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How to Fry a 1.4GHz Athlon in 4 seconds

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July 19, 2001 3:13:16 AM

LOL! in 4 secs money down the drain, buy more AMD cpus because their stock is in the crapper! RMA's must be killing AMD, LOL! Roflmao!

LOL, there's gotta be more stories like this out there.

<A HREF="http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=762" target="_new">only morons find value in a burnt offering</A>



"AMD/VIA...you <i>still</i> are the weakest link, good bye!"
July 19, 2001 3:23:50 AM

That's the guy's own stupidity dude.....Don't start putting down AMD for things they didnt do wrong.....

-MeTaL RoCkEr
My <font color=red> Z28 </font color=red> can take your <font color=blue> P4 </font color=blue> off the line!
July 19, 2001 3:53:50 AM

Yea, looks like user error. BTW, do you spend all your time looking for negative AMD articles?

:smile: <font color=green>I wonder...what is the speed of gravity!<font color=green> :smile:
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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
July 19, 2001 4:30:00 AM

I've done that :)  :( 
July 19, 2001 5:11:56 AM

Flame

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... :smile: Yummy :smile:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
July 19, 2001 5:12:40 AM

from the main page of his link


Everything looks good, but then I screwed up...



" I SCREWED UP" he says

--call it what you wish, with this machine I can make mercury flow in 3 directions at once--
July 19, 2001 5:17:33 AM

The only thing is that you could buy three 1.4ghz T-Birds for every 1.8ghz P4 with money left over. Melt away I say, you will save money. Plus you never know when someone might give you one for free.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 07/19/01 01:19 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 19, 2001 5:57:17 AM

AMDmeltdown I shoot flaming poo gas at you.

my 1.4 will arrive soon (I sold my 1.33) and if the heat sink is even touching the Heat sink without a fan touching it, it'll still take several seconds, if not minutes for it to fry. It takes a big error to kill it that fast (as in no heat sink contact).
July 19, 2001 7:21:08 AM

Excellent read, I booked marked that link. :smile:
July 19, 2001 1:21:30 PM

Actually I think this post points out the downside of cpu shims, and not AMD chips. Gee I wonder why my gig Athlon will do 1450mhz, without a hiccup, maybe because I know how to install a heatsink, your pathetic.

<b>"These are my thoughts, your mileage may vary."
July 19, 2001 1:36:39 PM

Its easy to fry a tbird in 4 seconds if you're a d*ckless moron like amdmeltdown, who wouldn't know how to properly install a cpu/hsf if his mommy walked him through it in small words so he can understand, with the promise of a cookie if he did it right.

GO AWAY TROLL!

~Matisaro~
"Friends don't let friends buy Pentiums"
~Tbird1.3@1.55~
July 19, 2001 2:30:13 PM

I personally have nver liked AMD, although they are on the right track and are threatening Intel in every which way. Both companies have played a risk by choosing to go in seperate paths with their ram of choice (i.e. a parallel to a VHS / Beta war, AC vs. DC war), and it really ends up being the consumer who determines the fate of the successor.

Intel on the one hand has a very large Die-size on the P4 which makes it very costly to produce and gives a larger amount of failed chips at the manufacturing labs. This is why they cost so much. Intel has made the largest marketing campaing in processor history to make their P4 a success and will do whatever it takes to make sure they don't lose the control in the mainstream processor market, and due to the fact that the average consumer looks at Intel as a reliable company that they know of and trust, plus take a look at the good old Hzs and choose Intel.

AMD on the other hand is able to produce their chips at a good cost due to a smaller die size, but they are really fragile and a lot of people end up with key-chains when mounting the heatsink. They produce a lot of heat, due to the heavy power consumption, but are able to pull off better performance than the P4 in most applications. Price for performace AMD is the way to go, but there is a risk involved that it will be instable, cause you grief with IRQ conflicts. Really, AMD has come a long way from the company that I knew that made the alternative that no one heard of to Intel's 486's, the heavily incompatible and instable k6's, then the Athlon which brought them out of the stone age in the mass public, but with a slew of it's own problems. Now, they are threatening Intel to take the lead in the Processor market, in not just low-end to mid-range home/office market, but the high-end worksatation and server market too.

