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Mid-Early game help needed (invisible pet)

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Anonymous
September 8, 2005 7:34:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Hi.

I just successfully completed an early game protection racket for the
first time, but need some strategic and tactical advice with how to
procede.

Wolfram, the Dwarvish Valkyrie started out quite promisingly by finding
an armory and the mines entrance on the second level.

The armory contained every goody imaginable, e.g. Speed Boots, Cloak of
Protection, Cloak of Displacement, 2xJumping Boots, cursed crested
helmet, some other assorted gloves & boots and lots of plate mail.

I proceded with having my pet repeatedly steal plate mails and selling
them back to the shopkeeper until he was out of money, and I had a
plate mail, CoP, Speed Boots, leather glowes and blssed rustproof +1
dwarvish helm. So I get to minetown with about -3 AC and 2300 gold,
donate 400 at a time to the priest and am now at natural AC 3. The
shops contain a BoH, and some lamps that I have yet to ID. I am forced
to fight a few monsters on the way back to the top levels, so I (very)
quickly ascend to exp.lvl 6, but manage to find some Eye'o'Beholders,
and eat one. Next up is poison resistance, so I eat every poisoned
creature I find, going down to 9 in strength, and have to stash my
plate because I am constantly burdened. Finally I 'feel healthy', use
my speed and Excalibur (+2) to kill a black unicorn and fix my strength
issues with its horn.

One dilemma is that while traversing the upper levels, I encounter a
room full of mordor orcs and an Eye. I don't have enough missile
weapons to deal with the eye, without taking a chance and throwing
Excalibur, so I back off down the corridor, displace my pet between me
and the eye, and my pet is frozen in it's gaze. Now the orcs start
pummeling it and I get worried about my large and experienced dog,
which I was going to use to loot some stores, so I think, and finally
decide to make it invisible with a !ofInvisbility to hopefully save it.
This works. The orcs don't see the pet and I can make a roundabout to
another entrance and kill them all. My pet wakes up, but now I keep
stumbling on it accidentally, so I leave it to go exploring down the
dungeon.

So now I am wondering what to do next. I know I need to get some
armor, but the only mithril I have found is cursed, so I guess I'll use
the plate, but it's quite heavy. Is it adviseable to start killing
peacful dwarves in the mines to find mithril armor. I know my pet
could handle it, but I have no idea how to make it visible again (still
haven't found a blindfold/towel). If I get mithril, should I continue
using the CoP or switch to the +2 CoDispl?

Also, I need to bless my BoH and Unicorn Horn. I have lots of un-ID'd
potions and 4 scrolls of identify, so I'm wondering if I should dilute
some potions at random, or if I should try to price id and dip w/horn
to find out what to keep. Usually I just dilute anything to get holy
water, but aren't there some potions worth keeping, even if I don't get
all the holy waters I want?
What is the easiest way to find those valuable potions?

And regarding my weapons. I have excalibur and mojo, plus one
unremarkable longsword. Should I switch to mojo (since I am neutral I
am a bit vary of the blasting effect), start two-weaponing excalibur
and the vanilla longsword (might enchant it or try to luck out with
offering and get something better) or just continue with excalibur and
the +3 small shield (burnt)?
And how can I make my pet visible again?

Any advice would be much appreciated. (Gotta love the variety in this
game)

--
Wolfram
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 8:10:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Wolfram wrote:
> Hi.

Hi.

> I eat every poisoned
> creature I find, going down to 9 in strength, and have to stash my
> plate because I am constantly burdened. Finally I 'feel healthy', use
> my speed and Excalibur (+2) to kill a black unicorn and fix my strength
> issues with its horn.

I'd have gotten the horn before eating the corpses, but it seems to
have worked for you...

> I know my pet could handle it, but I have no idea how to make it
> visible again (still haven't found a blindfold/towel).

Rather than make the pet visible, get yourself the "see invisible"
intrinsic. There are several ways to do this, and not all of them
involve becoming permanently invisible yourself.

> Also, I need to bless my BoH and Unicorn Horn. I have lots of un-ID'd
> potions and 4 scrolls of identify, so I'm wondering if I should dilute
> some potions at random,

dip the unihorn into the potions. Useful potions like foo healing will
be unnaffected, but those you were goinf to dilute anyway (booze,
hallucination) will change into either fruit juiec or water.

