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YASD: RNG notices when you are being stupid

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Anonymous
September 12, 2005 2:38:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

My Val-Hum-Fem-Neu was happily exploring DD after clearing Gnomish Mines
rather quickly and heading down again.
Took a look at #enhance .
Long Sword and Pick-axe maxxed out. Let's work on bare handed combat
next. So I decided to w-. Then in the next room (the first monster I met)
I began to bash away with my ungloved hands without even a first thought.
Instant petrification. Petrified by a chickatrice.

Remember, never play nethack when tired.
Sadly that's the only time I have to play the game.


Rami
--
C'est la nethack
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 2:38:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Rami Lehti wrote:
>
> My Val-Hum-Fem-Neu was happily exploring DD after clearing Gnomish Mines
> rather quickly and heading down again.
> Took a look at #enhance .
> Long Sword and Pick-axe maxxed out. Let's work on bare handed combat
> next.

Managing skill slots is an important part of the game.
There are far better skills to advance than bare handed
for a Valk. Western martial arts are weapon arts. For
any character class able to get to Expert in dagger,
#enhance-ing dagger is important. A Valk starts with
long sword and dagger and is able to #twoweapon. Move
up your skills in all 3 of those categories as early as
possible until they are maxxed. To enhance other skills
earlier than those 3 you should be able to explain why
you're putting off being able to throw 3 daggers in one
turn and #twoweapon as a killing machine face to face.

> Remember, never play nethack when tired.
> Sadly that's the only time I have to play the game.

Very true. It is a conundrum.
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 5:25:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 10:38:58 GMT, Rami Lehti <rammer@ipi.fi>
wrote:

<Please include your subject in your post as a courtesy
to your readers. You do want people to read your post, right?>

>YASD: RNG notices when you are being stupid

NO. The Real Nethack God is trying to kill you *all* *the*
*time*. Let your guard down and you'll die.

>
>My Val-Hum-Fem-Neu was happily exploring DD after clearing Gnomish Mines
>rather quickly and heading down again.
>Took a look at #enhance .
>Long Sword and Pick-axe maxxed out. Let's work on bare handed combat
>next. So I decided to w-. Then in the next room (the first monster I met)
>I began to bash away with my ungloved hands without even a first thought.


>Instant petrification. Petrified by a chickatrice.
>

Get into the habit of *always* using *ranged* attacks against
cockatrice corpses. (Even if you're standing next to them. :-)


Get into the habit of checking you're wearing gloves before
picking up cockatrice corpses.


Get into the habit of never wielding a cockatrice while moving.


Then get into the habit of always immediately picking up
cockatrice corpses and putting them into a container. Your bag
will do.


Or you may just have to blessed genocide 'c'. I don't know
that I recommend it, but for some players it's the only answer.
(As my water walking boots are for me.)


Habits/reflexes will either kill you or keep you alive in
Nethack, because *that's* how you'll play when tired, or
confused, or just plain not paying attention. (Your fingers will
kill you if you let them.)


>Remember, never play nethack when tired.

Fit to be inscribed on jade in letters of gold.


Since Nethack gleefully lets you kill yourself, you're
struggling against yourself as much as you are against
the game. Learn your own weaknesses and develop habits
that counter them.


That's why *I* wear water-walking boots when I have them.
(Because other boots make me walk into water. ;^)

"You fight like you train."

(It's lovely that Jens discussion of learning is applicable
to learning both inside and outside the game. :-)


>Sadly that's the only time I have to play the game.
>

Develop safer habits, or try explore mode.


Thanks for using your experience to provide a lesson to the
group. Especially at the risk of criticism/ridicule.



--
All the best,

Jove
Related resources
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 9:26:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <slrndiamm2.rle.rammer@ipi.fi>, Rami Lehti <rammer@ipi.fi>
says...
> Long Sword and Pick-axe maxxed out. Let's work on bare handed combat
> next.
>
It's not entirely clear here whether you understand how skill enhancement
works - so I'll tell you :) 

In order to advance a skill, you need:

a) Lots of successful hits with that weapon category. Available in
unlimited quantities.

b) Sufficient available "skill slots". Each increase in experience level
gives an extra slot. The maximum XP level is 30, so there are only 29 skill
slots a character can claim. Once gained, slots are spent when #enchancing
a skill - be it weapon, spell, riding. Be careful where you spend your
slots!

