A couple of Questions

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

About how often should one be able to actually enhance skills
rather than just checking on them? I've gotten up to Exp:5 without being
able to enhance anything. Am I doing something wrong?
On another note, is there a way to tell if something's cursed or
not *before* picking it up and/or putting it on? I think an identify
scroll might work for that, but is there a way if an identify scroll isn't
available?
I've read the guidebook about 4 times already, but haven't seen
answers to these questions in there.

Thanks,
Terrence

Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
ICC: terrencevane
Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )
92 answers Last reply
More about couple questions
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    >
    > About how often should one be able to actually enhance skills
    > rather than just checking on them? I've gotten up to Exp:5 without being
    > able to enhance anything. Am I doing something wrong?

    Advancing a skill requires 1) skill slots available, 2) a
    minimum number of successfull uses with the class in question.

    If you've gotten to level 5 without being able to enhance
    any skill, you're using the wrong weapons. Most likely
    the weapon you're using is in a class not listed when you
    do "#enhance" and look at the list offered. It is not
    always obvious what weapons are in what class. Or maybe
    you are switching among weapons too much and not getting to
    the minimum number of hits with any one type. The rich
    assortment of weapons available in the game are partly a
    trap to get newbies to use weapons inappropriate to their
    character class.

    Simple strategy - Look through the enhance list, pick a
    type of weapon in that list (look up what types are in
    what class), use that weapon until you are offered the
    first enhancement, and only then switch to another weapon
    type.

    Simple strategy - Before using any weapon or weapon type,
    only use it if you can explain why you need to in terms
    of advancing the available skills or why this particular
    hit is worth ignoring skills.

    > On another note, is there a way to tell if something's cursed or
    > not *before* picking it up and/or putting it on? I think an identify
    > scroll might work for that, but is there a way if an identify scroll isn't
    > available?

    There are several direct or indirect ways. Pets and altars
    are the good early ways.
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    > About how often should one be able to actually enhance skills
    > rather than just checking on them? I've gotten up to Exp:5 without being
    > able to enhance anything. Am I doing something wrong?

    You have to excercise the skill successfully, and you need open skill
    slots.

    For weapons, the former comes from hitting monsters and causing them
    damage. For spells, it comes from casting spells in a certain skill
    arena successfully.

    The latter comes as you level up. You'll certainly have a few skill
    slots at Exp:5. If you're using a weapon that your class can advance
    in and hitting monsters with it frequently, you should be able to
    advance it (or soon will be). Likewise if you're frequently casting a
    spell from a school of magic that you can advance in.

    > On another note, is there a way to tell if something's cursed or
    > not *before* picking it up and/or putting it on?

    Pets are reluctant to walk on cursed items (you'll get a "Fido moves
    only reluctantly" message if they walk on it).

    And if you drop items on an altar, their Blessed/Uncursed/Cursed status
    will be identified for you (you have to pick it up first, but not put
    it on).

    You can identify B/U/C status by dipping in holy/unholy water, but that
    also changes it.

    One item that you don't want to pick up is a loadstone. If you see a
    gray stone, you can try kicking it; normally it'll go "thump" and not
    move (I think kicking boots or extraordinary strength might make it
    move, but not as far as most rocks).
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, Doug Freyburger wrote:

    > There are several direct or indirect ways. Pets and altars
    > are the good early ways.

    Pets? How would a pet be able to tell if something's cursed or not?

    Terrence
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    I've gotten cought by one of those before; it wasn't much fun. I
    picked it up and couldn't get rid of it, and it was a pretty wasteful
    burden, that's for sure.

    Terrence

    Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
    ICC: terrencevane
    Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
    ( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Where would I find out what weapons are in what classes? It
    doesn't seem to show that in the guide.

    Thanks,
    Terrence

    Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
    ICC: terrencevane
    Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
    ( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    I don't know though; I had a pet walk right over a staff, so I
    picked it up and it stuck to me. So I either interpreted the pet's
    actions wrong or something.

    Terrence

    Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
    ICC: terrencevane
    Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
    ( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    I'm playing a human tourist, armed at the outset with a bunch of
    darts. Would a dart fall under flail or morningstar, or somewhere else
    entirely?

    Thanks,
    Terrence

    Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
    ICC: terrencevane
    Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
    ( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    >
    > I've gotten cought by one of those before; it wasn't much fun. I
    > picked it up and couldn't get rid of it, and it was a pretty wasteful
    > burden, that's for sure.

    Loadstones auto-curse when you pick them up so you can't
    drop them. Any method that removes the curse and you
    will be able to drop it exactly once. Or get someone to
    steal it from you.

    Kick gray stones. Loadstones thud.
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    >
    > Where would I find out what weapons are in what classes? It
    > doesn't seem to show that in the guide.

    The spoilers have tables.

    Some common stuff -

    Long sword class has long sword and katana.

