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2x YANI: Wishing for non magic items

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Anonymous
September 7, 2005 9:37:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

#1: New conduct: Did not wish for a magical item

#2: Wishes which can be used only on unenchanted and uncursed non magical
items.

There's a list of magical objects in wan2-343.txt on Dylan O'Donnell's
page.

The vast majority of wishes would I expect be spent on magical items. There
are however uncommon and useful non magical items, but which do not usually
justify a wish. Most can be polypiled for. Some include:

Tsurugi, katana, lance, shuriken, silver weapons
Oilskin cloak, shirt
Lenses, cans of grease, wooden harp, wooden flute, saddle, icebox,
stethoscope, tinning kit, oilskin sack
Gold, gems
Potion of sickness

Crysknife for some early characters.

20 silver arrows would I think be a good wish for some classes anyway (e.g.
Ranger). 7 candles will sometimes be a necessary wish.

Dragon scales are non magical (mail is magical). Alchemy smocks are
magical, which seems odd to me.

Related questions:
Has anyone ever encountered a tsurugi other than Muramasa's?

Has anyone ever got good use out of a tsurugi other than Muramasa's?
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 9:37:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andrew Kerr wrote:
>
> Has anyone ever encountered a tsurugi other than Muramasa's?
> Has anyone ever got good use out of a tsurugi other than Muramasa's?

It has already been mentioned that the only way to get
one is a wish or a post-Quest samurai enountering a
bones file from another post-Quest samurai.

Similar situation with a runesword. The only way to
get one is from a wish or already have Stormy when
you encounter a bones file with Stormy in it.

The list that monsters use to select weapons starts:
cockatrice/chickatrice corpse, tsurugi, runesword, dwarvish mattock ...

fooatrice corpse is a finite resource, dwarvish mattocks
become reasonably common at some point. This suggests
that the DevTeam thinks that the best non-artifact weapon
may be tsurugi then runesword.

Has anyone tried a challenge of wish-yes, artifact-no and
done a game with either? If I were to do an artifact-free
game I'd be likely to try crysknife.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 1:47:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1126129148.958664.142060@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Doug
Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> says...
> This suggests
> that the DevTeam thinks that the best non-artifact weapon
> may be tsurugi then runesword.
>
>
A runesword does the same damage as a normal broadsword, less than an elven
broadsword. It weighs less though, weighing the same as a long sword.
Related resources
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Anonymous
September 8, 2005 9:46:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Andrew Kerr" <andykerr@SPAMGUARD.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d896ec9a0694844989703@news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> In article <5WITe.639$yH2.387@trnddc05>, John Campbell <jcampbel@lynn.ci-
> n.com> says...
>> Andrew Kerr wrote:
>> > In article <dfn98d$a7d$1@reader1.panix.com>, Nan Wang <nwang@panix.com>
>> > says...
>> >
>> >>Andrew Kerr <andykerr@spamguard.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Has anyone ever got good use out of a tsurugi other than Muramasa's?
>> >>
<major Snippage of the discussion of two handers>
> Does #twoweaponing with two cursed weapons have the same penalties as
> wielding one cursed 2-handed weapon?

No, it's just impossible.

One is forced to drop the secondary weapon if it becomes cursed when the
primary is already cursed (or vice-versa) One can then pick it up, but not
switch weapons to re-weild it.

The only other situation where both hands can become useless is when wearing
a cursed sheild and a cursed item in weapon hand.

Danny
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 11:36:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Would you be able to wish for a rubber chicken using this method?
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 11:57:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 2005-09-07, Andrew Kerr wrote:
> Dragon scales are non magical (mail is magical). Alchemy smocks are
> magical, which seems odd to me.
>
Well, they do protect against eaten poisonous corpses. Doesn't seem like
normal apron behaviour to me.

--
Jann Ohle Claussen | GPG-Key-ID E7149169
http://www.stud.uni-goettingen.de/~s251251
BOFH Excuse #229:
wrong polarity of neutron flow
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 6:21:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Nan Wang wrote:
> Andrew Kerr <andykerr@spamguard.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > Tsurugi, katana, lance, shuriken, silver weapons
>
> Why katana, it's not significantly better than a long sword? Same for
> shurikens.

