Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Question about passage of time in Nethack

Last response: in Video Games
Share
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 4:12:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Ever since I first started playing Nethack I've wondered about
something. When you've already been to a level, and then you go to
another level, do all the monsters on that level just sort of 'freeze
in time' until you return to it? I know that pets can go wild or starve
if left too long, but say a gnome steps on a polymorph trap and turns
into a dragon. Will his polymorph expire if I go play a couple thousand
turns elsewhere?

I'm not that programming-savvy so I don't know the right way to
technically word it, but the question boils down to whether the passage
of turns is the same on all levels you've visited as it is in the level
you're currently on.

Thanks in advance.
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 4:45:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Raisse the Thaumaturge wrote:
> Stimp Mast wrote:
> > I'm not that programming-savvy so I don't know the right way to
> > technically word it, but the question boils down to whether the passage
> > of turns is the same on all levels you've visited as it is in the level
> > you're currently on.
>
> I think, but I'm a source wader at best, that time doesn't pass *until you
> come back to the level*-- that is, only then corpse rotting and
> abandoned-pet behaviour is calculated.

In Slashem, there are a few other things that might happen, I believe.
Monsters and items might de-polymorph (something does that vanilla
doesn't) and fungi can grow on old corpses.
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 1:29:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Stimp Mast wrote:
> Ever since I first started playing Nethack I've wondered about
> something. When you've already been to a level, and then you go to
> another level, do all the monsters on that level just sort of 'freeze
> in time' until you return to it? I know that pets can go wild or starve
> if left too long, but say a gnome steps on a polymorph trap and turns
> into a dragon. Will his polymorph expire if I go play a couple thousand
> turns elsewhere?

Monsters polymorph permanently. Gnomes do not return to gnomish form the way the
player character does.
But in theory you are right: If you leave the level it "freezes". When you later
return to it the time is "caught up", ie all the turns you made are played out
without you so that it looks as if time passed. That's the technical stuff.

For the player, time on that level simply continues. Corpses rot away, monsters
move and so on.


HTH,
Benjamin
--
____ _ _ ____ _ _ _ _____ __ __
/ ___|| | / \ / ___|| | | ( ) ____| \/ |
\___ \| | / _ \ \___ \| |_| |/| _| | |\/| |
___) | |___ / ___ \ ___) | _ | | |___| | | |
|____/|_____/_/ \_\____/|_| |_| |_____|_| |_|
play online: telnet://slashem.crash-override.net
view scores: http://slashem.crash-override.net
watch deaths: irc://irc.freenode.net#slashem
Related resources
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 1:35:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Stimp Mast wrote:

> Ever since I first started playing Nethack I've wondered about
> something. When you've already been to a level, and then you go to
> another level, do all the monsters on that level just sort of 'freeze
> in time' until you return to it?

I think so. Corpses rot, though.

> I know that pets can go wild or starve
> if left too long,

That, too.

> but say a gnome steps on a polymorph trap and turns
> into a dragon. Will his polymorph expire if I go play a couple thousand
> turns elsewhere?

No, only your polymorph ever expires, a monster that polymorphs stays that
way (unless it's a shape-changer to begin with).

> I'm not that programming-savvy so I don't know the right way to
> technically word it, but the question boils down to whether the passage
> of turns is the same on all levels you've visited as it is in the level
> you're currently on.

I think, but I'm a source wader at best, that time doesn't pass *until you
come back to the level*-- that is, only then corpse rotting and
abandoned-pet behaviour is calculated.

Raisse, killed by a kitten called Poes

--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 2:02:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote:
> Raisse the Thaumaturge wrote:
>>I think, but I'm a source wader at best, that time doesn't pass *until you
>>come back to the level*-- that is, only then corpse rotting and
>>abandoned-pet behaviour is calculated.
> In Slashem, there are a few other things that might happen, I believe.
> Monsters and items might de-polymorph (something does that vanilla
> doesn't) and fungi can grow on old corpses.

Additionally, trees can grow, too.