Other advice: go get that cursed mithril, and use either a holy water
and/or a scroll of ID on it. Even if you don't have enough water to
uncurse it, it might be at +0, in which case it's worth wearing anyway,
for now. If you wear or carry it while praying at an altar, there's a
chance your god will uncurse it for you.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 11:31:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Wolfram wrote:
> [...] Next up is poison resistance, so I eat every poisoned
> creature I find, going down to 9 in strength, and have to stash my
> plate because I am constantly burdened. Finally I 'feel healthy', use
> my speed and Excalibur (+2) to kill a black unicorn and fix my strength
> issues with its horn.

Good plan, but if you get the unicorn horn first, you don't need to worry
about your strength getting down to 9 and getting burdened. I usually
just eat shrieker corpses and rely on other forms of poison resistance
if possible until I have a good way to sustain/restore ability. You
balance the risk of instadeath by poison off with the risk of getting
burdened, reducing your AC because you have to stash your plate, and
lowering the damage you do in melee.

> [...] My pet wakes up, but now I keep
> stumbling on it accidentally, so I leave it to go exploring down the
> dungeon.

Don't leave it by itself too long, or it will go feral. Then, you'll
have an invisible large dog running around, which is probably not a
good thing at this point.

> So now I am wondering what to do next. I know I need to get some
> armor, but the only mithril I have found is cursed, so I guess I'll use
> the plate, but it's quite heavy. Is it adviseable to start killing
> peacful dwarves in the mines to find mithril armor.

You suffer a small alignment penalty for killing peaceful monsters,
but you generally make that up easily with all the hostiles you kill.
Mostly, be very careful trying to convert altars if you do this, unless
you're sure you're positively aligned.

> I know my pet
> could handle it, but I have no idea how to make it visible again (still
> haven't found a blindfold/towel).

Your best bet is to get the see invisible intrinsic, then your problem
is solved. Quaffing a blessed potion of see invisible is one way. Your
deity will sometimes grant you this when you pray. There's also a chance
of getting it when quaffing from a fountain, but that's risky and I avoid
that. You can also get the intrinsic from eating certain corpses, like
invisible stalkers. Mixing !oFruit Juice with !oGain Energy/Gain Level
gives you !oSee Invisible.

> If I get mithril, should I continue
> using the CoP or switch to the +2 CoDispl?

Mithril is magic cancellation ###, and a +2 [oDisp is the same AC as
a +0 [oProt, so there's no reason not to switch. But, remember that
[oDisp is only magic cancellation ##, so if you switch body armor to
something that isn't ###, you should switch back to your [oProt.

> Also, I need to bless my BoH and Unicorn Horn. I have lots of un-ID'd
> potions and 4 scrolls of identify, so I'm wondering if I should dilute
> some potions at random, or if I should try to price id and dip w/horn
> to find out what to keep.

Generally, if you dip w/horn and it clears, it wasn't that useful anyway.
Some potions that will change might have been slightly useful for alchemy,
but nothing really good (booze+enlightenment goes to confusion,
confusion+gain energy/gain level has 1/3 chance of going to enlightenment,
and enlightenment+levitation has 2/3 chance of going to gain level).
Your !oConfusion will clear to water if you unidip it, and your !oBooze
will clear to fruit juice if you unidip it.

A few issues: if it's a potion of polymorph, you'll lose your horn, so you
might want to dip something else first that you don't mind losing. Also,
some of your potions will clear to fruit juice instead of water, so you
can use one of them to make !oSee Invisible if you don't already have it,
and #dip the rest to clear them.

> Usually I just dilute anything to get holy
> water, but aren't there some potions worth keeping, even if I don't get
> all the holy waters I want?
> What is the easiest way to find those valuable potions?

There are a bunch of good potions. I thing the unidip trick is safe,
but I'd keep the rest safe until they are IDed. You wouldn't want to
waste your gain abilities, full healings, and so on, would you?

> And regarding my weapons. I have excalibur and mojo, plus one
> unremarkable longsword. Should I switch to mojo (since I am neutral I
> am a bit vary of the blasting effect), start two-weaponing excalibur
> and the vanilla longsword (might enchant it or try to luck out with
> offering and get something better) or just continue with excalibur and
> the +3 small shield (burnt)?

This is a "taste" thing, but I'd say at your current level, reduced AC
is very important, and since you're not a spell caster, I'd stick with the
+3 small shield. Mojo and Excalibur are both good weapons. Personally,
I'd probably stick with Excalibur because of the searching and level drain
resist, but you can't go wrong with either.

> And how can I make my pet visible again?

You can't. I'm guessing that if your pet was attacked by gremlins
at night, there's a small chance that they'd steal his invisibility,
but I'm not sure if that works with pets and I'm too lazy to check
(it's such a hard thing to do in practice that it's almost academic
anyway).