But katana is better than long sword except for getting Excalibur. Why
wouldn't you want katana if you don't want/can't dip for Excalibur?

>
> > Crysknife for some early characters.
>
> One would think crysknives are magical, given how they are obtained.

Agreed. That's odd.

-K
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 7:39:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1126190177.495830.7300@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Electronic Samurai <Crash_jet@hotmail.com> says...
> Would you be able to wish for a rubber chicken using this method?
>
>
Yes, but then they have a limited life span. Wishing for one at the
beginning of a game won't help a player ascend.

Wishing for one on the Quest or the planes OTOH...
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 11:38:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andrew Kerr <andykerr@spamguard.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Tsurugi, katana, lance, shuriken, silver weapons

Why katana, it's not significantly better than a long sword? Same for
shurikens.

> Crysknife for some early characters.

One would think crysknives are magical, given how they are obtained.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 11:58:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Electronic Samurai wrote:
> Would you be able to wish for a rubber chicken using this method?

By which method? By wielding cursed weapons? I really don't see what
your post has to do with Daniel's and what method you're talking about.
Please enlighten me (and please quote some context).


--
If geiger counter does not click,
the coffee, she is just not thick
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 1:38:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:38:33 +0000 (UTC), Nan Wang <nwang@panix.com> scribed
into the ether:

>Andrew Kerr <andykerr@spamguard.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Crysknife for some early characters.
>
>One would think crysknives are magical, given how they are obtained.

True, but the "real" crysknives are decidedly non.
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 11:00:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Nan Wang wrote:
<snip>
> While that's true, it's in my opinion wasteful to wish for one, given how
> ubiquous long swords are.

However, we are talking about 'Wishing for *only* non-magic items'
conduct here. You'll end up wishing for some wasteful thing anyways.
No magic marker, no artifacts, almost all the nice armor peices you
want to wish for are magic, etcs.

Not that it's a great idea. But it's an idea.

-K
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 1:26:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Nan Wang wrote:
<snip>
> Doesn't mean it's not a waste. If I were to wish for a non artifact weapon,
> silver saber/spear would take higher priority.

Don't forget the silver daggers! You can even wish for a stack of
silver daggers...do spears stack too? I *think* they do...

-K
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 5:15:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <dfq3vp$fm2$1@reader1.panix.com>, Nan Wang <nwang@panix.com>
says...
> Andrew Kerr <andykerr@spamguard.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > Tsurugi, katana, lance, shuriken, silver weapons
>
> Why katana, it's not significantly better than a long sword? Same for
> shurikens.

But katana are so much more fashionable.

Compare shuriken with elven daggers:

Advantages:
1/10th the weight
More base damage (approx 1.5*)
Can be poisoned

Disadvantages:
Break, (rarely if blessed)
Do not share skill class with silver
Not useful in melee (not that daggers are particularly good either)

With arrows:

Advantages:
+2 to hit
Do not require launcher
Slightly more damage (comparable with ya)

Disadvantages:
Do not share skill class with silver weapon

However, the way max skills are distributed for each character class (along
with multi throw bonuses for Rogue and Samurai) probably means they're only
good for Healers.

Although that reminds me: Samurai may decide to use a non magical wish on
20 ya.

> > Crysknife for some early characters.
>
> One would think crysknives are magical, given how they are obtained.
>
>
Weapons aren't listed in the spoiler. I'd have to source dive to find the
answer to this, but can't be bothered right now ;) 
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 5:37:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Nan Wang wrote:
> Kremti wrote:
> > Nan Wang wrote:
>
> > > While that's true, it's in my opinion wasteful to wish for one, given how
> > > ubiquous long swords are.
>
> > However, we are talking about 'Wishing for *only* non-magic items'
> > conduct here. You'll end up wishing for some wasteful thing anyways.
> > No magic marker, no artifacts, almost all the nice armor peices you
> > want to wish for are magic, etcs.
>
> > Not that it's a great idea. But it's an idea.
>
> Doesn't mean it's not a waste. If I were to wish for a non artifact weapon,
> silver saber/spear would take higher priority.

Both long swords and silver sabers are common items because
captains and the watch captain come with 50-50 chance of
those two weapons.