    Broadsword class has broadsword, elven broadsword
    and runesword (Stormbringer).

    Dagger class has dagger, elven dagger, orcish dagger,
    silver dagger and athame.

    Saber has silver saber and no other type. Not to be
    confused with scimitar which also has scimitar and
    no other type.

    You didn't mention what class you are playing so folks
    can't offer suggestions. Since skill slots are a
    limited resource and important weapons are in specific
    classes, it can seem like a lot of weapon classes
    exist primarily to trick you into wasting skill slots
    on them.
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    > Doug Freyburger wrote:
    >
    > > There are several direct or indirect ways. Pets and altars
    > > are the good early ways.
    >
    > Pets? How would a pet be able to tell if something's cursed or not?

    Pets know because it's in the code. So the better question is:

    Why would the DevTeam code it so pets know what is cursed?

    My answer is they needed to give early players a way to tell
    cursed items and pets were available. Therefor pets were
    given the ability to tell cursed items from uncursed or
    blessed items.

    Further point: If your pet picks up an item you know 1) it
    is not cursed, and 2) it is light enough that the pet can
    pick it up. Dogs and cats never get big enough to pick up
    extremely heavy items like plate mail.
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, Andrew Kerr wrote:
    > In Nethack, as IRL, a dart is actually a specialised type of two handed
    > sword.
    >
    A two-handed sword? That's odd; I would've considered it a
    projectile or something.

    Terrence
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, Zarel wrote:
    > Are you sure your pet actually walked on the staff? Did you get the message
    > "<pet> moves only reluctantly" or something like that?

    No, I don't think I had a message like that. Do pets not react to items
    that aren't cursed until you try to wear/wield them?

    Terrence
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    >> terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    >>
    >>> I don't know though; I had a pet walk right over a staff, so I
    >>> picked it up and it stuck to me. So I either interpreted the pet's
    >>> actions wrong or something.
    OK, I see a mistake in my phrasing here. I should have said that
    I picked it up and *wielded it*, and it stuck to me.

    Terrence
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Zarel wrote:
    > terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    >
    > > I don't know though; I had a pet walk right over a staff, so I
    > > picked it up and it stuck to me. So I either interpreted the pet's
    > > actions wrong or something.
    >
    > Are you sure your pet actually walked on the staff? Did you get the
    > message "<pet> moves only reluctantly" or something like that?

    In particular, did you see the pet on top of the item
    at the end of a move? Pets are fast enough that they
    can start a turn on one side of an item, go around it
    not over it, and end up on the other side of the time
    at the end of the turn without stepping on the item.
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    >
    > I'm playing a human tourist, armed at the outset with a bunch of
    > darts. Would a dart fall under flail or morningstar, or somewhere else
    > entirely?

    Chuckle. Dart is alone in the dart class. Some of it
    can be figured out by doing #enhance and see what it
    offers. Dart is listed.

    Tourist is one of the classes that can get to Expert
    in dagger, and that's valuable enough that you want to
    switch to throwing and wielding daggers until you
    reach Expert in them. Experts throw 3 per round.

    Tourist can also get to Expert in dart, but darts go
    away sometimes when thrown so they are a finite resource
    even if you untrap every dart trap. In my opinion,
    being able to advance to Expert in dart is a trap.

    Tourists can #twoweapon. Huge deal later in the game.
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    > About how often should one be able to actually enhance skills rather
    > than just checking on them? I've gotten up to Exp:5 without being able
    > to enhance anything. Am I doing something wrong?

    You only improve the skills you use. It takes a fair amount of
    practice to raise a skill, and some skills you just can't raise, or
    can't raise far (which ones depends on your class). Keep practicing, and
    you'll be able to enhance them sooner or later.

    > On another note, is there a way to tell if something's cursed or not
    > *before* picking it up and/or putting it on? I think an identify scroll
    > might work for that, but is there a way if an identify scroll isn't
    > available?

    There are quite a few ways. Altars can be used to check the
    BUC-status of items. Also, pets dislike cursed items, though they won't
    let that get between them and a good meal. There are other methods, but
    those are probaly the most common and useful.

    And be warned that there are a few items that you might find
    uncursed, but which will become cursed when you pick them up or put them
    on.

    --
    John Campbell
    jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, John Campbell wrote:
    > There are quite a few ways. Altars can be used to check the
    > Also, pets dislike cursed items, though they won't
    > let that get between them and a good meal.

    So would the pet avoid something that's cursed then?