The further advanced a skill is, the more skill slots are required for
further enhancement - but, for melee weapons, the less the advantages of
doing so are. IMHO advancing a melee weapon to Expert is a bad investment
of slots, although being Skilled helps greatly in the early game.

For some weapon categories OTOH there are substantial advantages in
increasing skills as far as possible. These are:

# Multi throw ranged weapons (dagger, shuriken, dart, bow, crossbow,
sling). Max the skill most appropriate for your character - daggers for
Valks. Some classes may wish to max two (e.g. Samurai, bow and shuriken).

# Two weapon combat. Advance if available as far as possible, but there is
no point in being more skilled in Twoweapon than in the primary weapon.

# Lance and polearm. Specialist weapons, best used when riding, probably
not a good choice for beginners. Polearm cannot be advanced to Expert by
any class, and possibly shouldn't be anyway.

Maxing out spell schools is usually but not always a good idea afaics -
note that they cost less than weapon skills. Riding is specialist and I'm
not sure there's any point in being Expert. Bare handed combat is pointless
and a waste.
Anonymous
September 12, 2005 11:35:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jove wrote:

>Get into the habit of *always* using *ranged* attacks against
> cockatrice corpses.
>Get into the habit of checking you're wearing gloves before
> picking up cockatrice corpses.
>Get into the habit of never wielding a cockatrice while moving.
>... get into the habit of always immediately picking up
> cockatrice corpses and putting them into a container.
>

A little type A are we?
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 12:47:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I was hanging out with the cool kids in rec.games.roguelike.nethack when
Andrew Kerr got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:
[ choosing which skills to #enhance ]
> Bare handed combat is pointless and a waste.

....unless you're playing a Monk. Tourists also start with no (wielded)
weapon, so I tend to get them Skilled in it, too.

--
Glyn Kennington - remove caps from email address to reply
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 12:47:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1126554441.30073.0@doris.uk.clara.net>, Ugly Newt
<gkennington@claIrVOYaNT.coLD.DuCk> says...
> > Bare handed combat is pointless and a waste.
>
> ...unless you're playing a Monk.
>
Monks do Martial Arts, not Bare Handed.

;) 
September 13, 2005 5:40:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Ugly Newt <gkennington@claIrVOYaNT.coLD.DuCk> wrote in
news:1126554441.30073.0@doris.uk.clara.net:

> I was hanging out with the cool kids in rec.games.roguelike.nethack
> when Andrew Kerr got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:
> [ choosing which skills to #enhance ]
>> Bare handed combat is pointless and a waste.
>
> ...unless you're playing a Monk.

Martial arts != Bare-handed Combat.
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 11:02:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Ugly Newt wrote:
> Andrew Kerr wrote:
>
> > Monks do Martial Arts, not Bare Handed.
>
> Damn, I forgot that. Easy mistake to make, given that they're basically
> the same thing ;-)

Same thing to maybe half a digit's worth of accuracy.

MA includes kicking, BH does not. MA can be #enhance-d
all the way up to Grand Master (consuming a million
skill slots in the process), BH can not. MA can include
a resounding blow that pushes a monster back, BH can
not. Body armor interferes with MA not with BH.
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 11:33:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I was hanging out with the cool kids in rec.games.roguelike.nethack when
Andrew Kerr got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:
> In article <1126554441.30073.0@doris.uk.clara.net>, Ugly Newt
> <gkennington@claIrVOYaNT.coLD.DuCk> says...
> > > Bare handed combat is pointless and a waste.
> >
> > ...unless you're playing a Monk.
> >
> Monks do Martial Arts, not Bare Handed.
>
> ;) 

Damn, I forgot that. Easy mistake to make, given that they're basically
the same thing ;-)

--
Glyn Kennington - remove caps from email address to reply
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 9:14:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005, Ugly Newt wrote:

> I was hanging out with the cool kids in rec.games.roguelike.nethack when
> Andrew Kerr got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:
> [ choosing which skills to #enhance ]
> > Bare handed combat is pointless and a waste.
>
> ...unless you're playing a Monk.

