Opinion about Paladin behaviour

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Situation:

Our paladin (lev. 12!! ) is on a room threshold. Behind him in the adiacent
room there are his companions (cleric lev. 10, conjurer lev. 12 with a
medium earth elemental). In the room he sees a barbed devil and with a spot
check he finds a teleport circle too. Without hesitation he jumps into the
circle.
Is he worth to be called "paladin"??

Juza

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Juza wrote:

> Situation:
>
> Our paladin (lev. 12!! ) is on a room threshold. Behind him in the adiacent
> room there are his companions (cleric lev. 10, conjurer lev. 12 with a
> medium earth elemental). In the room he sees a barbed devil and with a spot
> check he finds a teleport circle too. Without hesitation he jumps into the
> circle.
> Is he worth to be called "paladin"??
>
> Juza
>
>

Paladins have a thing called "discretion." They are not required to
attack every evil thing like mindless energizer bunnies.


Two examples:

"You see an evil McGuffin."
"I kill it."

Compare this with.

"You see an Evil McGuffin."
"I track it back to its lair to determine if it is alone, with a group,
or under the control of a more powerful creature."

BOTH reactions are appropriate for a paladin.

Mind you, discretion can also lead to poor judgment, but that
foolishness, not a deviation from alignment.

CH

 

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In message <42417817$1_2@news.bluewin.ch>, Juza <none@?.?.invalid>
writes
>Situation:
>
>Our paladin (lev. 12!! ) is on a room threshold. Behind him in the adiacent
>room there are his companions (cleric lev. 10, conjurer lev. 12 with a
>medium earth elemental). In the room he sees a barbed devil and with a spot
>check he finds a teleport circle too. Without hesitation he jumps into the
>circle.
>Is he worth to be called "paladin"??

Maybe he was guessing that the teleport circle led to Hell?

--
Ian R Malcomson
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box"

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:08:01 +0100, "Juza" <none> wrote:

>Situation:
>
>Our paladin (lev. 12!! ) is on a room threshold. Behind him in the adiacent
>room there are his companions (cleric lev. 10, conjurer lev. 12 with a
>medium earth elemental). In the room he sees a barbed devil and with a spot
>check he finds a teleport circle too. Without hesitation he jumps into the
>circle.
>Is he worth to be called "paladin"??

Given that I assume he had in mind for his companions to follow him,
sure. The devil is presumably guarding the teleport circle. Getting
past it defeats it.

 

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"Juza" wrote
> Situation:
>
> Our paladin (lev. 12!! ) is on a room threshold. Behind him in the
adiacent
> room there are his companions (cleric lev. 10, conjurer lev. 12 with a
> medium earth elemental). In the room he sees a barbed devil and with a
spot
> check he finds a teleport circle too. Without hesitation he jumps into the
> circle.
> Is he worth to be called "paladin"??

Maybe not to smart of him, but not enough details to tell. Was he chasing
someone, or in a time crunch?

John

 

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"Juza" <none> wrote in news:42417817$1_2@news.bluewin.ch:

> Situation:
>
> Our paladin (lev. 12!! ) is on a room threshold. Behind him in
> the adiacent room there are his companions (cleric lev. 10,
> conjurer lev. 12 with a medium earth elemental). In the room he
> sees a barbed devil and with a spot check he finds a teleport
> circle too. Without hesitation he jumps into the circle.
> Is he worth to be called "paladin"??

Sounds reasonable. I might figure I want to be first to clear the way
for the others, or I might figure I want to be last to make sure the
others get through safely. Toss a coin.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Looks like it was a player screw up (action without thinking) The paladin
should have engaged the devil to allow the others time to escape (if the
paladin is LG)


Quentin Stephens wrote:
> "Juza" <none> wrote in news:42417817$1_2@news.bluewin.ch:
>
>
>>Situation:
>>
>>Our paladin (lev. 12!! ) is on a room threshold. Behind him in
>>the adiacent room there are his companions (cleric lev. 10,
>>conjurer lev. 12 with a medium earth elemental). In the room he
>>sees a barbed devil and with a spot check he finds a teleport
>>circle too. Without hesitation he jumps into the circle.
>>Is he worth to be called "paladin"??
>
>
> Sounds reasonable. I might figure I want to be first to clear the way
> for the others, or I might figure I want to be last to make sure the
> others get through safely. Toss a coin.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Juza" <none> wrote in news:42417817$1_2@news.bluewin.ch:
> Situation:

> Our paladin (lev. 12!! ) is on a room threshold. Behind him in
> the adiacent room there are his companions (cleric lev. 10,
> conjurer lev. 12 with a medium earth elemental). In the room he
> sees a barbed devil and with a spot check he finds a teleport
> circle too. Without hesitation he jumps into the circle.
> Is he worth to be called "paladin"??