    Terrence
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    "sjdevnull@yahoo.com" <sjdevnull@yahoo.com> wrote in
    news:1126638260.416564.63860@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

    > terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    >> About how often should one be able to actually enhance skills
    >> rather than just checking on them? I've gotten up to Exp:5 without
    >> being able to enhance anything. Am I doing something wrong?
    >
    > You have to excercise the skill successfully, and you need open skill
    > slots.
    >
    > For weapons, the former comes from hitting monsters and causing them
    > damage. For spells, it comes from casting spells in a certain skill
    > arena successfully.
    >
    > The latter comes as you level up. You'll certainly have a few skill
    > slots at Exp:5. If you're using a weapon that your class can advance
    > in and hitting monsters with it frequently, you should be able to
    > advance it (or soon will be). Likewise if you're frequently casting a
    > spell from a school of magic that you can advance in.

    Does reading a scroll give you experience like casting? I have been
    looking for the answer to this...

    fybar
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:02:36 -0400, terrencev@softhome.net wrote:

    > About how often should one be able to actually enhance skills
    >rather than just checking on them? I've gotten up to Exp:5 without being
    >able to enhance anything. Am I doing something wrong?


    You're not doing anything wrong. You have to "exercise" a
    skill before you're allowed to advance it. No exercise, no
    advancement is permitted. (Non riders rarely get to advance
    riding skill.)

    Exercising a skill only counts if "successful". Successfully
    casting a spell, or hitting a monster with a weapon and doing
    a certain minimum amount of damage count.

    When you've exercised a skill enought to receive "permission"
    to advance it, you'll generally get a message about it. Watch
    for it.


    > On another note, is there a way to tell if something's cursed or
    >not *before* picking it up and/or putting it on? I think an identify
    >scroll might work for that, but is there a way if an identify scroll isn't
    >available?


    1) It is possible to identify an item's buc status before
    picking it up. It is rarely, if ever, necessary.

    2) As you seem to have determined, the problem with cursed
    items is removing them once worn, wielded, etc.

    3) You also seem to have reached the reasonable conclusion
    that it's therefore best not to wear, wield, etc. cursed items
    in the first place.

    4) You now realize that the trick is then to know which items
    are cursed, before wearing, wielding, etc.

    Excellent observation and powers of reasoning.


    > I've read the guidebook about 4 times already, but haven't seen
    >answers to these questions in there.
    >
    Good for you. That shows the right attitude.


    Gentle starting hints (Complete spoilers as you get further
    along):


    It is possible to find out if an item is cursed or not without
    identifying it with a scroll.


    Almost every player starts a game with something that will do
    that.


    (That's really enough right there, if you think about it long
    enough.)



    Alternatively, what do cursing, and I suppose blessing, have to
    do with? I mean, what are they all about, really?


    Nethack is a fair game. (In some minor respects, anyway :-)
    Monsters can't remove cursed wield, worn, etc. items from
    themselves any more than you can.


    There are locations in the game that are more appropriate to
    blessing/cursing than other locations. Maybe they're more
    sensitive to blessing/cursing in some tangible way, as well.


    If that's really the case, what you need is something like
    a portable version of those locations, something more sensitive
    than your character is.


    Is there anything around that seems more sensitive to the
    environment of the mines than you are?


    Something that's almost always there at the beginning of a
    game?


    Something portable?


    Even self-portable?


    That doesn't eat poisoned food, for example.


    Your pets don't like cursed objects on the floor.


    Pets won't pick up cursed items.


    Your pets will only step on a square with a cursed item on it
    "reluctantly", *unless* there's food there for them to eat.

    Then they dash in post-haste and scarf down the food, slaves to
    their stomachs that they are. :-)


    Special locations that are appropriate and sensitive to
    blessing/cursing are altars to the gods. Have items interact
    with the altars and watch for resulting effects.


    Drop items on altars to determine buc status.
    Cursed items flash black.
    Uncursed items show no response.
    Blessed items flash gold(?).


    If you can't see if there's a flash, you won't know the buc
    status.


    If you can see if there's a flash, NetHack thoughtfully adds
    the appropriate adjective to that particular item's description.


    Signature delimiter goes here. Should be "-- " at the
    beginning of a line by itself. Many newsreaders use it to
    parse signatures automatically.


    Signature delimiters are a courtesy to your readers. (You
    do want people to read your posts, right? ;^)


    > Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
    > ICC: terrencevane
    > Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
    > ( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )


    --
    All the best,

    Jove
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    > I don't know though; I had a pet walk right over a staff, so I
    > picked it up and it stuck to me. So I either interpreted the pet's
    > actions wrong or something.
    >

    Are you sure your pet actually walked on the staff? Did you get the
    message "<pet> moves only reluctantly" or something like that?

    > Terrence
    >
    > Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
    > ICC: terrencevane
    > Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
    > ( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )
    >

    Delimit your sig with a "-- "

    --
    ____ (__)
    / \ (oo) -Zarel
    |Moo. > \/
    \____/
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    > On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, John Campbell wrote:
    >
    >> There are quite a few ways. Altars can be used to check the
    >> Also, pets dislike cursed items, though they won't
    >> let that get between them and a good meal.
    >
    >
    > So would the pet avoid something that's cursed then?
    >

    Unless there's no other way to follow you, or eat something, or do
    something else they want to do.