Greetings,
Benjamin

--
Play Nethack anywhere with an x86 computer:
http://www.crash-override.net/nethacklinux.html
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 2:20:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Stimp Mast wrote:

> Ever since I first started playing Nethack I've wondered about
> something. When you've already been to a level, and then you go to
> another level, do all the monsters on that level just sort of 'freeze
> in time' until you return to it?

In addition to the other answers, note that monsters also can heal (1
point per 20 turns) and recover from some troubles (trapping, confusion,
stunning), as well as finish/recover from time-bounded
activities/troubles.

--
Philipp Lucas
phlucas@online-club.de
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 7:12:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Impressive ideas. I completely agree that it's a little unrealistic to
be able to leave your stash in the open and not worry about it. I'm not
so sure about new monster creation though ; as someone else said, it
would practically require any character to be an extinctionist with
enough turns. To some extent it'd be cool, but it would need some
tweaking for sure.

And, while I'm posting. I had no idea trees grew in SlashEM, though
I've played characters for 10-20k turns. How exactly do they grow, and
how long do they take?
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 9:45:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 9/9/05 3:29 AM, Benjamin Schieder wrote:

> If you leave the level it "freezes". When you later return to it the
> time is "caught up", ie all the turns you made are played out without
> you so that it looks as if time passed. That's the technical stuff.

For vanilla at least, I believe that that statement is misleading if not
actually false. The turns are not "played out." Things like corpses that
have a timestamp are checked to see if they should have rotted away by
now, and if they should have, they are removed from the level; other
than that, I believe nothing happens.

> For the player, time on that level simply continues. Corpses rot away, monsters
> move and so on.

It was my understanding that monsters *didn't* move. Although I think
they should.

--
Kevin Wayne

"We'll never survive."
"Nonsense. You're only saying that because no one ever has."
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 9:45:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 9/9/05 3:35 AM, Raisse the Thaumaturge wrote:
> Stimp Mast wrote:
>>I'm not that programming-savvy so I don't know the right way to
>>technically word it, but the question boils down to whether the passage
>>of turns is the same on all levels you've visited as it is in the level
>>you're currently on.
>
> I think, but I'm a source wader at best, that time doesn't pass *until you
> come back to the level*-- that is, only then corpse rotting and
> abandoned-pet behaviour is calculated.

That's my impression as well. Which makes sense; it would be too
resource intensive to have the program constantly calculating everything
that happens on 50 levels.

However, I do think that more should be made to *appear* to happen when
reentering a level that was previously visited.

Basically, each level should have a timestamp, so that the interval
between leaving and reentering can be calculated. Based on that
interval, the following things should occur:

1) Existing monsters should be moved around randomly, in a radius from
their former positions directly proportional to the interval of time.
Short interval, they will be near their former positions. Very long
interval, they could be anywhere on the level.

2) New monsters should be created, as though the player had remained on
the level. (May need a cap on this, though, so you don't get a
jam-packed dlvl 1 on the ascension run.)

3) Items on the floor should have a percentage chance (increasing with
time interval) of being moved around or ending up in a monster's
inventory. Weight and value could affect this chance. No more leaving a
pile of treasure next to the stairs, secure in the knowledge that
"Nothing happens when you're not on the level."

4) Containers should have a smaller, but similarly increasing, chance of
being looted--i.e., items missing and put into a monster's inventory.
This chance would be affected by whether the container was locked, on an
engraving of "Elbereth," or under a boulder. (A looted locked container
would have its lock broken.) Ditto with items in closets; a container
within a closet would have the chances multiplied (e.g., 5% * 5% =
0.25%) Stashes would no longer be perfectly safe, although care to keep
them safe would minimize chances of being disturbed.

Just to add a touch more realism/uncertaintly to the game.

--
Kevin Wayne

"Have fun stormin' the Castle."
--Miracle Max
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 10:08:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Benjamin Schieder <blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net> wrote:
> dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote:
>> Raisse the Thaumaturge wrote:
>>>I think, but I'm a source wader at best, that time doesn't pass *until you
>>>come back to the level*-- that is, only then corpse rotting and
>>>abandoned-pet behaviour is calculated.
>> In Slashem, there are a few other things that might happen, I believe.
>> Monsters and items might de-polymorph (something does that vanilla
>> doesn't) and fungi can grow on old corpses.
>
> Additionally, trees can grow, too.