In comparison katana and silver spear/dagger are rare
because they only appear in random drops or the katana in
a samurai's starting items.

Because long sword and silver saber are common, tusuri is
two handed, runesword isn't that much better and crysknives
easily made, my non-magical weapon wish is "blessed
rustproof +3 athame". Athames only appear in the initial
inventory of archliches and (IIRC) never in random drops.
I'd rather burn a wish on one than face enough archliches
to have one ensured.

Going non-magical I'd emerge from the mines with mithril,
the best of the other individual armor items, whichever of
long sword or silver saber that nice watch captain left
me in his will, a quiver of whateve daggers I'd found,
and my weapon wish would be an athame. Is Sting magical?
If not it would be my backup weapon until the athame
arrived.
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 5:50:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:15:28 GMT, Andrew Kerr
<andykerr@SPAMGUARD.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <dfq3vp$fm2$1@reader1.panix.com>, Nan Wang <nwang@panix.com>
>says...
>> Andrew Kerr <andykerr@spamguard.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Tsurugi, katana, lance, shuriken, silver weapons
>>
>> Why katana, it's not significantly better than a long sword? Same for
>> shurikens.
>
>But katana are so much more fashionable.

Sounds good to me. :-)

>
>Compare shuriken with elven daggers:
>
>Advantages:
>1/10th the weight
>More base damage (approx 1.5*)
>Can be poisoned
>
>Disadvantages:
>Break, (rarely if blessed)

Sounds kind of like the tourist's starting darts. Use them
up and you'll get to where you can bless them and increase your
luck to where the remainder will last a while.

Try to save them until you're sure you won't lose them and
they'll just end up in a bones file. ;-)


>Do not share skill class with silver
>Not useful in melee (not that daggers are particularly good either)


Daggers, and presumably shuriken and arrows too, can be
thrown/fired at any distance, even melee range.


>
>With arrows:
>
>Advantages:
>+2 to hit
>Do not require launcher
>Slightly more damage (comparable with ya)
>
>Disadvantages:
>Do not share skill class with silver weapon


The disadvantage with shuriken that has come up before
is getting a decent supply of them. Shuriken traps have
been requested to rectify this.


<Snipperio>

--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 5:51:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kremti <kremti@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nan Wang wrote:
> > Andrew Kerr <andykerr@spamguard.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Tsurugi, katana, lance, shuriken, silver weapons
> >
> > Why katana, it's not significantly better than a long sword? Same for
> > shurikens.

> But katana is better than long sword except for getting Excalibur. Why
> wouldn't you want katana if you don't want/can't dip for Excalibur?

While that's true, it's in my opinion wasteful to wish for one, given how
ubiquous long swords are.
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 6:37:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kremti <kremti@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nan Wang wrote:
> <snip>
> > While that's true, it's in my opinion wasteful to wish for one, given how
> > ubiquous long swords are.

> However, we are talking about 'Wishing for *only* non-magic items'
> conduct here. You'll end up wishing for some wasteful thing anyways.
> No magic marker, no artifacts, almost all the nice armor peices you
> want to wish for are magic, etcs.

> Not that it's a great idea. But it's an idea.

Doesn't mean it's not a waste. If I were to wish for a non artifact weapon,
silver saber/spear would take higher priority.
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 7:03:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Matt Frisch wrote:
> Nan Wang scribed:
> Kremti wrote:
>
> >> But katana is better than long sword except for getting Excalibur. Why
> >> wouldn't you want katana if you don't want/can't dip for Excalibur?
>
> >While that's true, it's in my opinion wasteful to wish for one, given how
> >ubiquous long swords are.
>
> Which isn't my experience at all, actually. I find them incredibly hard to
> find until you get to around DL10 or so and Barrow Wights start to show
> up...even they are fairly uncommon.

Note the interesting difference in views. One sees long
swords as being everywhere because types of monsters carry
them and in time you'll have plenty. The other sees them
as rare because of how many levels it takes to be certain
of getting them. It implies different skill level in the
early game. Either that or it means someone plays Valks
and since a Valk starts with a long sword the RNG will
see that game hip deep in stacks of long swords! ;^)

It also implies something about willingness to kill the
watch captain for his weapon even if you're lawfull.
Chaotics get no penalty for killing the watch, but I have
long considered that a 50% chance of a long sword that
can be dipped makes it worth a lawfull character paying
the price and then fixing it at the altar. For me not
killing peacefulls is a choice that includes asking
myself if their items are worth an exception. "If you
want to make an omlette you have to break some eggs."