    --
    ____ (__)
    / \ (oo) -Zarel
    |Moo. > \/
    \____/
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Jove wrote:
    >
    > Blessed items flash gold(?).
    >

    Amber.

    Not that it really matters, since they autoidentify themselves anyway.

    --
    ____ (__)
    / \ (oo) -Zarel
    |Moo. > \/
    \____/
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    And there's the dart class, right in front of my face. For some
    reason, my Braille display wasn't showing it! So I just have to remember
    to keep a look out for it with screen review. Interestingly, a sited
    person wouldn't have seen it either; when I squinted, the screen itself
    showed me only as far as lance, just like the Braille! Talk about
    computer quirks!

    Terrence
    --
    Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
    ICC: terrencevane
    Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
    ( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    In article <Xns96D08687ED5FCfybar@216.168.3.44>, fybar <fybar27
    @googlemail.com.figureitout> says...
    > Does reading a scroll give you experience like casting? I have been
    > looking for the answer to this...
    >
    No.
  25. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    I was acknowledging the prior poster's comments on loadstones.
    And thanks, now I've got the spelling right. Will fix the sig thing; for
    some reason, my newsreader isn't including it like it used to.
    --
    Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
    ICC: terrencevane
    Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
    ( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )
  26. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    Andrew Kerr <andykerr@SPAMGUARD.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
    news:MPG.1d91457854640b95989729@news.blueyonder.co.uk:

    > In article <Xns96D08687ED5FCfybar@216.168.3.44>, fybar <fybar27
    > @googlemail.com.figureitout> says...
    >> Does reading a scroll give you experience like casting? I have been
    >> looking for the answer to this...
    >>
    > No.
    >

    But, that sounds so, final...

    fybar
  27. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Wed, 14 Sep 2005, Seraphim wrote:

    > You probably wern't looking at the 2nd screen. If it says "1 of X" where
    > X is some number then that there are more screens worth of information to
    > display.

    Nope, it just said (end), no matter how I viewed the page.

    Terrence
  28. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:03:26 -0400, terrencev@softhome.net scribed into the
    ether:

    >On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, Doug Freyburger wrote:
    >
    >> There are several direct or indirect ways. Pets and altars
    >> are the good early ways.
    >
    >Pets? How would a pet be able to tell if something's cursed or not?

    Pets do not voluntarily walk across squares with cursed items sitting on
    them.

    If they do, they do so "reluctantly", with an explicit message to that
    effect.

    It won't tell you if an item is blessed, but it will sure tell you if it is
    cursed.
  29. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    In article <Pine.LNX.4.62.0509131358360.5165@Knoppix>,
    <terrencev@softhome.net> says...
    > Pets? How would a pet be able to tell if something's cursed or not?
    >

    Animals are more attuned to the universal oneness than humans (or some
    other such hippy malarky), thus are more attuned to deities, thus to BUC
    status.
  30. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    In article <Pine.LNX.4.62.0509131514370.5165@Knoppix>,
    <terrencev@softhome.net> says...
    > I'm playing a human tourist, armed at the outset with a bunch of
    > darts. Would a dart fall under flail or morningstar, or somewhere else
    > entirely?

    In Nethack, as IRL, a dart is actually a specialised type of two handed
    sword.
  31. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    >On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, Doug Freyburger wrote:
    >> There are several direct or indirect ways. Pets and altars
    >> are the good early ways.
    >
    >Pets? How would a pet be able to tell if something's cursed or not?

    Who knows? The fact remains that living pets are reluctant to step on
    cursed things, and never pick them up.
    --
    Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
    \_\/_/ in the metal and blood in the scent and mascara on a backcloth of
    \ / lashes and scars in a flood of your tears in sackcloth and ashes
    \/ -- Sisters of Mercy, "Flood I"
  32. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    > On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, John Campbell wrote:
    >
    >> There are quite a few ways. Altars can be used to check the
    >> Also, pets dislike cursed items, though they won't
    >> let that get between them and a good meal.
    >
    > So would the pet avoid something that's cursed then?

    Usually. Not always, but their reluctance to step on cursed
    items is generally obvious.

    But if that's where they have to go to get a fresh corpse or
    other tasty snack, they're not in the least reluctant about it.

    --
    John Campbell
    jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com
  33. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:12:48 -0400, terrencev@softhome.net wrote:


    >Lodestones (was Re: A couple of Questions)

    Please include your subject in the body of the post. Some may
    want to reply to it. (It's a courtesy to your readers.)

    It's "loadstone" in Nethack, by the way.


