Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Difficulties with the Wizard of Yendor + extra questions.

Last response: in Video Games
Share
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 11:20:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Greetings to all.
My first post to rgrn. :) 

I have been playing this game for about 2 months now,
and recently got my character, a lawful Valkyrie
for the second time to Gehennom. I encountered
a problem I had some difficulties to deal with.

I will give you some background information.

Armed with a +5 mjollnir and +2 crysknife, i battled
my way downstairs, retrieved the invocation items
and found the vibrating square (the lich/seamonster/"h"
classes got genocided). My AC was -17 (REAL low for
my standards) wearing silver DSM, boots of speed, gauntlets
of power, and a robe of protection. My helmet was a orcish
helmet with +3 enchantment. I had very few scrolls left
due to a polymorph incident (more about it below).
water, My HP was around 300, xplvl 28.
My ring/amulet was slow digestion+polymorph control rings
+ Amulet of LS

After getting the Amulet (first time.. go, me !) i started to
head up. The first (minor problem) I encountered was that
upon going up a stairway, I sometimes got randomly warped back
or got teleported away. I assume this is normal behavior of
the Amulet ?

Now the real problem. The wizard kept reappearing plenty of
times, even wearing an Amulet of Life-saving at times.
I used my (only) wand of death on him liberally, but when I
ran out of charges, it became quickly a mess. When arriving
at the Swamp of Juiblex, he appeared next to me, did some sort
of crumbling attack which destroyed my cloak and summoned
assorted minions. The next couple of rounds, he
touch-of-death'd me, resulting in me being life-saved
by my Amulet of Life-saving.

However, In the subsequent rounds (of me trying to melee
the Wizard which had cloned himself in hopes to get away),
he managed to crumble *ALL* my armor, making me an easy
target for a dragon that suddenly appeared + the attacks
of the two Wizards. I died quicky.
He also stole my orb of fate.... :( 

After typing this up, I can come up with certain methods I might
have tried (I had spare wands of sleep, a wand of polymorph,
ring of conflict).

Now, my main questions regarding this annoyance. Bearing in
mind I have not that much knowledge about the
game/intrinsics/protection (yet).

What can I do in general to prevent these crumble and
touch of death attacks ?

What about when the Wizard decides to clone himself and
play a game of tag ?

Would another combo but twoweapon'ing +5 Mjollnir and a +2
crysknife be more potent against the Wizard ? Perhaps switching
to a shield instead for the additional points of -AC ?
(scrolls/wishes/markers werent that plenty)

I dont mind spoilers...

Now for my bonus question.
I figured out the "polypile" method, and put all my
spare wands and scrolls on a nice heap, and zapped them
with a wand. It resulted in a paper golem, and gone
were my spare scrolls and dreams of a better stack...
The wands were fine, but their amount lessened each zap.

Any way to polypile a huge stack of scrolls with my usually
limited amount of polymorph wands (and wishes for more)
without golems being summoned ? I lost dozens and dozens of
scrolls that way, reducing my chance to have better enchantment
bonuses on my weapons.

Thank you for your patience if you got
this far.
Best regards,
Angelo
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 7:38:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> "angelomcm" <angelo88@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > However, In the subsequent rounds (of me trying to melee
> > the Wizard which had cloned himself in hopes to get away),
> > he managed to crumble *ALL* my armor, making me an easy
> > target for a dragon that suddenly appeared + the attacks
> > of the two Wizards. I died quicky.
> > He also stole my orb of fate.... :( 
> >
> > After typing this up, I can come up with certain methods I might
> > have tried (I had spare wands of sleep, a wand of polymorph,
> > ring of conflict).
>
> Conflict would have been a good idea.
I typically wear conflict just about all the way from stomping the
Wizard to ascending.

By the way, I usually play my valks with ascension AC -10 or so, but
I consider that a minor challenge that I do for fun. On your first
ascension I wouldn't mess with any of that. My first was a Wizard that
knew Finger of Death and Magic Missile and Charm Monster and, to be
honest, every spell I'd ever heard of (and could therefore think of
writing a spellbook of), plus having both HP and MP 500 or so, and AC
about -40.
>
> > What can I do in general to prevent these crumble and
> > touch of death attacks ?
>
> Get Magic resistance. There are some artifacts, a cloak and
> some dragon scales providing this.
My preferred Valk armor is as follows:
Hawaiian T-Shirt (getting cheated by shopkeepers is funny)
Gray Dragon Scale Mail (gives magic resistance, so you won't get
touch-of-death'd, etc.
Cloak of Displacement (so monsters can't figure out where you are to
hit you; awesome if you just want to run past without fighting... can
anyone say 'ascension run'? Also, good magic cancellation here.)
Shield of Reflection (so you still have reflection even without the
SDSM)
Speed Boots (as a matter of preference, if you want you can keep a pair
of jumping boots in your BoH for use on the Astral Plane)
Helm of Telepathy (so you can see everything nearby without having to
be blind)
Gauntlets of Power (so you can throw Mjollnir)

Intrinsics: always have speed, stealth, invisibility, and see invisible
along with the normal resistances; speed is always good and the last
three plus that cloak of displacement confuse monsters to death.