> But then I also have terrible luck with stores. All of the games with good
> stores I end up dying early. My current game, where I just beat the castle
> for the first time, the only 3 stores in the whole game are in minetown.
> Izchak's (ofc), a 2x2 food store, and a pair of 2x3 general/tool stores. No
> longswords to be had.

The RNG is evil.

If you beat the Castle (and Ludios?) the chances are very
low that you have not seen long swords. Watch captain 50%,
barrow wights and then Nzgul on the way down. Captains
mixed into the soldier mix on both fortress levels at 50%
each.

Another approach - Does not wishing for magical items
include atheist conduct? If not altar camping often gives
long sword artifacts.
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 8:46:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1126283188.223705.219390@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, Kremti
<kremti@gmail.com> says...
> do spears stack too? I *think* they do...
>
>
They do.

They don't multi throw though.
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 1:08:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:51:42 +0000 (UTC), Nan Wang <nwang@panix.com> scribed
into the ether:

>Kremti <kremti@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Nan Wang wrote:
>> > Andrew Kerr <andykerr@spamguard.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> > > Tsurugi, katana, lance, shuriken, silver weapons
>> >
>> > Why katana, it's not significantly better than a long sword? Same for
>> > shurikens.
>
>> But katana is better than long sword except for getting Excalibur. Why
>> wouldn't you want katana if you don't want/can't dip for Excalibur?
>
>While that's true, it's in my opinion wasteful to wish for one, given how
>ubiquous long swords are.

Which isn't my experience at all, actually. I find them incredibly hard to
find until you get to around DL10 or so and Barrow Wights start to show
up...even they are fairly uncommon.

But then I also have terrible luck with stores. All of the games with good
stores I end up dying early. My current game, where I just beat the castle
for the first time, the only 3 stores in the whole game are in minetown.
Izchak's (ofc), a 2x2 food store, and a pair of 2x3 general/tool stores. No
longswords to be had.
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 2:04:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1126298260.279514.63520@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Doug
Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> says...
> my non-magical weapon wish is "blessed
> rustproof +3 athame". Athames only appear in the initial
> inventory of archliches and (IIRC) never in random drops.
> I'd rather burn a wish on one than face enough archliches
> to have one ensured.
>
>
Aha, I'd forgotten athames. They are indeed never randomly generated
(excepting archliches), much like the tsurugi.

Bullwhips are very rare too.
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 2:42:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Doug Freyburger wrote:

> Going non-magical I'd emerge from the mines with mithril,
> the best of the other individual armor items, whichever of
> long sword or silver saber that nice watch captain left
> me in his will, a quiver of whateve daggers I'd found,
> and my weapon wish would be an athame. Is Sting magical?
> If not it would be my backup weapon until the athame
> arrived.

Sting is as magic as any other artifact weapon. But wishing for
it would be rather a waste, anyway, considering how easy it is to make.

--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 2:46:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Andrew Kerr wrote:
> In article <1126298260.279514.63520@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Doug
> Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> says...
>
>>my non-magical weapon wish is "blessed
>>rustproof +3 athame". Athames only appear in the initial
>>inventory of archliches and (IIRC) never in random drops.
>>I'd rather burn a wish on one than face enough archliches
>>to have one ensured.
>
> Aha, I'd forgotten athames. They are indeed never randomly generated
> (excepting archliches), much like the tsurugi.
>
> Bullwhips are very rare too.

Balrogs carry them. But I suppose those fall into the "I'd
rather burn a wish" category...