I would have to say that the fate of what happens between these two companies depends on the success of the Northwood/Tualatin or the Athlon 4 when they are released. I don't like to make assumptions about these products based on specs like most people do, I personally will build up systems with both in the computer store where I work and decide which one I prefer.

My idea about a good system is stability before performance, I like to leave my computer on from the moment I put it together to the moment I upgrade and never have to worry about it. That is why I have not yet upgraded from the P3B-F (440BX chipset).

Now, about the article of the 1.4 Ghz being fried. It is not at all AMD's fault, that guy was a pure fool not to mount the heatsink correctly, you should ALWAYS check that the heatsink is firmly against all parts of the die. I for one have had many problems with AMD, but never fried a processor. When a processor gets fried it is USER ERROR, not a companies fault.

Typical problems for the new T-birds versions B and C are the chipsets and conflicts/stability problems. This is why I still stick with the P3 and an Intel 440BX chipset. In my opinion the only company that makes a good chipset is Intel and the 440BX was the last really good chipset they made. The 815EP is also a great chipset, but not even close to the stability of the 440BX.

Anyway, I tried to be as unbiased as possible and not piss off any Intel or AMD lovers out there. I am just making an informed opinion based on factual information and practical experience from building comps from the days of XT's (that was uncommon back then to build your own computer, everyone wanted a genuine IBM, to have a clone was frowned upon, and to build your own was unheard of). I hope I was of help.

I personally think it will be exciting to see the release of these new processors.


My System: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417&lt;/A>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
July 19, 2001 2:46:22 PM

Well said OmegaX. Good to see someone trying to be impartial.

:smile: Too damn hot in that kitchen!
July 19, 2001 2:55:51 PM

Thanks, I try to state my opinion, but not be offensive to anyone. I just speak out of my own experience and what these two companies intend to do. I'm glad to see that someone appreciates what I have to say. It seems like people are a lot more friendlier here than the other boards I post on. I think I may switch to this forum and stop posting on the others. =)


My System: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417&lt;/A>
July 19, 2001 4:24:58 PM

Good thing you trust your motherboards for thermal protection. G1

And I thought AMD put thermal diode in the A4, what a joke you lemmings live.

You get what you pay for. I was noticing the glue offset to the core. Super high quality manufacturing at work.

4 seconds, thats like some kind of record or something.

Its not the end users fault, its obviously AMD's lack of respect for customers. They have known to install thermal protection for years now and this is what you get. 5 bucks saved and a new AMD approved keychain.
July 19, 2001 4:58:55 PM

I agree with funkdog on this...It's not about AMD. It's about shims...or cheap, difficult HSFs that make people think they need a shim.. I've installed HSF's many times and never needed a shim.

If you think about the height tolerances involved in being parallel to the surface of the CPU, yet with ZERO+ hieght beyond the CPU, a shim is about the stupidist idea ever devised by man. The tolerance must be something like plus or minus .001 That kind of tolerance doesn't come cheap. It's not just impractical,
it's downright stupid.

What I'd like to know is if a shim was even close to practical, why wouldn't AMD just make their own?
Or at least make a list of CERTIFIED shims, given the ridiculous tight tolerance involved.?? Because it's a terribly stupid idea, that's why.

Whoever came up with the shim idea should be tarred and feathered.


"That's right, I'm the guy who can feel the difference between 50FPS & 100FPS in LandWarrior."<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by bud on 07/19/01 11:06 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 19, 2001 5:02:52 PM

Quote:
You get what you pay for. I was noticing the glue offset to the core. Super high quality manufacturing at work.


If, you read my post you would have seen that I have mentioned that AMD has never used high-quality manufacturing process, that is why they have always been a low-cost alternative to Intel.