In which case you'll probably want to improve "martial arts" rather than
"bare handed combat" :-)

> Tourists also start with no (wielded)
> weapon, so I tend to get them Skilled in it, too.

I tend to wait for the first goblin/kobold and train dagger instead... Of
course, pet buc-id is helpful.

--
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

Adresse mail plus valide à partir de septembre 2005.
Utiliser l'adresse de redirection permanente :
Jean-Yves.Moyen `at` ens-lyon.org
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 9:51:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:14:01 +0200, Jean-Yves.Moyen@ens-lyon.org
wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Sep 2005, Ugly Newt wrote:
>
>> I was hanging out with the cool kids in rec.games.roguelike.nethack when
>> Andrew Kerr got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:
>> [ choosing which skills to #enhance ]
>> > Bare handed combat is pointless and a waste.
>>
>> ...unless you're playing a Monk.
>
>In which case you'll probably want to improve "martial arts" rather than
>"bare handed combat" :-)
>
>> Tourists also start with no (wielded)
>> weapon, so I tend to get them Skilled in it, too.
>
>I tend to wait for the first goblin/kobold and train dagger instead... Of
>course, pet buc-id is helpful.

Well-stated, since un-buc determined daggers can be thrown with
no risk of them getting stuck to your hand(s).

And cursed daggers will occasionally slip when thrown, making
cursed id relatively easy and fairly safe without pet, altar
or being a priest.

It's only fairly safe because a dagger that slips when thrown
may hit a peaceful monster and turn it hostile. (Ask me how I
know that. ;^)




--
All the best,

Jove
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 11:31:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

I was hanging out with the cool kids in rec.games.roguelike.nethack when
Doug Freyburger got out a spraycan and scrawled the following:
> Ugly Newt wrote:
> > Andrew Kerr wrote:
> >
> > > Monks do Martial Arts, not Bare Handed.
> >
> > Damn, I forgot that. Easy mistake to make, given that they're basically
> > the same thing ;-)
>
> Same thing to maybe half a digit's worth of accuracy.

OK, so one's a subset of the other.

> MA includes kicking, BH does not. MA can be #enhance-d
> all the way up to Grand Master (consuming a million
> skill slots in the process), BH can not.

I'd considered MA was just "the Monk form of BH", and all those extra
benefits arise because they're incredibly good at it.

> MA can include
> a resounding blow that pushes a monster back, BH can
> not.

[Source dives]. BH can have that effect, actually. It's just a lot
more common with MA, because you can get so much more skilled at it.

> Body armor interferes with MA not with BH.

And that's another 'special case' for Monks. It also interferes with
their spellcasting, but it's still spellcasting.

--
Glyn Kennington - remove caps from email address to reply
Anonymous
September 13, 2005 11:31:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <1126636260.90718.0@doris.uk.clara.net>, Ugly Newt
<gkennington@claIrVOYaNT.coLD.DuCk> says...
> > MA includes kicking, BH does not. MA can be #enhance-d
> > all the way up to Grand Master (consuming a million
> > skill slots in the process), BH can not.
>
> I'd considered MA was just "the Monk form of BH", and all those extra
> benefits arise because they're incredibly good at it.
>
Samurai also do MA, and can get to Master.

Barb and caveman can get to Master in BH.
Anonymous
September 17, 2005 4:17:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:35:53 -0500, Gary Olson
<garyolson@pobox.NOSPAM.com> wrote:

>Jove wrote:
>
>>Get into the habit of *always* using *ranged* attacks against
>> cockatrice corpses.
>>Get into the habit of checking you're wearing gloves before
>> picking up cockatrice corpses.
>>Get into the habit of never wielding a cockatrice while moving.
>>... get into the habit of always immediately picking up
>> cockatrice corpses and putting them into a container.
>>
>
>A little type A are we?

No, but I play one in Nethack. ;^)






--
All the best,

Jove
!