> Any advice would be much appreciated. (Gotta love the variety in this
> game)

When you get bored, you can move on to SlashEm ;) 
Related resources
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 6:41:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, Wolfram wrote:

> and eat one. Next up is poison resistance, so I eat every poisoned
> creature I find, going down to 9 in strength, and have to stash my
> plate because I am constantly burdened. Finally I 'feel healthy', use
> my speed and Excalibur (+2) to kill a black unicorn and fix my strength
> issues with its horn.

Shriekers and spiders are usually best to do that since they provide
poison resistance without being poisonous. And unicorns too.

> decide to make it invisible with a !ofInvisbility to hopefully save it.
> This works. The orcs don't see the pet and I can make a roundabout to

IIRC, visibility has nothing to do with monster versus monster fight. I
think I've read that on Eva's page about pet handling or some other
spoiler.

> So now I am wondering what to do next. I know I need to get some
> armor, but the only mithril I have found is cursed, so I guess I'll use
> the plate, but it's quite heavy. Is it adviseable to start killing
> peacful dwarves in the mines to find mithril armor. I know my pet
> could handle it, but I have no idea how to make it visible again (still
> haven't found a blindfold/towel). If I get mithril, should I continue
> using the CoP or switch to the +2 CoDispl?

CoP provides MC3 which might become usefull in some situation (eg vampires
if you use Mojo). CoD is really nice for the displacement effect and
provide MC2 which is not bad. I guess both are valuable.

> Also, I need to bless my BoH and Unicorn Horn. I have lots of un-ID'd
> potions and 4 scrolls of identify, so I'm wondering if I should dilute
> some potions at random, or if I should try to price id and dip w/horn
> to find out what to keep. Usually I just dilute anything to get holy
> water, but aren't there some potions worth keeping, even if I don't get
> all the holy waters I want?
> What is the easiest way to find those valuable potions?

1/ price-id may be usefull.
2/ dip-id with unihorn (first with junk to sort out polymorph). This will
both sort out most dangerous potions and make water out of them, which
you'll want.
3/ You can drink-id almost everything else (if not cursed, of course) the
only remaining danger will be paralysis. If price-id has been done, don't
drink 300$ potions if not blessed.
4/ Double-check these informations against spoilers :-)

> And regarding my weapons. I have excalibur and mojo, plus one
> unremarkable longsword. Should I switch to mojo (since I am neutral I
> am a bit vary of the blasting effect), start two-weaponing excalibur
> and the vanilla longsword (might enchant it or try to luck out with
> offering and get something better) or just continue with excalibur and
> the +3 small shield (burnt)?

I guess both are valuable. I generally like a good Mojo because it just
does so much damage against not lightning resistant monsters. top-enchant
it and try to get silver saber for two-weaponing. Keep Exca for
level-draining monsters. Raise your skills in the weapons before
#twoweaponing. Be wise about when to use one or two weapon for killing or
training skills depending on your oponents.

> And how can I make my pet visible again?

I don't think you can (in slash'em, potion of see invisible will do the
trick). And I'm sure you don't need to. Since you'll want see invisible
anyway, it's much better to try and get it. Which should be fairly easy at
this point. Either try quaffing from fountains (risky, be sure to have a
blessed scroll of remove curse and drop all your non-combat gear before
doing so, you should be able to manage demons/snakes and then get back
your gear and uncurse if necessary [I've done this once with a pet
polymorphing into an invisible big thing]). Better way would be to make
holy water, bless your scrolls of ID and ID your potions (price iding
first might help to choose which one to id first). Then you should
probably either have potions of see invisible or be able to alchemise one.
Bless it and quaff it and you're done with that trouble.

> Any advice would be much appreciated. (Gotta love the variety in this
> game)

Yep, that's probably the very reason why we come back, again and again, to
it...

--
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

Adresse mail plus valide à partir de septembre 2005.
Utiliser l'adresse de redirection permanente :
Jean-Yves.Moyen `at` ens-lyon.org
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 8:08:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, Matt Frisch wrote:

> On 8 Sep 2005 03:34:07 -0700, "Wolfram" <johannm@gmail.com> scribed into
> the ether:
>
>
> >One dilemma is that while traversing the upper levels, I encounter a
> >room full of mordor orcs and an Eye. I don't have enough missile
> >weapons to deal with the eye, without taking a chance and throwing
> >Excalibur, so I back off down the corridor, displace my pet between me
> >and the eye, and my pet is frozen in it's gaze. Now the orcs start
> >pummeling it and I get worried about my large and experienced dog,
> >which I was going to use to loot some stores, so I think, and finally
> >decide to make it invisible with a !ofInvisbility to hopefully save it.
> > This works. The orcs don't see the pet and I can make a roundabout to
> >another entrance and kill them all. My pet wakes up, but now I keep
> >stumbling on it accidentally, so I leave it to go exploring down the
> >dungeon.
>
> If you leave the Eye alone, the Eye leaves you alone...mostly. They are
> very slow, and easy to avoid. You can pull nasties away from them, just be
> sure not to get caught down a dead-end tunnel with the Eye blocking it.