I would not say they have a lack of respect for customers though, because they do have a great RMA support and are able to provide the customer with many recommendation/solution to thermal/power-consumption problems, stability and compatibility issues. I have dealt with them many a time, due to the fact that a lot of our cutomers now will settle for nothing else than AMD.

I will admit that AMD and the motherboards for AMD have been our largest source for RMA's and problems ever since we first dealt with AMD (AMD's 486). Although, they have been getting much better in more recent years. Dollar for Dollar it is the best performance you can buy, but at what cost for stability/compatibility and cooling? AMD is making an attempt to become a better quality product, the Athlon 4 is going to require 30% less power and therefore put out 30% less heat. Over the years the manufacturing process has been getting better, while at the same time providing the same good price for performance.

Like I mentioned earlier, we will see what will happen when the new products come out.


My System: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417&lt;/A>
July 19, 2001 5:04:46 PM

Agreed, AMD never as far as I know recommend using shims on their processors.
July 19, 2001 5:16:58 PM

what is your policy on dealing with AMD returns, doa and blatant overclocked cpus(visibly altered brigdes)?

"AMD/VIA...you <i>still</i> are the weakest link, good bye!"
July 19, 2001 5:18:30 PM

I agree that shims are not necessary and in the article it was an error in installation that cost him to lose the cpu, but we are neglecting one other point that is in four seconds the cpu was fried.

This leads to a lousy manufacturing proccess once again. AMD says that the Athlon can last up to 90d C before anything goes wrong, but does not recommend extensive use of their processors above 70d C (Phone AMD or Read their release notes). The amount of power required to heat up to a ridiculously high-temperature to fry a cpu in four or even ten seconds is a lot more than even a 600 Watt Power Supply could put out (if your gonna argue with me about that, then you need to go take basic physics again). Therefore, this leads to one other possibility, that the cpu was not manufactured properly, or used a component that does not resist even moderate temperatures (we can preety much rule that out, because all of the CPU's would have fried then). Now, we have isolated that the CPU was not manufactured properly.


My System: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417&lt;/A>
July 19, 2001 5:32:48 PM

btw... there is no speed of gravity, gravity is a force that causes objects to accelerate. We don't understand exactly why it happens, but we can calculate how much. The Force of gravity on Earth is 9.8 N/Kg and causes objects in freefall to accelerate by 9.8 m/s^2. The formula for calculating the force between two large independant bodies: Fg = GMm/r^2
F is in Newtons
G is the Gravitational Constant of 6.67x10^-11 Nm^2/Kg^2
M is the Mass of the Large body in Kg
m is the Mass of the Small body in Kg
r is the distance between the centres of the two bodies

If you deal with more than two bodies it gets to complex to explain without getting into much more difficult calculations.

Anyway, I hope I helped you out with the question in your signature.


My System: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417&lt;/A>
July 19, 2001 5:35:22 PM

Really I don't follow your logic nor your conclusion about lousy manufacturing process. If you don't cool your Pentium 3 it will also fail. Also consider that the 1.4ghz T-Bird is running twice as fast. Now Intel seems to be a little bit smarter by offering some form of built in protection, hence P4 would fail in about the same amount of time if it had no protection. The heat output of the P4 1.8ghz is really about the same as a 1.4ghz T-Bird if I remember right. Also calculating heat up rates etc. is more in line with heat transfer using like this equation <b>Q = UA(T core - T HS)</b>, <b>Q</b> = heat transfer rate, <b>U</b> heat transfer coefficient, <b>A</b> surface area, <b>T</b> temperture.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
July 19, 2001 5:55:53 PM

wow that guy killed his cpu with a shim is almost a bigger fag than you.
nml
July 19, 2001 6:49:12 PM

What he should have said is "I screwed up...I bought AMD". That was his first mistake. The bad heatsink attatchment was only an extra mistake.

--Just for the record, i ran my P866 for a year without a heatsink. Finally had to add one because i bought a Geforce2 (the only disadvantage to having the chip close to the AGP slot on the mobo is that the heat from one device affects the other).

