Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (
More info?)
On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:00:01 +0000 (UTC), Seraphim
<gme6@cornell.edu> wrote:
>Jove <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in
>news:0h7bi1d9envn6pa14t6sjmvp32h8u34cf1@4ax.com:
>
>>>> - Just one item means can't build up AK bit by bit.
>>>
>>>That's OK. My valkyries quite like the look of my wizards' cloaks of
>>>magic resistance.
>>
>> That fine, my wizards quite like the look of valkyries +3 small
>> shields.
>>
>> Just one item, even a blessed (0:3) wand of wishing, won't help
>> that much. That's something else players need to learn.
>
>I disagree. I've found DSM makes a huge difference for my players. Even
>poor combat classes can survive being reckless if they have those 9+
>points of AC on their side.
You are quite correct, thanks. (I misstated my case. ;-)
Yes, it can make a huge difference, especially in the early
game. And even more so as the player (hopefully) displayed
some skill in the previous game to be able to pass it on to
the next game.
But starting DSM doesn't guarantee ascension, or anything like
it. (It might for a demi-god, but they probably wouldn't be
doing this anyway.) A reckless player will just get more
reckless to make up for it.
And it takes a *lot* of AC to make up for completely ignoring
Hp loss. (Ask me how I know. ;-) Ask anyone who's been frozen
by a floating eye.
And all players have the equivalent *now* with Elbereth. (Many
posters consider Elbereth too powerful. But I've died standing
on Magicbane engraved Elbereth before.) But there is no flood
of YAFAPs praising Elbereth.
Most (all?) non-ascended players that get DSM from an early
wish fail to ascend, unless their skills are just getting good
enough to take full advantage of it.
Watch some games on NAO. Players get items that I know could
keep them alive, but they just don't use them, or don't use them
properly. (I was surprised just recently in a thread started by
Ilmari Karonen. He knew his ring of levitation was diamond and
therefor that he could engrave with it. The ring, not a hard
gem. You don't see that much. He kept a mirror on hand for
nymphs, and a leash for his pet. Someone posted and recommended
he dump all three of those items.)
(Here's an idea for NAO. Have Marvin (or the equivalent) play
a short demonstration game, to be recorded, for each class. Then
add those game recordings to the list of games to watch, for the
entertainment/edification of viewers. Or just replay the last
ascension on NAO and have it on the list of games to watch.)
My point is that starting DSM isn't an insta-win, or even close
to it. And the player will have had to get it in the first
place, then give up everything else in that game, to start with
it in the next game.
It's highly likely they would have been better off continuing
the original game, unless they made ascension impossible in it.
Then passing on that one item to their next starting character
is a Pyrrhic victory. (A victory that is offset by staggering
losses.)
Yes, you are absolutely correct DSM is great. But for the vast
majority of non-ascendeds it wouldn't make the difference between
winning and losing. (Not to mention the average newbie.
(An advanced demi-god wouldn't even need the DSM.)
For many players the emphasis on this or that particular piece
of equipment as the key to the game is misplaced. I once found
Mjollnir and [GoP as a Valk on Dlvl 3. I never got off that
level. I was like a six year old with an Indy car.
So I've changed my advice for early characters to 1) stay alive
2) improve AC. (So we're really in furious agreement about the
value of AC points.
So let low/non skilled players choose to earn their own reward,
one commensurate with their deserts, while building their skills
and learning to survive.
--
All the best,
Jove