Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (
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On 1 Sep 2005 07:56:37 -0700, "Doug Freyburger"
<dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Andrew Kerr wrote:
>> Doug Freyburger says...
>>
>> > Interesting that you aren't interested in reaching Expert
>> > at wielded weapons. I've always considered that more
>> > skilled equals better and I never looked closely at what
>> > the price would be.
>>
>> That used to be my attitude too. It changed over the last couple of weeks
>> from looking more closely at the spoilers, reading rgrn and getting to high
>> level more often. Skilled -> Expert gives +1 to hit and +1 to damage. It
>> takes 3 slots, the same as Unskilled -> Basic -> Skilled for a total of +6
>> to hit and +3 to damage. I just don't think Expert is worth it.
>
>Numerical analysis using hard data. Tastes great,
>more fullfilling. ;^)
Right on. While I'm a great proponent of even one more point
of damage per hit, three skill slots can definitely be too high a
price.
I know I've held off advancing spell skills to expert because
of the skill slot cost. Now an early wizard advancing dagger
skill to expert becomes questionable. Three more skill slots
for advancing a wizard's spell skills in the mid-game look mighty
good.
On the one hand, the current strategy of advancing dagger to
Expert asap definitely works. On the other hand, now that
I'm using daggers so much better, Expert's probably not
necessary.
On the gripping hand a primary stack of at least five daggers,
or two stacks of 3-4 each, would be necessary to really take
advantage of expert dagger skill (which is something I'd noticed
before), since on a given turn you can only throw what's in your
current stack of daggers.
So don't #enhance dagger to expert until you've got the
stack(s) to justify it. Then do so only if it seems necessary.
Eventually I'll probably end up going to expert, just as I
maximize strength and enchant Magicbance to +6/7, to get
Magicbane to where it's worth using as a weapon.
(In my last game, there were no enchant weapon scrolls until
late. The difference between +0 Magicbane and +5 Magicbane is
very noticable, and very welcome. And at +5 Magicbane still
offers the chance of cancellation, which surprised me when it
happened.)
differe
>
>> One annoying thing with declining to advance skills is that Nethack doesn't
>> inform you when more skills are available to enhance.
>
>I disagree. If I decline to enhance long sword and then I
>switch to broadsword, it will tell me when "You feel more
>confident in your skills" with the broadsword. It only
>declines to tell you when you become able to enhance twice
>in the same class. More importantly it will issue messages
>like "You feel more experienced. Welcome to level 24. You
>feel more confident in the skills."
>
>What would be nice is a message suggesting that once more
>skill slots open you will be able to enhance them, so I
>don't completely disagree just partially disagree. Doing
>an #enhance command under 3.4.x now shows which skills are
>maxed out (it doesn't get them right every time so you need
>to know what you maxes are in every class to figure out what
>ones are really maxed) and also which ones are subject to
>enhancement once there are more skill slots available. So
>the information is available. The information has to be
>polled since there are no messages.
I had enough trouble working out the skill system in the
first place that I habitually check the #enhance screen
every so often.
>
>> > and apparently only knights
>> > can get to Expert only in lance and no one can get to Expert
>> > in polearms.
>>
>> Correct. The knight's move attack is the most useful anyway, as the target
>> cannot hit back if trapped.
>
>This does suggest a strategy using a polearm or lance
>and constantly jumping around to avoid getting hit in
>melee, as Jove mentioned. Could be a good early strategy
>by a knight using the first polearm or lance or a fun
>mid-game strategy once jumping boots are encountered.
>Thinking about it I am dubious that it would be worth an
>early wish to ask for blessed +3 fireproof boots of jumping.
No, definitely not. Without polearms or jousting jumping
is just a nice extra. Especially as polearms are unlikely
to be more than just a nice tool, wonderful in the appropriate
situation, but not a serious weapon for anyone other than
an aficiando.
But for knights that get *both*, from the start, for free,
jumping and jousting almost look like they were designed for each
other.
Proper use of #jumping and jousting might make the knight one
of the easiest early classes.
<snip discussion of polearms>
--
All the best,
Jove