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YAAP (my second, level 15 human Tourist)

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Anonymous
September 6, 2005 1:57:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Well,

As it turns out, Magicbane was a fine choice for this character. Once
I got it by saccing, I never stopped using it. Great toy.

This was tough, though the /oWishing near the quest level helped. I
also used alchemy for a total of 22 potions of full healing, got my hit
points in the 325 range.

I wished for wands of death, a spellbook of identify, and there was
only 1 wand of teleport generated in the game!

All in all, it was fun, thanks to everyone... I can't believe I
ascended a tourist for my second win!
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 4:24:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jove wrote:
> On 5 Sep 2005 21:57:40 -0700, thiskidrob@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> >YAAP (my second, level 15 human Tourist)
>
> Congratulations! (You really should repeat your subject line in
> the post. Otherwise all replyers have to past it in, or feel
> foolish responding to something not in the post. And I did
> want to congratulate you.)

Thanks!

>
> >As it turns out, Magicbane was a fine choice for this character. Once
> >I got it by saccing, I never stopped using it. Great toy.
> >
>
> I'm a big fan myself: magic/curse resistance, when
> wielded, and one turn engraving: "Rodney is a wimp!"
>

I used the engraving probably 6 times or so, very useful in tight
spots. Especially when my char was a young buck in Minetown. He
wasn't strong enough to leave the safety of the temple there for a
while, until he acquired Magicbane. I definately would have died
without it.

> >This was tough, though the /oWishing near the quest level helped. I
> >also used alchemy for a total of 22 potions of full healing, got my hit
> >points in the 325 range.
>
> Two wands of wishing, with the PYEC?
>

Well, never having taken a tourist up to even the quest before, I was
assuming it would be tough. I actually had a pretty easy time. I
wished for blessed +2 silver dragon scale mail, that helped a bunch.

> Tell me your troubles. ;^D
>
> >
> >I wished for wands of death, a spellbook of identify, and there was
> >only 1 wand of teleport generated in the game!
>
> Very useful.
>
> With the PYEC one wand of teleport should have gone a long way.
>

Funny you should mention that. It took me a very long way. I tried
creating ast least one other thorugh polypiling, but it just wasn't
happening. And wouldn't you know, while charing it on the Astral
Planes, it exploded! Perhaps this should have the same effect as
breaking a wand of teleport? Anyways, I don't think that it did
anything except for cost me my only wand of teleport.

At that point, I started using my wands of death to make it to the 3rd
and final altar. Death was right behind me, only 2 spaces away! I was
running for my life! I had 4 wands of death. I kept them charged
well. I had so many because I was paranoid that I would run out. My
last char, a cavewoman, died on the Air plane after having her weapon
and the Amulet stolen by 2 Rodneys. Her wand of death exploded, and
she had no replacement.


> >
> >All in all, it was fun, thanks to everyone... I can't believe I
> >ascended a tourist for my second win!
>
> Nice work.
>
>

What's next...

>
> --
> All the best,
>
> Jove

Thanks
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 7:13:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Well, thanks for the tips. I am not sure what I will play next,
possibly a random generated character, so long as it is not a tourist,
or a wizard. (Wizard was my first ascension, about a month ago.)

I really liked the tip about the cloak of displacement; I did not know
that. I am somewhat spoiled, which is what gave me a chance to win.
How many people beat this game unspoiled? It cant be many.

Oh yeh, and I started and finished that character yesterday. Not
continous play, but all in the same waking day. I probably play fast
compared to others, not really sure, but I am sure that it has
contributed to many YASDs in my past.


good luck...
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Anonymous
September 6, 2005 9:43:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 5 Sep 2005 21:57:40 -0700, thiskidrob@yahoo.com wrote:



>YAAP (my second, level 15 human Tourist)

Congratulations! (You really should repeat your subject line in
the post. Otherwise all replyers have to past it in, or feel
foolish responding to something not in the post. And I did
want to congratulate you.)