In which case you can almost safely hit it, without any risk of a grid bug
zapping you from behind (of course, there could always be some rock
mole/dwarf). Especially if you have enough food and hit hard enough to
both not starve during the time and kill it quite quickly.

--
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

Adresse mail plus valide à partir de septembre 2005.
Utiliser l'adresse de redirection permanente :
Jean-Yves.Moyen `at` ens-lyon.org
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 2:17:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:31:34 -0400, Marc Goodman
<marc.goodman@comcast.net> wrote:

>Wolfram wrote:
>
>> [...] My pet wakes up, but now I keep
>> stumbling on it accidentally, so I leave it to go exploring down the
>> dungeon.

Use the 'm' prefix to move without attacking. If "You hear
some noises in the distance" you know it's not next to you.

>
>Don't leave it by itself too long, or it will go feral. Then, you'll
>have an invisible large dog running around, which is probably not a
>good thing at this point.
>

But (relatively) easily re-tamed.

Still, a tricky situation that's best handled by not having it
come up in the first place. Especially since invisibility
doesn't help a pet at all. :-)

And monsters won't directly attack a sleeping/frozen/paralyzed
pet. At worst a sleeping pet will get hit with ranged attacks
meant for you.

>> So now I am wondering what to do next. I know I need to get some
>> armor, but the only mithril I have found is cursed, so I guess I'll use
>> the plate, but it's quite heavy. Is it adviseable to start killing
>> peacful dwarves in the mines to find mithril armor.
>
>You suffer a small alignment penalty for killing peaceful monsters,
>but you generally make that up easily with all the hostiles you kill.
>Mostly, be very careful trying to convert altars if you do this, unless
>you're sure you're positively aligned.

Use the 'm', 's' strategy to get your pet into the mines. Then
let it clean up monsters for you. If it gets killed, are you
worse off?

>
>> I know my pet
>> could handle it, but I have no idea how to make it visible again (still
>> haven't found a blindfold/towel).
>
>Your best bet is to get the see invisible intrinsic, then your problem
>is solved. Quaffing a blessed potion of see invisible is one way. Your
>deity will sometimes grant you this when you pray. There's also a chance
>of getting it when quaffing from a fountain, but that's risky and I avoid
>that. You can also get the intrinsic from eating certain corpses, like
>invisible stalkers. Mixing !oFruit Juice with !oGain Energy/Gain Level
>gives you !oSee Invisible.

Pretty good advice, the trick is getting and identifying the
potion of see invisible. Getting crowned by your god also
gives the see invisible intrinsic.

Since apparently the OP has telepathy, any method of blinding
could be helpful: Potion of blindness, applying an expensive
camera at oneself, cream pies (rob a store in Minetown ;-)
Let a yellow light or raven do it. (The raven will even do so
repeatedly, and seems oddly appropriate for a Valkyrie.)

Potion of monster detection. The spell of monster detection
probably isn't suitable for a Valk.


You could use the 's' command to find when your pet is next to
you. (This will also exercise your wisdom whenever you find your
pet.) In the mines, use a combination of 's', 'm' and "You hear
some noises in the distance" to know where/when it's safe to
move.

Tame another pet and stash this one somewhere out of the way:
locked/closed-door room, sokoban, etc.

>
>> If I get mithril, should I continue
>> using the CoP or switch to the +2 CoDispl?
>
>Mithril is magic cancellation ###, and a +2 [oDisp is the same AC as
>a +0 [oProt, so there's no reason not to switch. But, remember that
>[oDisp is only magic cancellation ##, so if you switch body armor to
>something that isn't ###, you should switch back to your [oProt.


Good advice. And move every time a monster hits you when
you're displaced so you they have to start looking for you all
over again.

>
>> Also, I need to bless my BoH and Unicorn Horn. I have lots of un-ID'd
>> potions and 4 scrolls of identify, so I'm wondering if I should dilute
>> some potions at random, or if I should try to price id and dip w/horn
>> to find out what to keep.
>
>Generally, if you dip w/horn and it clears, it wasn't that useful anyway.
>Some potions that will change might have been slightly useful for alchemy,
>but nothing really good (booze+enlightenment goes to confusion,
>confusion+gain energy/gain level has 1/3 chance of going to enlightenment,
>and enlightenment+levitation has 2/3 chance of going to gain level).
>Your !oConfusion will clear to water if you unidip it, and your !oBooze
>will clear to fruit juice if you unidip it.


