YANI: load/transfer command

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Hi All,

something that would be very handy that I haven't seen is a command to
move stuff from the floor into a container, or vice versa. #load,
#transfer, something like that. It'd be really useful for cache
management and polypiling. Loading a chest with goodies, then have to
extract them a dozen or two at a time to get them on the floor is
*annoying*... and runs the (slight) chance of dropping stuff you weren't
planning to.

That last one is your own fault, of course, but it's still annoying to
have to check what you're dropping.

This could be either 'works only on the floor' (put the container down,
move the stuff in from/out to the floor), or I suppose it could be a
little more 'generic' -- when picking stuff up, if you have a container
ask whether it should go into main or into the container.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Keith Davies wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> something that would be very handy that I haven't seen is a command to
> move stuff from the floor into a container, or vice versa. #load,
> #transfer, something like that. It'd be really useful for cache
> management and polypiling. Loading a chest with goodies, then have to
> extract them a dozen or two at a time to get them on the floor is
> *annoying*... and runs the (slight) chance of dropping stuff you weren't
> planning to.
>
> That last one is your own fault, of course, but it's still annoying to
> have to check what you're dropping.
>
> This could be either 'works only on the floor' (put the container down,
> move the stuff in from/out to the floor), or I suppose it could be a
> little more 'generic' -- when picking stuff up, if you have a container
> ask whether it should go into main or into the container.

Not a bad idea. You realize that the items would still travel through
your inventory so no #transfer of loadstone out of container without it
stucking onto you?

It might be implemented by having first a from-prompt which defaults to
'-' and containers carried, where '-' means ground, and a to-prompt the
same way. If ground specified then if there is any containers on the
ground they are prompted individually and if none selected or there
weren't any then the items on the ground is the target (of from or to).

This would let you move items from container to container, container to
floor and floor to container and the container could be on the floor or
in the inventory.

The item selection could be done the same way as the existing container
content selection is done. As this allows handling of many items the
action shouldn't be instantenous but take time based on the number of
items (# items / free slots in the inventory?).

Comments anyone.

Meanwhile you might try this patch to help your problem:

http://www.netsonic.fi/~walker/nethack.html#itemcat

The P let's you reselct the items you just picked or took out an container.

Topi
--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
"How come he didn't put 'I think' at the end of it?" - Anonymous

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Topi Linkala <nes@iki.fi> wrote:
> Keith Davies wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> something that would be very handy that I haven't seen is a command to
>> move stuff from the floor into a container, or vice versa. #load,
>> #transfer, something like that. It'd be really useful for cache
>> management and polypiling. Loading a chest with goodies, then have to
>> extract them a dozen or two at a time to get them on the floor is
>> *annoying*... and runs the (slight) chance of dropping stuff you weren't
>> planning to.
>>
>> That last one is your own fault, of course, but it's still annoying to
>> have to check what you're dropping.
>>
>> This could be either 'works only on the floor' (put the container down,
>> move the stuff in from/out to the floor), or I suppose it could be a
>> little more 'generic' -- when picking stuff up, if you have a container
>> ask whether it should go into main or into the container.
>
> Not a bad idea. You realize that the items would still travel through
> your inventory so no #transfer of loadstone out of container without it
> stucking onto you?

That's fine. It's not intended to avoid that. I don't mind having
loadstones stick in inventory[1], and stuff you can't pick up should
stay on the floor (or in the container, assuming you find a giant in an
ice box or some such), it's just saving the tedium of 'pick up into
main, put on floor/into container' that I'd like to avoid.

[1] not entirely true. I'd be annoyed with myself if I picked up a
loadstone, especially since I've learned how to avoid that.
However, from a *design* perspective, I don't mind that it models
'pick up into main, put into $destination'.

> It might be implemented by having first a from-prompt which defaults to
> '-' and containers carried, where '-' means ground, and a to-prompt the
> same way. If ground specified then if there is any containers on the
> ground they are prompted individually and if none selected or there
> weren't any then the items on the ground is the target (of from or to).
>
> This would let you move items from container to container, container to
> floor and floor to container and the container could be on the floor or
> in the inventory.

that suits, I think. I don't mind it being a complex command, I just
hate trying to transfer the contents of a cache to the floor to
polypiling (or dumping a BoH).