    > I've gotten cought by one of those before; it wasn't much fun. I
    >picked it up and couldn't get rid of it, and it was a pretty wasteful
    >burden, that's for sure.

    Yep, that all fits with my experience. Just one more example
    of the DevTeam's irredeemable evil, that's my opinion.

    Did you have a question? Or just venting? ;^)

    There are tests that help determine if a given stone is a
    loadstone (note spelling).

    They're just as heavy on the ground as they are in your
    inventory.

    You just need to think of something you can do to things on the
    ground that a) don't involve picking them up and b) can tell you
    how heavy they are.

    And no, you can't name loadstones (in specific, or in general)
    unless it's in your inventory.


    A moderator should be able to include a valid signature
    separator. You can always manually type it in at the end
    of your post, if nothing else.

    Some newsreader software depends on the sig separator
    to automatically color/ignore/not include sigs in replies.


    >
    >Terrence
    >
    > Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
    > ICC: terrencevane
    > Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
    > ( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )


    --
    All the best,

    Jove
  34. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:20:52 -0400, terrencev@softhome.net wrote:

    > Where would I find out what weapons are in what classes? It
    >doesn't seem to show that in the guide.
    >

    If you want to be spoiled (and it looks like you do :-)
    almost all the spoilers you could ever want can be found here.


    <http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/>


    There are even links on the page to download complete archives
    of the spoilers available there.

    And "class" is usually used as a synonym for "role".

    So I don't know if you want to know each role's starting weapon
    types, or what weapons are in what type. :-)

    Regardless, the answers to both questions can be found after
    sufficient exploration at the site listed above. Be warned that
    working the information you want from the spoilers may not be
    much easier than winning Nethack. ;^)

    And they are called "spoilers" for a reason. They spoil that
    oh so enjoyable process of dying over and over and over again to
    learn what you want to know. :-D

    You may want to think about what you want to be spoiled on,
    and how deeply. (Some repliers will include Nethack source code
    in their posts, which has been known to summon shoggoths. So be
    careful what questions you ask and how you ask them. ;^)


    --
    All the best,

    Jove
  35. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:49:33 GMT, Andrew Kerr
    <andykerr@SPAMGUARD.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    >In article <Pine.LNX.4.62.0509131514370.5165@Knoppix>,
    ><terrencev@softhome.net> says...
    >> I'm playing a human tourist, armed at the outset with a bunch of
    >> darts. Would a dart fall under flail or morningstar, or somewhere else
    >> entirely?
    >
    >In Nethack, as IRL, a dart is actually a specialised type of two handed
    >sword.

    I'm guffawing. (I'm in the privacy of my own home. I can do
    whatever I want. :-)

    Can we get this into the rumors file?


    --
    All the best,

    Jove
  36. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Wed, 14 Sep 2005, Raisse the Thaumaturge wrote:

    > terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    >
    >> I don't have a
    >> defaults.nh file; I think it has to do with the fact that I'm playing on
    >> a Linux system.
    >
    > In that case you probably have a .nethackrc file. If you don't, you can

    Oh, so defaults.nh and nethackrc are the same thing then. I
    wasn't completely sure if they were.

    Terrence
    --
    Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
    ICC: terrencevane
    Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
    ( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )
  37. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:55:58 -0400, terrencev@softhome.net wrote:

    >>> terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I don't know though; I had a pet walk right over a staff, so I
    >>>> picked it up and it stuck to me. So I either interpreted the pet's
    >>>> actions wrong or something.
    > OK, I see a mistake in my phrasing here. I should have said that
    >I picked it up and *wielded it*, and it stuck to me.
    >
    >Terrence

    Thanks for taking care of the signature.

    Just walking over and seeing your pet on a square with an item
    does not mean that item is non-cursed.

    The square may have been out of your character's sight when
    your pet stepped on it. (Blocked line of sight or dark room.)

    If there was pet-edible food there, ol' Insatiable will go
    there with it's usual verve to eat it, no matter what cursed
    items are also there.

    You have to actually watch your pet move onto the square.
    And you have to be sure there was no corpse/egg/tripe-ration
    there. And you have to be sure you didn't space past a
    "reluctantly" message. (CTRL-p to review recent messages
    is useful here. Be sure you know how the messages are
    configured to be displayed, oldest or newest first.)

    The best way to do this is in a lit area, with each item
    you want to test by itself on a separate square. And it
    can still go wrong. Trust me. ;-)

    I can tell you that I've never actually *caught* NetHack
    cheating in this respect. (But it wouldn't surprise me either :-)

    (There's someone on NAO right now wearing cursed -4 leather
    armor. They don't have a pet with them either.)

    When it goes wrong you need to learn how to deal with worn/
    wielded cursed items. (That's an advanced lesson and will not be
    covered in this course. :-)

    And cursed items are not always bad in other ways. They're
    just guaranteed not to be better than +0. So it may not be a
    disaster, just an object lesson that you can't be too careful.

