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Good role/race combo to start with?

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Anonymous
September 10, 2005 6:32:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Hello, all,
Are there any role/race combinations that work better than others,
especially for someone starting out? I've done a lot of Dwarven
archaeologists, and done fairly well with them, compared to my other
characters, that is. I've never managed to get much past the gnomish
mines though.
Also, I have *never* managed to defeat a mimic. Is there some
special equipment or something needed to accomplish this?

Thanks,
Terrence

Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
ICC: terrencevane
Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 2:40:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <Pine.LNX.4.62.0509101419350.1370@Knoppix>,
<terrencev@softhome.net> says...
> Hello, all,
> Are there any role/race combinations that work better than others,
> especially for someone starting out? I've done a lot of Dwarven
> archaeologists, and done fairly well with them, compared to my other
> characters, that is. I've never managed to get much past the gnomish
> mines though.

Elven rangers are an obvious one. They get (yet) another multi shot bonus
for elven arrows + elven bow.

Elven wizards are another, for the higher max int.

> Also, I have *never* managed to defeat a mimic. Is there some
> special equipment or something needed to accomplish this?

They are easily avoided if you aren't strong in melee. They can be found by
"s"earching. Ranged weapons work very well - throw rocks at them.
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 2:57:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
> Hello, all,
> Are there any role/race combinations that work better than others,
> especially for someone starting out? I've done a lot of Dwarven
> archaeologists, and done fairly well with them, compared to my other
> characters, that is. I've never managed to get much past the gnomish
> mines though.

Valkyries are widely considered to be the easiest class, and
they're pretty straightforward to play... "VALK SMASH!" works remarkably
well. Barbarians are pretty easy, too... and they start with poison
resistance, which helps with the "I keep starving to death!" problem
that a lot of newbies have.

> Also, I have *never* managed to defeat a mimic. Is there some
> special equipment or something needed to accomplish this?

Mimics hit like trucks, but they're *slow*... they can't hit you
unless you stand there and let them do it. Whack them once, then back up
and wait for them to chase you. Rinse, repeat. They'll use all their
actions moving to follow you, and will never get to attack you.

There's a risk that you'll get the timing wrong and they'll grab
you immediately after your first attack, before you can move away, but
if they don't, it's perfectly safe. You can eliminate even that risk by
making the first attack from out of range with missile weapons (rocks
are handy here... if you're inside a shop, as is usual for mimics, the
shopkeeper will assume ownership of anything you throw, and rocks are no
great loss) or polearms. Or spells or wands, but be careful of any
merchandise in the line of fire.

--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
Related resources
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Anonymous
September 11, 2005 2:57:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Thanks, Andrew, John, & Jove for your pointers. I am currently in
the midst of doing an elven ranger, and will give barbarians & valkyries a
go as well. And I'll have to try those ideas for mimic-handling.
I have one other question though. If my overall screen has 50
lines, is there a way to make Nethack use tahe bottom of the screen
instead of the top?

Thanks again,
Terrence

Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
ICC: terrencevane
Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 5:44:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:57:46 GMT, John Campbell
<jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com> wrote:

>terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
>> Hello, all,
>> Are there any role/race combinations that work better than others,
>> especially for someone starting out? I've done a lot of Dwarven
>> archaeologists, and done fairly well with them, compared to my other
>> characters, that is. I've never managed to get much past the gnomish
>> mines though.
>
> Valkyries are widely considered to be the easiest class, and
>they're pretty straightforward to play... "VALK SMASH!" works remarkably
>well.

What John said. Dwarven Valkyries have good starting/max
strength in a class that's mostly about strength.

>Barbarians are pretty easy, too... and they start with poison
>resistance, which helps with the "I keep starving to death!" problem
>that a lot of newbies have.