What was the mission of the Paladin? What was the mission of the Party?
Did anyone suspect the Barbed Devil might be around? If so, was there
already a plan to deal with it? If not, can the Paladin reasonably
assume that the Mage, Cleric and ELemental can handle it? Can he
reasonably assume they'll follow him into the Teleport Cirlce? Did he
bother announcing that it was there (the teleporter)?

I could go on and on, but many of my questions stem from the answers to
those I've already asked.

Clearly not enough information here.
DWS

 

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"Rock-Viper" wrote
> Quentin Stephens wrote:
> > "Juza" wrote
> >>Situation:
> >>
> >>Our paladin (lev. 12!! ) is on a room threshold. Behind him in
> >>the adiacent room there are his companions (cleric lev. 10,
> >>conjurer lev. 12 with a medium earth elemental). In the room he
> >>sees a barbed devil and with a spot check he finds a teleport
> >>circle too. Without hesitation he jumps into the circle.
> >>Is he worth to be called "paladin"??
> >
> > Sounds reasonable. I might figure I want to be first to clear the way
> > for the others, or I might figure I want to be last to make sure the
> > others get through safely. Toss a coin.
>
> Looks like it was a player screw up (action without thinking) The paladin
> should have engaged the devil to allow the others time to escape (if the
> paladin is LG)

Maybe, but there really isn't enough information to tell. If it was just a
case if him not feeling like fighting the barbed devil then yeah, bad
Paladin. I don't see any problem if he was in a hurry for Paladin
appropriate reasons and figured the party could take the devil with out him.


John

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

So, it was an exeptional situation:

The group knew that on the other side of a wall there was another room. Not
finding the secret entrance they decided to make a hole in the wall. When
the job was done, in the other room there was initially an illusion of a
"frozen" mage holding a book. The paladin was the first to enter and
approaching the mage he became aware of the illusion. Suddendly appeard the
barbed devil who attacked the party (with unholy blight). In the next couple
of rounds the paladin attacked the devil and became aware of his
strenght/thoughtness (40 hp damage on the fly (our paladin has 55 HP max.
!)). Than our DM said: Mmm, I forgot to allow you a spot check. Make one.
The paladin and cleric passed it and than we knew of the teleport circle.
The DM decided to allow us a "rewind" until we broke through the wall
allowing us not to repeat the sames actions we did before. (all but the
paladin agreed to do the same...) Is at that point that our "paladin",
knowing what happened before (the barbed is not a coockie!!), that he
decided to jump into the teleport circle.

That was the situation.

> What was the mission of the Paladin? What was the mission of the Party?
> Did anyone suspect the Barbed Devil might be around? If so, was there
> already a plan to deal with it? If not, can the Paladin reasonably
> assume that the Mage, Cleric and ELemental can handle it? Can he
> reasonably assume they'll follow him into the Teleport Cirlce? Did he
> bother announcing that it was there (the teleporter)?
>
> I could go on and on, but many of my questions stem from the answers to
> those I've already asked.
>
> Clearly not enough information here.
> DWS

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Juza wrote:
> Situation:
>
> Our paladin (lev. 12!! ) is on a room threshold. Behind him in the
adiacent
> room there are his companions (cleric lev. 10, conjurer lev. 12 with
a
> medium earth elemental). In the room he sees a barbed devil and with
a spot
> check he finds a teleport circle too. Without hesitation he jumps
into the
> circle.
> Is he worth to be called "paladin"??


You could probably build a case for Chaotic behavior, but more likely
he just messed up.

So where did the the teleport circle take him?

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro

 

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Juza wrote:

> The DM decided to allow us a "rewind" until we broke through the wall
> allowing us not to repeat the sames actions we did before. (all but
the
> paladin agreed to do the same...) Is at that point that our
"paladin",
> knowing what happened before (the barbed is not a coockie!!), that he
> decided to jump into the teleport circle.