Don't twoweapon or you couldn't use the shield of reflection (I guess
if you REALLY wanted to you could use an amulet of reflection, but you
can't enchant them and then you can't use an AoLS. I recommend that
you just use Mjollnir, enchanted all the way, especially because it's a
ranged weapon too; if you're scared of that vamp lord you can always
just back away and peg him from a distance. However, it'll be highly
uncool if Mjollnir decides not to return on the Astral Plane; therefore
you should have a second artifact weapon (I always go for Fire / Frost
Brand, Frost is first choice b/c all the fire-resistant freaks in hell)
enchanted somewhat decently, so that you can battle your way to
wherever Mjollnir landed.


>
> > What about when the Wizard decides to clone himself and
> > play a game of tag ?
>
> Well, then you have a problem ;-).
>

In my experience, if the Wizard decides to play a game of tag, I
basically just #quit.

> > Would another combo but twoweapon'ing +5 Mjollnir and a +2
> > crysknife be more potent against the Wizard ?
>
> The most potent melee weapon against the wizard is not
> a weapon by its origin. Vg'f n pbpxngevpr pbecfr.
>

I've never understood that code. How does it work? I've seen it
often, used to keep from spoiling things too badly, but I never can
tell what it means, even though it'd be pretty tough to spoil this game
any more for me. For instance, in this case I know exactly what you
typed there but I still don't know how you encoded it.

Anyway, I also have a question about that. How do I keep my pbpxngevpr
pbecfr around? Mine have a nasty tendency to disappear after a while.
Maybe carry an ice box around in my back pocket? 8) I've heard
something about blessing them, but it doesn't seem to affect mine.
Maybe you have to wield it too if you want to keep it?

> > I figured out the "polypile" method, and put all my
> > spare wands and scrolls on a nice heap, and zapped them
> > with a wand. It resulted in a paper golem, and gone
> > were my spare scrolls and dreams of a better stack...
> > The wands were fine, but their amount lessened each zap.
> >
> > Any way to polypile a huge stack of scrolls with my usually
> > limited amount of polymorph wands (and wishes for more)
> > without golems being summoned ?
>
> You can substantially reduce the probability for a golem
> by distributing the stack (remember that polywands have a
> range larger than one square).
>

Yeah. Basically, put a few scrolls on each of 5 squares or so in a
row and then stand at one end and zap them all.
Alternatively, you could genocide golems.
Also, I usually get more than just scrolls and wands for polypiling;
armor is good (to get the last couple pieces of whatever your preferred
ascension kit is); amulets too (if you don't need them, might as well
try to change them into LS); potions can't hurt either.

You should have more than just 1 wand of death when you go for a Run.
Plan for four or five; this way you can use a couple on the wizard on
the way out, and have a couple left for the Planes. You can also
charge them (blessed is best of course) to get more kills out of
them... I think....

Good luck on your next game!

-David
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 1:47:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"angelomcm" <angelo88@gmail.com> writes:

> After getting the Amulet (first time.. go, me !) i started to
> head up. The first (minor problem) I encountered was that
> upon going up a stairway, I sometimes got randomly warped back
> or got teleported away. I assume this is normal behavior of
> the Amulet ?

Yes.

> However, In the subsequent rounds (of me trying to melee
> the Wizard which had cloned himself in hopes to get away),
> he managed to crumble *ALL* my armor, making me an easy
> target for a dragon that suddenly appeared + the attacks
> of the two Wizards. I died quicky.
> He also stole my orb of fate.... :( 
>
> After typing this up, I can come up with certain methods I might
> have tried (I had spare wands of sleep, a wand of polymorph,
> ring of conflict).

Conflict would have been a good idea.

> What can I do in general to prevent these crumble and
> touch of death attacks ?

Get Magic resistance. There are some artifacts, a cloak and
some dragon scales providing this.

> What about when the Wizard decides to clone himself and
> play a game of tag ?

Well, then you have a problem ;-).

> Would another combo but twoweapon'ing +5 Mjollnir and a +2
> crysknife be more potent against the Wizard ?

The most potent melee weapon against the wizard is not
a weapon by its origin. Vg'f n pbpxngevpr pbecfr.

> I figured out the "polypile" method, and put all my
> spare wands and scrolls on a nice heap, and zapped them
> with a wand. It resulted in a paper golem, and gone
> were my spare scrolls and dreams of a better stack...
> The wands were fine, but their amount lessened each zap.
>
> Any way to polypile a huge stack of scrolls with my usually
> limited amount of polymorph wands (and wishes for more)
> without golems being summoned ?

