Spell Failure Rates for Every Class

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

My experience is that *every* role can attain enough spellcasting ability
to become more effective as a mage than as a fighter. I've done some
wizmode testing to support that.

The following fail rates are for level 30 humans with 23 Int/Wis, a robe,
all spellcasting skills maxed, and no shield or metallic armor.

A +6 or +7 helm of brilliance is not realistically obtainable in a normal
game, but it could increase Int/Wis to the maximum of 25. Archeologist
and Ranger fail rates can be improved by playing as a Gnome (+1 Int),
which has very little drawback. Priest and Ranger fail rates can be
improved by playing as an Elf (+2 Int/Wis), but that has more serious
drawbacks. Dwarves and Orcs are not worth considering.

Note that *every* role can obtain 0% fail rate in magic missile, cone of
cold, cure sickness, detect monsters, identify, charm monster, remove
curse, jumping, and haste self. I didn't bother to test force bolt, drain
life, extra healing, light, sleep, create monster, and wizard lock, but
clearly their fail rates are also 0%.


Name Level Category Fail

Archeologist
a - magic missile 2 attack 0%
b - cone of cold 4 attack 0%
c - finger of death 7 attack 37%
d - cure sickness 3 healing 0%
e - detect monsters 1 divination 0%
f - identify 3 divination 0%
g - magic mapping 5 divination 0%
h - charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
i - remove curse 3 clerical 0%
j - jumping 1 escape 0%
k - haste self 3 escape 0%
l - teleport away 6 escape 52%
m - dig 5 matter 0%
n - polymorph 6 matter 0%

Barbarian
a - magic missile 2 attack 0%
b - cone of cold 4 attack 0%
c - finger of death 7 attack 38%
d - cure sickness 3 healing 0%
e - detect monsters 1 divination 0%
f - identify 3 divination 0%
g - magic mapping 5 divination 64%
h - charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
i - remove curse 3 clerical 0%
j - jumping 1 escape 0%
k - haste self 3 escape 0%
l - teleport away 6 escape 82%
m - dig 5 matter 64%
n - polymorph 6 matter 82%

Caveman
a - magic missile 2 attack 0%
b - cone of cold 4 attack 0%
c - finger of death 7 attack 67%
d - cure sickness 3 healing 0%
e - detect monsters 1 divination 0%
f - identify 3 divination 0%
g - magic mapping 5 divination 55%
h - charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
i - remove curse 3 clerical 0%
j - jumping 1 escape 0%
k - haste self 3 escape 0%
l - teleport away 6 escape 77%
m - dig 5 matter 0%
n - polymorph 6 matter 0%

Healer
magic missile 2 attack 0%
cone of cold 4 attack 0%
finger of death 7 attack 77%
cure sickness 3 healing 0%
detect monsters 1 divination 0%
identify 3 divination 0%
magic mapping 5 divination 11%
charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
remove curse 3 clerical 0%
jumping 1 escape 0%
haste self 3 escape 0%
teleport away 6 escape 47%
dig 5 matter 11%
polymorph 6 matter 47%

Knight
a - magic missile 2 attack 0%
b - cone of cold 4 attack 0%
c - finger of death 7 attack 0%
d - cure sickness 3 healing 0%
e - detect monsters 1 divination 0%
f - identify 3 divination 0%
g - magic mapping 5 divination 35%
h - charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
i - remove curse 3 clerical 0%
j - jumping 1 escape 0%
k - teleport away 6 escape 63%
l - dig 5 matter 35%
m - polymorph 6 matter 63%

Monk
magic missile 2 attack 0%
cone of cold 4 attack 0%
finger of death 7 attack 14%
cure sickness 3 healing 0%
detect monsters 1 divination 0%
identify 3 divination 0%
magic mapping 5 divination 0%
charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
remove curse 3 clerical 0%
jumping 1 escape 0%
haste self 3 escape 0%
teleport away 6 escape 0%
dig 5 matter 0%
polymorph 6 matter 0%

Priest
c - magic missile 2 attack 0%
d - cone of cold 4 attack 0%
e - finger of death 7 attack 77%
f - cure sickness 3 healing 0%
g - detect monsters 1 divination 0%
h - identify 3 divination 0%
i - magic mapping 5 divination 0%
j - charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
a - remove curse 3 clerical 0%
k - jumping 1 escape 0%
l - haste self 3 escape 0%
m - teleport away 6 escape 47%
n - dig 5 matter 11%
o - polymorph 6 matter 47%

Rogue
a - magic missile 2 attack 0%
b - cone of cold 4 attack 0%
c - finger of death 7 attack 87%
d - cure sickness 3 healing 0%
e - detect monsters 1 divination 0%
f - identify 3 divination 0%
g - magic mapping 5 divination 0%
h - charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
i - remove curse 3 clerical 0%
j - jumping 1 escape 0%
k - haste self 3 escape 0%
l - teleport away 6 escape 0%
m - dig 5 matter 0%
n - polymorph 6 matter 0%