Ah, didn't see this before. He probably should have waited for his
buddies, but given the "rewind" circumstances, I don't see anything to
get excited about.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Rock-Viper wrote:
> Looks like it was a player screw up (action without thinking) The
paladin
> should have engaged the devil to allow the others time to escape (if
the
> paladin is LG)
>

You're making some assumptions on a situation which isn't fully
explained. What's the context of this? Why is the party there? What
lies behind the circle and does the paladin know? What's his motives?
Was it cowardice or was it that the circle is the only escape and he
figures he might as well go first to clear a path?

Just because he's a paladin doesn't mean he's stupid.

>
> Quentin Stephens wrote:
> > "Juza" <none> wrote in news:42417817$1_2@news.bluewin.ch:
> >
> >
> >>Situation:
> >>
> >>Our paladin (lev. 12!! ) is on a room threshold. Behind him in
> >>the adiacent room there are his companions (cleric lev. 10,
> >>conjurer lev. 12 with a medium earth elemental). In the room he
> >>sees a barbed devil and with a spot check he finds a teleport
> >>circle too. Without hesitation he jumps into the circle.
> >>Is he worth to be called "paladin"??
> >
> >
> > Sounds reasonable. I might figure I want to be first to clear the
way
> > for the others, or I might figure I want to be last to make sure
the
> > others get through safely. Toss a coin.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Juza wrote:
> So, it was an exeptional situation:
>
> The group knew that on the other side of a wall there was another
room. Not
> finding the secret entrance they decided to make a hole in the wall.
When
> the job was done, in the other room there was initially an illusion
of a
> "frozen" mage holding a book. The paladin was the first to enter and
> approaching the mage he became aware of the illusion. Suddendly
appeard the
> barbed devil who attacked the party (with unholy blight). In the next
couple
> of rounds the paladin attacked the devil and became aware of his
> strenght/thoughtness (40 hp damage on the fly (our paladin has 55 HP
max.
> !)). Than our DM said: Mmm, I forgot to allow you a spot check. Make
one.
> The paladin and cleric passed it and than we knew of the teleport
circle.
> The DM decided to allow us a "rewind" until we broke through the wall
> allowing us not to repeat the sames actions we did before. (all but
the
> paladin agreed to do the same...) Is at that point that our
"paladin",
> knowing what happened before (the barbed is not a coockie!!), that he
> decided to jump into the teleport circle.
>

Did the player explain what his character's motives were? Motive is
pretty important. If it was for cowardice, he made a bad choice and he
should atone. But if it was for what he felt was the greater good (the
teleport circle leads somewhere) he might have felt that jumping it
would cut off reinforcements who might pour through the circle. What's
the motive and what's the end results?

> That was the situation.
>
> > What was the mission of the Paladin? What was the mission of the
Party?
> > Did anyone suspect the Barbed Devil might be around? If so, was
there
> > already a plan to deal with it? If not, can the Paladin reasonably
> > assume that the Mage, Cleric and ELemental can handle it? Can he
> > reasonably assume they'll follow him into the Teleport Cirlce? Did
he
> > bother announcing that it was there (the teleporter)?
> >
> > I could go on and on, but many of my questions stem from the
answers to
> > those I've already asked.
> >
> > Clearly not enough information here.
> > DWS

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

HI

In <4242af89$1_2@news.bluewin.ch> (3/24/05 7:16 AM) Juza wrote:
> So, it was an exeptional situation:
>
>The paladin and cleric passed it and
> than we knew of the teleport circle. The DM decided to allow us a
> "rewind" until we broke through the wall allowing us not to repeat the
> sames actions we did before. (all but the paladin agreed to do the
> same...) Is at that point that our "paladin", knowing what happened
> before (the barbed is not a coockie!!), that he decided to jump into
> the teleport circle.
>
OK, so basically, we can treat the first run through as kind of
divinatory vision given to the Paladin. He knew that if he fought the
Barbed Devil, he would be hurt very badly in one attack, and possibly
killed thereafter.

So if that is a fair assessment, and his solution was to avoid death by
fleeing through the teleport, without first a) telling everyone else,
and b) trying to help them through first - then I would say he is guilty
of a Chaotic act, acting cowardly in a way that could bring harm or
death to others. He should at least be stripped of some powers until he
atones...