You can substantially reduce the probability for a golem
by distributing the stack (remember that polywands have a
range larger than one square).

Best,
Jakob
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 5:05:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

blipster8 wrote:

> I've never understood that code. How does it work? I've seen it
> often, used to keep from spoiling things too badly, but I never can
> tell what it means, even though it'd be pretty tough to spoil this game
> any more for me. For instance, in this case I know exactly what you
> typed there but I still don't know how you encoded it.

It's called rot-13, meaning that you rotate every letter 13 places through
the alphabet: abcde becomes nopqr and vice versa. Some (most?) newsreaders
have a rot-13 function to decode and encode text, but if yours doesn't
you can go to http://www.rot13.com and use the online form there.

> Anyway, I also have a question about that. How do I keep my pbpxngevpr
> pbecfr around?

You don't. It's a finite resource; being a corpse, it rots away after a
while.

> Maybe you have to wield it too if you want to keep it?

Wielding it makes no difference: "Your wielded cockatrice corpse rots
away."

Raisse, petrified by a cockatrice

--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 5:24:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"blipster8" <dcclyde@gmail.com> writes:

> > The most potent melee weapon against the wizard is not
> > a weapon by its origin. Vg'f n pbpxngevpr pbecfr.
> >
>
> I've never understood that code. How does it work?

It's called ROT 13. It moves every letter 13 steps
forward in the alphabet (restarting at 'a', of course),
case--insensitive (i.e., 'a' ->'n', 'A'->'N'). It's
a self-inverse chiffre (i.e., 'a' -> 'n' -> 'a' when
applying ROT 13 twice), and is widely used in usenet
to denote 'spoily' or other messages you'd rather not
spell explicitly but want the others to understand
anyway. Each good newsreader should have a feature of
ROT 13 text; else, you need to go the hard way and
save the text, apply a ROT 13 program on it (google
should find some, I reckon), and read it then.

> Anyway, I also have a question about that. How do I keep my pbpxngevpr
> pbecfr around?

Err.. you made copy and past here, right?

> Mine have a nasty tendency to disappear after a while.

That's why you need them fresh ;-).
Some possibilities include:

- Taming one, and killing it just when you need it
(alignment malus, but not really dramatic)

- reverse--genocide them

- use create monster or let a monster creat monsters until
you get one

Anyway, the advice on the ascension run is to use breakneck
speed. Use controlled teleport (not by spell, drains energy)
whenever you can, quaff cursed potions of gain level whenever
possible, and use the ingenious sanctum shortcut (create the
stairs, then use controlled level teleport until you end up
near the sanctum itself, grab the amulet, quaff a cursed potion
of gain level) to save time. Helps to let your err, weapon
stay fresh.

If you really want to prepare, you might try to make up some
ice-boxed corpses available on some levels before awaking
Rodney. If things get really ugly, you can drop the amulet,
level--teleport and work your way back to Rodney (assuming
he did not flee).

[Hey, that could be a new Rodney tactic; I have to try this
sometimes. Would he pick up the amulet if I drop and level-port?]

Best,
Jakob
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 6:58:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1126003082.785941.212170@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
blipster8 <dcclyde@gmail.com> says...
> Jakob Creutzig wrote:
> > "angelomcm" <angelo88@gmail.com> writes:
....
> > > Would another combo but twoweapon'ing +5 Mjollnir and a +2
> > > crysknife be more potent against the Wizard ?
> >
> > The most potent melee weapon against the wizard is not
> > a weapon by its origin. Vg'f n pbpxngevpr pbecfr.
> >
....
> Anyway, I also have a question about that. How do I keep my pbpxngevpr
> pbecfr around? Mine have a nasty tendency to disappear after a while.
> Maybe carry an ice box around in my back pocket? 8) I've heard
> something about blessing them, but it doesn't seem to affect mine.
> Maybe you have to wield it too if you want to keep it?

Cockatrice eggs are another possibility, albiet one shot per egg. Safer
too.

I'm also thinking +7 Mojo & +7 crysknife would be better than +5 Mojo & +2
crysknife :) 

<some stuff about polypiling>

One polypiling trick is to enchant, fooproof & bless a large pile of
arrows/darts/bolts to +7, then enchant subpiles until you get +8 (or even
+9) and then drop them onto the polypiles. #name them to prevent them from
stacking. You then get assorted +8/+9 weapons - silver sabre/dagger/spear,
katana etc etc. You won't get artifacts or non randomly generated weapons
(e.g. crysknifes).

If you have magic markers you may be better off blanking some of the less
useful scrolls and writing what you need - enchant weapon and armour say.
Polypile for markers, but they then arrive (1:x) so they cannot be
recharged.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 9:17:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

blipster8 <dcclyde@gmail.com> wrote:
> Cloak of Displacement (so monsters can't figure out where you are to
> hit you; awesome if you just want to run past without fighting... can
> anyone say 'ascension run'? Also, good magic cancellation here.)