    And, as I hope you just learned, it's better to make a mistake
    with armor, where other armor can still help protect you.

    Get stuck wielding a cursed two-handed weapon and the game gets
    *far* more interesting. (To onlookers anyway. ;-) There are a
    lot more things you can't do when *both* hands are stuck to a
    cursed item.

    Oddly enough, you can still throw projectile weapons, so you're
    not completely helpless if it's a -7 quarterstaff.

    (I'm poking fun at the situation. Not at you. We've all been
    there and done that and felt just as frustrated as I'm sure you
    do now. You are not alone. The favorite role to play in NetHack
    is Foole.)

    For instance, Andrew Kerr just confessed:
    >
    >
    >Speaking of stupid, I sacced the corpse of one of my pet ochre jellies.
    >Twice. There go 16 points of intrinsic AC. And all the peaceful priests in
    >the Dungeon, Quest and VoTD have met with unfortunate Aleax-related
    >accidents.
    >
    >Also, my pet dragon decided to poly itself into a lemure by eating a
    >chameleon.


    --
    All the best,

    Jove
  38. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    > Further point: If your pet picks up an item you know 1) it
    > is not cursed, and 2) it is light enough that the pet can
    > pick it up. Dogs and cats never get big enough to pick up
    > extremely heavy items like plate mail.

    I have to contradict you on that. Your dog/cat just has to gain some
    experience and size before it is able to pick up heavy armor.

    In my latest game, I found an armor shop with plate mail on dlvl 2. I
    was letting my pet do all the killing so it was pretty big by then. I
    used my pet to steal the plate, sold it back to the shopkeeper, and
    repeated until he was out of money, and I had a plate mail + 2500
    zorkmids. This proved to be very handy when I dived to minetown and
    bought 6 levels of protection (I was still at xp 1).

    --
    Cheers,
    Wolfram
  39. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    terrencev@softhome.net wrote in
    news:Pine.LNX.4.62.0509131948170.5165@Knoppix:

    > And there's the dart class, right in front of my face. For
    > some
    > reason, my Braille display wasn't showing it! So I just have to
    > remember to keep a look out for it with screen review.
    > Interestingly, a sited person wouldn't have seen it either; when I
    > squinted, the screen itself showed me only as far as lance, just
    > like the Braille! Talk about computer quirks!

    You probably wern't looking at the 2nd screen. If it says "1 of X" where
    X is some number then that there are more screens worth of information to
    display. I don't know if it is the same on all systems but on mine the <
    and > keys are used to switch between several screends of data.
  40. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:53:21 -0400, terrencev@softhome.net wrote:

    <Some reformatting to make interjected comments easier>

    > And there's the dart class, right in front of my face.

    On the visual screen?

    >For some reason, my Braille display wasn't showing it!

    So it wasn't on the Braille display.

    >So I just have to remember to keep a look out for it
    >with screen review.

    Now "screen review" I'm not familiar with.


    >Interestingly, a sited person wouldn't have seen it either;
    >when I squinted, the screen itself showed me only as far as
    >lance, just like the Braille!

    So it wasn't on the visual display?

    I am unclear on some of the preceding points.


    >Talk about computer quirks!

    I could, and for days. But that might not be all that helpful
    at this point. ;-)


    (Maybe it isn't just NetHack that's evil. Maybe *all*
    computers are out to get us.)


    From checking the weapons spoiler at:
    <http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/weap-343.txt>


    The weapons spoiler shows over a dozen lines/items between the
    lance and the dart classes/items.


    If that's what you were reviewing that may be more than just a
    "quirk".


    Were you using a web browser to look at the spoiler? No two
    web browsers seem to display the same web page the same way.

    I have three browsers that I use for the Web. If none of
    them can display a page reasonably, I look at the source code
    for that page.


    Anyway, when asking a question like that about the darts,
    saying where you've looked is helpful. Some smart-arse would
    have sounded off saying exactly where it was. You'd have said
    it you couldn't spot it. And presumably you'd have found the
    problem without having to squint at the monitor.


    (Although I still love "part of the two-handed sword class,
    just like in real life" answer. ;-)


    Have you reviewed the section in the NetHack Guidebook on
    configuring NetHack for the blind?

    (I presume blind players are not necessarily immune to the
    powerful repulsion force of the Guidebook. ;-)

    Other posters here are interested in that aspect of NetHack.
    Some good may come from consulting together.


    And can you "see" my difference smiley faces?

    Plain :-)
    Winking with 3 dimensional nose ;^)
    Big grin :-D
    Sticking my tongue out :-Þ

    I also tend to use the smiley faces that have right parens for
    the smile to close parenthetic notes.


    They tell people who talk on the phone professionally to always
    smile, because the listener can "hear" the smile in their voice.