ROB

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Juza" <none> wrote in news:4242af89$1_2@news.bluewin.ch:

> So, it was an exeptional situation:
>
> The group knew that on the other side of a wall there was
> another room. Not finding the secret entrance they decided to
> make a hole in the wall. When the job was done, in the other
> room there was initially an illusion of a "frozen" mage holding
> a book. The paladin was the first to enter and approaching the
> mage he became aware of the illusion. Suddendly appeard the
> barbed devil who attacked the party (with unholy blight). In the
> next couple of rounds the paladin attacked the devil and became
> aware of his strenght/thoughtness (40 hp damage on the fly (our
> paladin has 55 HP max. !)). Than our DM said: Mmm, I forgot to
> allow you a spot check. Make one. The paladin and cleric passed
> it and than we knew of the teleport circle. The DM decided to
> allow us a "rewind" until we broke through the wall allowing us
> not to repeat the sames actions we did before. (all but the
> paladin agreed to do the same...) Is at that point that our
> "paladin", knowing what happened before (the barbed is not a
> coockie!!), that he decided to jump into the teleport circle.

This changes the situation entirely. As Rob said, treat the
earlier combat as a divine premonition. The paladin took an
entirely appropriate action. Being Good does not mean being
foolish, stupid, or suicidal.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 24 Mar 2005 21:52:35 GMT, Quentin Stephens <stq@stq.gro.ku.invalid>
wrote:

>"Juza" <none> wrote in news:4242af89$1_2@news.bluewin.ch:
>
>> So, it was an exeptional situation:
>>
>> The group knew that on the other side of a wall there was
>> another room. Not finding the secret entrance they decided to
>> make a hole in the wall. When the job was done, in the other
>> room there was initially an illusion of a "frozen" mage holding
>> a book. The paladin was the first to enter and approaching the
>> mage he became aware of the illusion. Suddendly appeard the
>> barbed devil who attacked the party (with unholy blight). In the
>> next couple of rounds the paladin attacked the devil and became
>> aware of his strenght/thoughtness (40 hp damage on the fly (our
>> paladin has 55 HP max. !)). Than our DM said: Mmm, I forgot to
>> allow you a spot check. Make one. The paladin and cleric passed
>> it and than we knew of the teleport circle. The DM decided to
>> allow us a "rewind" until we broke through the wall allowing us
>> not to repeat the sames actions we did before. (all but the
>> paladin agreed to do the same...) Is at that point that our
>> "paladin", knowing what happened before (the barbed is not a
>> coockie!!), that he decided to jump into the teleport circle.
>
>This changes the situation entirely. As Rob said, treat the
>earlier combat as a divine premonition. The paladin took an
>entirely appropriate action. Being Good does not mean being
>foolish, stupid, or suicidal.
>

Although really, it would help if he said "follow me!" just to
establish that he isn't trying to desert his confreres.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 24 Mar 2005 18:57:36 GMT, Rob Douglas <rob_douglas@mac.com> wrote:

>OK, so basically, we can treat the first run through as kind of
>divinatory vision given to the Paladin. He knew that if he fought the
>Barbed Devil, he would be hurt very badly in one attack, and possibly
>killed thereafter.
>
>So if that is a fair assessment, and his solution was to avoid death by
>fleeing through the teleport, without first a) telling everyone else,
>and b) trying to help them through first - then I would say he is guilty
>of a Chaotic act, acting cowardly in a way that could bring harm or
>death to others. He should at least be stripped of some powers until he
>atones...

But the others can see what he's doing--I would think they would
quickly follow him into the circle. What they can see is enough that
they don't need him to say anything.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In <vf6p41hn5mjv0487pfi434vkhb01ussp8u@4ax.com> (3/31/05 7:50 PM) Loren
Pechtel wrote:
>>So if that is a fair assessment, and his solution was to avoid death
>>by fleeing through the teleport, without first a) telling everyone
>>else, and b) trying to help them through first - then I would say he
>>is guilty of a Chaotic act, acting cowardly in a way that could bring
>>harm or death to others. He should at least be stripped of some
>>powers until he atones...
>
> But the others can see what he's doing--I would think they would
> quickly follow him into the circle. What they can see is enough that
> they don't need him to say anything.
>
Like I said, I think he should be the last one through, not the first.
He should not assume that the others will follow, and do something
different than last time, but I suppose he could be of the thought that
"These guys are idiots if they don't follow me." Still, it is better to
plan ahead, and without a plan, make sure you are there to back up the
party. Paladins are either the leader (and have reason to expect the
party to follow) or they follow the leader. The whole situation seems
chaotic, and even if the paladin could justify his decision afterwards,
he would be his own harshest critic, and would tell himself that he
should have done things differently, that he could have saved his
friends. If this happened, I would expect the player to play the
character as "punishing himself" in some way.

ROB