>Well,
>

>As it turns out, Magicbane was a fine choice for this character. Once
>I got it by saccing, I never stopped using it. Great toy.
>

I'm a big fan myself: magic/curse resistance, when
wielded, and one turn engraving: "Rodney is a wimp!"

>This was tough, though the /oWishing near the quest level helped. I
>also used alchemy for a total of 22 potions of full healing, got my hit
>points in the 325 range.

Two wands of wishing, with the PYEC?

Tell me your troubles. ;^D

>
>I wished for wands of death, a spellbook of identify, and there was
>only 1 wand of teleport generated in the game!

Very useful.

With the PYEC one wand of teleport should have gone a long way.


>
>All in all, it was fun, thanks to everyone... I can't believe I
>ascended a tourist for my second win!

Nice work.





--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 1:03:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 6 Sep 2005 12:24:38 -0700, thiskidrob@yahoo.com wrote:

>
>Jove wrote:
>> On 5 Sep 2005 21:57:40 -0700, thiskidrob@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >YAAP (my second, level 15 human Tourist)
>>
>> Congratulations! (You really should repeat your subject line in
>> the post. Otherwise all replyers have to past it in, or feel
>> foolish responding to something not in the post. And I did
>> want to congratulate you.)
>
>Thanks!
>
>>
>> >As it turns out, Magicbane was a fine choice for this character. Once
>> >I got it by saccing, I never stopped using it. Great toy.
>> >
>>
>> I'm a big fan myself: magic/curse resistance, when
>> wielded, and one turn engraving: "Rodney is a wimp!"
>>
>
>I used the engraving probably 6 times or so, very useful in tight
>spots. Especially when my char was a young buck in Minetown. He
>wasn't strong enough to leave the safety of the temple there for a
>while, until he acquired Magicbane. I definately would have died
>without it.
>

Very good job. Knowing when you're in trouble is a big part of
the game. Then you know to use things to get out of trouble.
Good job remembering to engrave. (So many people don't seem to
remember.)

>> >This was tough, though the /oWishing near the quest level helped. I
>> >also used alchemy for a total of 22 potions of full healing, got my hit
>> >points in the 325 range.
>>
>> Two wands of wishing, with the PYEC?
>>
>
>Well, never having taken a tourist up to even the quest before, I was
>assuming it would be tough. I actually had a pretty easy time. I
>wished for blessed +2 silver dragon scale mail, that helped a bunch.

Really. Tell me your troubles again? ;^D

Actually my one tourist (who ascended on NAO) didn't seem to
have that much trouble on the Tourist Quest. Not many large
areas to get surrounded in (that I remember). Mostly street-like
corridors that channel your enemies to you one at a time.
(Why professional soldiers hate street fighting.)

And those shops! With plenty of containers for stashes, small
rooms to hole up in when there's trouble.

>
>> Tell me your troubles. ;^D
>>
>> >
>> >I wished for wands of death, a spellbook of identify, and there was
>> >only 1 wand of teleport generated in the game!
>>
>> Very useful.
>>
>> With the PYEC one wand of teleport should have gone a long way.
>>
>
>Funny you should mention that. It took me a very long way. I tried
>creating ast least one other thorugh polypiling, but it just wasn't
>happening. And wouldn't you know, while charing it on the Astral
>Planes, it exploded! Perhaps this should have the same effect as
>breaking a wand of teleport? Anyways, I don't think that it did
>anything except for cost me my only wand of teleport.
>

Excellent work. Agree that exploding wand of teleport should
have same effect as breaking it (as long as it had at least one
charge.)


>At that point, I started using my wands of death to make it to the 3rd
>and final altar. Death was right behind me, only 2 spaces away! I was
>running for my life! I had 4 wands of death. I kept them charged
>well.

You were happy! As long you stay afraid of the game, you'll do
okay. Let your fingers play it by themselves and it's DYWYPI
time.

>I had so many because I was paranoid that I would run out. My
>last char, a cavewoman, died on the Air plane after having her weapon
>and the Amulet stolen by 2 Rodneys. Her wand of death exploded, and
>she had no replacement.

