn is non-poisonous but *can* confer the resistance.

Usually, the two are connected, though.

> Oh yes! Thank you for bringing that up. As I noted earlier,
> most of my advice should be tried out in a non-emergency
> situation.

With the added disadvantage that you may lose a valuable charge or anger
a peaceful creature.

>>> Wands of speed monster ditto. Spell of haste self is
>>> beyond a level 1 wizard even if you do find the spellbook.

>> The wand should, especially, be used on your pet, making it more
>> effective in combat.

> Definitely. Probably even before the character, just in case.

In the case of, say, samurai, *only* on pets, since they're already fast
themselves and don't need it again.

--
Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 27, 2005 7:13:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> noah bedford wrote:
> > "Boudewijn Waijers" wrote:
>
> >> *Everything* is better than dying.
>
> > However, how you die is important.
>
> Personally, I couldn't care less. Dead is dead. Every dead character is
> the same.
>
> The only difference to me is the possible bones level. And then, I would
> much rather encounter a grid bug than a fire elemental.

Surviving characters ascend or escape the dungeon without
the Amulet (often to live in wealth from the treasure
they have gathered).

Dying characters can have a wider range. YASD, YAAD, quit,
learned enough about the character class to move on to the
next, you name it. I'd rather die gloriously in combat
(YAAD) then die ignominiously from a mistake (YASD).
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 28, 2005 6:07:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <nc3tg1hjqo6utfauslpfi290fd6nn6nghs@4ax.com>,
Jove <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:30:40 -0500, Ben Kimball <zubin@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:

>>OK, I'm getting really nervous. This wizard game is promising, I think. But
>>I'm trying the protection racket and 11 hp is sooooo scary!

Here's a spoiler that I've been using in early protection racket games:

[Spoiler space]
















If you pray when your actual hit points are below 6, your god will not only heal
you to your max hit points, but add up to 5 extra if your current max hit points
are 14 and below. So I usually let a jackal or a grid bug do a bit of damage once
I'm sure my prayer timeout has elapsed.

It's kind of dangerous work. Not enough damage and you can't get the benefit. Too
much damage and well, you die. I usually try to position such that the pet is on
one side of a corridor and the combatant on the other. Something like:

##j@#d###

Once the jackal has done enough damage I switch s places with the pet and let them
take out the jackal while I heal with the extra hit points.

>>I've been
>>through the dungeon levels 1-5 and haven't found the entrance to the Mines
>>yet. There are some empty map areas I haven't found the secret doors for
>>yet.

You need to find that entrance. You have the skull cap, so falling rock traps
are nullified. You have the large cat. So you should be good except for traps
like spiked pits and those nasty rolling boulder traps.

>>I've been letting my cat (now large) do all the fighting when possible, but
>>still have 17 exp. Maybe I should unequip my quarterstaff to be safe?

> I've never even tried the protection racket, but a number of
>people have said it's better to pay twice as much at level 2 than
>die at the most efficient level for buying protection.

That's a possibility. The extra hit points can be useful. I've even done
the protection racket on occasion at level 3.

>>I'm also a little worried about food. Haven't prayed yet.
>
> I don't think you'll be able to pray for food, or anything,
>until you've improved your alignment from its starting value.
>Usually this is done by killing hostile monsters. :-(

Kobold zombies are great for this. They only cost 3 points of XP.

>Most classes start off with enough alignment to pray in an
>emergency, but not, I believe, wizards.

He has 17 XP. So he must have some alignment built up.

[Lots of great ideas snipped]

BAJ
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 30, 2005 5:27:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jove wrote:
> Some people are in favor of a "non-Elbereth" conduct. I can
> see their point, but I suspect the DevTeam doesn't want to
> discourage its use in any way. For so many players (myself
> included) it's part of that tall first step to an ascension.

But there are conducts for things that are much harder to do without
(weaponless, atheist, foodless).

I'd be in favor of it, though I don't really care too much.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 30, 2005 6:03:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Dying characters can have a wider range. YASD, YAAD, quit,
>learned enough about the character class to move on to the
>next, you name it. I'd rather die gloriously in combat
>(YAAD) then die ignominiously from a mistake (YASD).

Hate to rain on your parade, but the vast majority of glorious deaths in
combat only happen as a result of operator error, and are hence YASD
unless you are an inexperienced player. (The major exception there
being the "buried alive in a summoning storm on the Planes" type of
glorious death in combat that showed up when summoners started summoning
at range.)
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\_\/_/ meteorites are outta sight but this one's place is in outer space
\ / if you wanna know i'll tell you why it's cause radiation makes you die
\/ -- Zombina and the Skeletones, "Meteorite"
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 30, 2005 6:37:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Martin Read wrote:
> the vast majority of glorious deaths in
> combat only happen as a result of operator error, and are hence YASD
> unless you are an inexperienced player. (The major exception there
> being the "buried alive in a summoning storm on the Planes" type of
> glorious death in combat that showed up when summoners started summoning
> at range.)

I'll argue that those represent a failure to properly prepare for the
Planes, and are therefore also operator error.


--
"Ruleless 'law' will be a political weapon and control of the
judiciary will therefore be a political prize. 'Democracy' will
consist of the chaotic struggle to influence decision makers who are
not responsive to elections." -- Robert Bork
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 31, 2005 2:34:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Rast <rast2@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Martin Read wrote:
>> the vast majority of glorious deaths in
>> combat only happen as a result of operator error, and are hence YASD
>> unless you are an inexperienced player. (The major exception there
>> being the "buried alive in a summoning storm on the Planes" type of
>> glorious death in combat that showed up when summoners started summoning
>> at range.)
>
>I'll argue that those represent a failure to properly prepare for the
>Planes, and are therefore also operator error.

The later ones, yes. The first few were *not* operator error, as people
had not yet discovered that the Planes had become substantially more
deadly because Archons could summon nasties around you without being next
to you. (It was particularly disastrous if you hadn't genocided
arch-liches.) All but the most absurdly overcooked characters got into
severe trouble if a summoning storm really got going.

Subsequent versions of Nethack changed the behaviour that caused
summoning storms, by preventing summoners from calling wizardly monsters
whose monstr value was greater than or equal to their own, and by making
long-range summons appear around the summoner rather than the player.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\_\/_/ meteorites are outta sight but this one's place is in outer space
\ / if you wanna know i'll tell you why it's cause radiation makes you die
\/ -- Zombina and the Skeletones, "Meteorite"
Anonymous
a b α HP
September 3, 2005 9:19:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Martin Read wrote:
> Rast <rast2@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Martin Read wrote:
> >> the vast majority of glorious deaths in
> >> combat only happen as a result of operator error, and are hence YASD
> >> unless you are an inexperienced player. (The major exception there
> >> being the "buried alive in a summoning storm on the Planes" type of
> >> glorious death in combat that showed up when summoners started summoning
> >> at range.)
> >
> >I'll argue that those represent a failure to properly prepare for the
> >Planes, and are therefore also operator error.
>
> The later ones, yes. The first few were *not* operator error, as people
> had not yet discovered that the Planes had become substantially more
> deadly because Archons could summon nasties around you without being next
> to you. (It was particularly disastrous if you hadn't genocided
> arch-liches.) All but the most absurdly overcooked characters got into
> severe trouble if a summoning storm really got going.

Using a ring of conflict does not count as "overcooked".

That's pretty much all it took.


--
"Ruleless 'law' will be a political weapon and control of the
judiciary will therefore be a political prize. 'Democracy' will
consist of the chaotic struggle to influence decision makers who are
not responsive to elections." -- Robert Bork
!