    I'm not a good enough writer to always indicate the smile on my
    face, so I put in on the screen.


    >Terrence

    Thanks again for fixing your sig. Now my newsreader doesn't
    include it in replies to your messages.

    --
    All the best,

    Jove
  41. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:27:42 -0400, terrencev@softhome.net wrote:

    > I was acknowledging the prior poster's comments on loadstones.
    >And thanks, now I've got the spelling right. Will fix the sig thing; for
    >some reason, my newsreader isn't including it like it used to.

    Now you just need to start quoting some context so we'll know

    a) What you're talking about and
    b) Who you're talking to.

    and we'll be all set. ;-D

    Then we can get to the *real* flamewars.

    (One of the little joys of spelling "loadstone" the way Nethack
    does is every so often someone will post "correcting" you.)

    --
    All the best,

    Jove
  42. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    > >> terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> I don't know though; I had a pet walk right over a staff, so I
    > >>> picked it up and it stuck to me. So I either interpreted the pet's
    > >>> actions wrong or something.
    > OK, I see a mistake in my phrasing here. I should have said that
    > I picked it up and *wielded it*, and it stuck to me.

    Pets are also a little less picky about where they tread if there's
    food involved... was the staff on the same square as a corpse or tripe
    ration?
  43. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote:
    > Pets are also a little less picky about where they tread if there's
    > food involved... was the staff on the same square as a corpse or tripe
    > ration?

    Nope, there wasn't any corpse or food there. It was all by
    itself.

    Terrence
    --
    Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
    ICC: terrencevane
    Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
    ( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )
  44. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:07:33 GMT, Andrew Kerr
    <andykerr@SPAMGUARD.blueyonder.co.uk> scribed into the ether:

    >In article <Pine.LNX.4.62.0509131358360.5165@Knoppix>,
    ><terrencev@softhome.net> says...
    >> Pets? How would a pet be able to tell if something's cursed or not?
    >>
    >
    >Animals are more attuned to the universal oneness than humans (or some
    >other such hippy malarky), thus are more attuned to deities, thus to BUC
    >status.

    My cats sure as hell know when an earthquake is coming, as much as an hour
    in advance.

    I have no problem with them telling cursed stuff apart.
  45. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    terrencev@softhome.net wrote:

    > I don't have a
    > defaults.nh file; I think it has to do with the fact that I'm playing on
    > a Linux system.

    In that case you probably have a .nethackrc file. If you don't, you can
    make one, or (if you're confused about the Guidebook options) ask me
    privately and I'll make it for you.

    Raisse, killed by a system shock

    --
    irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
    Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
  46. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Wed, 14 Sep 2005, Jove wrote:
    > The question is: had you checked for such <food, corpses, etc.> on the
    > square before your pet moved onto it in the first place?

    I'm pretty sure I didn't have any food on the square in question.
    Interestingly, though, I've had good success with the pet technique since
    then.

    Terrence
    --
    Yahoo: terrencevak; AIM: terrence van e; MSN: ganvira@hotmail.com;
    ICC: terrencevane
    Moderator: Sonic Theater Discussion
    ( http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/xm163 )
  47. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:04:11 GMT, Matt Frisch
    <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

    >On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:07:33 GMT, Andrew Kerr
    ><andykerr@SPAMGUARD.blueyonder.co.uk> scribed into the ether:
    >
    >>In article <Pine.LNX.4.62.0509131358360.5165@Knoppix>,
    >><terrencev@softhome.net> says...
    >>> Pets? How would a pet be able to tell if something's cursed or not?
    >>>
    >>
    >>Animals are more attuned to the universal oneness than humans (or some
    >>other such hippy malarky), thus are more attuned to deities, thus to BUC
    >>status.
    >
    >My cats sure as hell know when an earthquake is coming, as much as an hour
    >in advance.
    >
    >I have no problem with them telling cursed stuff apart.


    Not to mention that in the game pets can tell if a corpse is
    poisonous or not. Perhaps by smelling? In that case they may
    simply sniff the items from close up and can tell by scent
    whether an item is cursed or not.


    And pets in the game are smarter than their "masters." Pets
    won't attack a monster that's obviously too tough for them.
    Pets also won't attack when they're too low on hitpoints.
    Or when a monsters defensive "attack" could kill them.
    (In those respects, pets are smarter than many players. ;^)


    (Yes, pets with multiple attacks per round will occasionally
    get themselves killed by defensive responses. I said pets
    were smart, not that they could count. :-)


    Perhaps the best evidence for the intelligence of pets is
    that they didn't choose to enter the damn dungeon in the first
    place. :-D


    --
    All the best,

    Jove
  48. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:14:04 -0400, terrencev@softhome.net wrote:

    >On Wed, 14 Sep 2005, Jove wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:53:21 -0400, terrencev@softhome.net wrote:
    >>
    >> <Some reformatting to make interjected comments easier>
    >>
    >>> And there's the dart class, right in front of my face.
    >>
    >> On the visual screen?