> The item selection could be done the same way as the existing
> container content selection is done. As this allows handling of many
> items the action shouldn't be instantenous but take time based on the
> number of items (# items / free slots in the inventory?).

I've got no problem with it taking an amount of time that it would take
to do by hand. Hell, even one item per turn (interruptible! You can
stop moving stuff and grab your weapon when something shows up) wouldn't
bother me.

> Comments anyone.
>
> Meanwhile you might try this patch to help your problem:
>
> http://www.netsonic.fi/~walker/nethack.html#itemcat

I'm unpatched and prefer to stay that way. While the full character
dump patch looks like it'd be handy on ascension, I'm still some way
from that -- Sokoban and Mine's End are common for me, but Quest isn't.

Thanks, though.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> something that would be very handy that I haven't seen is a command to
> move stuff from the floor into a container, or vice versa. #load,
> #transfer, something like that. It'd be really useful for cache
> management and polypiling. Loading a chest with goodies, then have to
> extract them a dozen or two at a time to get them on the floor is
> *annoying*... and runs the (slight) chance of dropping stuff you weren't
> planning to.

Pat Rankin commented couple years ago that the $NEXT version may contain
a #dump command, to empty a container: http://tinyurl.com/b57el

--
Pasi Kallinen
paxed@alt.org
http://bilious.homelinux.org/ -- NetHack Patch Database

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in
news:slrndh2emo.amu.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:

> Hi All,
>
> something that would be very handy that I haven't seen is a command to
> move stuff from the floor into a container, or vice versa. #load,
> #transfer, something like that. It'd be really useful for cache
> management and polypiling. Loading a chest with goodies, then have to
> extract them a dozen or two at a time to get them on the floor is
> *annoying*... and runs the (slight) chance of dropping stuff you weren't
> planning to.
>
> That last one is your own fault, of course, but it's still annoying to
> have to check what you're dropping.
>
> This could be either 'works only on the floor' (put the container down,
> move the stuff in from/out to the floor), or I suppose it could be a
> little more 'generic' -- when picking stuff up, if you have a container
> ask whether it should go into main or into the container.
>
>
> Keith

It would be even more annoying if you were killed by a monster coming in the
door and hitting you 10 times while you were still exchanging items due to
your transfers time factor.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chuck <chucko@nil.car> wrote:
> Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in
> news:slrndh2emo.amu.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:
>
>> something that would be very handy that I haven't seen is a command to
>> move stuff from the floor into a container, or vice versa. #load,
>> #transfer, something like that. It'd be really useful for cache
>> management and polypiling. Loading a chest with goodies, then have to
>> extract them a dozen or two at a time to get them on the floor is
>> *annoying*... and runs the (slight) chance of dropping stuff you weren't
>> planning to.
>>
>> That last one is your own fault, of course, but it's still annoying to
>> have to check what you're dropping.
>>
>> This could be either 'works only on the floor' (put the container down,
>> move the stuff in from/out to the floor), or I suppose it could be a
>> little more 'generic' -- when picking stuff up, if you have a container
>> ask whether it should go into main or into the container.
>
> It would be even more annoying if you were killed by a monster coming
> in the door and hitting you 10 times while you were still exchanging
> items due to your transfers time factor.

.... no, I suppose I didn't include 'interruptible' in the above
description. I did mention it in another post, though.

Just like eating, reading a spellbook, repeated resting/searching, and
so on. I'm pretty sure that if you're packing or unpacking a container
you'd be able to stop as soon as you saw something hostile come in.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Pasi Kallinen <paxed@alt.org> wrote:
> Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> something that would be very handy that I haven't seen is a command to
>> move stuff from the floor into a container, or vice versa. #load,
>> #transfer, something like that. It'd be really useful for cache
>> management and polypiling. Loading a chest with goodies, then have to
>> extract them a dozen or two at a time to get them on the floor is
>> *annoying*... and runs the (slight) chance of dropping stuff you weren't
>> planning to.
>
> Pat Rankin commented couple years ago that the $NEXT version may contain
> a #dump command, to empty a container: http://tinyurl.com/b57el

even that would be a start... though I'd appreciate if it went the other
way too. However, #dump could mean not having a loadstone in main (i.e.
you tip the BoH out and the loadstone just hits the floor), and possibly
that fragile things (potions and the like) get broken.