I wouldn't call it good, ok, but not good.

> Shield of Reflection (so you still have reflection even without the
> SDSM)

But sacrificing a lot of damage.

> Helm of Telepathy (so you can see everything nearby without having to
> be blind)

Interesting choice, I'd go for something else given the Orb of Fate already
confers warning, which is better in some ways.

> Don't twoweapon or you couldn't use the shield of reflection (I guess
> if you REALLY wanted to you could use an amulet of reflection, but you
> can't enchant them and then you can't use an AoLS. I recommend that

Really, a valk in ascension gear should never come close to dying, a fully
enchanted shield will save you 3 points of damage on average, 1.5 with the
orb. Tiny compared to the damage you give up.

Mjollnir is a bad weapon on the Astral Plane anyway.

> In my experience, if the Wizard decides to play a game of tag, I
> basically just #quit.

Just like that?! If you can kill the wizard once the other one isn't going
to be that much of a big deal.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 9:48:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 6 Sep 2005 03:38:02 -0700, "blipster8" <dcclyde@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Jakob Creutzig wrote:
>> "angelomcm" <angelo88@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > However, In the subsequent rounds (of me trying to melee
>> > the Wizard which had cloned himself in hopes to get away),
>> > he managed to crumble *ALL* my armor, making me an easy
>> > target for a dragon that suddenly appeared + the attacks
>> > of the two Wizards. I died quicky.
>> > He also stole my orb of fate.... :( 
>> >
>> > After typing this up, I can come up with certain methods I might
>> > have tried (I had spare wands of sleep, a wand of polymorph,
>> > ring of conflict).
>>
>> Conflict would have been a good idea.
> I typically wear conflict just about all the way from stomping the
>Wizard to ascending.

Add being invisible/displaced and I'm right with you.

>
> By the way, I usually play my valks with ascension AC -10 or so, but
>I consider that a minor challenge that I do for fun.

Hooray for the Orb of Fate! Still, my hat's off to you. (I
try to get higher than that before leaving Mine Town.)

I hope you're running instead of fighting?

> On your first ascension I wouldn't mess with any of that.

Sage advice. (To bad it wasn't in thyme.)

>My first was a Wizard that
>knew Finger of Death and Magic Missile and Charm Monster and, to be
>honest, every spell I'd ever heard of (and could therefore think of
>writing a spellbook of), plus having both HP and MP 500 or so, and AC
>about -40.

And the Eye of Aethiopica and Magicbane? (With CoMR that's
triple magic resistance.) AC of -40 should have been good
enough, since you were a killing machine with the spells.

>>
>> > What can I do in general to prevent these crumble and
>> > touch of death attacks ?
>>
>> Get Magic resistance. There are some artifacts, a cloak and
>> some dragon scales providing this.

>My preferred Valk armor is as follows:
>Hawaiian T-Shirt (getting cheated by shopkeepers is funny)

Only if seen, i.e. no armor/cloak. Shopkeepers usually
cheat Valkyries because the Valks are ugly.

>Gray Dragon Scale Mail (gives magic resistance, so you won't get
>touch-of-death'd, etc.
>Cloak of Displacement (so monsters can't figure out where you are to
>hit you; awesome if you just want to run past without fighting... can
>anyone say 'ascension run'? Also, good magic cancellation here.)

Thought the CoDisplacement was only MC##. Not that it really
matters if you're not being hit.

>Shield of Reflection (so you still have reflection even without the
>SDSM)
>Speed Boots (as a matter of preference, if you want you can keep a pair
>of jumping boots in your BoH for use on the Astral Plane)
>Helm of Telepathy (so you can see everything nearby without having to
>be blind)
>Gauntlets of Power (so you can throw Mjollnir)
>
>Intrinsics: always have speed, stealth, invisibility, and see invisible
>along with the normal resistances; speed is always good and the last
>three plus that cloak of displacement confuse monsters to death.

Fire resistance (for Gehennom) and that looks like an excellent
setup. Invisible with cloak of displacement is not desireable.

>
>Don't twoweapon or you couldn't use the shield of reflection (I guess
>if you REALLY wanted to you could use an amulet of reflection, but you
>can't enchant them and then you can't use an AoLS.

That's why some prefer CoMR and SDSM. Cloak of displacement
with Gray DSM should provide more entertainment.

>I recommend that
>you just use Mjollnir, enchanted all the way, especially because it's a
>ranged weapon too; if you're scared of that vamp lord you can always
>just back away and peg him from a distance.

Learning how to hit monsters without being hit back may be the
key to the game. Here the cloak of displacement helps a lot.