Ranger
a - magic missile 2 attack 0%
b - cone of cold 4 attack 0%
c - finger of death 7 attack 87%
d - cure sickness 3 healing 0%
e - detect monsters 1 divination 0%
f - identify 3 divination 0%
g - magic mapping 5 divination 0%
h - charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
i - remove curse 3 clerical 0%
j - jumping 1 escape 0%
k - haste self 3 escape 0%
l - teleport away 6 escape 18%
m - dig 5 matter 35%
n - polymorph 6 matter 63%

Samurai
a - magic missile 2 attack 0%
b - cone of cold 4 attack 0%
c - finger of death 7 attack 15%
d - cure sickness 3 healing 0%
e - detect monsters 1 divination 0%
f - identify 3 divination 0%
g - magic mapping 5 divination 47%
h - charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
i - remove curse 3 clerical 0%
j - jumping 1 escape 0%
k - haste self 3 escape 0%
l - teleport away 6 escape 71%
m - dig 5 matter 47%
n - polymorph 6 matter 71%

Tourist
a - magic missile 2 attack 0%
b - cone of cold 4 attack 0%
c - finger of death 7 attack 80%
d - cure sickness 3 healing 0%
e - detect monsters 1 divination 0%
f - identify 3 divination 0%
g - magic mapping 5 divination 0%
h - charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
i - remove curse 3 clerical 0%
j - jumping 1 escape 0%
k - haste self 3 escape 0%
l - teleport away 6 escape 0%
m - dig 5 matter 19%
n - polymorph 6 matter 52%

Valkyrie
a - magic missile 2 attack 0%
b - cone of cold 4 attack 0%
c - finger of death 7 attack 57%
d - cure sickness 3 healing 0%
e - detect monsters 1 divination 0%
f - identify 3 divination 0%
g - magic mapping 5 divination 43%
h - charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
i - remove curse 3 clerical 0%
j - jumping 1 escape 0%
k - haste self 3 escape 0%
l - teleport away 6 escape 28%
m - dig 5 matter 43%
n - polymorph 6 matter 69%

Wizard
magic missile 2 attack 0%
cone of cold 4 attack 0%
finger of death 7 attack 0%
cure sickness 3 healing 0%
detect monsters 1 divination 0%
identify 3 divination 0%
magic mapping 5 divination 0%
charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
remove curse 3 clerical 0%
jumping 1 escape 0%
haste self 3 escape 0%
teleport away 6 escape 0%
dig 5 matter 0%
polymorph 6 matter 0%


--
"Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

hmmm, this might ascertain that all classes can become effective
spellcasters. I don't really grok this game to the point where I can
decide on that. But I'd like to know how you figure that this entails
that magic is therefore more effective than melee.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

pdpi wrote:
> hmmm, this might ascertain that all classes can become effective
> spellcasters. I don't really grok this game to the point where I can
> decide on that. But I'd like to know how you figure that this entails
> that magic is therefore more effective than melee.
>

Magic Missile, Finger of Death, Cone of Cold, and of course, Charm
Monster. OK, not everybody can do Finger of Death reliably, but still.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

pdpi wrote:
>
> hmmm, this might ascertain that all classes can become effective
> spellcasters.

At level 30 certainly. I've played valks who #enhance'd
every offered spell class to max. Cone of cold works at
a longer distance than daggers even though valks never
get to the point it is centered on an aimed spot. So
cast at long distance, daggers at medium distance,
uber-artifact face to face. It takes extremely nasty
monsters to survive to get to face to face.

> But I'd like to know how you figure that this entails
> that magic is therefore more effective than melee.

Late game vs mid/early game issue. You need to do a lot
of melee and/or missile before reaching the point that
the spells have low failure rates. But which does more
damage - magic missile spell by a level 30 valk or 3
expertly thrown blessed fireproof +6 elven daggers thrown
with strength=25?

To me this is yet another argument that fully kitted
late-game characters tend to have class mean less and
less. Robe to max out spell casting has armor effects
that ripple back through the other items. Dexerity
gloves become arguably better than power even for
valks, though I'd have to look at relative damages for
rapid-fire daggers vs single-shot Mojo.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Doug Freyburger wrote:
> But which does more
> damage - magic missile spell by a level 30 valk or 3
> expertly thrown blessed fireproof +6 elven daggers thrown
> with strength=25?

The magic missile will do 16d6 + 2 damage (average 58), multiplied by the
number of bounces (two is easy, three is hard and not guaranteed) and the
number of monsters struck.