Althons and Pentiums are just melted rock. Who’s rock is better? Who cares, let’s play some games
July 19, 2001 6:55:05 PM

One of my computers has the 440BX chipset. I DEFINITELY aggree with you that this seems like the best chipset ever made...I've never had to reformat the drive on that machine in 3 years now.

My Athlon machine? I've had to do like 3 formats in 2 years! :mad: 

My brothers Athlon? It's getting repaired by a technician a second time in about a year.

My mother-in-laws Intel 440BX w/ 400Mhz Celeron? Never had to start over in 3 years (same computer as my wifes)

I'd have to agree. I like the performance and price of AMD, but I do NOT want instability. When I'm ready to upgrade, if P4's (or 5's by then) support DDR-Sdram, then I'm going with Intel. I'll probably getted flamed for that, but I'm tired of messing with unstable systems. I'll pay the 50% extra next time for stability.

And is it just me or is this site predominantly posted w/ AMD-based systems? I don't see near as many Intel issues. Is this just related that most of us are gamers, tweakers, etc. and choose AMD? Or are there actually more posts w/ AMD problems because AMD's are more painful?



Catheter and Caffeine IV are in place. Let's PLAY.
July 19, 2001 6:56:03 PM

Quote:
equation Q = UA(T core - T HS), Q = heat transfer rate, U heat transfer coefficient, A surface area, T temperture.

There is a flaw in your formula, if you remember or read the article the heatsink was never touching the core and therefore there was no heat transfer to the heatsink by means of heat conduction only through covection which is incredibly slow (although the gap between the heatsink and the core is incredibly small it was there, because in the article he said that the shims must have moved under the pads). Therefore, heat dispation nver existed and it was a matter of how long it takes to heat up the actual core.

AMD states that the maximum power the 1.4Ghz CPU can draw is 72W and (I have a correction to make) the operational limit is 95d C, even higher than I mentioned earlier.

P = E/Delta T
72W = E/4s
E = 288J

Specific Heat
c = E/m*P
95d C = 288/m*72
368 K = 288/m*72
m = 0.01Kg

The mass of the Athlon would have to be less than 10g in order for it to just reach that temperature in 4 seconds, not only that 72 Watts is the maximum power that the Athlon draws. On boot up it draws only around 60 Watts. Therfore, decreasing the maximum mass yet more. And lets assume that the Heatsink was mounted then yes there would have been a heat transfer through conduction and would have made the heat in the die just that much less.


My System: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417&lt;/A>
July 19, 2001 6:59:14 PM

moo

you do not strengthen the weak by weakening the strong
July 19, 2001 7:06:10 PM

I have to agree with your statements, but you must remember that AMD is attempting to change that image while maintaining a low cost. This is why it will be exciting times to see how the Athlon 4 does.

There is one problem, AMD does not want to mass produce it's own chipsets and they rely on others (they were forced to for the Athlon-C, because no one wanted the other chipsets and had to push out the AMD760 Northbridge to ensure the success of their main product).

If AMD wants to ensure it's success in becoming reliable for stability and compatibility, while keeping it's amazing performance and low-cost manufacturing processes they have to mass produce they're own chipsets, just like Intel.

Notice that the best chipsets for all of intels processors have always been made by Intel. Why does AMD not see this? I hope they will have learned they're lesson with the Athlon-C for the Athlon 4.


My System: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417&lt;/A>
July 19, 2001 7:07:49 PM

I've built systems from both also. It comes down to what your priorities are, stability or performance? I hate all this flaming stuff. I mean I'm interested in posts like yours because it is INFORMATIVE. I as a consumer want to be educated about what I buy and that's just one reason why I read these posts.

Just blatantly saying "AMD or Intel sucks" doesn't help me at all. It just pizzes people off. People shouldn't even respond to AMDMeltdown...just gives him what he wants.

And if you can't talk about your hardware that you personally bought without being offended, then ya' need to grow up. Some of these people just can't admit that perhaps they made a poor purchasing decision. IT HAPPENS. My K7M motherboard was a peace of S**T. And I'm starting to wonder about AMD's also...perhaps I made a bad decision. IT HAPPENS.