Incidentally, I discovered that in the game I Hearsed -- drop a potion
when you're #riding a dragon, it'll shatter.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in
news:slrndh4urn.e72.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:

> chuck <chucko@nil.car> wrote:
>> Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in
>> news:slrndh2emo.amu.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:
>>
>>> something that would be very handy that I haven't seen is a command to
>>> move stuff from the floor into a container, or vice versa. #load,
>>> #transfer, something like that. It'd be really useful for cache
>>> management and polypiling. Loading a chest with goodies, then have to
>>> extract them a dozen or two at a time to get them on the floor is
>>> *annoying*... and runs the (slight) chance of dropping stuff you weren't
>>> planning to.
>>>
>>> That last one is your own fault, of course, but it's still annoying to
>>> have to check what you're dropping.
>>>
>>> This could be either 'works only on the floor' (put the container down,
>>> move the stuff in from/out to the floor), or I suppose it could be a
>>> little more 'generic' -- when picking stuff up, if you have a container
>>> ask whether it should go into main or into the container.
>>
>> It would be even more annoying if you were killed by a monster coming
>> in the door and hitting you 10 times while you were still exchanging
>> items due to your transfers time factor.
>
> ... no, I suppose I didn't include 'interruptible' in the above
> description. I did mention it in another post, though.
>
> Just like eating, reading a spellbook, repeated resting/searching, and
> so on. I'm pretty sure that if you're packing or unpacking a container
> you'd be able to stop as soon as you saw something hostile come in.
>
>
> Keith
Then nethack has to keep track of what's left in the queue to resume. That's
why it's done the way it is to say nothing of encumberance.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chuck <chucko@nil.car> wrote:
> Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in
> news:slrndh4urn.e72.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:
>
>> ... no, I suppose I didn't include 'interruptible' in the above
>> description. I did mention it in another post, though.
>>
>> Just like eating, reading a spellbook, repeated resting/searching, and
>> so on. I'm pretty sure that if you're packing or unpacking a container
>> you'd be able to stop as soon as you saw something hostile come in.
>
> Then nethack has to keep track of what's left in the queue to resume.
> That's why it's done the way it is to say nothing of encumberance.

Why worry about a queue for resuming? If you're interrupted (and stop),
just issue the command again. Some get moved, some don't. If you get
interrupted and don't stop, it continues until you're done and
resumption isn't an issue.

If you're bulk moving stuff, you obviously don't care about order you
process them in. In fact, you could treat it as atomic -- you either
move everything, or you move nothing. It's no big deal.


As for encumberance, what about it? You don't need to hold a lot in
inventory at once, and I'd suggest that if you can't lift an item easily
-- it's too heavy, or you're already carrying too much weight -- you
skip it. Maybe give a message, "$item is too heavy to lift easily" so
the player knows without checking the square after that not everything
got moved.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chuck wrote:

> Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in
> news:slrndh4urn.e72.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:
>
>>Just like eating, reading a spellbook, repeated resting/searching, and
>>so on. I'm pretty sure that if you're packing or unpacking a container
>>you'd be able to stop as soon as you saw something hostile come in.
>
> Then nethack has to keep track of what's left in the queue to resume. That's
> why it's done the way it is to say nothing of encumberance.

But that shouldn't be any problem. Keeping a linked list of the selected
items with a static variables for the start of the list, from object or
position and to object or position. Only if the from and to still match
whatever they were set for then the transfer is continued from the top
of the list. Any item that is too heavy for lifting will be excluded
from the transfer and for those items that raise encumberance over a
limit additional time might be needed.

The timing might be like this: for one tick you can transfer half amount
of items of free inventory slots or up to when an item that raises
encumberance over the next limit is handled.

The halving of the free inventory slots is because the existing way
takes two ticks to transfer as many items as the inventory can handle if
encumberance is not exceeded. One to pick up or take out another to drop
or put in.

Do you want me to start coding?