>However, it'll be highly
>uncool if Mjollnir decides not to return on the Astral Plane; therefore
>you should have a second artifact weapon (I always go for Fire / Frost
>Brand, Frost is first choice b/c all the fire-resistant freaks in hell)
>enchanted somewhat decently, so that you can battle your way to
>wherever Mjollnir landed.
>
>
>>
>> > What about when the Wizard decides to clone himself and
>> > play a game of tag ?
>>
>> Well, then you have a problem ;-).
>>
>

Non-spellcasters, and many spellcasters, save every wand of
death they find in the dungeon for just such an occasion.
Spellcasters that can give Rodney the finger (of death).



>In my experience, if the Wizard decides to play a game of tag, I
>basically just #quit.

Whoa, that seems premature. Looks like you need to #twoweapon
with highly enchanted weapons. Yes, that means wearing an amulet
of reflection instead of an amulet of life saving.

As others have pointed out, an amulet of life saving saves your
life just once, leaving whatever killed you still around. An
amulet of reflection can save your life many times.

Others speak of Valks learning daggers to Expert(?). Throwing
up to three +7 elven daggers per turn (even at melee distance)
does a lot of damage with Str 25. And one blessed scroll of
enchant weapon enchants a whole stack of daggers.

And, of course, wands of death.

>
>> > Would another combo but twoweapon'ing +5 Mjollnir and a +2
>> > crysknife be more potent against the Wizard ?

What weapon/twoweapon skills had you enhanced and to where?

(Some recommend a silver saber as the best general purpose
secondary weapon. With enough Str and enchantment it should
be effective enough against the WoY.)

What were your character stats?


Does the Wiz teleport away to heal? (The wand/finger of death
make that difficult to determine. :-)

>>
>> The most potent melee weapon against the wizard is not
>> a weapon by its origin. Vg'f n pbpxngevpr pbecfr.
>>

Good advice if one shows up. It's still good to be an awesome
killing machine by #twoweaponing. The original poster could have
been doing 5/7 more points of damage per turn by properly
enchanting their melee weapons.

The OP didn't mention how much #twoweapon, hammer, and
crysknife skills had been advanced, nor the character's Str.
All of those will affect damage done.

Given Valkyries spellcasting abilities, their best option
is to be able to deal huge amounts of damage with weapons.

(Awesome killing power will get you out of many tricky
situations. Just ask a wizard able to cast Finger of Death
at 0% failure and the Pw to keep doing it. :-)

More goes into damage inflicted than just base weapon and
weapon enchantment. (The weapons spoiler may have most of it.)

>
>I've never understood that code. How does it work? I've seen it
>often, used to keep from spoiling things too badly, but I never can
>tell what it means, even though it'd be pretty tough to spoil this game
>any more for me. For instance, in this case I know exactly what you
>typed there but I still don't know how you encoded it.
>
>Anyway, I also have a question about that. How do I keep my pbpxngevpr
>pbecfr around? Mine have a nasty tendency to disappear after a while.
>Maybe carry an ice box around in my back pocket? 8) I've heard
>something about blessing them, but it doesn't seem to affect mine.
>Maybe you have to wield it too if you want to keep it?

They do go away, otherwise they'd be too powerful, with proper
care.

Noticing when one turns up can be very helpful. Saving a wish
for one in extremity is a good idea.

>
>> > I figured out the "polypile" method, and put all my
>> > spare wands and scrolls on a nice heap, and zapped them
>> > with a wand. It resulted in a paper golem, and gone
>> > were my spare scrolls and dreams of a better stack...
>> > The wands were fine, but their amount lessened each zap.
>> >
>> > Any way to polypile a huge stack of scrolls with my usually
>> > limited amount of polymorph wands (and wishes for more)
>> > without golems being summoned ?
>>
>> You can substantially reduce the probability for a golem
>> by distributing the stack (remember that polywands have a
>> range larger than one square).

At the very least, don't have anything cursed in any stack.
Blessing everything in the stack is a good idea, but not always
feasible. Bless your largest stack of scrolls/potions, then
only put up to three on a given square (with other non-cursed
items).


>>
>
> Yeah. Basically, put a few scrolls on each of 5 squares or so in a
>row and then stand at one end and zap them all.
> Alternatively, you could genocide golems.
> Also, I usually get more than just scrolls and wands for polypiling;
>armor is good (to get the last couple pieces of whatever your preferred
>ascension kit is); amulets too (if you don't need them, might as well
>try to change them into LS); potions can't hurt either.

There have been posts on polypiling "correctly", and the
inconvenience thereof. If you can't cast the spell of polymorph,
polypiling with a wand is going to be less efficient.

>
>You should have more than just 1 wand of death when you go for a Run.
>Plan for four or five; this way you can use a couple on the wizard on
>the way out, and have a couple left for the Planes. You can also
>charge them (blessed is best of course) to get more kills out of
>them... I think....

Definitely true. Hence the PYEC.

>
>Good luck on your next game!
>

Ditto.

