Why can't rogues steal?

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As has been discussed, playing a rogue is a "running" exercise. Would it
not be appropriate for the rogue character to have the ability to steal?
Run up, get hit, steal something, get hit, run away.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Gary Olson wrote:
> As has been discussed, playing a rogue is a "running" exercise. Would it
> not be appropriate for the rogue character to have the ability to steal?

Is a rogue necessarily a thief or a robber? I don't think so.

Janis

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> Gary Olson wrote:
>
>> As has been discussed, playing a rogue is a "running" exercise. Would
>> it not be appropriate for the rogue character to have the ability to
>> steal?
>
> Is a rogue necessarily a thief or a robber? I don't think so.

Though in Nethack it seems to be so...

"Unexpectedly, you find yourself back in Ransmannsby, where you trained to
be a thief." [quest.txt]

Janis

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Gary Olson wrote:
> As has been discussed, playing a rogue is a "running" exercise. Would it
> not be appropriate for the rogue character to have the ability to steal?
> Run up, get hit, steal something, get hit, run away.

I've been writing a patch to improve Rogues on and off for a while.
Stealing is fairly easy. Much of the code already exists (for use if
the player is polyorphed into a nymph or succubus), but if it were to
become more common, it should probably be linked into the skill system.

My plan is to link this ability to my partial-xp patch, so that if you
successfully rob a creature you get a fraction of their XP (subtracted
from what you get if you subsequently kill it).

I've also thought of making lock picking a skill and drastically
reducing the number of skeleton keys in the game, so that rogues have
an edge in this area, and other classes are reduced to less subtle
means of opening doors or chests.

I'd really like to make someway to allow rogues to practically "sneak"
around the dungeon without being seen, but I'm not sure about a good
way to implement this.

It would be very nice if the rogue quest involved stealing an artifact
_without_ killing anyone.

Malcolm

 

[bard]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> Is a rogue necessarily a thief or a robber? I don't think so.

And yet a thief or robber would certainly be classified as a "rogue."
In the same manner that a samurai can become an expert at #twoweapon
but doesn't have to waste her skills becoming an expert if she chooses
an alternative style of play, I don't think it's an unreasonable
stretch that rogues potentially be experts at #steal-ing, were such a
command implimented.


Your humble and obedient Renaissance Man,

Bard

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

malcolm.ryan@gmail.com wrote:
> Gary Olson wrote:
>
>>As has been discussed, playing a rogue is a "running" exercise. Would it
>>not be appropriate for the rogue character to have the ability to steal?
>> Run up, get hit, steal something, get hit, run away.
>
> I've been writing a patch to improve Rogues on and off for a while.
> Stealing is fairly easy. Much of the code already exists (for use if
> the player is polyorphed into a nymph or succubus), but if it were to
> become more common, it should probably be linked into the skill system.

> I've also thought of making lock picking a skill and drastically
> reducing the number of skeleton keys in the game, so that rogues have
> an edge in this area, and other classes are reduced to less subtle
> means of opening doors or chests.
>
> I'd really like to make someway to allow rogues to practically "sneak"
> around the dungeon without being seen, but I'm not sure about a good
> way to implement this.

So, much like the spellcasting system, all characters would have to use
skill slots on stealing, lock picking, stealth, (jumping?,) and back
stabbing? Fighter types get no skill slots, spellcasters and priests get
basic, healers and archeologists (and monks?) skilled, and rouges
Expert? And if one's stealth skill is high enough, not carrying
Sunsword or lit light source, and the player is wearing elven boots,
cloak, helm, non-metallic non-plate armor and stays in the square next
to any wall (or boulder?) the rouge can move about as if invisible?
#hide? #sneak? #stab?
(Although I do have some vague idea dragon scale mail should be
fooproofed to enable maximum stealth -- all them scales rubbing together
should make a noise)
>
> It would be very nice if the rogue quest involved stealing an artifact
> _without_ killing anyone.
>
> Malcolm
>
Yes! Make the quest nemesis a 180 hit point, magic resistant, monster
aggravating, regenerating, slow, two-weaponing killing machine. Steal
the quest artifact(s), run across the brightly lit room, open the door
to the "cage", let the caged [insert big monster(s)] kill the quest
nemesis, avoid the monster(s), pick up other necessary item(s).

Oh, maybe I should YANI this post.

 

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Gary Olson <garyolson@pobox.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>malcolm.ryan@gmail.com wrote:
>> It would be very nice if the rogue quest involved stealing an artifact
>> _without_ killing anyone.
>Yes! Make the quest nemesis a 180 hit point, magic resistant, monster
>aggravating, regenerating, slow, two-weaponing killing machine.
[further nifty cleverness snipped]

I don't think I like the special-casing required to make this viable
without removing the WANTSARTI flag from the nemesis.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\_\/_/ http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/dungeonbash/
\ / "tempted white eyes blinded by the night hollow like the towers from the
\/ inside laura's a machine she's burning insane" fields of the nephilim