Catheter and Caffeine IV are in place. Let's PLAY.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Flyboy on 07/19/01 03:11 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 19, 2001 7:17:41 PM

I agree with you totally, people seem to abuse these forums and squable over which processor is better. They fight and get bitter with each other.

I mean the choice is really up to the user who wants it to be honest, they are both great companies. They have both done incredibly well and are trying eagerly to elude the other. It is great competition and gives us better products at better prices, plus the two companies have to do whatever it takes on the customer service end to please the buyer.

This is a war between companies. It is up to us, which company will prosper more than the other. In my opinion, Intel's strategy is massive marketing to the masses and AMD's is the allure of speed at low cost.


My System: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417&lt;/A>
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
July 19, 2001 7:18:06 PM

whatever man..

hey u wanna f*uck?

--call it what you wish, with this machine I can make mercury flow in 3 directions at once--
July 19, 2001 7:29:35 PM

Quote:
hey u wanna f*uck?

This is exactly the innapropriate talk that I think you were referring to Flyboy. This just escalates situations, and how is it informative to us "consumers"?

It down right does not belong here. The Forums are meant to discuss computer hardware and help people out in a civilized manner. I think that people should be warned and then banned about these type of things.


My System: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417&lt;/A>
July 19, 2001 7:54:50 PM

Do you think most people that post like that are teenagers or what? I mean, if you told me that my system is flawed because of [INSERT FACTS AND/OR EXPERIENCE HERE] then I would be very greatful for your input. If it's constructive criticism aimed at helping me, then I have nothing to say but thanks. At the very least, I'd consider your opinions even if I don't KNOW they are factual. Perhaps I'd have to do some more research first.

Nevertheless, I'm interested in what you techies have to say because I'm fully aware that I don't know EVERYTHING...(not even a fraction of EVERYTHING actually).

Anyway, thanks. And fill free to debate an issue with me anytime. At least I know a few people here that can share facts and opinions without resorting to childish remarks.

Take care...see ya' around OmegaX. :smile:

Catheter and Caffeine IV are in place. Let's PLAY.
July 19, 2001 8:15:08 PM

Can't we all just get along. Opposites attract as you will notice. People with P4s or Athlons are satisfied if they get what they want out of them. For most of us the higher performing T-Birds are just overkill as well as for the P4s. Plus you can't always go by past record, what counts is how it performs now in speed and stability. I don't look at Intel BX boards to decide which chipset board I buy now. Looking at what you are actually buying should be the overriding situation. The past may reflect the future but rarely the same.

<b><font color=blue>1.5</b></font color=blue> T-Bird
<b><font color=red>2.1</b></font color=red> P4 Speed<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 07/19/01 04:21 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 19, 2001 8:19:10 PM

"And I thought AMD put thermal diode in the A4, what a joke you lemmings live."

It wasn't an A4 that got burned up ... but you knew that didn't you?
July 19, 2001 8:56:44 PM

Quote:
I don't look at Intel BX boards to decide which chipset board I buy now.

I never once said that I judge what to buy now based off of previous products, I mearly stated that there has not been a better chipset since the 440BX and that is why I have not upgraded and am looking forward to such things as the:

- AMD Athlon 4
- Intel Pentium III Tualatin
- Intel Pentium 4 Northwood
- DDR Support for the P4
- PC-2400 DDR RAM @ CAS2 becoming Industry Standard
- nVidia nForce
- ATI R200 (this might make me change my opinions about ATI making a quality gamers card)

This is an exciting time where most companies are equivalent to each other and no one in the hardware world really monopolizes anymore. It is healthy competition that is good for us "consumers".



My System: <A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?rigid=9417&lt;/A>
July 19, 2001 9:46:37 PM

Agreed, I didn't mean that was what you did just what I try to do.

<b><font color=blue>1.5</b></font color=blue> T-Bird
<b><font color=red>2.1</b></font color=red> P4 Speed
!