--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 10:46:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 6 Sep 20057:48 pm "Jove" wrote:

>> > Would another combo but twoweapon'ing +5 Mjollnir and a +2
>> > crysknife be more potent against the Wizard ?
>> What weapon/twoweapon skills had you enhanced and to where?

(maybe spoilers...)

I am unsure how high I can get a crysknife, but most of my
wielded weapons were at a maximum. I understand now that
the Wizard is a bite too much I can afford right now (only
having played the game 2 months).

I thank you all for giving me the polypile hint for the
scrolls and the hint for the Wizard (ROT13 = Vg'f n pbpxngevpr
pbecfr.) (Jakob Creutzig)

Thanks Andrew Kerr for mentioning I can have an extra T-shirt.
I never figured....

Thank you blipster8 for reminding the genocide option for Golems
while polypiling... I never fellt that dumb getting reminded about
that, but I honestly did not have any marker available.

I tended to take it easy and get as many genocides as possible,
including cockatrice variety , vampires, "h", seamonsters and
the Lich variety.

I guess I will have to adapt my late-game technique, and not
be that hasty. Instead, take it easier and take my time with
everything....

A few quick questions:

How much does the highest tier of MR helps me against
the touch of death and the crumble attacks ?

Is there any chance to polymorph my wand stack and hope any
turns into a wand of wishing ?

Bonus question: Have you rgrn residents any preference for the
ArAc (ascending ring/amulet combo) (sorry for making this up)
My opinion might not count, but my fave was Amulet of Lifesaving +
slow digestion + polymorph control rings. Mostly due to not having
enough intrinsics.

Best regards
Angelo
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 7:56:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 6 Sep 2005 18:46:47 -0700, "angelomcm" <angelo88@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 6 Sep 20057:48 pm "Jove" wrote:
>
>>> > Would another combo but twoweapon'ing +5 Mjollnir and a +2
>>> > crysknife be more potent against the Wizard ?
>>> What weapon/twoweapon skills had you enhanced and to where?
>
>(maybe spoilers...)
>
>I am unsure how high I can get a crysknife, but most of my
>wielded weapons were at a maximum. I understand now that
>the Wizard is a bite too much I can afford right now (only
>having played the game 2 months).

Looks like you're doing pretty well for only playing for
two months.

Skill slot allocations for Valks (i.e. the #enhance screen) is
a whole subject by itself. Luckily for you there recently was
a very spoily (and brain-busting) discussion of it here:

<http://groups.google.gg/group/rec.games.roguelike.netha...;


>
>I thank you all for giving me the polypile hint for the
>scrolls and the hint for the Wizard (ROT13 = Vg'f n pbpxngevpr
>pbecfr.) (Jakob Creutzig)
>
>Thanks Andrew Kerr for mentioning I can have an extra T-shirt.
>I never figured....

I checked Andrew's post in this thread and don't remember
anything about a T-shirt. (BTW, fun thing to do: read your
T-shirt)

>
>Thank you blipster8 for reminding the genocide option for Golems
>while polypiling... I never fellt that dumb getting reminded about
>that, but I honestly did not have any marker available.
>

I don't know that I'd ever heard it either. There's always
something new to learn in Nethack.

>I tended to take it easy and get as many genocides as possible,
>including cockatrice variety , vampires, "h", seamonsters and
>the Lich variety.
>
Cockatrices are two-edged swords. (They can be as deadly to
and enemy as they are to you.) Learn how to deal with them.
(Or just keep genociding them. Other people do.)

>I guess I will have to adapt my late-game technique, and not
>be that hasty. Instead, take it easier and take my time with
>everything....

Play slow but move fast. On the ascension run (after you get
the amulet) the nature of the game changes. You've got someplace
to go and the quicker you get there the better. (But you don'
have to type fast. ;-)

- Don't fight unless you absolutely *have* to to keep
traveling.

- What is in your rear view mirror does not count.


There are a lot of tips for traveling fast on the Ascension
run, starting with being very fast yourself, up to using teleport
scrolls and jumping boots.

There's a thread on Google called "Endgame hints?":

<http://groups.google.gg/group/rec.games.roguelike.netha...;

It's spoileriffic and not completely focused but should give
you some ideas.

>
>A few quick questions:
>
>How much does the highest tier of MR helps me against
>the touch of death and the crumble attacks ?

Complete protection against touch of death and crumble attacks.
And MR just has one level, either you have it or you don't.
Multiple sources of MR don't give more protection per se, but if
the WoY steals one or two, it's nice to have backup.

Magic *Cancellation* comes in different levels of protection.
Level three, usually shown as MC###, is the best, with something
like 95% protection against level drain attacks, etc.


The difference between MR and MC has been confusing players for
a long time, and will continue to confuse players for a long time
to come.

>
>Is there any chance to polymorph my wand stack and hope any
>turns into a wand of wishing ?

I think there's a very very small chance of getting a
guaranteed useless wand of wishing through polymorphing wands.