Always carry a backup weapon or two. Sounds like she was too
much trouble even for that, though. That's why you should always
over prepare for the Astral Planes. Doing it right can make it
look easy, but it can go wrong in a hurry.


>
>
>> >
>> >All in all, it was fun, thanks to everyone... I can't believe I
>> >ascended a tourist for my second win!
>>
>> Nice work.
>>
>>
>
>What's next...
>

Want your ego busted? Try another tourist. ;-)


Want to make the Astral planes as easy as possible? Try it
with an experience level 30 wizard with 500 Hp and 500 Pw and
a recently refreshed Finger of Death spell.

Of course, with a wizard just surviving to Mine Town and/or
Sokoban is hard. Even with Force Bolt and a CoMR. You can use
Magicbane effectively though and that's a wizard's guaranteed
first gift.

And it's a lot of work finding spellbooks, learning spells,
learning what each spell can do and when to use it. Spells
expire after 20k turns, meaning you want to keep track of when
you learned them. Don't lose your spellbooks. (although you
can sell them early and get them back again later when you've
more money. Think of it as pawning them.)

Spell books can only be read three times. (A fourth time
if you didn't already know the spell, expired or not. That
may be to keep (master) mind flayers from being totally
disastrous to wizards.) Name each spellbook with the number
of times it's been read.

Spells tend to expire at the most inconvenient times, too.
And one after another. Trying to synchronize them is part
of being a wizard.

The good news is that when reading a non-cursed spellbook
a wizard gets a warning if it may be too difficult to read,
with the option to stop. You get two starting spells. One
of which is force bolt, a handy regenerating ranged weapon,
boulder breaker, secret door finder, and floating eye killer.

And your starting spellbooks have a read count of 0. So you
get the starting 20k turns for each spell, then three more reads
of the starting spell book.

And oh, when your second starting spell is Magic Missile,
the wizard's special spell! Or identify. Both of which
can happen.


No #twoweaponing, Magicbane's your best wielded weapon.
Starting skill for Magicbane (dagger) is Unskilled.

You don't have enough Pw early on to survive by spells. So
the early game consists of improving armor (generally at the
cost of high spell failure rates), hiding behind your pet,
and running, all while awaiting a poison instadeath.



The Quest is pretty easy and the Eye of Aethopica is one of the
best artifacts in the game: Pw regeneration and magic resistance
when carried, telepathy when worn. And it can be #invoked to
take you to any dungeon branch you've visited before. (That
save a lot of turns travelling, which makes your spells last
longer.) (I really should try #invoking the Eye on the Astral
Planes. ;-)

So there's a lot more to keep track of and know in playing
a wizard. Not to mention how to gain as many experience levels
as possible and maximize the improvements from each level.
(Wizards mad with Pw lust should advance to experience level
30 and then keep going. Seriously.)



Rogues are nice with their starting daggers and the eventual
ability to throw up to four at once. Plus daggers don't just
disappear like arrows/darts. And you're always finding more
daggers. (If I played one today I'd make stashes by the
downstairs of each early level and carry every non-cursed dagger
found.) If you get Magicbane again, you can #twoweapon with it.

The Rogue Quest is annoying, though. I don't recommend trying
it unspoiled. (My rogue on NAO ascended, along with the tourist
and a valk. I was on a hot streak in those days.)

The Rogue Quest item is okay, but nothing to write home about:

The Master Key of Thievery
(chaotic Rogue skeleton key)
Carried
Confers warning and teleport control.
Half damage when attacked physically.
Applied or wielded
Speaks to you (gives random rumour, from the true file if blessed,
the false file if cursed, or either if uncursed).
Invoked
Untraps boxes and doors with 100% success.



Knights might be interesting. From discussions here on rgrn
it looks like an early knight can survive very well by #jumping,
then 'a'pplying the lance to an enemy at a distance. You hit
without getting hit, and I don't think you can break your lance
this way. (Joust later when there's a better chance of not
breaking your lance.)