There's other things that happen too: some herbs grow on the ground,
water currents move objects, and trees drop fruit.
All of this depends whether you compiled slash'em with DUNGEON_GROWTH
or not. (it's on by default.)

--
Pasi Kallinen
paxed@alt.org
http://bilious.homelinux.org/ -- NetHack Patch Database
Anonymous
September 9, 2005 11:53:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 17:45:17 GMT, Kevin Wayne
<killedbyafoo@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 9/9/05 3:35 AM, Raisse the Thaumaturge wrote:
>> Stimp Mast wrote:
>>>I'm not that programming-savvy so I don't know the right way to
>>>technically word it, but the question boils down to whether the passage
>>>of turns is the same on all levels you've visited as it is in the level
>>>you're currently on.
>>
>> I think, but I'm a source wader at best, that time doesn't pass *until you
>> come back to the level*-- that is, only then corpse rotting and
>> abandoned-pet behaviour is calculated.
>
>That's my impression as well. Which makes sense; it would be too
>resource intensive to have the program constantly calculating everything
>that happens on 50 levels.
>
>However, I do think that more should be made to *appear* to happen when
>reentering a level that was previously visited.
>
>Basically, each level should have a timestamp, so that the interval
>between leaving and reentering can be calculated. Based on that
>interval, the following things should occur:
>
>1) Existing monsters should be moved around randomly, in a radius from
>their former positions directly proportional to the interval of time.
>Short interval, they will be near their former positions. Very long
>interval, they could be anywhere on the level.

If it gets that crowd away from the bones pile by the upstairs,
I'm for it. ;-)

>
>2) New monsters should be created, as though the player had remained on
>the level. (May need a cap on this, though, so you don't get a
>jam-packed dlvl 1 on the ascension run.)

One good altar camp and the whole dungeon would be packed.
It would greatly simplify extinctionism.

>
>3) Items on the floor should have a percentage chance (increasing with
>time interval) of being moved around or ending up in a monster's
>inventory. Weight and value could affect this chance. No more leaving a
>pile of treasure next to the stairs, secure in the knowledge that
>"Nothing happens when you're not on the level."

You swine. (;^)

>
>4) Containers should have a smaller, but similarly increasing, chance of
>being looted--i.e., items missing and put into a monster's inventory.
>This chance would be affected by whether the container was locked, on an
>engraving of "Elbereth," or under a boulder. (A looted locked container
>would have its lock broken.) Ditto with items in closets; a container
>within a closet would have the chances multiplied (e.g., 5% * 5% =
>0.25%) Stashes would no longer be perfectly safe, although care to keep
>them safe would minimize chances of being disturbed.


That's it. Call in the Narn Bat Squad on Kevin's location. ;^D

>
>Just to add a touch more realism/uncertaintly to the game.

Obviously a secret member of the DevTeam.




All the best,

Jove

--
"I don't think you actually meant to condemn such practices,
which are probably those of any professional user. But the words
you used did." - "kanze" <kanze@gabi-soft.fr>
Anonymous
September 10, 2005 1:31:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 17:45:17 GMT
Kevin Wayne <killedbyafoo@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 9/9/05 3:35 AM, Raisse the Thaumaturge wrote:
> > Stimp Mast wrote:
> >>I'm not that programming-savvy so I don't know the right way to
....
>
> Just to add a touch more realism/uncertaintly to the game.
>

That's the point - make it more unpredictable. I would also suggest that
some monster classes (orcs, elves, dwarves...) would be able to follow you
over the stairs. Simple choose one of the monsters in a certain range (i.e.
5 steps from the stair) and let them appear on the new level at the stair
(if not blocked).

Reminds to a somewhat related feature: lock the position of the levels so
that if you step into the same hole twice, you will always land at
the same point in the new level. Would make it more logical, but might affect
the rogues quest.

Now you source gurus, what are you waiting for? :-)

HPH
--
!