Unihorns don't affect potions of booze. A certain gem does.
It's another potion that unihorns turn to fruit juice. (This
confused me for a long time.)

Potion of see invisible is $50. It's not a deli potion
and a unihorn doesn't affect it.


!Poly is $200, unidip everything else.


Two of the $100 potions clear to water, and one of the $50
deli potions clears to fruit juice when a unihorn is dipped
into them.

One of the $150 potions clears to water when dipped into
with a unihorn.

Un-name (" ") potions before dipping so you automatically get a
chance to name the potion if it changes.

Add "Unihorn no effect" to the names potions that don't change
when a unicorn horn is dipped into them.


>
>A few issues: if it's a potion of polymorph, you'll lose your horn, so you
>might want to dip something else first that you don't mind losing. Also,
>some of your potions will clear to fruit juice instead of water, so you
>can use one of them to make !oSee Invisible if you don't already have it,
>and #dip the rest to clear them.

Dipping an unpoisoned dart/arrow first will ID the potion that
a unihorn turns to fruit juice. Better yet, use a stack of
darts and get more benefit out of it. (It will also use up the
potion.) It will also ID a poly potion without risking the
unihorn.

>
>> Usually I just dilute anything to get holy
>> water, but aren't there some potions worth keeping, even if I don't get
>> all the holy waters I want?
>> What is the easiest way to find those valuable potions?
>
>There are a bunch of good potions. I thing the unidip trick is safe,
>but I'd keep the rest safe until they are IDed. You wouldn't want to
>waste your gain abilities, full healings, and so on, would you?

Monsters id some of the valuable potions by quaffing them when
in trouble. Naming potions un-individually with their
description, price, and unihorn effect helps sort them.

Nymphs can help id one of the less useful potions.

All of the $50 potions, except "see invisible" in your case,
can probably be safely diluted to water.

Ditto for potions monsters throw at you. (There is one fairly
big exception here, but price identifying helps.)

For extensive spoiling see the various(?) object identification
spoilers.


>
>> And regarding my weapons. I have excalibur and mojo, plus one
>> unremarkable longsword. Should I switch to mojo (since I am neutral I
>> am a bit vary of the blasting effect), start two-weaponing excalibur
>> and the vanilla longsword (might enchant it or try to luck out with
>> offering and get something better) or just continue with excalibur and
>> the +3 small shield (burnt)?
>
>This is a "taste" thing, but I'd say at your current level, reduced AC
>is very important, and since you're not a spell caster, I'd stick with the
>+3 small shield.

The small shield is the only spell-friendly shield. My wizards
love finding Valkyrie bones.

It also means that the Valkyrie's starting shield isn't
ascension worthy for the Valk (since other shields have higher
base AC), so the +3 enchantment is a waste in the medium/long
run. (It might be poly worthy, as a clever poster suggested
recently.)

And it means a Valk can't improve AC with just any old shield.
Even a shield of reflection, unenchanted, has two less points of
AC.

It is a nicely cruel starting piece of equipment for a
Valkyrie.


>Mojo and Excalibur are both good weapons. Personally,
>I'd probably stick with Excalibur because of the searching and level drain
>resist, but you can't go wrong with either.

Hmm, the auto-searching of Excalibur should show the pet every
time it's adjacent.

Isn't it possible to wield Excalibur and quiver Mojo for
throwing? Nothing I know of has to be wielded to be thrown.
Is Mojo an exception?



--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 2:18:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 8 Sep 2005 03:34:07 -0700, "Wolfram" <johannm@gmail.com>
wrote:

>One dilemma is that while traversing the upper levels, I encounter a
>room full of mordor orcs and an Eye. I don't have enough missile
>weapons to deal with the eye, without taking a chance and throwing
>Excalibur,

When you see a floating eye, rock its world.



--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 5:21:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jean-Yves.Moyen@ens-lyon.org wrote:

> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, Wolfram wrote:
>
> > and eat one. Next up is poison resistance, so I eat every poisoned
> > creature I find, going down to 9 in strength, and have to stash my
> > plate because I am constantly burdened. Finally I 'feel healthy', use
> > my speed and Excalibur (+2) to kill a black unicorn and fix my strength
> > issues with its horn.
>
> Shriekers and spiders are usually best to do that since they provide
> poison resistance without being poisonous. And unicorns too.

Only cave spiders, though. Giant spiders _are_ poisonous.

Richard
!