The knight's special #jumping ability does burn nutrition.
(Averages 3.5 jumps per apple/pear. 60 jumps per food ration).


So use jumping sparingly, although you can try #praying for
nutrition in an emergency. (And I don't think you have to be
mounted to #jump, so you can jump around your steed, letting it
attack while you're applying your lance.)

#jumping is also an excellent way of bravely running away.
Less so for the knight because of it's special "chess knight's
move" form.

Excalibur, of course.

The knight's Quest item, the Magic Mirror of Merlin, doubles
the damage of magic missile spells cast by lawful knights.
An experience level 30 knight with the (MMM casts magic missile
for an average of 96 damage points. Average. Maximum of 192.
Tell me about Grayswandir again?

On the plus side, you start with a saddle (on your pony).
Don't lose it and you can ride any steed in the dungeon
(including Ki-rin, which many speak of fondly.)

On the down side, your saddle can get cursed, with you stuck
to it stuck to your steed. (Wield Magicbane? :-) Wand of
opening and spell of knock will unseat you. Potions of holy
water don't help, apparently. Not sure about scroll/spell of
remove curse.

The "You caitard!" message is supposed to get tiresome as well.


(Note: I have never played a knight. My suggestions have met
with some criticism combined with resounding indifference.)



You can try a gnomish(?) healer for the protection racket. But
there's not much indication that succeeding at the racket helps
that much for ascending. The healer Quest Item, the Staff of
Aesculapius, looks good:

The Staff of Aesculapius
(neutral Healer quarterstaff)
Carried
No effect.
Wielded
x2 damage to all non-level-drain-resistant monsters (all except
undead, demons, were-creatures, and Death).
Drains levels (1 to 8 hp) from non-level-drain-resistant monsters.
Confers hungerless regeneration and protection from level drain.
Invoked
Heals half hp loss, cures sickness, unblinds (except from cream or
venom) and unslimes.

But you have to take it from the Quest Nemesis, who's using it on
*you*. (Hint: Don't melee ;-)



Barbarians (or cavemen?) have a very tough Quest Nemesis.
Ditto samurai, who otherwise are supposed to be nice. Japanese
names for common items may confuse you. Use the '/' command.


Monks are very different, with the emphasis on martial arts.
They may be weak in the endgame. (So run instead of fighting.)


Elves, the race (it used to be a class) with expert bow skill
can fire up to four arrows per turn, when using elven bows and
arrows. Not all classes can get to expert bow skill.


Non-elven rangers start with a cloak of displacement, which
can be very entertaining when properly used. (Hint: move every
time you get hit in melee so the monster has to find you again.)

Cloaks of displacement make monsters uncertain about your
location up to a two square radius. So a monster next to you
may fire in the opposite direction from you. This is supposed
to be very amusing. (Invisibility makes monsters uncertain
of your location up to a one square radius.)


And, of course, all classes have different base spell casting
ability, different spell schools they can advance in, different
skill limits on those spell schools. Ditto for weapon schools
and skill limits.

The intrinsics gained at given experience levels varies a *lot*.
Wizards get teleport at will (can trigger ring of teleport) at
Exp 8, warning at Exp 15, and teleport control at 17.

At the other end, Monks get intrinsics almost every other
level (due to their "official" vegan diet precluding getting
most intrinsics by eating.)


So, stare at the class, race, spellcasting, weapon, quest,
and artifact spoilers for awhile...or just roll up something
at random. :-)


--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 1:49:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <s4srh19o9rm6efl1232uqms09dkbpor02n@4ax.com>, Jove
<invalid@invalid.invalid> says...
> The "You caitard!" message is supposed to get tiresome as well.
>
My knights have never seen that message, so it's not tiresome at all.

"You caitiff!" OTOH...