Topi
--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
"How come he didn't put 'I think' at the end of it?" - Anonymous

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Topi Linkala <nes@iki.fi> wrote in news:dev7nj$lkp$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:

> chuck wrote:
>
>> Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in
>> news:slrndh4urn.e72.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:
>>
>>>Just like eating, reading a spellbook, repeated resting/searching, and
>>>so on. I'm pretty sure that if you're packing or unpacking a container
>>>you'd be able to stop as soon as you saw something hostile come in.
>>
>> Then nethack has to keep track of what's left in the queue to resume.
That's
>> why it's done the way it is to say nothing of encumberance.
>
> But that shouldn't be any problem. Keeping a linked list of the selected
> items with a static variables for the start of the list, from object or
> position and to object or position. Only if the from and to still match
> whatever they were set for then the transfer is continued from the top
> of the list. Any item that is too heavy for lifting will be excluded
> from the transfer and for those items that raise encumberance over a
> limit additional time might be needed.
>
> The timing might be like this: for one tick you can transfer half amount
> of items of free inventory slots or up to when an item that raises
> encumberance over the next limit is handled.
>
> The halving of the free inventory slots is because the existing way
> takes two ticks to transfer as many items as the inventory can handle if
> encumberance is not exceeded. One to pick up or take out another to drop
> or put in.
>
> Do you want me to start coding?

no, I don't think I personally like the idea. It takes some of the thinking
away from the game IMHO.

>
> Topi

All in all what I would add first and foremost would be macro capability to
nethack, so you could have "meta" commands.

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in
news:slrndh6hdf.t7b.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:

> chuck <chucko@nil.car> wrote:
>> Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in
>> news:slrndh4urn.e72.keith.davies@kjdavies.org:
>>
>>> ... no, I suppose I didn't include 'interruptible' in the above
>>> description. I did mention it in another post, though.
>>>
>>> Just like eating, reading a spellbook, repeated resting/searching, and
>>> so on. I'm pretty sure that if you're packing or unpacking a container
>>> you'd be able to stop as soon as you saw something hostile come in.
>>
>> Then nethack has to keep track of what's left in the queue to resume.
>> That's why it's done the way it is to say nothing of encumberance.
>
> Why worry about a queue for resuming? If you're interrupted (and stop),
> just issue the command again. Some get moved, some don't. If you get
> interrupted and don't stop, it continues until you're done and
> resumption isn't an issue.
>
> If you're bulk moving stuff, you obviously don't care about order you
> process them in. In fact, you could treat it as atomic -- you either
> move everything, or you move nothing. It's no big deal.
>
>
> As for encumberance, what about it? You don't need to hold a lot in
> inventory at once, and I'd suggest that if you can't lift an item easily
> -- it's too heavy, or you're already carrying too much weight -- you
> skip it. Maybe give a message, "$item is too heavy to lift easily" so
> the player knows without checking the square after that not everything
> got moved.
>
>
> Keith

It seems to be fighting against itself in terms of doing it and the
complexities (solvable granted, but they are there) required to do it. As in
my other post I think a macro capability would be better as that would allow
a player to do such if he so wished.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Keith Davies wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> something that would be very handy that I haven't seen is a command to
> move stuff from the floor into a container, or vice versa. #load,
> #transfer, something like that.

I like this idea - I'm a real packrat and cache management would be a
massive boon.

A related idea would be a command to sort the contents of a container
or even just a given square: If you have 300 bits of armour ina pile on
the floor in Ludios (as I have in my current game) it would be nice to
hit a key and have all the helmets grouped together in the list, all
the small shields, all the large shields, and so on. Makes it much
easier to read and to find that one item you are looking for, or to
sort out all the ones that still have to be IDed.

You can achieve this manually by picking up all items of a given types,
then dropping them, then repeating for each type. This is tedious
though, and you have to redo the whole lot every time you drop a new
item on the pile.

If you really wanted to be geeky about it, you could include options to
sort by BUC, by enchantment, by ID status...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chuck wrote:

> Topi Linkala <nes@iki.fi> wrote in news:dev7nj$lkp$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:
>
>>Do you want me to start coding?
>
> no, I don't think I personally like the idea. It takes some of the thinking
> away from the game IMHO.