    >OK, right in front of my face was figurative here. The intended meaning
    >was that it was right there in the list.

    And perfectly acceptable, too. I was trying (and am ;-)
    trying for specific information about the problem.

    Even if you've solved it, specifics about software, cause,
    and solution are good to have in a searchable form. Because
    problems tend to come up more than once. (Hence FAQs, etc. ;-)

    >>> For some reason, my Braille display wasn't showing it!
    >>
    >> So it wasn't on the Braille display.

    >Correct.

    >>> So I just have to remember to keep a look out for it
    >>> with screen review.
    >>
    >> Now "screen review" I'm not familiar with.
    > Screen review refers to listening to what's on the screen
    >verbally.

    "Listen out for it"? ;-)

    >
    >>> Interestingly, a sited person wouldn't have seen it either;
    >>> when I squinted, the screen itself showed me only as far as
    >>> lance, just like the Braille!
    >>
    >> So it wasn't on the visual display?

    >Exactly.

    >
    >> The weapons spoiler shows over a dozen lines/items between the
    >> lance and the dart classes/items.

    > Actually, this was in the #enhance screen.

    More useful information. I did a quick check of my current
    Nethack game's #enhance screen, but, of course, wizards don't
    have lance as an option.

    That reminded that other weapon skills would also be different
    (added or missing) so that a wizard's #enhance screen would be
    useless for understanding the problem.

    >
    >> (Although I still love "part of the two-handed sword class,
    >> just like in real life" answer. ;-)

    > Ditto; I've *never* heard of darts being considered in the same
    >class with swords.

    It was a joke. G.O.K...J.O.C...It was supposed to be funny!
    ;-D


    > > (I presume blind players are not necessarily immune to the
    >> powerful repulsion force of the Guidebook. ;-)

    > Especially since it's such a *long* document. `-)


    Hey, it's also poorly organized! (And is that a wink and a
    smile I see? ;-)


    >> Other posters here are interested in that aspect of NetHack.

    >> Some good may come from consulting together.
    >
    >> And can you "see" my difference smiley faces?
    >>
    >> Plain :-)
    >> Winking with 3 dimensional nose ;^)
    >> Big grin :-D
    >> Sticking my tongue out :-Þ

    > Sometimes; it depends if I'm using speech or braille, and/or what
    >my punctuation's set to at the time.


    I'd switch to abbreviations, e.g. bseg, except they're a bit
    close to D00D-$P34|< (That's "dude-speak". Translation supplied
    as a courtesy for the stupidity-challenged ;^)


    And I just like the look of the smilies. Of course, that means
    people with different fonts (especially non-fixed fonts) don't
    see them the same.


    As long ago as the 1950's, Albert Speer noted that "tone" was
    not always easy to determine when reading a personal
    communication, and that the reader's attitude could make a big
    difference when trying to attach import to the various parts of
    the letter. This last was all the more significant as Speer was
    in prison at the time.


    He suggested indicating the desired tone(s) of the various
    parts of the letter by using the name of a particular piece of
    classical music the reader should imagine playing in the
    background while it was read. An elegant solution, given a
    common knowledge of classical music.


    Use of smilies instead can be seen as grasping for a quick,
    cheap, easy solution. (Exactly, just as I do in Nethack. ;-)


    >> Thanks again for fixing your sig. Now my newsreader doesn't
    >> include it in replies to your messages.
    >>
    >>
    > Sure; until I can fix it automatically, I'll just type it in.
    >

    Thanks for the effort and consideration.

    I checked the headers in your post, but no direct indication of
    your newsreader was given.

    (I don't limit myself to just giving ignorant advice about
    NetHack. And my ignorance knows no bounds. ;^)

    --
    All the best,

    Jove
  49. Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

    On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:40:14 -0400, terrencev@softhome.net wrote:

    >On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 dogscoff@eudoramail.com wrote:
    >> Pets are also a little less picky about where they tread if there's
    >> food involved... was the staff on the same square as a corpse or tripe
    >> ration?
    >
    > Nope, there wasn't any corpse or food there. It was all by
    >itself.
    >

    Well, not once the pet left the square on its own, that's for
    sure. Those gluttons won't leave while there's a non-poisonous,
    non-tainted corpse on the square, or a tripe ration or egg.
    (And if hungry enough, pets will eat food rations. All tameable
    dogs, cats, and equines, anyway.)


    The question is: had you checked for such on the square before
    your pet moved onto it in the first place?


    Hence careful setup is best for using pets to identify
    non-cursed items.


    Nethack is cruel.


    --
    All the best,

    Jove
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