>
>> Also, I have *never* managed to defeat a mimic. Is there some
>> special equipment or something needed to accomplish this?
>
> Mimics hit like trucks, but they're *slow*... they can't hit you
>unless you stand there and let them do it. Whack them once, then back up
>and wait for them to chase you. Rinse, repeat. They'll use all their
>actions moving to follow you, and will never get to attack you.
>
> There's a risk that you'll get the timing wrong and they'll grab
>you immediately after your first attack, before you can move away, but
>if they don't, it's perfectly safe. You can eliminate even that risk by
>making the first attack from out of range with missile weapons (rocks
>are handy here... if you're inside a shop, as is usual for mimics, the
>shopkeeper will assume ownership of anything you throw, and rocks are no
>great loss) or polearms. Or spells or wands, but be careful of any
>merchandise in the line of fire.


Looks like Terrence needs to learn to appreciate "The joys of
bravely running away." ;^)

You don't have to kill everything. Learn how to tell if a
monster is peaceful. If it is, leave it alone!

Very slow hostile monsters can be maneuvered past.

Learn how to hit without being hit back. (It doesn't get
much better than that. :-)

Ranged attacks are one of the best ways to do this. Throwing
rocks is probably the first ranged attack you'll have the chance
to get.

Hostile monsters can sometimes be made peaceful, or even
friendly.


Your main goal in the dungeon isn't to kill everything.
(Players have won without killing *anything*.) or get all the
gold you can, or get all the items you can.

Your main goal is to *survive*. Dead characters rarely
accomplish much.


Learn from watching how monsters behave. What do they
do when they're in trouble?


Some items are more useful in an emergency than others.
Monsters know which ones these are and you can learn them
by watching monsters use them.


You'll find stuff in the dungeons. It's use it or lose it.
That doesn't mean take foolish risks, but if you're in trouble
anyway, die on a heap of burned out wands, scroll fragments and
empty potion bottles, cursing your god for not helping more.





I play early characters as armor testers. Find the best
armor combination that's not too heavy.

Does that seem vague? Good, because it is. The best armor
combination varies from character to character, from situation
to situation, and even from moment to moment.

In general the single most important characterstic of good
armor is that you can take it off when you want, hopefully
for better armor.

The next most important characteristic of armor is that it
NOT slow you down. If you're burdened you're carrying too
much weight. Drop something less important than armor if
you can.





You can't take cursed armor off. So don't put it on. :-D
Since altars are few and far between and you want the armor *now*
what you need is some kind of portable altar.



Your pet can help. But remember, while your pet can help
*keep* you out of trouble, it will rarely *get* you out of
trouble.

Your pet also gets tougher with more kills. They have a limit
on size & strength, but get plenty tough before that happens.

Pets also make good portable obstacles. Run around your pet
keeping it between you and the bad guy. Your pet will contribute
by snapping at the monster circling it.


Read the guidebook again.



All the best,

Jove

--
"I don't think you actually meant to condemn such practices,
which are probably those of any professional user. But the words
you used did." - "kanze" <kanze@gabi-soft.fr>
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 5:44:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jove wrote:
> What John said. Dwarven Valkyries have good starting/max
> strength in a class that's mostly about strength.

According to stat-343.txt, starting stats are not based at all on race,
except that they cannot exceed racial maximums; this is commonly only seen
with Orcish Wizards, who have Int limited to 16.


--
"Ruleless 'law' will be a political weapon and control of the
judiciary will therefore be a political prize. 'Democracy' will
consist of the chaotic struggle to influence decision makers who are
not responsive to elections." -- Robert Bork
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 12:25:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

terrencev@softhome.net wrote:

>I've done a lot of Dwarven
>archaeologists,
> Also, I have *never* managed to defeat a mimic. Is there some
>special equipment or something needed to accomplish this?