Don't get over focussed on wishes and/or equipment. Make
sure you have the basics and some equipment for special cases.


No matter what you think is essential, someone has probably
ascended without it. (Except the Amulet of Yendor :-).

The most important part of your Ascension Kit (AK) is an
ascension state of mind. My "Yet Another First Ascension Post"
pointed out that my game had had a good start, but I'd blown
others just as good. It's just that I'd decided I was going to
ascend that game.

The legendary Marvin ascended 15 out of 16 games in last year's
devnull Nethack tournament. So it's not what you have, it's what
you do with it.

>
>Bonus question: Have you rgrn residents any preference for the
>ArAc (ascending ring/amulet combo) (sorry for making this up)
>My opinion might not count, but my fave was Amulet of Lifesaving +
>slow digestion + polymorph control rings. Mostly due to not having
>enough intrinsics.

Your opinion is as good as anyone else's here. (That should
worry you. ;^) If that's what you like, it's what you like.

Now, reasons, such as the one you gave about lacking
intrinsics, can and will be discussed.

You should have enough light weight food by the ascension run
that you don't need the ring of SD. Polymorph control is of no
real use if you have Magic Resistance, because MR protects
against poly traps. (But if you relax and play better wearing
those rings, Wear Them!)

The nearest thing to a consensus on Ascension Kit rings is
conflict. Monsters fighting each other are much less likely
to bother with you.

Free Action has its fans. I like it because wearing it I
can wield a potion of paralysis, smack Death (or the wizard)
in the face with it, then carve them up at leisure. :-D
It also has other uses.

You'll want levitation in the endgame, and a ring is one
way to get it.

A couple of good rings of increase damage can also make a
difference.

Ditto for rings of protection.

Rings for missing intrinsics can almost just be put on as
needed. Not poison resistance. If you don't have PR
intrinsically wear the ring, or even the amulet.


For amulets, the big ones are reflection, magical breathing,
and life saving (aka amulet of Protection against Poor Typing.)

If you don't have reflection some other way, wear the amulet of
reflection. The idea is that an amulet of life can save your
life once (with whatever killed you still around to do it again),
while reflection can save your life over and over again. (Not
everyone agrees with that.)

Although some people have ascended without reflection. You'd
just better have every possible resistance. (And study the
resistances to be sure.)

Magical breathing can be useful during the endgame.

The amulet choice is generally decided by the dragon scale
mail choice. Gray Dragon Scale Mail gives MR, so an amulet
of reflection is worn. (The alternative is a silver shield,
which is much heavier, and prevents both spellcasting and
twoweaponing.)

Silver Dragon Scale Mail (SDSM) and a Cloak of Magic Resistance
(CoMR) give reflection and MR, so life saving becomes more of an
option.



Using what fits your playing style is what's important. I wear
water-walking boots a lot because I'm always stepping onto water.
I don't really recommend it for anyone else.

I use jumping boots a lot in certain situations because they
handle those situations well. I *do* recommend jumping boots
to others for those situations because I can give *reasons*
for using them.

I also like playing wizards, and I can give you reasons why.
Whether those reasons appeal to you is entirely up to you. If
you try wizards and don't like them, that's absolutely fine.
You don't even have to have reasons.



The difference between liking something and have reasons
to use it is an old, old concept. From the Latin:

De gustibus non est disputandem.

In English:

There is no [point in] disputing about tastes.




We can all still post about what we like. We all have the
right to our own opinions. We just don't have the right to
have it taken seriously. ;^D


--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 1:55:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

angelomcm wrote:
>
> >> > Would another combo but twoweapon'ing +5 Mjollnir and a +2
> >> > crysknife be more potent against the Wizard ?
>
> >> What weapon/twoweapon skills had you enhanced and to where?
>
> (maybe spoilers...)
>
> I am unsure how high I can get a crysknife, but most of my
> wielded weapons were at a maximum. I understand now that
> the Wizard is a bite too much I can afford right now (only
> having played the game 2 months).

Wizards can enhance the knife class to Skilled. In
the knive class are worm tooth, knife, stilleto,
scapel, crysknife. There are no knife-class
artifacts so only the crysknife justifies ever
enhancing the knife skill past its starting point.
Maybe the healer class is an exception to this
but I think a healer will do better ignoring
knife as well. Weapons that stack are best used
as missiles - knives, daggers, spears plus the
ones that break. Since Expert can throw several in
the same turn, it is only worth advancing a class
of missiles if you can get Expert in it.

> I tended to take it easy and get as many genocides as possible,
> including cockatrice variety , vampires, "h", seamonsters and
> the Lich variety.

This can become a problem in the end game. The
more that are genocided, the more the non-genocidable
monsters appear in the end game. Titans, deamons and
so on, non-genocidable monsters are the tough ones.
On the other hand genociding a few types does make the
game easier.

> How much does the highest tier of MR helps me against
> the touch of death and the crumble attacks ?