I have no idea how much damage the daggers do, but I know that if the Valk
wants to be able to keep throwing daggers, he will have to walk over and
pick them back up each time they are used. That is a lot harder than
spending 10 mana, especially if you have a way to regenerate 2.5 mana per
turn.

But if our mage Valk wants to throw daggers on occasion, he can do that
just as well as a fighter Valk can, and without sacrificing any
spellcasting ability. In fact, a mage of any role can become a
fighter/mage merely by enchanting one or two good weapons up to +7
(although obviously some roles are better fighters than others). The only
advantage a pure fighter would have _at fighting_ is that he can use power
gloves, and once STR hits 18/** that advantage is gone.

> To me this is yet another argument that fully kitted
> late-game characters tend to have class mean less and
> less.

Right. My typical ascension kit, for any role, is "Eye (not worn), robe,
SDSM, +5 HoB, =Conflict, "oLS, leather gloves, any boots, any weapon, and
all the usual non-worn items.

> Dexerity gloves become arguably better than power even for
> valks, though I'd have to look at relative damages for
> rapid-fire daggers vs single-shot Mojo.

Dex gloves are overrated. So is throwing Mojo.


--
"Ruleless 'law' will be a political weapon and control of the
judiciary will therefore be a political prize. 'Democracy' will
consist of the chaotic struggle to influence decision makers who are
not responsive to elections." -- Robert Bork

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Rast wrote:

> Note that *every* role can obtain 0% fail rate in magic missile, cone of
> cold, cure sickness, detect monsters, identify, charm monster, remove
> curse, jumping, and haste self. I didn't bother to test force bolt, drain
> life, extra healing, light, sleep, create monster, and wizard lock, but
> clearly their fail rates are also 0%.

[snip]

> Barbarian
> a - magic missile 2 attack 0%
> b - cone of cold 4 attack 0%
> c - finger of death 7 attack 38%
> d - cure sickness 3 healing 0%
> e - detect monsters 1 divination 0%
> f - identify 3 divination 0%
> g - magic mapping 5 divination 64%
> h - charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
> i - remove curse 3 clerical 0%
> j - jumping 1 escape 0%
> k - haste self 3 escape 0%
> l - teleport away 6 escape 82%
> m - dig 5 matter 64%
> n - polymorph 6 matter 82%

The Barbarian is the poorest spellcaster; yet here you see several level 3
spells for which he cannot even become Basic, and can still cast at 0%
failure. It seems, then, that any sufficiently-equipped character can cast
any spell of at most level 3 at 0%.

My current game in progress is an Archaeologist with such equipment: level
30, Int at 23 with +5 HoB, robe, gray DSM, AoR. (I dislike wishing for
artifacts; it seems unbalancing and at any rate you're not guaranteed
success.) Not all spell skills are at max, but attack is at Basic (max for
an Arc) and practically nothing can cross my path and live.

(/makes obeisance to the RNG. There is no god but the RNG, and Izchak is
the prophet of the RNG. An earlier try got even more powerful, but met
with YASD involving a wielded cockatrice corpse, a wand of digging, and a
ring of levitation that I could have sworn I was wearing.)

When playing combat wombats, I often use the robe as auxiliary equipment
rather than main armor. That doesn't help with combat spells, of course,
but things like remove curse, identify, and magic mapping are quite useful
even at very high failure rates.

--
--------------===============<[ Ray Chason ]>===============--------------
The War on Terra is not meant to be won.
Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Rast wrote:
> My experience is that *every* role can attain enough
> spellcasting ability to become more effective as a mage than
> as a fighter. I've done some wizmode testing to support that.

> The following fail rates are for level 30 humans with 23
> Int/Wis, a robe, all spellcasting skills maxed, and no shield
> or metallic armor.

> A +6 or +7 helm of brilliance is not realistically obtainable
> in a normal game, but it could increase Int/Wis to the maximum
> of 25. Archeologist and Ranger fail rates can be improved by
> playing as a Gnome (+1 Int), which has very little drawback.
> Priest and Ranger fail rates can be improved by playing as an
> Elf (+2 Int/Wis), but that has more serious drawbacks.
> Dwarves and Orcs are not worth considering.

> Note that *every* role can obtain 0% fail rate in magic
> missile, cone of cold, cure sickness, detect monsters,
> identify, charm monster, remove curse, jumping, and haste
> self. I didn't bother to test force bolt, drain life, extra
> healing, light, sleep, create monster, and wizard lock, but
> clearly their fail rates are also 0%.