:) 
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 3:04:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 6 Sep 2005 15:13:08 -0700, thiskidrob@yahoo.com wrote:

>Well, thanks for the tips. I am not sure what I will play next,
>possibly a random generated character, so long as it is not a tourist,
>or a wizard. (Wizard was my first ascension, about a month ago.)
>
I *was* wondering. :-)

>I really liked the tip about the cloak of displacement; I did not know
>that. I am somewhat spoiled, which is what gave me a chance to win.
>How many people beat this game unspoiled? It cant be many.

There has been much discussion on whether it's even possible to
ascend unspoiled. (That's part of why I'd like to see multiple
player capability. It could allow Nethack's rich environment
to be used as more of an random DND scenario, with the emphasis
on exploring and getting out alive instead of spoiling one's self
silly then going ascension or nothing.)

For someone who did very well indeed unspoiled look up Krysia's
Crusader's posts to rgrn. (I believe someone put them into pdf
format and put them on a website as well.)

I'm not sure if there are any documented unspoiled ascensions
of Nethack. (Rogue and Hack I'm less sure of.)

>
>Oh yeh, and I started and finished that character yesterday. Not
>continous play, but all in the same waking day. I probably play fast
>compared to others, not really sure, but I am sure that it has
>contributed to many YASDs in my past.

Well, someone just posted an ascension that took a year in
real time. One day is impressive. (So is a year, for that
matter.)

But enough with the Scrolls of Fast Typing, already. One of
Nethack's strengths is supposed to be that you don't have to play
that way. Although it's probably a strength that you can play
that way anyway.

>
>
>good luck...

Ditto.


--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 5:21:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jove wrote:
> On 6 Sep 2005 15:13:08 -0700, thiskidrob@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>I really liked the tip about the cloak of displacement; I did not know
>>that. I am somewhat spoiled, which is what gave me a chance to win.
>>How many people beat this game unspoiled? It cant be many.
>
> There has been much discussion on whether it's even possible to
> ascend unspoiled. (That's part of why I'd like to see multiple
> player capability. It could allow Nethack's rich environment
> to be used as more of an random DND scenario, with the emphasis
> on exploring and getting out alive instead of spoiling one's self
> silly then going ascension or nothing.)
>
> For someone who did very well indeed unspoiled look up Krysia's
> Crusader's posts to rgrn. (I believe someone put them into pdf
> format and put them on a website as well.)
>
> I'm not sure if there are any documented unspoiled ascensions
> of Nethack. (Rogue and Hack I'm less sure of.)
>
I beat hack totally unspoiled, lo these many years ago. I didn't
really have *access* to spoilers. It was a much simpler game than modern
nethack, though, and it still took me years to pull off.

I was spoiled rotten when I ascended my first nethack character.

And I still don't believe that it's actually possible to *beat*
Rogue.

--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 8:02:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 01:21:36 GMT, John Campbell
<jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com> wrote:

> I beat hack totally unspoiled, lo these many years ago. I didn't
>really have *access* to spoilers. It was a much simpler game than modern
>nethack, though, and it still took me years to pull off.
>
> I was spoiled rotten when I ascended my first nethack character.
>
> And I still don't believe that it's actually possible to *beat*
>Rogue.

I saw some spoilers very recently about beating it. The new
concept (to me) was that almost all maps had at least one path
you could use to lead monsters around in a circle, hitting and
healing alternately.

I still don't know that I believe it will work. I know Rogue
can be beaten by hacking the (encrypted) save file. I saw it
done. :-)


--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 11:47:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

thiskidrob@yahoo.com wrote:
> All in all, it was fun, thanks to everyone... I can't believe I
> ascended a tourist for my second win!

Congratulations! I did the same, some years ago. (My first was an
Elf.) Tourists, as you undoubtedly discovered, are tough in the
beginning but have usually become the proverbial Unstoppable Killing
Machine by the end of the game. It helps that the Master of Thieves is
such a pushover, though.

--
Oh to have a lodge in some vast wilderness. Where rumors of oppression
and deceit, of unsuccessful and successful wars may never reach me
anymore.
-- William Cowper
!