--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 9:16:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 9 Sep 2005 15:03:51 -0700, "Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com>
scribed into the ether:

>Matt Frisch wrote:
>> Nan Wang scribed:
>> Kremti wrote:
>>
>> >> But katana is better than long sword except for getting Excalibur. Why
>> >> wouldn't you want katana if you don't want/can't dip for Excalibur?
>>
>> >While that's true, it's in my opinion wasteful to wish for one, given how
>> >ubiquous long swords are.
>>
>> Which isn't my experience at all, actually. I find them incredibly hard to
>> find until you get to around DL10 or so and Barrow Wights start to show
>> up...even they are fairly uncommon.
>
>Note the interesting difference in views. One sees long
>swords as being everywhere because types of monsters carry
>them and in time you'll have plenty. The other sees them
>as rare because of how many levels it takes to be certain
>of getting them. It implies different skill level in the
>early game. Either that or it means someone plays Valks
>and since a Valk starts with a long sword the RNG will
>see that game hip deep in stacks of long swords! ;^)

Even playing a Valk, I don't see them much (beyond the starting one of
course, which I've never successfully Excaliburized)

>It also implies something about willingness to kill the
>watch captain for his weapon even if you're lawfull.

Oh, I have no moral difficulties with killing the captain, it's the ability
to do so that many of my characters lack. And usually when they do, he has
a sabre instead.

>> But then I also have terrible luck with stores. All of the games with good
>> stores I end up dying early. My current game, where I just beat the castle
>> for the first time, the only 3 stores in the whole game are in minetown.
>> Izchak's (ofc), a 2x2 food store, and a pair of 2x3 general/tool stores. No
>> longswords to be had.
>
>The RNG is evil.
>
>If you beat the Castle (and Ludios?) the chances are very
>low that you have not seen long swords. Watch captain 50%,
>barrow wights and then Nzgul on the way down. Captains
>mixed into the soldier mix on both fortress levels at 50%
>each.

Oh, by the time I hit the castle I'd found bunches. But this character was
not a longsword user (although my god sure didn't seem to know this, as he
kept dropping artifact LSs on me). It's earlier on when Excalibur would
make a monumental difference that the basis weapons are so hard to come by.

Anyway, for a Valk, I find it better to just throw some corpses on the
altar, Mojo is sweet, even without the gauntlets. Corpses are not in short
supply.
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 4:19:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 11 Sep 2005 12:54:34 -0700, "Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com>
scribed into the ether:

>Matt Frisch wrote:
>> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>> >Matt Frisch wrote:
>> >> Nan Wang scribed:
>> >> Kremti wrote:
>>
>> >> > ... given how ubiquous long swords are.
>>
>> >> Which isn't my experience at all, actually. I find them incredibly hard to
>> >> find until you get to around DL10 or so and Barrow Wights start to show
>> >> up...even they are fairly uncommon.
>>
>> >Note the interesting difference in views. One sees long
>> >swords as being everywhere because types of monsters carry
>> >them and in time you'll have plenty. The other sees them
>> >as rare because of how many levels it takes to be certain
>> >of getting them. It implies different skill level in the
>> >early game. Either that or it means someone plays Valks
>> >and since a Valk starts with a long sword the RNG will
>> >see that game hip deep in stacks of long swords! ;^)
>>
>> Even playing a Valk, I don't see them much (beyond the starting one of
>> course, which I've never successfully Excaliburized)
>
>If your Valk is lawfull then either you don't know the
>requirements or you have not been persistant enough. I
>have run dry every fountain down to level 10 in the
>process but never failed to get Excalibur except from
>dying in the attempts.

I've never had a problem dipping a found longsword for Excalibur, but the
one I start with seems...cursed, and not in the game sense. It always
either dries up the fountain, or blows up the fountain, or summons a
hostile water demon.

>> >It also implies something about willingness to kill the
>> >watch captain for his weapon even if you're lawfull.
>>
>> Oh, I have no moral difficulties with killing the captain, it's the ability
>> to do so that many of my characters lack.
>
>Are you taking them out on the way down rather than on
>the way back up?

Either. I want to avoid the alignment hit, so I don't do it myself. A large
dog/cat isn't good enough by itself to do this, so I need to either wait
until I find a healing spellbook, or until I can tame/poly for a beefier
pet.

>On the way back up your pet should be able to handle the
>regular watchmen just fine so a bit of pet dancing to
>wear the watch captain down a bit tends to work.

Regular watchmen are cold meat to a large cat/dog. The captain is a lot
trickier.