> Samurai
> a - magic missile 2 attack 0%
> b - cone of cold 4 attack 0%
> c - finger of death 7 attack 15%
> d - cure sickness 3 healing 0%
> e - detect monsters 1 divination 0%
> f - identify 3 divination 0%
> g - magic mapping 5 divination 47%
> h - charm monster 3 enchantment 0%
> i - remove curse 3 clerical 0%
> j - jumping 1 escape 0%
> k - haste self 3 escape 0%
> l - teleport away 6 escape 71%
> m - dig 5 matter 47%
> n - polymorph 6 matter 71%

I've had a Samurai with finger of death down to 11%. I'd max'ed
up his intelligence to base 18 with blessed potions of gain
ability, and he was wearing:

p - a blessed rustproof +5 helm of brilliance (being worn)
A - a blessed fireproof +4 pair of speed boots (being worn)
I - a blessed fireproof +4 pair of gauntlets of dexterity (being worn)
J - a blessed +4 Hawaiian shirt (being worn)
V - a blessed +5 gray dragon scale mail (being worn)
W - a blessed fireproof +5 robe (being worn)

(An amulet of reflection handled reflection.)

Not sure what it was in there that got me the extra 4%. But he
was using spells as his main ranged attack. With a +7 Excalibur
and a +6 silver saber two weaponed for melee, expert in both
long sword and two weapon, there wasn't much he couldn't handle
(except his own carelessness, of course).

The main drawback, I think, compared to some other roles, is
that your magic power rejuvinates really slowly.

--
James Kanze GABI Software
Conseils en informatique orientée objet/
Beratung in objektorientierter Datenverarbeitung
9 place Sémard, 78210 St.-Cyr-l'École, France, +33 (0)1 30 23 00 34

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

kanze wrote:
> Rast wrote:
> > My experience is that *every* role can attain enough
> > spellcasting ability to become more effective as a mage than
> > as a fighter. I've done some wizmode testing to support that.

> > Samurai
> > c - finger of death 7 attack 15%

> I've had a Samurai with finger of death down to 11%. I'd max'ed
> up his intelligence to base 18 with blessed potions of gain
> ability, and he was wearing:
>
> p - a blessed rustproof +5 helm of brilliance (being worn)
> A - a blessed fireproof +4 pair of speed boots (being worn)
> I - a blessed fireproof +4 pair of gauntlets of dexterity (being worn)
> J - a blessed +4 Hawaiian shirt (being worn)
> V - a blessed +5 gray dragon scale mail (being worn)
> W - a blessed fireproof +5 robe (being worn)

Perhaps this was in , and the dex gloves gave a bonus?

I rechecked in wizard mode, and got 15% again.

> The main drawback, I think, compared to some other roles, is
> that your magic power rejuvinates really slowly.

Power regen isn't based on class (except that wizards without the Eye
regenerate faster than non-wizards without the Eye).

> --
^


--
"Ruleless 'law' will be a political weapon and control of the
judiciary will therefore be a political prize. 'Democracy' will
consist of the chaotic struggle to influence decision makers who are
not responsive to elections." -- Robert Bork

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Rast wrote:
> kanze wrote:
> > Rast wrote:
> > > My experience is that *every* role can attain enough
> > > spellcasting ability to become more effective as a mage than
> > > as a fighter. I've done some wizmode testing to support that.

> > > Samurai
> > > c - finger of death 7 attack 15%

> > I've had a Samurai with finger of death down to 11%. I'd max'ed
> > up his intelligence to base 18 with blessed potions of gain
> > ability, and he was wearing:

> > p - a blessed rustproof +5 helm of brilliance (being worn)
> > A - a blessed fireproof +4 pair of speed boots (being worn)
> > I - a blessed fireproof +4 pair of gauntlets of dexterity (being worn)
> > J - a blessed +4 Hawaiian shirt (being worn)
> > V - a blessed +5 gray dragon scale mail (being worn)
> > W - a blessed fireproof +5 robe (being worn)

> Perhaps this was in , and the dex gloves gave a bonus?

It was vanilla Nethack, but I don't see anything else which
would make a difference. (I was human; my native intelligence
maxed out at 18, I think. I'm not sure, but I this I was male,
too. But I don't think that that makes a difference.)

> I rechecked in wizard mode, and got 15% again.

> > The main drawback, I think, compared to some other roles, is
> > that your magic power rejuvinates really slowly.

> Power regen isn't based on class (except that wizards without
> the Eye regenerate faster than non-wizards without the Eye).

Well, it seemed like it took forever to regenerate. Maybe the
problem was that I didn't have much power to start with, so as
soon as I'd cast the spell a couple of times, I needed to wait
for regeneration.

--
James Kanze GABI Software mailto:james.kanze@free.fr
Conseils en informatique orientée objet/
Beratung in objektorientierter Datenverarbeitung
9 place Sémard, 78210 St.-Cyr-l'École, France, +33 (0)1 30 23 00 34