Could you elaborate on that as I think that most people here think that
having to repatedly pick up and put in[1] is just tedious.

[1] Ditto for taking out and putting in or taking out and dropping.

Topi
--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
"How come he didn't put 'I think' at the end of it?" - Anonymous

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Pasi Kallinen wrote:
> dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote:
> >
> > A related idea would be a command to sort the contents of a container
> > or even just a given square: If you have 300 bits of armour ina pile on
> > the floor in Ludios (as I have in my current game) it would be nice to
> > hit a key and have all the helmets grouped together in the list, all
> > the small shields, all the large shields, and so on. Makes it much
> > easier to read and to find that one item you are looking for, or to
> > sort out all the ones that still have to be IDed.
> >
>
> You might want to take a look at the Sortloot-patch:
> http://www.netsonic.fi/~walker/nethack.html#sortloot

Yeah, that sounds about right, thanks. Now to nag those lovely Slashem
ppl about getting it included in there...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote:
>
> A related idea would be a command to sort the contents of a container
> or even just a given square: If you have 300 bits of armour ina pile on
> the floor in Ludios (as I have in my current game) it would be nice to
> hit a key and have all the helmets grouped together in the list, all
> the small shields, all the large shields, and so on. Makes it much
> easier to read and to find that one item you are looking for, or to
> sort out all the ones that still have to be IDed.
>

You might want to take a look at the Sortloot-patch:
http://www.netsonic.fi/~walker/nethack.html#sortloot

--
Pasi Kallinen
paxed@alt.org
http://bilious.homelinux.org/ -- NetHack Patch Database

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

dogscoff@eudoramail.com <dogscoff@eudoramail.com> wrote:
>
> Keith Davies wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> something that would be very handy that I haven't seen is a command to
>> move stuff from the floor into a container, or vice versa. #load,
>> #transfer, something like that.
>
> I like this idea - I'm a real packrat and cache management would be a
> massive boon.
>
> A related idea would be a command to sort the contents of a container
> or even just a given square: If you have 300 bits of armour ina pile on
> the floor in Ludios (as I have in my current game) it would be nice to
> hit a key and have all the helmets grouped together in the list, all
> the small shields, all the large shields, and so on. Makes it much
> easier to read and to find that one item you are looking for, or to
> sort out all the ones that still have to be IDed.
>
> You can achieve this manually by picking up all items of a given types,
> then dropping them, then repeating for each type. This is tedious
> though, and you have to redo the whole lot every time you drop a new
> item on the pile.
>
> If you really wanted to be geeky about it, you could include options to
> sort by BUC, by enchantment, by ID status...

Oh, that's nice. Sort the list alphabetically by name, then BUC (or
vice-versa).


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <slrndh2emo.amu.keith.davies@kjdavies.org>, Keith Davies says...
> Hi All,
>
> something that would be very handy that I haven't seen is a command to
> move stuff from the floor into a container, or vice versa. #load,
> #transfer, something like that. It'd be really useful for cache
> management and polypiling. Loading a chest with goodies, then have to
> extract them a dozen or two at a time to get them on the floor is
> *annoying*... and runs the (slight) chance of dropping stuff you weren't
> planning to.

My vapourware Qt4 interface could allow drag-and-drop of items to/from
containers and the floor.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1125390890.636647.251050@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
says...
> A related idea would be a command to sort the contents of a container
> or even just a given square: If you have 300 bits of armour ina pile on
> the floor in Ludios (as I have in my current game) it would be nice to
> hit a key and have all the helmets grouped together in the list, all
> the small shields, all the large shields, and so on. Makes it much
> easier to read and to find that one item you are looking for, or to
> sort out all the ones that still have to be IDed.
>
Definitely something that Qt4VapourHack will support. Keeping sorting
orders for each container or even square would be nice but I assume would
affect save files.

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> Could you elaborate on that as I think that most people here think that
> having to repatedly pick up and put in[1] is just tedious.
>
> [1] Ditto for taking out and putting in or taking out and dropping.
>
> Topi

I'm refering to the paying attention while transferring as a monster comes in
the door so to speak. Probably a trivial part, but it could be affected.