>> Anyway, for a Valk, I find it better to just throw some corpses on the
>> altar, Mojo is sweet, even without the gauntlets. Corpses are not in short
>> supply.
>
>A lawfull Valk is assured of both Excalibur and Mojo.

Throwing corpses on the altar has the virtue of no drawbacks. Dipping is
highly dangerous.
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 4:47:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 00:19:14 GMT, Matt Frisch
<matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

>On 11 Sep 2005 12:54:34 -0700, "Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com>
>scribed into the ether:
>
>Either. I want to avoid the alignment hit, so I don't do it myself. A large
>dog/cat isn't good enough by itself to do this, so I need to either wait
>until I find a healing spellbook, or until I can tame/poly for a beefier
>pet.
>
>>On the way back up your pet should be able to handle the
>>regular watchmen just fine so a bit of pet dancing to
>>wear the watch captain down a bit tends to work.
>
>Regular watchmen are cold meat to a large cat/dog. The captain is a lot
>trickier.

Use two fully developed large pets at once.

Or, and be aware I haven't tried this, soften up the captain
first yourself, then let your pet perform the coup de gras.
A stethoscope would probably help a lot.


(If you soften up a peaceful, then lead it into a trap that
kills it, do you get the blame?)



--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 5:09:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 00:47:12 GMT, Jove <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

<yes, I'm following up my own post again>

>On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 00:19:14 GMT, Matt Frisch
><matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>
>>On 11 Sep 2005 12:54:34 -0700, "Doug Freyburger" <dfreybur@yahoo.com>
>>scribed into the ether:
>>
>>Either. I want to avoid the alignment hit, so I don't do it myself. A large
>>dog/cat isn't good enough by itself to do this, so I need to either wait
>>until I find a healing spellbook, or until I can tame/poly for a beefier
>>pet.
>>
>>>On the way back up your pet should be able to handle the
>>>regular watchmen just fine so a bit of pet dancing to
>>>wear the watch captain down a bit tends to work.
>>
>>Regular watchmen are cold meat to a large cat/dog. The captain is a lot
>>trickier.
>
> Use two fully developed large pets at once.
>
> Or, and be aware I haven't tried this, soften up the captain
>first yourself, then let your pet perform the coup de gras.
>A stethoscope would probably help a lot.
>
>
> (If you soften up a peaceful, then lead it into a trap that
>kills it, do you get the blame?)

What if it's a bear trap you set?

A ring of conflict could help, too. (Lock your pet up in
a room by itself.)

Maneuver the captain between yourself and any hostile monsters
with ranged attacks that come by. Having reflection and poison
resistance would be a good idea.

If no hostile monsters with ranged attacks come by, make some.
Drop a wand of magic missile or cold/fire/lightning/death for
a gnome to use. Be sure you have reflection first.

--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 11:10:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jove wrote:
> Matt Frisch wrote:
> > Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > I want to avoid the alignment hit, so I don't do it myself ...

The alignment is easily repaired. Non-chaotics losing
telepathy takes more work. Incautious characters dying
takes considerably more work.

> >>On the way back up your pet should be able to handle the
> >>regular watchmen just fine so a bit of pet dancing to
> >>wear the watch captain down a bit tends to work.
>
> >Regular watchmen are cold meat to a large cat/dog. The captain is a lot
> >trickier.

I've lost pets who got in between a regular watchman and
the watch captain and then didn't focus on just one.
The captain's better weapon makes a big difference in
killing your pet.

> Use two fully developed large pets at once.
>
> Or, and be aware I haven't tried this, soften up the captain
> first yourself, then let your pet perform the coup de gras.
> A stethoscope would probably help a lot.
>
> (If you soften up a peaceful, then lead it into a trap that
> kills it, do you get the blame?)

Getting the captain to get stuck in a bear trap would make
killing him much easier. Set trap out of sight, dance captain
into trap, start throwing missiles. Prep stacks of rocks in
the vicinity before setting the trap. Similar to using the
altar as a leash when going after the priest in the shrine.
next time I'm returning from mines end I'll try this and see
if the watch captain knows traps not in the original level.
Bear traps work so well in Ludios, may as well use them
elsewhere.
!