A bullwhip does no damage to monster which thick hide.
--
Philipp Lucas
phlucas@online-club.de
Anonymous
September 11, 2005 11:29:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <Pine.LNX.4.62.0509101851570.2734@Knoppix>,
<terrencev@softhome.net> says...
> Thanks, Andrew, John, & Jove for your pointers. I am currently in
> the midst of doing an elven ranger, and will give barbarians & valkyries a
> go as well. And I'll have to try those ideas for mimic-handling.

Hmm, I think I may have misunderstood your question :) 

Rangers and elves do go together well, i.e. a Ranger is best off as an elf,
but rangers are still considered more difficult to play in the early game
than some others as they have poor starting stats.

The standard answers for "easiest class" are valkyrie, barbarian, samurai.
Wizards are difficult to keep alive in the early game, but become extremely
powerful late game in the hands of an experienced player.

> I have one other question though. If my overall screen has 50
> lines, is there a way to make Nethack use tahe bottom of the screen
> instead of the top?

I had to check the subject to see that you're using tty.

I don't know the answer to your question though.
September 12, 2005 12:52:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

terrencev@softhome.net wrote:

> Hello, all,
> Are there any role/race combinations that work better than others,
> especially for someone starting out? I've done a lot of Dwarven
> archaeologists, and done fairly well with them, compared to my other
> characters, that is. I've never managed to get much past the gnomish
> mines though.
> Also, I have *never* managed to defeat a mimic. Is there some
> special equipment or something needed to accomplish this?
>
> Thanks,
> Terrence
>
> Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
> ICC: terrencevane
> Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
> ( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )

If you're just starting out, I would suggest playing something very
simple and straightforward like orcish barbarian (intrinsic infravision,
poison resistance, *and* speed). Then after you learn more about the
game, you can switch to the really fun classes like wizards.
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 2:05:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Neutral human tourist. You'll be able to get expert in dagger, and
two-weapon magicbane and a +7 silve sabre ! Or Grayswandir and a silver
sabre. The starting equipment looks feeble, but the expensive camera is
surprisingly effective . And your special spell, charm monster has a
double bonus: it gets you out of nearly foe troubles and at the same
time gives you a co-worker usually. The PYEC blessed charging is a HOOT
! I've not tried to ascend any character yet, being a rlative newbie
myself, but of the characters I have running the Tourist is a strong
contender. Once you do Sokoban then the Mines you will be set up for a
BLAST !
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 2:05:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 22:05:09 +0100, Tom Goodman
<tovmas@hotmail.com> wrote:

<Some reformatting done to make the advantages more plain>

>Neutral human tourist.
>
> You'll be able to
> - get expert in dagger, and
> - two-weapon magicbane and a +7 silve sabre !
> - Or Grayswandir and a silver sabre.
>
>The starting equipment looks feeble, but the expensive camera is
>surprisingly effective .
>
>And your special spell, charm monster has a double bonus: it gets
>you out of nearly foe troubles and at the same time gives you a
>co-worker usually.
>
>The PYEC blessed charging is a HOOT!
>
> I've not tried to ascend any character yet, being a rlative newbie
>myself, but of the characters I have running the Tourist is a strong
>contender.
>
>Once you do Sokoban then the Mines you will be set up for a BLAST !

I'm a fan of tourists, Anhur knows. And your list of
advantages is accurate and does not overstate the case.

Just be aware that early tourists almost require mastery of
the techniques to properly use the starting equipment, which will
be very different from what you use later on.

But the starting equipment can be very effective, and fun, if
used properly.

And as Tom says, once you get rolling they're a blast.

And Tom's advice should maybe be given more weight than mine.
His current level of expertise probably being closer to the
original poster's.


(Note: Most classes have advantages that make them easy when
they're played correctly. It's just not always easy to quickly
learn to play them correctly. :-)

--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 2:42:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Rast <rast2@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Jove wrote:
> > What John said. Dwarven Valkyries have good starting/max
> > strength in a class that's mostly about strength.
>
> According to stat-343.txt, starting stats are not based at all on race,
> except that they cannot exceed racial maximums; this is commonly only seen
> with Orcish Wizards, who have Int limited to 16.