My mean MC not MR. MR gives complete immunity to
magic missiles and a few other spells. MC cancells
attacks like bites. So with MR there is only yes/no
and it is critically important to have a yes by the
time to start encountering spell casting monsters.
For MC, here's the table of how well they cancel:

None 150/150 (100%)
# 101/150 (~67%)
## 52/150 (~35%)
### 3/150 (2%)
Monster cancelled 0/150 (0%)

> Is there any chance to polymorph my wand stack and hope any
> turns into a wand of wishing ?

No. Zero chance of that. When a polymorph is
done, wands of wishing are forbidden.

> Bonus question: Have you rgrn residents any preference for the
> ArAc (ascending ring/amulet combo) (sorry for making this up)
> My opinion might not count, but my fave was Amulet of Lifesaving +
> slow digestion + polymorph control rings. Mostly due to not having
> enough intrinsics.

That "Mostly due to not having enough intrinsics" part
is key. It is very important to get intrinsics.
You should have all of the immunities at some point.
One of the biggest hurdles of foodless ascension is not
starvation but like of disintegration immunity and
other intrinsics.

With all of the intrinsics the amulets to wear are
life saving or reflection. The choice of rings is
much wider. Slow digestion, free action and conflict
are popular but you can't have 3 rings on at the
same time. Polymorph plus plymorph control seem
more popular before the planes not in them.
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 2:55:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andrew Kerr wrote:
> Doug Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> says...
>
> > Weapons that stack are best used
> > as missiles - knives, daggers, spears plus the
> > ones that break. Since Expert can throw several in
> > the same turn, it is only worth advancing a class
> > of missiles if you can get Expert in it.
>
> Where "missiles" are dagger, shuriken, darts, arrows, crossbow bolts and
> slingables. Use of launcher where appropriate required.
>
> IMHO knives should be there too.

Right. I just checked and only healers and rogues can
get to Expert in knife. Rogues can get to Expert in
dagger as well. There are artifact daggers and
cryknives are problematic. Looks like only a healer
would find it worth throwing knives not daggers at
Expert.

> Spears are rather heavy for a quiver.

There was a dicsussion of this a couple of months
ago. Even javelins are too heavy for the damage
per weight.

> > You should have all of the immunities at some point.
>
> Acid resistance is hard to get and not that useful. Wearing YDS(M) or
> alchemy smock are the only ways other than polymorphing.

Acquirable immunities, check. Getting items fooproof
is all I've ever cared about with acid once I have
enough hit points.
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 4:07:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jove wrote:
> On 6 Sep 2005 18:46:47 -0700, "angelomcm" <angelo88@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Is there any chance to polymorph my wand stack and hope any
>>turns into a wand of wishing ?
>
> I think there's a very very small chance of getting a
> guaranteed useless wand of wishing through polymorphing wands.

No there isn't. Polymorphing wands don't produce wands of wishing nor
wands of polymorph. Also magic lamps, potions and spellbooks of
polymorph are on no-no list.

If on the other hand you wish for a wand of wishing then nine out of ten
times you get useless wand of wishing. 1 in ten the wand just has no
charges.

> If you don't have reflection some other way, wear the amulet of
> reflection. The idea is that an amulet of life can save your
> life once (with whatever killed you still around to do it again),
> while reflection can save your life over and over again. (Not
> everyone agrees with that.)

Not having reflection though can be pain in the nether regions. In my
current game my rings were destroyed twice by lightning wand totting
monsters before I got the amulet of reflection. It's been on since then
except for some boulder arrangment situations which were done with no
monsters around.

Topi
--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
"How come he didn't put 'I think' at the end of it?" - Anonymous
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 8:21:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1126057607.559440.224870@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
angelomcm <angelo88@gmail.com> says...
> Thanks Andrew Kerr for mentioning I can have an extra T-shirt.
> I never figured....
>
>
Eh? Wha'?
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 9:45:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1126112156.527486.109600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, Doug
Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> says...
> Weapons that stack are best used
> as missiles - knives, daggers, spears plus the
> ones that break. Since Expert can throw several in
> the same turn, it is only worth advancing a class
> of missiles if you can get Expert in it.

Where "missiles" are dagger, shuriken, darts, arrows, crossbow bolts and
slingables. Use of launcher where appropriate required.

IMHO knives should be there too.

Spears are rather heavy for a quiver.

> You should have all of the immunities at some point.

Acid resistance is hard to get and not that useful. Wearing YDS(M) or
alchemy smock are the only ways other than polymorphing.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 5:45:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig wrote:

> Each good newsreader should have a feature of
> ROT 13 text; else, you need to go the hard way and
> save the text, apply a ROT 13 program on it (google
> should find some, I reckon), and read it then.

www.rot13.com is an easy to use one.

Boudewijn.

--
"I have hundreds of other quotes, just waiting to replace this one
as my signature..." - Me
!