Well... that's the most extreme case. But it's also present, though less
noticable, with Human Wizards (who can't get above 18, and the average
Int of a wizard would otherwise be 19); Samurai, whose starting Con
averages 19.38 in theory; and maybe others I haven't looked at in
detail.

Richard
Anonymous
September 16, 2005 11:43:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

John Campbell <jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com> wrote:
> terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
>> Hello, all,
>> Are there any role/race combinations that work better than others,
>> especially for someone starting out? I've done a lot of Dwarven
>> archaeologists, and done fairly well with them, compared to my other
>> characters, that is. I've never managed to get much past the gnomish
>> mines though.
>
> Valkyries are widely considered to be the easiest class, and
> they're pretty straightforward to play... "VALK SMASH!" works remarkably
> well. Barbarians are pretty easy, too... and they start with poison
> resistance, which helps with the "I keep starving to death!" problem
> that a lot of newbies have.

I've gotten farthest with Valks and Elven Wizards. Barbarians are
moderately decent -- good at rolling over monsters. Not being able to
cast spells well (Valk and Barbarian), even *after* removing all armor,
is something of a hinderance. Wizards are nice for smashy smashy magic;
priests have BUC-id (nice!) but with experience it's not *that*
useful... or rather, with experience a player can get by without it
without *too* much trouble. Priest's BUC-id is convenient but not, in
the long run, really important.

Archeologists start with a pick and touchstone, both of which are damn
handy if you want to score lots of money in the early game. It seems
that dwarves and gnomes are usually pretty friendly (whether you're
dwarf or human); this makes the Mines way less of a hassle, at least
until after Minetown. Protection racket appears to be fairly feasible
with them -- healers start with more gold and sleep spell (makes it
easier for pets to kill monsters), Archeologists I find it more trouble
to not smack things. Archeologists can get lots of money early on,
though, so they do well with protection.

>> Also, I have *never* managed to defeat a mimic. Is there some
>> special equipment or something needed to accomplish this?
>
> Mimics hit like trucks, but they're *slow*... they can't hit you
> unless you stand there and let them do it. Whack them once, then back up
> and wait for them to chase you. Rinse, repeat. They'll use all their
> actions moving to follow you, and will never get to attack you.

I usually find I've got time to hit twice before backing up. Even with
a wizard without speed.

> There's a risk that you'll get the timing wrong and they'll grab
> you immediately after your first attack, before you can move away, but
> if they don't, it's perfectly safe. You can eliminate even that risk by
> making the first attack from out of range with missile weapons (rocks
> are handy here... if you're inside a shop, as is usual for mimics, the
> shopkeeper will assume ownership of anything you throw, and rocks are no
> great loss) or polearms. Or spells or wands, but be careful of any
> merchandise in the line of fire.

oh yeah, very important.

telepathy will reveal them, and I find that mimics in shops most often
show up as ']'. Not *always*, but most often.

Just remember to keep a clear path between you and the door, in case you
do find one.

|+-----|
| |
A |%()>*%| << if you *ever* see stairs in a store, it's a mimic
B |!?/??!|
C |(%([](| << the ']' is a mimic or a 'strange object', but I've only
|------| ever seen it be a mimic

123456

Something like this, for the initial look I might start at A1 and work
my way across, come back to B1 and go across, then C1 and go across. Or
A1 and work 'down', A2 and down, A3, A4, A5, A6.

In this case I've spotted two mimics (']' and '>' -- you never see real
stairs in a shop), but if there's a third one it might get *one* shot at
me before I can run away -- and it's clear back to the door, assuming
the shopkeeper and any pets stay out of the way.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Always code as if the guy who ends up
keith.davies@kjdavies.org maintaining your code is a psychopath
keith.davies@gmail.com who knows where you live."
http://www.kjdavies.org/ -- Damian Conway
!